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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Right but it's much less financially demanding and risky to made add-on cases (especially if it's for popular models like iPhone/Galaxy) than making full-on devices which requires FCC and Bluetooth certifications etc...

    And how do you know Typo's were already tanking? They were a first attempt at making something like this, and could have vastly improved down the road.

    Again, PKB phone is better than PKB case, but PKB case is still better than nothing.
    They weren't the first or last attempt, and Typo was already on their 2nd generation.

    There are lots of PKB designs out there that don't copy BlackBerry. If there was a market for these cases - Samsung wouldn't have stopped offering them. Someone other than TYPO would have stepped up. But the bottom line is the cases weren't working well, and most people removed them and never bought another.

    They were a transitional phase between all the millions of PKB phones sold at one time and the new dominance of the SLAB phone. But that transitional phase was over years ago... for the market.

    I get that many still want a PKB phone or at the very least a PKB case... converting that "many" to a viable market is the problem. No matter what anyone does, there will always be a reason that most will not accept the new product. It's too heavy, it's too cheap, the software is questionable, the functional isn't perfect, the keys wobble, the keys are stiff, backlighitng isn't right, too wide, too narrow, too un-BlackBerry....

    With the move to gestures, in-screen fingerprint sensing, bezelss phones... would a clip on case even work on iOS or Android at this point?
    SeeBeeEss and Vistaus like this.
    08-13-19 08:54 AM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    They weren't the first or last attempt, and Typo was already on their 2nd generation.

    There are lots of PKB designs out there that don't copy BlackBerry. If there was a market for these cases - Samsung wouldn't have stopped offering them. Someone other than TYPO would have stepped up. But the bottom line is the cases weren't working well, and most people removed them and never bought another.

    They were a transitional phase between all the millions of PKB phones sold at one time and the new dominance of the SLAB phone. But that transitional phase was over years ago... for the market.

    I get that many still want a PKB phone or at the very least a PKB case... converting that "many" to a viable market is the problem. No matter what anyone does, there will always be a reason that most will not accept the new product. It's too heavy, it's too cheap, the software is questionable, the functional isn't perfect, the keys wobble, the keys are stiff, backlighitng isn't right, too wide, too narrow, too un-BlackBerry....

    With the move to gestures, in-screen fingerprint sensing, bezelss phones... would a clip on case even work on iOS or Android at this point?
    Good points, but I'm still hoping there will always be one wagon left on the PKB train...

    Up to the leftover PKB enthusiasts to support whichever start-up company comes up with a kickstarter style project like the Tec Pro 1 and Titan.
    08-13-19 12:03 PM
  3. Vistaus's Avatar
    BlackBerry could make keyboard cases for other phones like Typo did, I guess. I'd think they'll be suing Unihertz soon, maybe they'll strike a royalty deal. They have tons of patents they could license.

    Posted via CB10
    Every time I say that BB should sue because of patent infringement, people are like "no, they're not going after small players". Unihertz is a small player, so people here will tell you that they're not going after them.
    08-13-19 05:15 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Good points, but I'm still hoping there will always be one wagon left on the PKB train...

    Up to the leftover PKB enthusiasts to support whichever start-up company comes up with a kickstarter style project like the Tec Pro 1 and Titan.
    My PKB wagon these days is a 12 inch Linux laptop with cellular broadband. Next year, I may drop my phone service altogether and use my handhelds with my laptop's mobile hotspot and home/work WiFi only.

    I prefer my VOIP services to my carrier phone services anyway. It's almost time for me to cut the cellular cord and go to a data only plan for one device.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-13-19 05:39 PM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    My PKB wagon these days is a 12 inch Linux laptop with cellular broadband. Next year, I may drop my phone service altogether and use my handhelds with my laptop's mobile hotspot and home/work WiFi only.

    I prefer my VOIP services to my carrier phone services anyway. It's almost time for me to cut the cellular cord and go to a data only plan for one device.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Well... we don't want to carry around a laptop to get a set of physical keys.

    It's supposed to be a MOBILE device, remember?
    08-13-19 09:02 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well... we don't want to carry around a laptop to get a set of physical keys.

    It's supposed to be a MOBILE device, remember?
    That's a big difference between the mass market and a certain segment of business users. I see my ultra portable laptop (such as a Surface, or, in my case, a 12.5 inch traditional clamshell, as the most important part of my mobile rig. I always have it with me because I use software for which phones and tablets are useless.

    That's also why I NEED a small, portable phone that is great at a few simple things, the exact things that legacy BlackBerry (BBOS/BB10) did so well, with or without the PKB.

    With no one focused on my needs, it's much easier to get my laptop to do what my phone does than try to replicate what my laptop can do on iOS or Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-14-19 05:42 AM
  7. the_boon's Avatar
    That's a big difference between the mass market and a certain segment of business users. I see my ultra portable laptop (such as a Surface, or, in my case, a 12.5 inch traditional clamshell, as the most important part of my mobile rig. I always have it with me because I use software for which phones and tablets are useless.

