[bb10adopter111]

So honestly...no one here knows the price delta between a 660 and an 835 SoC? Let's stick to the question, not why you don't think it's needed.

(And just for the record...the 835 is still 'current' for many flagships out there, the 845 being the current top of the line)

I certainly don't. But I doubt that price is the reason. I would bet that the 660 chip has many significant improvements over the 835. I know that the DAC is more advanced, and I bet the mobile data bandwidth is greater as well. (Correction: the 835 is faster per the info I found.)

https://versus.com/en/qualcomm-snapd...snapdragon-835

[anon(10268214)]

OK so putting an 835 in the Key2 might have cost what...an extra $20 max?

That sounds like a missed opportunity to me. I don't see what's so great about the 660 other than creating a (false) perception we are being overcharged for a mid-range SoC when the price delta is that minimal to begin with.

[conite]

OK so putting an 835 in the Key2 might have cost what...an extra $20 max?

That sounds like a missed opportunity to me. I don't see what's so great about the 660 other than creating a (false) perception we are being overcharged for a mid-range SoC when the price delta is that minimal to begin with.

One is a current product, and the other one is a former product that may not be available in the degree of certainty that is required for an order like this.

I would assume that most of the leftover 835 stock would be used in supplemental runs of devices that already Incorporate it.

[the_boon]

OK so putting an 835 in the Key2 might have cost what...an extra $20 max?

That sounds like a missed opportunity to me. I don't see what's so great about the 660 other than creating a (false) perception we are being overcharged for a mid-range SoC when the price delta is that minimal to begin with.

Battery life?

[anon(10268214)]

One is a current product, and the other one is a former product that may not be available in the degree of certainty that is required for an order like this.

I would assume that most of the leftover 835 stock would be used in supplemental runs of devices that already Incorporate it.

For a small order for a niche brand when Qualcomm is cranking out millions of these? I highly doubt it's a stock or even a cost issue. Probably marketing and perception more than anything. The upgrade to an 835 or even 845, for somewhere in the $20-30 range, obviously isn't seen as competitive enough by whatever pea-brained metric BBMo is using.

Qualcomm is trying to create a niche for their old silicon by sticking in a lower end gpu and marketing it as battery sipping, mid-range tech. Which by the way is false. The 835 got me through a day no problem with 2700mah battery on my Pixel 2. I don't see any benefit to TCL falling into Qualcomm's trap, especially at the $550-650 price point.

Don't get me wrong...660 runs OK, for the most part. But Key2 would be flying on an 835/845 and if the cost delta is really that low, I have to think perhaps the real issue here is the fear factor of BBMo going head to head with flagships. All the sudden all BlackBerry's quirks would now be under the microscope and judged apples to apples with the big boys. Now wouldn't that be something. Lol.

[conite]

For a small order for a niche brand when Qualcomm is cranking out millions of these? I highly doubt it's a stock or even a cost issue. Probably marketing and perception more than anything. The upgrade to an 835 or even 845, for somewhere in the $20-30 range, obviously isn't seen as competitive enough by whatever pea-brained metric BBMo is using.

Qualcomm is trying to create a niche for their old silicon by sticking in a lower end gpu and marketing it as battery sipping, mid-range tech. Which by the way is false. The 835 got me through a day no problem with 2700mah battery on my Pixel 2. I don't see any benefit to TCL falling into Qualcomm's trap, especially at the $550-650 price point.

Don't get me wrong...660 runs OK, for the most part. But Key2 would be flying on an 835/845 and if the cost delta is really that low, I have to think perhaps the real issue here is the fear factor of BBMo going head to head with flagships. All the sudden all BlackBerry's quirks would now be under the microscope and judged apples to apples with the big boys. Now wouldn't that be something. Lol.

Unless you're using the GPU, there is only a 4% difference between a 660 and a 835.

As far as supply is concerned, don't forget the KEY² will be in production for another 8 months or so - at which point 835 would be 2 years old. The 660 is currently the flagship 600 series offering that is actually available.

Even though the 835 is 10nm and 660 is 14nm, the 835's cores would still suck more juice.

[anon(10268214)]

Unless you're using the GPU, there is only a 4% difference between a 660 and a 835.

As far as supply is concerned, don't forget the KEY² will be in production for another 8 months or so - at which point 835 would be 2 years old. The 660 is currently the flagship 600 series offering that is actually available.

The 835 is not two years old. Lots of new phones still running it. And everyone uses the GPU, unless the screen is off. So much for those two reasons.

Again, I think at this price range BBMo needs to bite the bullet. Assuming the pricing info posted earlier is reasonably accurate (and no one seems to be disputing it BTW) Key2 could easily be running either an 835 or 845 and still be at its current price point, give or take a maximum of $20-30. I can't see how that would dissuade the vast majority of potential Key2 customers from buying one.

[mralgi]

The Snapdragon 835 was announced on 17 November 2016, I believe.

[ron_jeremy]

...will easily handle any task I've ever needed a phone for at work, and the camera issue just isn't relevant for a work-oriented phone for the vast majority of users.

What "work" is this you speak of, specifically, so we can all change jobs to match yours? That way we can enjoy the TCL devices as much as you do.

