[bb10adopter111]

Unfortunately instead of trying to be inclusive and recognizing the value of member feedback on this forum for what it is, the largest and most powerful real world focus group for Blackberry, criticizing group members for their stated needs and requests has become all too common.

This divide and concur attitude could only lead to smaller and smaller groups and that is exactly what happened.

So now, in the end, the busy fanboys finally got what they wanted. Except that apparently now there aren't enough people left to support their idea. They kept marginalizing others until they were left by themselves and now their numbers aren't enough to keep the brand going.

1) I really don't buy that the words of a couple dozen people on CB had any material impact on the mobile marketplace

2) The fact that no one here can agree on what constitutes the perfect, or even a desirable, BlackBerry is an illustration of the problem with marketing niche products, but it is not the cause of the problem.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Chuck Finley69]

Unfortunately instead of trying to be inclusive and recognizing the value of member feedback on this forum for what it is, the largest and most powerful real world focus group for Blackberry, criticizing group members for their stated needs and requests has become all too common.

This divide and concur attitude could only lead to smaller and smaller groups and that is exactly what happened.

So now, in the end, the busy fanboys finally got what they wanted. Except that apparently now there aren't enough people left to support their idea. They kept marginalizing others until they were left by themselves and now their numbers aren't enough to keep the brand going.

The biggest mistake any company would ever make is listen to most if not all feedback and opinions in an uncontrolled environment such as CrackBerry or any other forum. Research and statistical analysis companies setup controls and sample requirements for minimum size and bias to deliver accurate, indicative useful data. That’s definitely not on any uncontrolled Internet venue.

[WES51]

The biggest mistake any company would ever make is listen to most if not all feedback and opinions in an uncontrolled environment such as CrackBerry or any other forum.

This should be carved in the gravestone of Blackberry.

[Chuck Finley69]

This should be carved in the gravestone of Blackberry.

It was, six years ago with the introduction of BB10 when it forgot the only real paying and profitable mobile BBOS consumers BlackBerry ever had. The only part of BlackBerry that died was the mobile hardware division. The company BlackBerry survives as it smartly exited three years ago.

[Sigewif]

The biggest mistake any company would ever make is listen to most if not all feedback and opinions in an uncontrolled environment such as CrackBerry or any other forum. Research and statistical analysis companies setup controls and sample requirements for minimum size and bias to deliver accurate, indicative useful data. That’s definitely not on any uncontrolled Internet venue.

Yes, analytics and market research is important, especially for a large company. However, is also important for a company to interact with the customer base. It is about PR. It doesn't take much but leaves an impression for the world to see in the public sphere. In interactions, even if an answer is "no" it is better than a cold shoulder.
In our business I have learned a lot from our customers. It is impossible to take everyone's suggestions, or even most of them, but they are the ones that are buying our products so they shouldn't be rebuffed and completely ignored. The customers are not primarily the handset buyers anymore, obviously. But they were at one point. Furthermore, everyone has potential contacts. For example, someone belongs to a Chamber of commerce. The sole proprietor entrepreneur and the decision maker for a large company often cross paths. One has a small startup niche business and uses a BlackBerry handset to keep organized. The other owns several businesses including one that has products in 6 thousand plus stores and could definitely use the security software BlackBerry offers. What the entrepreneur has experienced from BlackBerry as a handset owner will likely eventually come up in conversation.

[bb10adopter111]

Yes, analytics and market research is important, especially for a large company. However, is also important for a company to interact with the customer base. It is about PR. It doesn't take much but leaves an impression for the world to see in the public sphere. In interactions, even if an answer is "no" it is better than a cold shoulder.
In our business I have learned a lot from our customers. It is impossible to take everyone's suggestions, or even most of them, but they are the ones that are buying our products so they shouldn't be rebuffed and completely ignored. The customers are not primarily the handset buyers anymore, obviously. But they were at one point. Furthermore, everyone has potential contacts. For example, someone belongs to a Chamber of commerce. The sole proprietor entrepreneur and the decision maker for a large company often cross paths. One has a small startup niche business and uses a BlackBerry handset to keep organized. The other owns several businesses including one that has products in 6 thousand plus stores and could definitely use the security software BlackBerry offers. What the entrepreneur has experienced from BlackBerry as a handset owner will likely eventually come up in conversation.