    That's also why I NEED a small, portable phone that is great at a few simple things, the exact things that legacy BlackBerry (BBOS/BB10) did so well, with or without the PKB.

    With no one focused on my needs, it's much easier to get my laptop to do what my phone does than try to replicate what my laptop can do on iOS or Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Got it. But ideally, a device that you can do all you need efficiently AND that fits in a pocket should be available.
    08-14-19 10:28 AM
  8. howarmat's Avatar
    Got it. But ideally, a device that you can do all you need efficiently AND that fits in a pocket should be available.
    but its just not going to happen. the computing power and battery just wont allow for it.....20 years from now it will obviously be different
    08-14-19 11:21 AM
  9. ppeters914's Avatar
    I wouldn't spend that kind of money. I'd be looking at Nokia or OnePlus.
    That's where I was headed until I scored an LG G7 with barely 4 hours of use for $450. Added BB Suite and Evie launcher....Golden!

    Well, other than missing BB10 and dealing with Android.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    08-14-19 12:11 PM
  10. danfrancisco's Avatar
    I am actually quite worried that within the year TCL is going to announce they will no longer be making blackberry phones. Obviously I hope I'm dead wrong. But if this happens do you think Blackberry will be able to find another company to license the name too or will this mark the end of blackberry phones and the end of PKB devices?
    Afraid? I am in full out FUD mode these days!!!
    08-14-19 12:46 PM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    but its just not going to happen. the computing power and battery just wont allow for it.....20 years from now it will obviously be different
    OK, I'm not sure what you thought I meant, but I was simply referring to modern PKB devices like the KEY phones lol
    08-14-19 01:16 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Got it. But ideally, a device that you can do all you need efficiently AND that fits in a pocket should be available.
    There are no such devices for the analytics, machine learning and AI tools I use daily. Not to mention Adobe creative tools, VBA scripts, Power Shell scripts, etc.! None of them run on Android or iOS. Maybe if there were a Linux phone with 32 GB of RAM, a 1TB SSDS, and a discrete graphics engine with entry-level Quadro performance specs optimized for data science, I could manage it. I'll check back in five years.

    When I hear people say that they don't need a PC if they have a smartphone, I just smile.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    ppeters914 and SeeBeeEss like this.
    08-14-19 05:37 PM
  13. the_boon's Avatar
    When I hear people say that they don't need a PC if they have a smartphone, I just smile.
    Welllll......

    Maybe a Priv 2 with optical trackpad and stylus...
    08-14-19 08:21 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Welllll......

    Maybe a Priv 2 with optical trackpad and stylus...
    I wouldn't use that if you paid me to. For me, both a slider and a stylus are completed fails. The y require extra steps every time I use them. They require two hands to operate.

    The reason I still use my Z10 Is that it's a convenient one-handed device for the exact tasks for which I don't want to use my laptop.

    When I'm running complex tasks on my PC, I don't want to devote resources to a Web browser or an email client to manage communications, meetings, etc.

    I understand that you want a single device that fits in your pocket and does everything, but I hope you understand how unrealistic that is for many professionals.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-15-19 06:14 AM
  15. the_boon's Avatar
    I understand that you want a single device that fits in your pocket and does everything, but I hope you understand how unrealistic that is for many professionals.
    I do, but the one I described above would still be closer than the glass slabs.
    08-15-19 06:37 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I do, but the one I described above would still be closer than the glass slabs.
    I understand. Unlike you and a number of other members around here, for me, the PKB just isn't as big a deal as one-handed ease-of-use.

    That's what I love about legacy BBOS devices and my Z10. I find the pros and cons of PKB vs. I'm VKB to balance out. VKB is faster for writing, but a little less accurate, and PKB is more accurate and better for editing.

    I honestly have no preference between the two and switch between them both throughout the day.
    08-15-19 09:04 AM
  17. WES51's Avatar
    PKB ---> JOINT PROBLEMS

    Sadly, I don't think PKB has any long future. Because, those who need it most are using it intensively and hence likely won't be able to do so on the long run without getting joint problems!

    Don't get me wrong, I love PKB and sure don't want to give up on it.

    BUT (!)

    Even my typing on glass seems to result joint problems. My doctor told me that this is a new issue that really took off since smart phones got popular. More and more people are getting this problem, especially the OLDER FOLKS.

    The doctor also told me not to use my thumbs for typing, but rather move my hand over the glass and to use other fingers.

    When Blackberry first came out with PKB, this info may not have been on the radar or anticipated. But now there is this "a-ha" moment and I doubt many affected folks will want to return to PKB.

    As my case illustrates even I may need to retire the PKB idea for health reasons. I dual carry for a while now and I find myself wanting to type more and more on glass for the pain in my joints.
    08-15-19 09:41 AM
  18. the_boon's Avatar
    PKB ---> JOINT PROBLEMS

    Sadly, I don't think PKB has any long future. Because, those who need it most are using it intensively and hence likely won't be able to do so on the long run without getting joint problems!

