[conite]

The internals justify the price. Unlike the other counterpart, you'll always find reason to cover. But as a consumer, I don't really care about how many devices they're making, or how much money they spend for marketing it, or licensing it. It's too overpriced for buggy thing.

Your statement doesn't speak to the price of the device, but to the existence of a market willing to pay the required premium for a quality keyboard device.

[Chuck Finley69]

The internals justify the price. Unlike the other counterpart, you'll always find reason to cover. But as a consumer, I don't really care about how many devices they're making, or how much money they spend for marketing it, or licensing it. It's too overpriced for buggy thing.

Just because people can't afford to pay for something doesn't mean it's overpriced. That's like saying exotic cars or luxury items are overpriced when the level of development, construction and support can't be spread over large volume.

Are Rolex watches overpriced?

[chain13]

Your statement doesn't speak to the price of the device, but to the existence of a market willing to pay the required premium for a quality keyboard device.

It does. Other than just the pkb, Fxtech put some strong internals like sd8xx, amoled screen, even imx sensors.

Just because people can't afford to pay for something doesn't mean it's overpriced. That's like saying exotic cars or luxury items are overpriced when the level of development, construction and support can't be spread over large volume.

Are Rolex watches overpriced?

Automotive again? It's just a phone. The internals it uses are the same thing others uses, but it cost more than it should.

[conite]

It does. Other than just the pkb, Fxtech put some strong internals like sd8xx, amoled screen, even imx sensors.

Argh. They have very little overhead. We went over this.

BBMo licenced the brand in order to expand distribution channels around the world and to engage businesses. They weren't interested in selling devices out of a garage.

These little kickstarters you constantly allude to will never sell more than 5000 devices each. That's not a business TCL wanted either.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The internals justify the price. Unlike the other counterpart, you'll always find reason to cover. But as a consumer, I don't really care about how many devices they're making, or how much money they spend for marketing it, or licensing it. It's too overpriced for buggy thing.

I get bottom line you want a good device at a good price.....

What you don't seem to understand is the BlackBerry can't provide that. Licensing of the name is a cost. Development of a secured version of Android has a cost. Development of the whole suite of Apps has a cost. Administration of this partnership has a cost. Continues development and support for montly patches has a cost. That is on top of the cost that the building, distributor and warranty offer provides.

Clearly BBMo didn't charge enough for their phones.... nor did BlackBerry charge enough for licensing. Both assumed million of units would be moved each year by this point. Now if doing some adjustments (fewer apps) and charging more per units is viable... maybe there will be another KEY device from someone.

But most likely we reached a point were it's just not a viable business for BlackBerry anymore.

Let's see if Plant Computers, Unihertz or Fxtec is around two year from now... before saying it's possible to have a business on kickstarter levels.

[Chuck Finley69]

It does. Other than just the pkb, Fxtech put some strong internals like sd8xx, amoled screen, even imx sensors.


Automotive again? It's just a phone. The internals it uses are the same thing others uses, but it cost more than it should.

What other device uses BBAndroid software or the custom built PKB hardware portion that's not off the shelf?

You can't expect Titan prices on BlackBerry hardware internally or externally.

Besides a Rolex is a watch and not a car... and for that matter, does it matter, car, watch, phone? All manufacturers have fixed costs that have to be spread over units produced.

People just don't want PKB at even cheaper prices. The amount of people that bought a Titan is an effing joke so it's obvious that Key devices weren't overpriced and even less people want a Titan cheap.

[chain13]

What you don't seem to understand is the BlackBerry can't provide that. Licensing of the name is a cost. Development of a secured version of Android has a cost. Development of the whole suite of Apps has a cost. Administration of this partnership has a cost. Continues development and support for montly patches has a cost. That is on top of the cost that the building, distributor and warranty offer provides.

Clearly BBMo didn't charge enough for their phones.... nor did BlackBerry charge enough for licensing. Both assumed million of units would be moved each year by this point. Now if doing some adjustments (fewer apps) and charging more per units is viable... maybe there will be another KEY device from someone.

Yeah true. But why should I know all of that, why should I care. The complete product is just mediocre device at best, and sold for 650$ with only one uniqueness, a keyboard with faulty spacebar.

What other device uses BBAndroid software or the custom built PKB hardware portion that's not off the shelf?