BlackBerry's problem was that it didn't recognize that the customer base was shifting from enterprise IT leaders to consumers. It built the phones that it's traditional customers told them they wanted, but those traditionally customers were no longer making buying decisions.

Prior to the iPhone, smartphones were not consumer devices. BlackBerry has never been, and never will be, a consumer electronics company like Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[TgeekB]

BlackBerry's problem was that it didn't recognize that the customer base was shifting from enterprise IT leaders to consumers. It built the phones that it's traditional customers told them they wanted, but those traditionally customers were no longer making buying decisions.

Prior to the iPhone, smartphones were not consumer devices. BlackBerry has never been, and never will be, a consumer electronics company like Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Absolutely!

[conite]

This should be carved in the gravestone of Blackberry.

BBMo had a number of surveys of KEYone owners to come up with what changes people wanted in a KEY².

Sifting through chaotic forums like Crackberry does not provide meaningful statistics.

The two fatal blows were:

1) Consumers and developers had already selected the two winning ecosystems by 2009.

2) By the time BlackBerry Android came in 2015, enterprise had already completed the shift to Apple and Samsung, and the keyboard was long forgotten by the vast majority.

The epithet for BlackBerry's device brand was written in 2007. Don't kid yourself. It took 6 years for BlackBerry to respond to the iPhone - an eternity in tech.

[bb9900user2018]

I get what you are talking about ( I saw people in this board defending and "ideologizing" the pitiful DTEKs - I mean the 50 and 60) but in reality only a fraction of those ever purchasing BB Mobile products ever came here, so the influence of CB fanboys / volunteer OEM spokespeople are certainly exaggerated

I believe CB gets 1 million UIPs every month, not an insignificant amount.

Posted via CB10

[WES51]

BBMo had a number of surveys of KEYone owners to come up with what changes people wanted in a KEY².

Sifting through chaotic forums like Crackberry does not provide meaningful statistics.

Obviously. As the confirmed by the outcome?

[conite]

Obviously. As the confirmed by the outcome?

They put in a bokeh camera with optical zoom, more processing power, more memory & storage, and bigger matte keys.

They also corrected the signal issue that users were having on some networks/bands in some areas.

[Bbnivende]

My local Telus store just put up a working LE demo model. Very decent phone. I have no doubt that this phone will satisfy the vast majority of PKB lovers.

If I was TCL , I would make just one Keyboard model and do it well.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yes, analytics and market research is important, especially for a large company. However, is also important for a company to interact with the customer base. It is about PR. It doesn't take much but leaves an impression for the world to see in the public sphere. In interactions, even if an answer is "no" it is better than a cold shoulder.
In our business I have learned a lot from our customers. It is impossible to take everyone's suggestions, or even most of them, but they are the ones that are buying our products so they shouldn't be rebuffed and completely ignored. The customers are not primarily the handset buyers anymore, obviously. But they were at one point. Furthermore, everyone has potential contacts. For example, someone belongs to a Chamber of commerce. The sole proprietor entrepreneur and the decision maker for a large company often cross paths. One has a small startup niche business and uses a BlackBerry handset to keep organized. The other owns several businesses including one that has products in 6 thousand plus stores and could definitely use the security software BlackBerry offers. What the entrepreneur has experienced from BlackBerry as a handset owner will likely eventually come up in conversation.

How many public statements as you’re ascribing to do you see made by the Android/iOS flagship Proprietary and Licensed OEMs regarding similar issues or problems?

Carriers are the only “customers” TCL and BBMo have been talking with since that’s actual business TCL is pursuing long-term. From things I’ve read about TCL along with appliance branding, it feels it’s time for it’s brand instead of paying for someone else’s like Alcatel or BlackBerry anymore. It’s going to let the carriers deal with consumer perceptions and infrastructure needs like all the OEMs do.

Do you also expect the OEMs patrol Android Central or iMore to see trends? Of course not.

[Bbnivende]

Chuck, I bet that Alcatel sticks around for the branding of cheap phones.

[conite]

Chuck, I bet that Alcatel sticks around for the branding of cheap phones.

For sure.

[Invictus0]

Personally, I believe in trying to "save" BlackBerry by going to Android, we accepted a cure worse than the disease. Other than the PKB, everything that made a BlackBerry a BlackBerry is long gone.

