1. conite's Avatar
    I answered @ the boon, who was talking about Apple and the possibility of a pkb case for their latest iPhones. The case would be classed as a Snap-on
    I recognise that. I was just clarifying my statement just in case.
    06-10-19 01:45 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Honestly, this could end up being better for everyone. There are so many patents on keyboard designs, this could be used from everything from the 4g nokia feature phones they've said they'll be doubling down on, to midrange android devices coming out of price competitive chinese companies.
    Right there are so many that could make a PKB phone without BlackBerry if they felt there was a need for it.

    Too be honest I'm surprised that the only home grown PKB has been the Jio Phone 2. Would have taught we'd have seen other in markets like India, China and even Indonesia offering a BlackBerry clone...

    But then ten years ago there were a number of them, and they all failed.

    Decoupled from hardware, blackberry could focus on cross-platform software, rather than being tied to android, or to phones.
    What software... again they need to offer something that the market doesn't already have plenty of options for. And it needs to be a solid solution. I wanted to use HUB+, but it was too buggy last summer... and from time to time there are issues that seem to get out of hand for BB small development team.

    Enterprise software and Automotive is what they'll stick with.

    And in the meantime, PDA-style kickstarter companies are proving their is demand for a micro-laptop type experience, that I suspect bigger companies will stop and note, as they did with pocket laptops, and isometric rpgs.

    Perhaps someone will be smart enough to see the 2 in 1 convertible trend, and make a phone with a rotating 360 hinge
    Combined... how many units of those kickstarters have been "backed"? Sorry but a few thousand phones isn't going to get the attention of mainstream manufactures.

    Moto did not get enough interest for their keyboard MOD, Samsung didn't have enough interest to keep making their keyboard accessory. And if TCL can't make it with just PKB phones.... why would someone else give it a try?

    I think kickstarters is about the best that can be hoped for...
    John Albert likes this.
    06-10-19 01:45 PM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I was talking about real keyboards - not some lame attachment.
    Well, for what it's worth, Ryan Seacrest's Typo for iPhone case gen 1 version has key sculpting that is closer to the Bold 9900 and Classic than any of TCL's devices, and the latter actually has the right to copy those patents lol.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    06-10-19 09:03 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well, for what it's worth, Ryan Seacrest's Typo for iPhone case gen 1 version has key sculpting that is closer to the Bold 9900 and Classic than any of TCL's devices, and the latter actually has the right to copy those patents lol.
    It was almost like BB10 and it's devices were developed by a different company. I never understood why the Q10 wasn't a Bold and the Q5 wasn't a Curve. Update the internals and leave the form factor alone.... other than they hadn't put much work into BB10 working with buttons.
    06-11-19 08:02 AM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    Right there are so many that could make a PKB phone without BlackBerry if they felt there was a need for it.

    Too be honest I'm surprised that the only home grown PKB has been the Jio Phone 2. Would have taught we'd have seen other in markets like India, China and even Indonesia offering a BlackBerry clone...

    But then ten years ago there were a number of them, and they all failed.
    Nokia reports it sold 10 million of it's 'classic reborn' 4g feature phones in 2018, and will be doubling down on them. On a non touch OS like KaiOS, qwerty makes more than 100% sense. Nokia should make one, and IMO, they might make one. JioPhone is showing how a feature phone should be done in 2019. And there are so many markets to sell that to.

    What software... again they need to offer something that the market doesn't already have plenty of options for. And it needs to be a solid solution. I wanted to use HUB+, but it was too buggy last summer... and from time to time there are issues that seem to get out of hand for BB small development team.

    Enterprise software and Automotive is what they'll stick with.
    Hub would actually work pretty well on PC, if it could combine all messenging and email. Security is always in demand, as is encryption. I'm sure they always have code that could be employed in wider useage. Secure email for enterprise for example. Their brand helps. Smartphone delivers beans. They need PC money.

    Combined... how many units of those kickstarters have been "backed"? Sorry but a few thousand phones isn't going to get the attention of mainstream manufactures.

    Moto did not get enough interest for their keyboard MOD, Samsung didn't have enough interest to keep making their keyboard accessory. And if TCL can't make it with just PKB phones.... why would someone else give it a try?

    I think kickstarters is about the best that can be hoped for...
    One of them has about 4.3 million. And there's two, one isn't a kickstarter, just a pre-order so I think we could safely call it 9-10 million so far for both. Units? IDK, only one of them is public. Probably 5000 or so for each, so 10,000+ for both?

