[AhabSnake]

What are they (Samsung and other OEMs) doing? They are succeeding by:

1. Listening to the market
2. Making products that the market wants
3. Making those products available in all markets, and
4. Actually selling them.....

The market isn't asking for it, it's samsung dictating what the market should buy and like sheep people fall for it, just like the iphones.

[Gene Fells]

The market isn't asking for it, it's samsung dictating what the market should buy and like sheep people fall for it, just like the iphones.

To borrow a quote from Flying High: "Surely you can't be serious"?

What is the market asking for then?

[Chuck Finley69]

What are they (Samsung and other OEMs) doing? They are succeeding by:

1. Listening to the market
2. Making products that the market wants
3. Making those products available in all markets, and
4. Actually selling them.....

In all fairness to BlackBerry Mobile, BlackBerry and many of the other third party OEMs, Apple, Google and Microsoft have the economic resources to benchmark, sell and support proprietary hardware. Third party OEMs have struggled to maintain the economic resources and profits. There’s only two or three conglomerates that have the economic resources to license mobile OS and successfully produce mobile phones or tablets profitably.

[Gene Fells]

In all fairness to BlackBerry Mobile, BlackBerry and many of the other third party OEMs, Apple, Google and Microsoft have the economic resources to benchmark, sell and support proprietary hardware. Third party OEMs have struggled to maintain the economic resources and profits. There’s only two or three conglomerates that have the economic resources to license mobile OS and successfully produce mobile phones or tablets profitably.

My comment was in response to the statement:

"What is Samsung doing, aside from producing nothing but shiny glass-back slabs?"


It's fairly obvious to most observers that Samsung and multiple other OEMs are doing exactly what is necessary to firstly, determine the needs of the market and then provide that product.

Are BBmo doing the same? Market response to their products would clearly indicate that the demand is minimal. I am an elderly male and therefore I am not the customers they need to attract. They need to attract younger users who can see absolute benefits in using their products over using the current offerings "boring slabs".

My son is a 17 and in his final year of school. He has used Windows mobile 8 / 8.1 / 10, Android and now IOS. His number one preference is Windows mobile, but he can no longer use it. He now uses IOS both on iphone and tablet. IOS is not the best OS but the 2 devices sync together in ways that benefit him use case. He uses the tablet with pen and the ipads are far superior for note taking compared with its only opposition of samsung.

He has tried my classic and has tried the keyone. He does not like them because of reduced screen real estate from the PKB always being there. He is not against a PKB; in fact, he would like to use one but only if it came in a Priv format where the keyboard could be deployed when deemed necessary.

In Asia, where I live, the first thing that is checked by others when one purchases a phone is the picture quality from the camera. That picture quality is not the RAW image, it is merely the rendered JPG generated from the in-phone JPG engine. The JPG output of the keyone was acceptable in many conditions, but the key 2 was a massive disappointment.

Sure the user can snap in RAW and edit later to get a better result. Sure the user can use manual settings to drive the camera to capture a superior image by different metering etc. The question is; Will they? 95% of users of modern smartphones would not have any idea what the difference was between ISO and spot metering and would never have heard of the acronym "RAW". Therefore the phone manufacturer should do this work for them. Prepare a camera that generates a decent result in auto mode in the large majority of conditions.

Apple have done this for years. Samsung have also done this for years. As well as making Boring Slabs, these successful OEMs understand their market and what the market demands are. Chinese OEMs have also watched and learned that lesson.

Fuji and Olympus cameras have been renowned for years as having the best out of camera JPG images. Both also use their own external editing software to convert the RAW images into JPG using the same algorithms that the in camera processing uses. Fuji sensors are Sony and Olympus sensors are both Sony and Panasonic. Interestingly, both Sony and Panasonic cameras generate different JPG images from the same sensors. Both these companies spend the money to ensure their JPG reputation remains intact.

BBmo have totally failed in this area. Would improvements to the camera output, improved their sales? Sure, if they were on the shelves in the first instance. The facts are that I have never seen a key device in Asia. I have seen one Keyone in Australia in a shop and that was a dummy display model. With the failure / return rate of Key devices, a grey market purchase (the only option for many) is a highly risky proposition.