[conite]

The 835 is not two years old. Lots of new phones still running it. And everyone uses the GPU, unless the screen is off. So much for those two reasons.

Again, I think at this price range BBMo needs to bite the bullet. Assuming the pricing info posted earlier is reasonably accurate (and no one seems to be disputing it BTW) Key2 could easily be running either an 835 or 845 and still be at its current price point, give or take a maximum of $20-30. I can't see how that would dissuade the vast majority of potential Key2 customers from buying one.

If I had $30 bucks extra to spend, I'd probably put it towards licencing better camera software, or improving the speakers, or adding an IP rating. Honestly, "upgrading" from the 660 would be fairly far down my list.

[mralgi]

What "work" is this you speak of, specifically, so we can all change jobs to match yours? That way we can enjoy the TCL devices as much as you do.

Pretty sure he owns a cyber consulting firm - or something like that.

[ron_jeremy]

Pretty sure he owns a cyber consulting firm - or something like that.

I don't care one bit what he does for a living -- I was only making a point.

[ron_jeremy]

If I had $30 bucks extra to spend, I'd probably put it towards licencing better camera software, or improving the speakers, or adding an IP rating. Honestly, "upgrading" from the 660 would be fairly far down my list.

That's probably the most objective piece I've ever seen you post, and I couldn't agree more. Well, now you've gone & surprised me.

[mralgi]

I don't care one bit what he does for a living -- I was only making a point.

Cool story!

[krazyatom]

The Snapdragon 835 was announced on 17 November 2016, I believe.

Keyone had so much potential if it had snapdragon 835. Oh well... now key2 finally closed the gap using snapdragon 660 after a year later.

[anon(10268214)]

If I had $30 bucks extra to spend, I'd probably put it towards licencing better camera software, or improving the speakers, or adding an IP rating. Honestly, "upgrading" from the 660 would be fairly far down my list.

That's because you don't consider the perception of the product in the market. The Key2 doesn't exist in a vacuum. Many people think $650 is to much to ask when it's being branded as a mid-range device. If that's easily fixed for $20, that's a no-brainer. Maybe they will figure that out in time for the Key3. We can hope.

And by the way, BBMo's camera software (especially)...and other features like speakers, IP rating could all stand to be improved across the board at the CURRENT price point / SoC offering. The market has already made that judgement, loud and clear.

[conite]

And by the way, BBMo's camera software (especially), speakers, IP rating all need to be improved across the board at the CURRENT price point / SoC offering. The market has already made that judgement, loud and clear.

That's well and good, but it's also a fantasy. BBMo's cost structure makes that impossible.

Almost every review I've ever seen says - great performance, great keyboard, mediocre camera for the price. I wouldn't be going after the SoC, that's all.

[anon(10268214)]

That's well and good, but it's also a fantasy. BBMo's cost structure makes that impossible.

$20? Lol conite.

[conite]

$20? Lol conite.

For the camera, speakers, and IP rating?

Read your post and my response again.

[anon(10268214)]

For the camera, speakers, and IP rating?

No, for an 835/845. Why do you keep deflecting?

[conite]

No, for an 835/845. Why do you keep deflecting?

You said they need to improve the camera, speakers, and IP rating at the current price point. I responded that that was impossible.

"And by the way, BBMo's camera software (especially), speakers, IP rating all need to be improved across the board at the CURRENT price point / SoC offering."

[anon(10268214)]

You said they need to improve the camera, speakers, and IP rating at the current price point. I responded that that was impossible.

It's not impossible, they just haven't done it. No one thinks they can't (or shouldn't be) doing any of those things at the current price point.

I'm talking about an extra $20 for the SoC. The other items you mentioned are already sub-par for products in this price range and need to be improved, period. If that's a fantasy than I suppose it's also a fantasy that TCL can bring a competitive product to market, and will keep using the PKB as a lost leader...

[conite]

It's not impossible, they just haven't done it. No one thinks they can't do any of those things at the current price point.

"No one" ? Well, I for one believe it absolutely impossible if they wish to maintain a viable margin. You don't make your only device a loss-leader.

[ron_jeremy]

That's because you don't consider the perception of the product in the market. The Key2 doesn't exist in a vacuum. Many people think $650 is to much to ask when it's being branded as a mid-range device. If that's easily fixed for $20, that's a no-brainer. Maybe they will figure that out in time for the Key3. We can hope.

And by the way, BBMo's camera software (especially)...and other features like speakers, IP rating could all stand to be improved across the board at the CURRENT price point / SoC offering. The market has already made that judgement, loud and clear.

I totally agree with you for the most part in that the camera needed to be much better on a $650 device. Last year when I went to buy a K1, I snapped a few pics inside the store & decided to pass on the device. I can't speak for the speakers but many here have already done that.

However, I would agree with @conite in that if I had a choice I'd take a much better camera over an 835 every day of the week.

[anon(10268214)]

"No one" ? Well, I for one believe it absolutely impossible if they wish to maintain a viable margin. You don't make your only device a loss-leader.

That's a convenient defence for mediocrity, but I don't buy it.

And I certainly expect camera updates for the Key2 at the price I paid. I hope I will not be disappointed.