[Troy Tiscareno]

Windows Phone? Are they still using them? They better upgrade then as Win Phone 8 is dead and the end of 10 is nearing (later this year)...

No, the NYPD WinPhones have all been replaced, but they were very salty that the person who made the decision was a huge WinPhone fan and pushed the buying decision through despite the obvious trends and state of WinPhone. MS semi-officially ended support 6 months after their deployment, and app support rapidly started to dry up, forcing NYPD to accelerate their replacement and have to retrain everyone a year after their WinPhone training. It was a huge monetary loss.

[tnewton3]

Keep waiting...no PKB no matter how premium with the latest specs will ever beat Apple or Samsung...

I think Samsung will end up purchasing/leasing the rights to the BlackBerry keyboard and they will have a "KEY" version at some point.

A thought I've had ever since BlackBerry went full Android and Chen started running the company that owns those rights.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

1. Limited or nil international servicing | repair
2. Reasonably new product | OEM in the market with minimal sales = risk of future upgrades / service
3. Short term parts availability.

Posted via CB10

Good question, how did they weigh the cost/benefit analysis versus the company that's famous for "We can't fix it, buy a new one "

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I agree with this people love the PKB design! They left because of apps and now there not sure of Blackberrys because the last thing they remember is operating systems not being capable or up to date!

...that's because they left too early as the main course hadn't been set out yet....all they got was the Hors d'oeuvres.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

The KEYone, 2, LE are not a Flagship phones....I'm sure the K3 will not be one either...

A company that needs to mass purchase a flagship obviously is feeling inadequate about the service or products it provides and is compensating. You know, if you are out in the middle of the water and need a flagship.....maybe you are drowning? (Personal use...MIGHT be a different matter...mostly for the i'll only and constantly be needing the best camera thought exercise....even if it doesn't become a gym routine.)

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Yes the PKB is a thing of the past.....said the sketchy Apple/Samsung oriented salesman down at the local Best Buy some years ago. But those nasty Laptops and the dreadful boat-anchor Desktops, we kept trying to EOL them, but they wouldn't die. Hey they almost convinced everyone....they even somehow convinced IBM to abandon them, and sell them off to Lenovo.

[Gajja]

It's sure did I had a priv b4 my keyone and the truth is I hated that keyboard to small for me so I never pulled it out! And mabe I had a priv with a defect but I had to charge that phone as much as Iphone users lol

Sometimes I pull the keyboard out just to keep the full screen mode and stop the VKB from popping up when I don't need it to. There are quite a few examples where a VKB can pop up unintentionally when using a slab, e.g. anytime you are "just looking" at text, or when text fields happen to be present on web pages :-)

[Gajja]

Yes the PKB is a thing of the past.....said the sketchy Apple/Samsung oriented salesman down at the local Best Buy some years ago. But those nasty Laptops and the dreadful boat-anchor Desktops, we kept trying to EOL them, but they wouldn't die. Hey they almost convinced everyone....they even somehow convinced IBM to abandon them, and sell them off to Lenovo.

Heehee so true. There is a whole area of academic study that can show whether it's best to have a handle, wheel, button, lever, etc for the job. I wouldn't want to use a PC with a VKB, or drive a car by touchscreen. I know touchscreen is being (has been?) tried on "everything" at the moment but that's just fashion and popular culture, like when it was popular to put everything on 5 1/4" floppy disc and popular opinion said everything would be available on floppy disc. The touch screen will find its place, but that place is not "every device", at least maybe only in the medium term until better alternatives become socially acceptable.

[the_boon]

Heehee so true. There is a whole area of academic study that can show whether it's best to have a handle, wheel, button, lever, etc for the job. I wouldn't want to use a PC with a VKB, or drive a car by touchscreen. I know touchscreen is being (has been?) tried on "everything" at the moment but that's just fashion and popular culture, like when it was popular to put everything on 5 1/4" floppy disc and popular opinion said everything would be available on floppy disc. The touch screen will find its place, but that place is not "every device", at least maybe only in the medium term until better alternatives become socially acceptable.