    You might think so, but obsidian games launched their 'pillars of eterntiy' series of games on an initially 4 million, then eventually got brought by microsoft after their sequel games.

    GPD made a pocket laptop funded for about 4 mil, and now chuwi and one other bit western OEM (HP?) that I forget made a pocket laptop.Chuwis pocket laptop actually looks pretty tight because it has 360 hinge, touch screen, and the keyboard layout is really well though out.

    Neither happened immediately, the crossover. But each successive kickstarter built them up to being noticed.

    Whether it'll have enough after production sales, and the next projects after than, to have that buzz to cross over IDK. But this sort of think happens regularly these days, kickstarter exposing more market demand for things than major OEMs thought they would have. Software, hardware, there are plenty of case examples.

    But the point being both GPD, and obsidian games made it to the mainstream, and started a movement with initial KS/pre-order of around the same size of each of these. It's a start of the same scale of other KS's that have changed peoples idea about the market for their respective products, after the product has built up a bit more.

    I wouldn't compare either of those products to TCLs BB phones. They have higher end hardware, ability to run multiple operating systems, more ram, more storage, better cameras, and they are PDA style, more like a tiny laptop (Which as I stated earlier is a format people are familiar with in the modern age; laptops and 2 in 1s, they sell, people know em).

    They are closer to a hybrid between a pocket laptop, and a phone. When people see a key1, they probably think of old BB's and think it's weird. When they see something like a 2 in 1, or laptop, they probably thing of new technology and think, that might be useful.

    Plus we already have pocket laptops, multiple OEMS making them and making profit. So the stretch to one that is a bit smaller, and also a useful phone isn't conceptually huge. In fact it's kind of an obvious evolution of the pocket laptop. (If MSFT releases it's windows core variant in the next year or so, it would make even more sense as an evolution in some ways)

    If either of those KS's (or rather to be accurate the fx has a private fundrasier via presales) sell as well, or better, after production, they'll generate buzz, and by the time version 2 or 3 rolls around, I bet a bigger OEM will consider it. At the very least, someone in china.

    IF. We aren't quite there yet.

    I honestly do think the PDA style has better odds of success than key1. Especially if they can get convertible elements, like detachable keyboard case, or 360 hinge, like 2 in 1 laptops. TCL just isn't innovating enough on form, and their hardware is too crusty. They have no wow for regular folk, and enterprise just use their software at most.

    Keyboard mods are even a more different topic. Samsungs keyboard mod had no backlight, and it was inaccurate. Motorola has been pushing wacky mods for ages, and it's been a mixed bag for their whole mod strategy. Touch based hard keys just isn't a thing that works well.

    Curious what that motorola mod would have looked like though. With a proper port/attachement a keyboard mod could work well. No one has really done that yet. If you want a keyboard that attaches to work, you have to have a surface like magnetic port, that transfers the keypresses, and shows a backlight.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-11-19 at 09:34 AM.
    06-11-19 09:05 AM
  6. o4liberty's Avatar
    I believe my key2 will be my last blackberry device since it's not looking good for them. There is no sign of life gearing towards promoting new devices and trying to buy a new device is getting harder. Blackberry had a great run but it's time is almost up unfortunately and I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.
    elfabio80 and John Albert like this.
    06-11-19 09:47 AM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It was almost like BB10 and it's devices were developed by a different company. I never understood why the Q10 wasn't a Bold and the Q5 wasn't a Curve. Update the internals and leave the form factor alone.... other than they hadn't put much work into BB10 working with buttons.
    Yes. The conservative thing to do would have been to make a traditional BlackBerry with apps and a great (at the time) HTML-compliant browser experience that was, frankly, better than Apple's. That would have appealed to the base. They still could have launched the "new" form factors to appeal to Apple and Android users.