My KEYone in no way feels like a BlackBerry. It's just an Android phone with a PKB. BB10 is the last BlackBerry OS. The Droid Berry Frankenstein is little more than an interesting experiment as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather mourn the death of BB10 than pretend it lives on in the reanimated monster that is BlackBerry Android.

Posted with my trusty Z10

It feels like they got 99.9% of the way there and then stopped, unfortunately that remaining 0.01% would have tied it all together. I understand there are things with Android that they couldn't change but BlackBerry Launcher simply having Hub integration would have done wonders for productivity and flow.

Instead we got amazing productivity tools that were completely brought down by Android's limitation (which have improved since then to some extent).

[Chuck Finley69]

Chuck, I bet that Alcatel sticks around for the branding of cheap phones.

That’s what I originally thought. But the only TCL branded phones I’ve seen were Alcatel original, restocked with the same phone, just TCL brand instead. Both TCL models were inexpensive prepaid.

When I see Alcatel online, still have complete lineup. Bla1ze had posted link about the Alcatel license expiration in 3-4 years.

Like the BBMo licensing, tariffs and such, TCL may have accelerated this rebranding to cut expenses everywhere possible ahead of schedule.

[Invictus0]

That’s what I originally thought. But the only TCL branded phones I’ve seen were Alcatel original, restocked with the same phone, just TCL brand instead. Both TCL models were inexpensive prepaid.

When I see Alcatel online, still have complete lineup. Bla1ze had posted link about the Alcatel license expiration in 3-4 years.

Like the BBMo licensing, tariffs and such, TCL may have accelerated this rebranding to cut expenses everywhere possible ahead of schedule.

They announced new Alcatel devices at IFA so the brand will likely stick around for a few more years at least. If the TCL brand takes off for phones I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually merge it.

[Chuck Finley69]

They announced new Alcatel devices at IFA so the brand will likely stick around for a few more years at least. If the TCL brand takes off for phones I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually merge it.

My point was simply that Alcatel is being positioned as mid-tier or entry-level, it’s both and same thing with TCL hardware. If you go into stores, identical hardware is being sold under either brand for prepaid $25-$50 out the door. Both are shown as mid-tier and flagship online and in events. They’re being merged as we speak. I suspect carriers are partly choosing which brand in transition period timeline based on existing inventory and wholesale pricing.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The biggest mistake any company would ever make is listen to most if not all feedback and opinions in an uncontrolled environment such as CrackBerry or any other forum. Research and statistical analysis companies setup controls and sample requirements for minimum size and bias to deliver accurate, indicative useful data. That’s definitely not on any uncontrolled Internet venue.

I don't know....

When I came here in 2007 there were a few calling for BlackBerry to move away from Java and BBOS. They could see how while iOS wasn't as feature rich as BBOS was in 2007, that iOS could grow. Java would limit BlackBerry and eventually keep cause them to fall behind.

I was always shocked when they bought QNX.... I just assumed that BlackBerry's R&D was already working on something.

[duncan86]

I hope there is a Key3. I didn't get a Key2 but only because my Key1 continues to soldier on. Best phone I've ever owned!

[conite]

I was always shocked when they bought QNX.... I just assumed that BlackBerry's R&D was already working on something.

And even WITH QNX, it took them 3.5 years to get a smartphone to market.

[Chuck Finley69]

I don't know....

When I came here in 2007 there were a few calling for BlackBerry to move away from Java and BBOS. They could see how while iOS wasn't as feature rich as BBOS was in 2007, that iOS could grow. Java would limit BlackBerry and eventually keep cause them to fall behind.

I was always shocked when they bought QNX.... I just assumed that BlackBerry's R&D was already working on something.

I guess what I’m saying is that I wouldn’t use CB as the basis for the decision. If you want to start actual statistical research for whatever CB forums report either positive or negative, great. For all the reasons I listed, CB or similar isn’t accurate representative data. I expect BB listened back then as now, for ideas to explore.... but I expect proper research was done and is now.... unfortunately the results aren’t favorable to our preferences

[FrankSiedler]

hopefully, hopefully a KEY3 is coming!!!

[Tim Heard]

hopefully, hopefully a KEY3 is coming!!!

I think that if one were coming, we'd all know about it by now.