[dubengeldu]

(also otherpost)
...
If all goes towards media streaming- the isp s know- then this has implications on screenbrightness as well
As the network streaming uninterrupted highquality
Fast with as least batteryrequirements aspossible

Itisntjust scrensize
Ithink thisis pretty specific already

5g streaming withallits implications


But thereis sthelse. GPU based Ai like tensorflow derivatives steering apps and (!)security and notjust batteryconsumption or cpu core details memory access details


these are my
W
I
L
D
L
Y
Bold guesses


5g streaming (w all implic.) x gpu ai app handling (w all implic)

Inallofthis thecustomers want their actual beloved apps,clouds,messengers, mailservers, all as actual quicker uncomplicated nomatterhow but swift





Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

My comment was in response to the statement:

"What is Samsung doing, aside from producing nothing but shiny glass-back slabs?"


It's fairly obvious to most observers that Samsung and multiple other OEMs are doing exactly what is necessary to firstly, determine the needs of the market and then provide that product.

Are BBmo doing the same? Market response to their products would clearly indicate that the demand is minimal. I am an elderly male and therefore I am not the customers they need to attract. They need to attract younger users who can see absolute benefits in using their products over using the current offerings "boring slabs".

My son is a 17 and in his final year of school. He has used Windows mobile 8 / 8.1 / 10, Android and now IOS. His number one preference is Windows mobile, but he can no longer use it. He now uses IOS both on iphone and tablet. IOS is not the best OS but the 2 devices sync together in ways that benefit him use case. He uses the tablet with pen and the ipads are far superior for note taking compared with its only opposition of samsung.

He has tried my classic and has tried the keyone. He does not like them because of reduced screen real estate from the PKB always being there. He is not against a PKB; in fact, he would like to use one but only if it came in a Priv format where the keyboard could be deployed when deemed necessary.

In Asia, where I live, the first thing that is checked by others when one purchases a phone is the picture quality from the camera. That picture quality is not the RAW image, it is merely the rendered JPG generated from the in-phone JPG engine. The JPG output of the keyone was acceptable in many conditions, but the key 2 was a massive disappointment.

Sure the user can snap in RAW and edit later to get a better result. Sure the user can use manual settings to drive the camera to capture a superior image by different metering etc. The question is; Will they? 95% of users of modern smartphones would not have any idea what the difference was between ISO and spot metering and would never have heard of the acronym "RAW". Therefore the phone manufacturer should do this work for them. Prepare a camera that generates a decent result in auto mode in the large majority of conditions.

Apple have done this for years. Samsung have also done this for years. As well as making Boring Slabs, these successful OEMs understand their market and what the market demands are. Chinese OEMs have also watched and learned that lesson.

Fuji and Olympus cameras have been renowned for years as having the best out of camera JPG images. Both also use their own external editing software to convert the RAW images into JPG using the same algorithms that the in camera processing uses. Fuji sensors are Sony and Olympus sensors are both Sony and Panasonic. Interestingly, both Sony and Panasonic cameras generate different JPG images from the same sensors. Both these companies spend the money to ensure their JPG reputation remains intact.

BBmo have totally failed in this area. Would improvements to the camera output, improved their sales? Sure, if they were on the shelves in the first instance. The facts are that I have never seen a key device in Asia. I have seen one Keyone in Australia in a shop and that was a dummy display model. With the failure / return rate of Key devices, a grey market purchase (the only option for many) is a highly risky proposition.

The proprietary and third party OEMs produce what’s demanded that generates profits. The simplest and easiest path wins since profits are ultimately all that matter...

[prplhze2000]

The marketing was good but not used enough. catchy videos but it cost $$$ to push them.

I thin TCL is recognizing sales in industry are slowing. K2 was simply priced too high for what it was, Hence why LE outsold the K2. theyve kept inventory tight so probably still made a profit.

hard to move when carriers dont carry product.

[the_boon]

theyve kept inventory tight so probably still made a profit.