You can't expect Titan prices on BlackBerry hardware internally or externally.

Besides a Rolex is a watch and not a car... and for that matter, does it matter, car, watch, phone? All manufacturers have fixed costs that have to be spread over units produced.

People just don't want PKB at even cheaper prices. The amount of people that bought a Titan is an effing joke so it's obvious that Key devices weren't overpriced and even less people want a Titan cheap.

Samsung also use custom android software with one ui and knox. So do other oems (miui, flyos etc). My point is every oems do their own development and still come with reasonable pricing. Even if titan sold less number than key2, their pricing is more reasonable (for me).

[conite]

Yeah true. But why should I know all of that, why should I care. The complete product is just mediocre device at best, and sold for 650$ with only one uniqueness, a keyboard with faulty spacebar.



Samsung also use custom android software with one ui and knox. So do other oems (miui, flyos etc). My point is every oems do their own development and still come with reasonable pricing. Even if titan sold less number than key2, their pricing is more reasonable (for me).

Yes, and Samsung spread those development costs over the 300 million smartphones they sold last year alone.

On the other side of the spectrum, BBMo had no interest in the sub-10,000 unit market.

Seems like you have an axe to grind rather than wanting to have a sober business discussion.

[joeldf]

Yeah true. But why should I know all of that, why should I care. The complete product is just mediocre device at best, and sold for 650$ with only one uniqueness, a keyboard with faulty spacebar.



Samsung also use custom android software with one ui and knox. So do other oems (miui, flyos etc). My point is every oems do their own development and still come with reasonable pricing. Even if titan sold less number than key2, their pricing is more reasonable (for me).

Phones are only part of the totality that is Samsung. They can afford to spread the cost and buy in much larger bulk. Not even a contest.

[chain13]

Yes, and Samsung spread those development costs over the 300 million smartphones they sold last year alone.

On the other side of the spectrum, BBMo had no interest in the sub-10,000 unit market.

Seems like you have an axe to grind rather than wanting to have a sober business discussion.

Phones are only part of the totality that is Samsung. They can afford to spread the cost and buy in much larger bulk. Not even a contest.

From the beginning I just talk about overpriced or not as a consumer views. I don't know that some people here are busy being business analyst about the phone's brand they just bought.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Phones are only part of the totality that is Samsung. They can afford to spread the cost and buy in much larger bulk. Not even a contest.

Plus the fact that Samsung makes most the components in the phones.. other than processors used in some markets.

[conite]

From the beginning I just talk about overpriced or not as a consumer views. I don't know that some people here are busy being business analyst about the phone's brand they just bought.

Yes, but the blowback was due to your strict definition of the word "overpriced".

Is a Rolex overpriced? Ask the people who own one.

Is a KEY² overpriced? Ask the people who own one. Look at the competitive keyboard offerings in the non-kickstarter market. Look at the necessary cost structure of an international company required to offer that kind of product.

[chain13]

Yes, but the blowback was due to your strict definition of the word "overpriced".

Is a Rolex overpriced? Ask the people who own one.

Is a KEY² overpriced? Ask the people who own one. Look at the competitive keyboard offerings in the non-kickstarter market. Look at the necessary cost structure of an international company required to offer that kind of product.

Lol why rolex? Blackberry isn't any kind of luxury phone. People can do their own research, and it's their right to choose or say. As a consumer, I personaly think it's overpriced. Just by having different input method doesn't make it worth to costs almost double than the rest of competitions.

[conite]

Lol why rolex? Blackberry isn't any kind of luxury phone. People can do their own research, and it's their right to choose or say. As a consumer, I personaly think it's overpriced. Just by having different input method doesn't make it worth to costs almost double than the rest of competitions.

The Rolex is an example of a smaller-run product, from a company that has a very different cost structure than the mainstream.

$650 and $400 are the prices required to deliver the product that BBMo envisioned. It's as simple as that.

If there are insufficient customers for said product, then so be it. But it doesn't mean the devices were overpriced, it only means the market cannot sustain a product that REQUIRES that level of pricing to remain viable.

[chain13]

The Rolex is an example of a smaller-run product, from a company that has a very different cost structure than the mainstream.

$650 and $400 are the prices required to deliver the product that BBMo envisioned. It's as simple as that.