100% agree.

Slabbing is not the solution to everything.

It already kind of sucks that it's so dominant in smartphones and some cars interface..

Real buttons/levers/dials are proven to work and have for decades.

A faulty button spring means 1 broken function, a faulty LCD could prevent the user from doing any kind of interaction.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Heehee so true. There is a whole area of academic study that can show whether it's best to have a handle, wheel, button, lever, etc for the job. I wouldn't want to use a PC with a VKB, or drive a car by touchscreen. I know touchscreen is being (has been?) tried on "everything" at the moment but that's just fashion and popular culture, like when it was popular to put everything on 5 1/4" floppy disc and popular opinion said everything would be available on floppy disc. The touch screen will find its place, but that place is not "every device", at least maybe only in the medium term until better alternatives become socially acceptable.

Problem is usage varies.... how much do people use their phone for typing and how much for viewing. Back in the 2000's we were all just typing away, that's what they were for. Today, most people spend a lot more time viewing things.... Entertainment, Social Media, Games or Shopping. Those activities require very little typing by the user. So with a ratio of 90% Viewing and 10% typing... a big screen with a VKB is the best choice.

Now enterprise like the Bank (assume more finical institute than bank)... I'm sure they are hoping those phones will be used for more productive activities.

[the_boon]

Problem is usage varies.... how much do people use their phone for typing and how much for viewing. Back in the 2000's we were all just typing away, that's what they were for. Today, most people spend a lot more time viewing things.... Entertainment, Social Media, Games or Shopping. Those activities require very little typing by the user. So with a ratio of 90% Viewing and 10% typing... a big screen with a VKB is the best choice.

Now enterprise like the Bank (assume more finical institute than bank)... I'm sure they are hoping those phones will be used for more productive activities.

In a business setting, I'd say there is a lot of typing on the go, for which a VKB is inferior.

[bb10adopter111]

In a business setting, I'd say there is a lot of typing on the go, for which a VKB is inferior.

I'm a huge, long-time BlackBerry fan, who uses my phones almost exclusively for "typing on the go" in a "business setting" and after 9 years on a BlackBerry PKB and almost 6 on the Z10 VKB, I can't say that there is much of a difference for practical purposes. I can produce text significantly faster on the VKB with only a minimal decrease in accuracy, but editing is far more precise on the PKB.

One of my favorite things about my KEYone is that I can draft using the VKB and edit with the PKB. If only the Hub and the rest of Android navigation were as satisfying on Android.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[glwerry]

My experience tells me that mabe the have moved on but they are will to return under the right circumstances. What I mean is everyone that sees my phone starts remembering how the loved there berry's and would return if the phones are up to date with current apps and such! Well that tells me that BlackBerry is not marketing correctly because the phones are up to date and current the people just don't know they are!

Many companies, which is where you started, have moved to Apple for their corporate phones.
I have a brother-in-law who works for a major Canadian bank - they used to be strong supporters of BB10 - he had a Passport for a long time. Now, however, they have moved to Apple, as has the corporation that I work for.

My corporation got tired of the fees associated with OS7 and having to maintain their own BB mail servers.
In our case it had nothing to do with apps.

[Gajja]

Problem is usage varies.... how much do people use their phone for typing and how much for viewing. Back in the 2000's we were all just typing away, that's what they were for. Today, most people spend a lot more time viewing things.... Entertainment, Social Media, Games or Shopping. Those activities require very little typing by the user. So with a ratio of 90% Viewing and 10% typing... a big screen with a VKB is the best choice.

Now enterprise like the Bank (assume more finical institute than bank)... I'm sure they are hoping those phones will be used for more productive activities.

It's certainly true a big section of the population mainly uses their phone/tablet/laptop/pc for mainly viewing stuff, also there are people who have to create and upload stuff and chat about it, these people are less keen on virtual keyboards on tablets/laptops/pcs, and yes even phones.

[Gajja]

My corporation got tired of the fees associated with OS7 and having to maintain their own BB mail servers.
In our case it had nothing to do with apps.