    Would it have mattered? I'm skeptical. I think BlackBerry was trying to stay relevant and adopted a reckless "go big or go home" attitude to meet the expectations of investors who had spotted them an $80B market cap. If the goal was to justify that valuation, nothing short of leap-frogging either Apple or Android for 2nd place in the OS wars would have been sufficient.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-11-19 09:54 AM
  8. o4liberty's Avatar
    Blackberry 10 with access to android apps would of made it if they were able to speed the devices up and have a better camera. If they came out with a Bold like device running Android I would be the first in line to buy one as long as it's specs are up to date. I currently use a key2 and a pixel 3 and the pixel is light years ahead of the key2. I prefer a PKB but need the specs of the pixel for some tasks like photos and video. Let just hope they stick around. I still have my Bold and play with it every now and then to keep battery going wow do I miss the past.
    06-11-19 10:12 AM
  9. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    hmmm I could swear we saw news and roumors about few new TLC made Blackberrys for next year...
    so no worries!
    06-11-19 10:16 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Yes. The conservative thing to do would have been to make a traditional BlackBerry with apps and a great (at the time) HTML-compliant browser experience that was, frankly, better than Apple's. That would have appealed to the base. They still could have launched the "new" form factors to appeal to Apple and Android users.

    Would it have mattered? I'm skeptical. I think BlackBerry was trying to stay relevant and adopted a reckless "go big or go home" attitude to meet the expectations of investors who had spotted them an $80B market cap. If the goal was to justify that valuation, nothing short of leap-frogging either Apple or Android for 2nd place in the OS wars would have been sufficient.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    There is no doubt in my mind that it wouldn't have changed the outcome all that much. Might have sold an extra million Q10's...
    06-11-19 10:23 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yes. The conservative thing to do would have been to make a traditional BlackBerry with apps and a great (at the time) HTML-compliant browser experience that was, frankly, better than Apple's. That would have appealed to the base. They still could have launched the "new" form factors to appeal to Apple and Android users.

    Would it have mattered? I'm skeptical. I think BlackBerry was trying to stay relevant and adopted a reckless "go big or go home" attitude to meet the expectations of investors who had spotted them an $80B market cap. If the goal was to justify that valuation, nothing short of leap-frogging either Apple or Android for 2nd place in the OS wars would have been sufficient.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    That was the strategy more or less. Since insiders were selling or had sold large blocks of their shares from 2010-2013, apparently success was not generally expected. The mobile OS duopoly was far better understood and expected to dominate. The BB insiders also understood the economic resources needed to survive as Microsoft kept failing as well.
    06-12-19 07:31 AM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Blackberry 10 with access to android apps would of made it if they were able to speed the devices up and have a better camera. If they came out with a Bold like device running Android I would be the first in line to buy one as long as it's specs are up to date. I currently use a key2 and a pixel 3 and the pixel is light years ahead of the key2. I prefer a PKB but need the specs of the pixel for some tasks like photos and video. Let just hope they stick around. I still have my Bold and play with it every now and then to keep battery going wow do I miss the past.

    Nothing could have mattered enough to save BB10 including the backing of Microsoft economic resources.
    06-12-19 07:50 AM
  13. jackcarr's Avatar
    Landscape pkb IS the reason I won't purchase those phones. I'll stick with my Key²LE until it is totally unusable, unless there is a K3 that has a bug free pkb (unlike the Key²).
    How is the physical keyboard on the Key2 bugged? I am using the KEYone Black Edition and it seems fine.
    06-15-19 08:03 PM
  14. RK_BB's Avatar
    How is the physical keyboard on the Key2 bugged? I am using the KEYone Black Edition and it seems fine.
    The K2 was haunted by 3 bugs, 2 of which were entirely resolved just recently:

    1. Involuntary activations of the SYM VKB
    2. Involuntary activations of Cursor Mode
    3. Bad recognition of predicted words swipe up gesture

    1 & 2 were solved just recently by adding an On/Off controls to the keyboard settings menu. Affected users can simply turn off these gestures and avoid these involuntary activations.

    3 made a huge leap forward with June OS update ABX648. It is not perfect but certainly tolerable.
    06-15-19 08:41 PM
  15. Doityourself's Avatar
    I think this is the sad reality.

    I hand it to blackberry for fully trying to regain market share.

    sad reality is that a small niche want a pkb like myself but the majority is slabs

    on the flip side I absolutely loved typing on my z10!

    oh well. looks like a Samsung with BlackBerry virtual keyboard!
    06-15-19 10:14 PM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    I think this is the sad reality.

    I hand it to blackberry for fully trying to regain market share.

    sad reality is that a small niche want a pkb like myself but the majority is slabs

    on the flip side I absolutely loved typing on my z10!

    oh well. looks like a Samsung with BlackBerry virtual keyboard!
    The majority has wanted slabs for a long time now, and it hasn't stopped some PKB devices from existing.