Well in that case, a KEY3 should be a given, as in 100% guaranteed if they not only didn't lose money on the 2's but even made a profit

[Smokeaire]

Well in that case, a KEY3 should be a given, as in 100% guaranteed if they not only didn't lose money on the 2's but even made a profit

I would go for a KEY3. I did learn my lesson with the Key², I wouldn't pre-order it, just wait for the shake out cruise review posts to roll in. Once burned (pkb issues). I might very well pre-order a key3LE though.

[the_boon]

I would go for a KEY3. I did learn my lesson with the Key², I wouldn't pre-order it, just wait for the shake out cruise review posts to roll in. Once burned (pkb issues). I might very well pre-order a key3LE though.

I would hope that by now, TCL can provide us with a reliable capacitive PKB at launch, on all units, in all variants and colors.

[bb10adopter111]

I would hope that by now, TCL can provide us with a reliable capacitive PKB at launch, on all units, in all variants and colors.

I'm sure they "can" do that, but the question is whether it makes sense to manufacture and stock all variants and colors for a niche device. Distribution for low volumes is very expensive on a per unit basis.

Manufacturing a bunch of small batches and distributing a handful of each device to every brick and mortar location and online store for a world-wide, single-day launch would be very expensive and would likely not be a profitable move. The big players can operate that way because they have economies of scale for distribution.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[the_boon]

I'm sure they "can" do that, but the question is whether it makes sense to manufacture and stock all variants and colors for a niche device. Distribution for low volumes is very expensive on a per unit basis.

Manufacturing a bunch of small batches and distributing a handful of each device to every brick and mortar location and online store for a world-wide, single-day launch would be very expensive and would likely not be a profitable move. The big players can operate that way because they have economies of scale for distribution.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Ok, I didn't mean that I cared if there are as many variants as there were so far, just that anything that ends up in a retailers shelf at launch is as reliable as units that are produced months later, as they should be.

[AhabSnake]

To borrow a quote from Flying High: "Surely you can't be serious"?

What is the market asking for then?

How many percentage of people actually do research or sit there asking themselves what do they need in a phone, what is a phone all about, and really looking into the features, the design, build, call quality etc.. the reality is most don't think, they see an add, it looks cool, they see their friends buying something, they walk into a store and see al lthis imagery , and specs that sound nice and prices and being swayed by the sales staff etc..

[conite]

How many percentage of people actually do research or sit there asking themselves what do they need in a phone, what is a phone all about, and really looking into the features, the design, build, call quality etc.. the reality is most don't think, they see an add, it looks cool, they see their friends buying something, they walk into a store and see al lthis imagery , and specs that sound nice and prices and being swayed by the sales staff etc..

The fact is, almost any Android/iOS smartphone can do essentially everything.

It really does come down to style, preference, and prestige.

And who's to judge there is anything wrong with that? Samsung arguably makes the best hardware out there right now - it's not for me, but I do understand the appeal.

[the_boon]

Samsung arguably makes the best hardware out there right now

Combined with the most annoying digital assistant!

[Gene Fells]

How many percentage of people actually do research or sit there asking themselves what do they need in a phone, what is a phone all about, and really looking into the features, the design, build, call quality etc.. the reality is most don't think, they see an add, it looks cool, they see their friends buying something, they walk into a store and see al lthis imagery , and specs that sound nice and prices and being swayed by the sales staff etc..

I think the vast majority know what they want in a device. Those requirements include social media, large amounts of content consumption and the ability to take and share quality images. One of the biggest marketing slogans in the mirrorless camera market is "the best camera is the one you have with you". This paradigm has done significant damage to the DSLR market for a number of years and will have more effects as smaller cameras become more capable. Of course, that same paradigm can damage mirrorless cameras and that is already happening with smart phones. Why carry a separate camera when a phone can do more than one job.

Most people actually do think what they need in a phone. If their main use in content consumption, the last thing they want is a PKB robbing value screen real estate. Younger customers are driving the changes that are now leading the market trends. They refuse to watch conventional media, littered with ads that destroy any continuity in a show. They refuse to be dictated to on when to watch something, decided by some programming executive.