If there are insufficient customers for said product, then so be it. But it doesn't mean the devices were overpriced, it only means the market cannot sustain a product that REQUIRES that level of pricing to remain viable.

Fxtech and unihertz also a small-run kickstarter company, they're selling phone, they are more compatible to be an example.
Also, that specific product you said, in the end, are being sold into the same consumer market like others (the not specific product). And in that market, it's overpriced.

[Chuck Finley69]

Fxtech and unihertz also a small-run kickstarter company, they're selling phone, they are more compatible to be an example.
Also, that specific product you said, in the end, are being sold into the same consumer market like others (the not specific product). And in that market, it's overpriced.

So if price is the problem and Titan is priced correctly why has it sold less than 10% of the Key2 estimated 100K sales and less than 1% of the KEYone estimated 1M sales?

Posted via CB10

[elfabio80]

So if price is the problem and Titan is priced correctly why has it sold less than 10% of the Key2 estimated 100K sales and less than 1% of the KEYone estimated 1M sales?

Posted via CB10

Well they do not have the advantage to be known and advertised same as BB.... Me I heard about Titan only through CB ... This means already something. In a world where advertisment is a must, do not appear in public is already a great disadvantage....

[conite]

Well they do not have the advantage to be known and advertised same as BB.... Me I heard about Titan only through CB ... This means already something. In a world where advertisment is a must, do not appear in public is already a great disadvantage....

How many TCL ads did you see for the KEY²?

[chain13]

So if price is the problem and Titan is priced correctly why has it sold less than 10% of the Key2 estimated 100K sales and less than 1% of the KEYone estimated 1M sales?

Posted via CB10

Poor marketing, brand name value, quality of product etc etc. I clearly stated that even if titan sold less number than key, they still price it correctly (my opinion). See my post #107.

[elfabio80]

How many TCL ads did you see for the KEY²?

I saw them at Frankfurt and Munich airport. It was a transit area where millions of people pass by. I saw them for Keyone in Istanbul at Vodafone shops. They had a separate station. I do not remember at the moment other.

I did not see any for the Titan. Strange, no?

[Chuck Finley69]

Poor marketing, brand name value, quality of product etc etc. I clearly stated that even if titan sold less number than key, they still price it correctly (my opinion). See my post #107.

There wasn't any real advertising for any BBMo hardware as there wasn't any real budget. Titan is selling to same BBMo crowd that bought at least one Key device. Price wasn't the problem for any of them. It's a combination of poor or no brand reputation and PKB that 99.9% of the population has moved on from.......

Posted via CB10

[chain13]

There wasn't any real advertising for any BBMo hardware as there wasn't any real budget. Titan is selling to same BBMo crowd that bought at least one Key device. Price wasn't the problem for any of them. It's a combination of poor or no brand reputation and PKB that 99.9% of the population has moved on from.......

Posted via CB10

If you said no real advertisement, then key should be even lesser than 399$. Every products in the market, usually, are sold with the marketing costs included in the pricetag (even if it just 0.01$ per device).

[conite]

If you said no real advertisement, then key should be even lesser than 399$. Every products in the market, usually, are sold with the marketing costs included in the pricetag (even if it just 0.01$ per device).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhe...29?wprov=sfla1

Try this at home. Take a huge number, and divide it by a small number.

[Chuck Finley69]

If you said no real advertisement, then key should be even lesser than 399$. Every products in the market, usually, are sold with the marketing costs included in the pricetag (even if it just 0.01$ per device).

Advertising costs have to be included. There's no special advertising budget that doesn't go into a device price. Advertising would have driven the price up even more but it would have been a waste of money.

[Chuck Finley69]

I saw them at Frankfurt and Munich airport. It was a transit area where millions of people pass by. I saw them for Keyone in Istanbul at Vodafone shops. They had a separate station. I do not remember at the moment other.

I did not see any for the Titan. Strange, no?

Would it make a difference? How much of a budget could Umihertz have? Not even the bigger OEMs have enough of a budget to waste.... If you're not Apple, Google, Microsoft or Samsung, you don't have the volume and supporting infrastructure to justify the expense.

Most ad budgets for all the others gets spent on shelf placement in any possible carrier or retailer location I'm hopes that people will hopefully pickup