    If the PKB made it through 2013-2015 with BB10 catastrophic failure, I don't see why it can't survive with Android now.

    I think and hope there will be a KEY3.
    The licensing deal isn't up yet and why would they have put all this effort building BBMo infrastructure just to stop now.

    What I do think, is that the KEY3 will be at the KEYone or even LE price point.
    A very modest mid-ranger without impressive specs, but at least will deliver on the core without build issues, just like the LE.

    Just hopefully we at least get an AMOLED without permanent navigation buttons and a better LED light than the LE.
    06-15-19 11:27 PM
  17. Doityourself's Avatar
    The majority has wanted slabs for a long time now, and it hasn't stopped some PKB devices from existing.

    If the PKB made it through 2013-2015 with BB10 catastrophic failure, I don't see why it can't survive with Android now.

    I think and hope there will be a KEY3.
    The licensing deal isn't up yet and why would they have put all this effort building BBMo infrastructure just to stop now.

    What I do think, is that the KEY3 will be at the KEYone or even LE price point.
    A very modest mid-ranger without impressive specs, but at least will deliver on the core without build issues, just like the LE.

    Just hopefully we at least get an AMOLED without permanent navigation buttons and a better LED light than the LE.
    I absolutely love my key 2

    I would keep this phone for a long time

    Hopefully a key 3 does appear over the horizon

    Just wish blackberry had their own native sms app which works with the hub as for me it is such a ball ache having to open another app to read sms now!

    Apart from that the phone has done me proud

    I buy and sell cars and this phone is excellent for calls, messaging and mainly taking pics!
    Attached Thumbnails Anyone else afraid?-94153.jpg  
    Yesterday 05:14 PM
  18. kile6666's Avatar
    my life will come to an end without key3
    John Albert likes this.
    Yesterday 05:39 PM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    my life will come to an end without key3
    Not sure if sarcasm
    Yesterday 06:35 PM
  20. rocker_man1's Avatar
    do remember all phone manufacturers announced a sharp drop in phone sales. you don't expect them to push out to many phones when everyone is having trouble selling new devices.
    Yesterday 09:49 PM
  21. Doityourself's Avatar
    do remember all phone manufacturers announced a sharp drop in phone sales. you don't expect them to push out to many phones when everyone is having trouble selling new devices.
    Yes even Apple said that people are keeping their phones for longer
    Today 06:55 AM
  22. phrogpilot73's Avatar
    A sketchy USB-C cable destroyed (ish) my KeyOne. It somehow managed to pull a trace off the center circuit board of the USB-C port, which was shorting the data pins making it constantly trying to do a USB handshake. Battery was lasting 3 hours at best and it was running HOT.

    I can ended up buying a Key2, but was heavily considering the Note 9. A guy at work has a Note 8 and he let me put my SIM in and use it for the day at work.

    So, while I would prefer to move on from my Key2 to a Key3. If it's not an option, I think the Note series is where I'm going to instead.
    Today 08:07 AM
  23. Doityourself's Avatar
    A sketchy USB-C cable destroyed (ish) my KeyOne. It somehow managed to pull a trace off the center circuit board of the USB-C port, which was shorting the data pins making it constantly trying to do a USB handshake. Battery was lasting 3 hours at best and it was running HOT.

    I can ended up buying a Key2, but was heavily considering the Note 9. A guy at work has a Note 8 and he let me put my SIM in and use it for the day at work.

    So, while I would prefer to move on from my Key2 to a Key3. If it's not an option, I think the Note series is where I'm going to instead.
    I can't see a key 3 coming

    Hope BlackBerry pull a rabbit out the hat!
    Today 03:20 PM
  24. Drg84's Avatar
    HMD/Nokia has been rumored to be coming out with a qwerty phone since early 2018. They actually have a long history of them, going back to the beginnings of the E-series in the mid 2000s. Then they made a lot of feature phones, and ashas with Qwerty keyboards. They're probably the best bet to make a new qwerty phone other than blackberry. Other option would probably be Samsung or Motorola. But Nokia's the best net.
    John Albert likes this.
    Today 04:47 PM
  25. the_boon's Avatar
    I can't see a key 3 coming
    All I can see is...


    ...Monet...BBJ100...
    Today 07:03 PM
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