They watch youtube with ad blockers enabled. They use encrypted chat apps and many are now using VPN 24/7 to ensure they have some level of privacy. Many use social media for their news sources. Many use social media for businesses. The prominence of facebook business pages in Thailand alone, far out ways the numbers of business websites. Some are using their own group servers for secured, private chats with friends.

Use case example: A student goes to senior school or university. All text books are now electronic and available on institution system drives. What method is best to take notes on the fly? Should they print pages before each class? Should they use a phone with a PKB or VKB? Should they use a chromebook? Should they use a PC or Mac laptop?

Surely the best method is to mark up these text books as they follow classes and / or annotate on top of shared notes that they have accessed from other students or teachers. What does this job best? Definitely not a blackberry phone of any description. Ipads are the best by far. I am not a fan of anything apple, but they have "listened" to the market and "provided" what was desired.

PDFs, JPGs, one note files are all interchanged between students, by any number of chat apps. Worst case, they will use a phone camera to take snapshots of pages and share them. If the camera is good enough, these can easily be enlarged to A4 and used in onenote with pen to write all over and mark up as necessary. Onenote sync immediately and files can be shared instantly via public folders on multiple cloud drives. Onenote is one of many that can complete this task.

The marketing of both apple and samsung is strong, but it is the cross platform ecosystems that are driving younger people's decisions when purchasing. Sure, there will always be those who could not care what the specs are and just want a piece of pretty jewelry. That is what Apple stores are for; one can visit, spend lots of money and pay homage to the Semi Deity all in one swift visit. Coming soon is the apple card to make donations all that easier....

As I have said in other posts, I am a fan of BB. I like the simplicity of function over prettiness. Unfortunately I am in the minority. I can see clearly why a Key device fails to receive any interest from younger consumers. To them it is an antique technology similar to DVDs (maybe even VHS / BETA).

In my own Son's words, "if it was a priv form factor I would be very interested".

[Bbnivende]

I think the vast majority know what they want in a device. Those requirements include social media, large amounts of content consumption and the ability to take and share quality images. One of the biggest marketing slogans in the mirrorless camera market is "the best camera is the one you have with you". This paradigm has done significant damage to the DSLR market for a number of years and will have more effects as smaller cameras become more capable. Of course, that same paradigm can damage mirrorless cameras and that is already happening with smart phones. Why carry a separate camera when a phone can do more than one job.

Most people actually do think what they need in a phone. If their main use in content consumption, the last thing they want is a PKB robbing value screen real estate. Younger customers are driving the changes that are now leading the market trends. They refuse to watch conventional media, littered with ads that destroy any continuity in a show. They refuse to be dictated to on when to watch something, decided by some programming executive.

They watch youtube with ad blockers enabled. They use encrypted chat apps and many are now using VPN 24/7 to ensure they have some level of privacy. Many use social media for their news sources. Many use social media for businesses. The prominence of facebook business pages in Thailand alone, far out ways the numbers of business websites. Some are using their own group servers for secured, private chats with friends.

Use case example: A student goes to senior school or university. All text books are now electronic and available on institution system drives. What method is best to take notes on the fly? Should they print pages before each class? Should they use a phone with a PKB or VKB? Should they use a chromebook? Should they use a PC or Mac laptop?

Surely the best method is to mark up these text books as they follow classes and / or annotate on top of shared notes that they have accessed from other students or teachers. What does this job best? Definitely not a blackberry phone of any description. Ipads are the best by far. I am not a fan of anything apple, but they have "listened" to the market and "provided" what was desired.

PDFs, JPGs, one note files are all interchanged between students, by any number of chat apps. Worst case, they will use a phone camera to take snapshots of pages and share them. If the camera is good enough, these can easily be enlarged to A4 and used in onenote with pen to write all over and mark up as necessary. Onenote sync immediately and files can be shared instantly via public folders on multiple cloud drives. Onenote is one of many that can complete this task.