I've heard others say similar things. I don't doubt that it was an unpopular fact. With BB10 it kinda went away, but people didn't notice. For example when I bought a Z10 even the mobile service provider automatically put me on an "old style" contract with what they called "BlackBerry Mail" (BBM of the BBOS variety), Of course it was inappropriate for a BB10 device and it didn't work, if I hadn't known enough about the device and other people's experiences (from CrackBerry) I might never have got onto the correct kind of "regular" mobile contract.

[Bbnivende]

It's certainly true a big section of the population mainly uses their phone/tablet/laptop/pc for mainly viewing stuff, also there are people who have to create and upload stuff and chat about it, these people are less keen on virtual keyboards on tablets/laptops/pcs, and yes even phones.

Most phone users have never owned a BlackBerry. They need to market the PKB not on the basis of productivity but rather tactile feel and other subjective benefits.

[Gajja]

Most phone users have never owned a BlackBerry. They need to market the PKB not on the basis of productivity but rather tactile feel and other subjective benefits.

They certainly need to push somehow to change the social norm. That norm currently says a phone has to be a slab without any/many buttons if it is going to be socially acceptable to people when they tell their friends what they bought. I'm sure there are plenty of confident people out there who are not afraid to go with what suits them best, but they are almost certainly outnumbered by people who will buy what is socially accepted by the people and groups around them regardless of whether it is actually any use in their personal situation. Selling it to the group is often on an emotive basis and you are right that productivity is maybe not a big motivator to most social groups :-)

[bb10adopter111]

Most phone users have never owned a BlackBerry. They need to market the PKB not on the basis of productivity but rather tactile feel and other subjective benefits.

Your assumption that BlackBerry should market to the mainstream is not based on any objective data or marketing best practice. It's tempting to see a huge segment as the logical target, but it's rarely the best strategy in the real world.

BlackBerry Mobile needs to identify segments of the market that are NOT WELL SERVED by the existing mainstream solutions. The reason is simple: it's much more difficult, expensive and uncertain to persuade a satisfied customer to switch brands than to tempt a dissatisfied customer to try something new. It literally costs hundreds of dollars per user in the consumer space, so that the investment often isn't recovered until the consumer makes a second, third or fourth purchase of the item (or influences others to do the purchase).

This is why the obvious segments for BlackBerry Mobile to target are a) current BlackBerry users, who have presumably resisted iPhones, Pixels, Samsung's, etc. for a reason; and b) former BlackBerry users who may not be completely satisfied with their current choice.

If BlackBerry Mobile wishes to target the general market, they will need to do so in discrete segments with very specific desires that are not completely satisfied by the other mainstream products. It's much more efficient and effective to market to niches like that than it is to try to target the general public.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Bbnivende]

Your assumption that BlackBerry should market to the mainstream is not based on any objective data or marketing best practice. It's tempting to see a huge segment as the logical target, but it's rarely the best strategy in the real world.

BlackBerry Mobile needs to identify segments of the market that are NOT WELL SERVED by the existing mainstream solutions. The reason is simple: it's much more difficult, expensive and uncertain to persuade a satisfied customer to switch brands than to tempt a dissatisfied customer to try something new. It literally costs hundreds of dollars per user in the consumer space, so that the investment often isn't recovered until the consumer makes a second, third or fourth purchase of the item (or influences others to do the purchase).

This is why the obvious segments for BlackBerry Mobile to target are a) current BlackBerry users, who have presumably resisted iPhones, Pixels, Samsung's, etc. for a reason; and b) former BlackBerry users who may not be completely satisfied with their current choice.

If BlackBerry Mobile wishes to target the general market, they will need to do so in discrete segments with very specific desires that are not completely satisfied by the other mainstream products. It's much more efficient and effective to market to niches like that than it is to try to target the general public.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Currently TCL special segmenting consists (more or less) of providing a PKB and PKB shortcuts , BlackBerry software and the root of trust. Their current customers are BlackBerry PKB fans and some enterprise's or employee BYOD. The fans seem to be on a very short refresh cycle.