    Don't get me wrong, I love PKB and sure don't want to give up on it.

    BUT (!)

    Even my typing on glass seems to result joint problems. My doctor told me that this is a new issue that really took off since smart phones got popular. More and more people are getting this problem, especially the OLDER FOLKS.

    The doctor also told me not to use my thumbs for typing, but rather move my hand over the glass and to use other fingers.

    When Blackberry first came out with PKB, this info may not have been on the radar or anticipated. But now there is this "a-ha" moment and I doubt many affected folks will want to return to PKB.

    As my case illustrates even I may need to retire the PKB idea for health reasons. I dual carry for a while now and I find myself wanting to type more and more on glass for the pain in my joints.
    A softer PKB with easier key press as well as the right case on the phone could help the thumbs do less bending to reach and depress each key
    08-15-19 09:46 AM
  19. WES51's Avatar
    A softer PKB with easier key press as well as the right case on the phone could help the thumbs do less bending to reach and depress each key
    The problem is that I was told by the doctor not to use the thumbs at all and instead hover my hands and finger over the letters. And this of course with the assumption that I'm typing 'softly' on glass.
    08-15-19 10:03 AM
  20. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    do remember all phone manufacturers announced a sharp drop in phone sales. you don't expect them to push out to many phones when everyone is having trouble selling new devices.
    Maybe (for bb10 devices at least) that's why BlackBerry should consider selling BB10 OS upgrades through BlackBerryWorld (of course)....like microsoft does for office (you get 365days only version)...maybe not an annual subscription that dies if you don't pay (like office), but keep what you have or upgrade to a more secure and functional bb10 (maybe with an Android sandbox upgrade!!!!)....and on the Android devices, maybe an upgrade app that includes a private bb10os vm so you get the real hub back!
    08-15-19 11:49 AM
  21. Bravestar79's Avatar
    I wouldn't use that if you paid me to. For me, both a slider and a stylus are completed fails. The y require extra steps every time I use them. They require two hands to operate.

    The reason I still use my Z10 Is that it's a convenient one-handed device for the exact tasks for which I don't want to use my laptop.

    When I'm running complex tasks on my PC, I don't want to devote resources to a Web browser or an email client to manage communications, meetings, etc.

    I understand that you want a single device that fits in your pocket and does everything, but I hope you understand how unrealistic that is for many professionals.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I don't know how you use a phone with such an atrocious battery life
    08-15-19 11:55 AM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The problem is that I was told by the doctor not to use the thumbs at all and instead hover my hands and finger over the letters. And this of course with the assumption that I'm typing 'softly' on glass.
    Or change to using dictation instead, but even then, one might get "voice tunnel syndrome." It funtions decently on BB10 (for now) I think they still sell those rollup full sized bluetooth rubber keyboards, so maybe that would be a crutch while you are healing., or a permanent solution...so you can get all the other digits to type as well.
    08-15-19 12:05 PM
  23. WES51's Avatar
    ...so maybe that would be a crutch while you are healing., or a permanent solution...
    Many thanks!

    This happened to me twice already in the past 5 years and both times it lasted about 6 month. I even have some of it now, so I have to watch myself.

    I basically wanted to bring awareness to this issue and sort of warn other fellow smart phone warriors as well.

    Also I wanted to mention this in context of PKB as one unfortunate 'limitation' that I have found, which unfortunately may work out to be another nail in PKBs coffin.

    Main thing, I recommend everyone to manage their screen time and most notably manage their amount of typing.

    Mismanagement may not hurt in the near term, but I have the feeling that many people of the 'smart phone generation' will end up having eye, posture and joint related issues.

    And when this 'smart phone geretation' gets older and worn out from typing, the next smarter (possibly) 'voice command phone generation' will look back and just shake their heads in disbelief what kind of damages the previous 'smart phone generation' people managed to bring upon themselves.
    08-15-19 12:31 PM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    I don't know how you use a phone with such an atrocious battery life
    I know right?

    By my logic, it wouldn't matter how "workflow efficient" BB10 and the Z10 are if one of the most important components (battery) can't keep up for a day.

    Even the Priv with all battery tips applied would run circles around that phone.
    08-15-19 12:43 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I know right?

    By my logic, it wouldn't matter how "workflow efficient" BB10 and the Z10 are if one of the most important components (battery) can't keep up for a day.

    Even the Priv with all battery tips applied would run circles around that phone.
    Meh. For me, it's worth it for the small size and the bright screen. Honestly, the battery life has never been a big deal because of the swappable battery. I always have a spare battery charged, and it takes up almost no space in my kit.

    Also, if you don't use the hopelessly poor performing ART, the battery lasts 4-6 hours of moderate to heavy use. That's more than enough time to recharge the spare battery.

    It all depends on what you value. My KEYone has great battery life, but is too large to use one-handed, so I leave it In my bag, which really increases the battery life!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-15-19 04:34 PM
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