OK this is a good start - a base - but how can BlackBerry increase sales ? The next step is to focus on old markets that used to be good but are no longer so. For example the USA consumer ,enterprise and Nigeria consumers were good markets for BBOS phones.

They can differentiate their product line up. They can make a smaller device, a larger device and a slider. In my view, only the slider moves the needle past their current base but we don't really know.

Chen thinks a small cheap PKB device like the Q5-10/9900 might increase sales using the second phone approach. Chen was hoping an OEM might follow through with his idea. He was thinking of their old base - business and professionals circa 2009. Personally, I think that old base has moved on or moved up the chain of command.

How can a OEM make a phone for discreet segments ? Punkt makes a phone for a small market. They could make an expensive BBOS like phone.

Back to the general public. Yes, you are probably correct. The ship has sailed . the PKB is like a manual transmission. I was just pointing out that marketing PKB productivity is not going to help sell BlackBerries.

What phones can BlackBerry Mobile make that not being satisfied currently by themselves or other OEM’s?

[drobbie]

Currently TCL special segmenting consists (more or less) of providing a PKB and PKB shortcuts , BlackBerry software and the root of trust. Their current customers are BlackBerry PKB fans and some enterprise's or employee BYOD. The fans seem to be on a very short refresh cycle.

OK this is a good start - a base - but how can BlackBerry increase sales ? The next step is to focus on old markets that used to be good but are no longer so. For example the USA consumer ,enterprise and Nigeria consumers were good markets for BBOS phones.

They can differentiate their product line up. They can make a smaller device, a larger device and a slider. In my view, only the slider moves the needle past their current base but we don't really know.

Chen thinks a small cheap PKB device like the Q5-10/9900 might increase sales using the second phone approach. He is thinking of their old base - business and professionals circa 2009. Personally, I think that old base has moved on or moved up the chain of command.

How can a OEM make a phone for discreet segments ? Punkt makes a phone for a small market. They could make an expensive BBOS like phone.

Back to the general public. Yes, you are probably correct. The ship has sailed . the PKB is like a manual transmission. I was just pointing out that marketing PKB productivity is not going to help sell BlackBerries.

What phones can BlackBerry make that not being satisfied currently by themselves or other OEM’s?

At this point in time Blackberry is not focusing on phone. Given Chen credit and watch the plan materialize.

[Bbnivende]

At this point in time Blackberry is not focusing on phone. Given Chen credit and watch the plan materialize.

Edit : BlackBerry Mobile. Chen’s only mobile aspirations are to monetize their current phone intellectual property

[conite]

Edit : BlackBerry Mobile. Chen’s only mobile aspirations are to monetize their current phone intellectual property

I think you meant Indonesia - not Nigeria.

But those types of markets won't support a premium device. They are looking for bargain basement stuff.

[Bbnivende]

I think you meant Indonesia - not Nigeria.

But those types of markets won't support a premium device. They are looking for bargain basement stuff.

https://allafrica.com/stories/201811280091.html

BlackBerry targets 10 percent of the Nigerian market. The Nigerian market is large and formerly huge for BBOS.

I didn’t say that BlackBerry Mobile’s goal was realistic or attainable.

[conite]

https://allafrica.com/stories/201811280091.html

BlackBerry targets 10 percent of the Nigerian market. The Nigerian market is large and formerly huge for BBOS.

I didn’t say that BlackBerry Mobile’s goal was realistic or attainable.

OK. But at one point in 2014, Indonesia had more than 3/4 of existing BlackBerry users.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BBOS was huge in many markets where either "re-purposed" devices were sold cheaply. Or where the saving of BIS allow BlackBerry to compete with other $400 & $500 phones. Or because BBM was a great way to securely communicate with almost everyone you knew....

Today in those markets, a BlackBerry doesn't save you anything on data.... and brand new phones can be had for under $100. And BBM is neither secure or widely used.

The reasons that BlackBerry once ruled the market... are not relevant in today's changing world.