The marketing of both apple and samsung is strong, but it is the cross platform ecosystems that are driving younger people's decisions when purchasing. Sure, there will always be those who could not care what the specs are and just want a piece of pretty jewelry. That is what Apple stores are for; one can visit, spend lots of money and pay homage to the Semi Deity all in one swift visit. Coming soon is the apple card to make donations all that easier....

As I have said in other posts, I am a fan of BB. I like the simplicity of function over prettiness. Unfortunately I am in the minority. I can see clearly why a Key device fails to receive any interest from younger consumers. To them it is an antique technology similar to DVDs (maybe even VHS / BETA).

In my own Son's words, "if it was a priv form factor I would be very interested".

I have been in Apple store to get a phone repaired - while you wait. Strange! I know.

[Gene Fells]

I have been in Apple store to get a phone repaired - while you wait. Strange! I know.

Hopefully you looked up and admired the cathedral like structures and lighting

[ECBomb]

Man, I really want to get a Key2 silver! Lack of stock and lack of 2nd hand units are killing me. Then there's the people who are still asking for an arm and a leg for their used units.

Really hope a Key3 comes through. They can keep everything the same except a better camera and remove the back, home, and menu buttons.

[RK_BB]

Man, I really want to get a Key2 silver! Lack of stock and lack of 2nd hand units are killing me. Then there's the people who are still asking for an arm and a leg for their used units.

Really hope a Key3 comes through. They can keep everything the same except a better camera and remove the back, home, and menu buttons.

You can have my K2 black; mint condition, original box. PRD # 63825-003.

PM me if interested.

[nevilleadaniels]

If I'm not mistaken the K2 was only released last year so I wouldn't expect a K3 until next year. I don't think there's enough pkb users to release a new version every 12 months, two years upgrade cycle for a new device seems about right but this is only my opinion and don't wish to upset anyone; -)

I think you are spot on there. Most people are on 2 year contracts on mid-range phones and can't if you have converted to 3-year contracts on high-end phones Samsung Galaxy S10 and iPhone X and up are prime examples.
It would be unwise for TCL to bring out a new phone every year at the moment is unwise bearing in mind that even Alcatel only sells a maximum of 3.8 million pounds a year.

This presumes of course that TCL BlackBerry is included in the Alcatel number phones moved.

Knowing government's they would want to keep the figures absolutely secret as to how much is being purchased by them.

IPhone just has CIA written all over it.
Android is at least open and we can check on things to see if there's anything hidden.

Although BlackBerry is Canadian much of its operations are in Silicon Valley California.

[dubengeldu]

IPhone just has CIA written all over it.
Android is at least open and we can check on things to see if there's anything hidden.

Although BlackBerry is Canadian much of its operations are in Silicon Valley California.

Hahaha. Cia?!?! Thefffff.. haha. If you worry about intel. Bad news. Anything digital is under control.

A
N
Y


There are secret industrial standards
Hideous softwarelayers
Secretive powerline standards
Ridiculous radio protocols
Replaced hardware on intelcoma filmed pw

Anything
Digital
Is
Under
Control


Its a matter of who else canread it

Its how
Y
O
U
Are not an equal citizen
You arelike


Children that must be controlled, granting you roadblocks here and there but
Anything digital is under control


Apple is a homo enterprise thatmeans they must care for their persecuted lifestyle people. There is a tick more safety

Blackberry is probably like verizon morelike satanic beast need money but hate control of anyone so comply but dont like to

The neutrals that guard their interest are rebellious too

But you


Y
O
U
R

Role inthis
Is


...


Smashwords.com/books/view/552210


Posted via CB10

[Tim Heard]

^^^

Somebody tell me how twelve year olds find their way into a BlackBerry fan forums.

C'mon folks...

[Chuck Finley69]

Hahaha. Cia?!?! Thefffff.. haha. If you worry about intel. Bad news. Anything digital is under control.

A
N
Y


There are secret industrial standards
Hideous softwarelayers
Secretive powerline standards
Ridiculous radio protocols
Replaced hardware on intelcoma filmed pw

Anything
Digital
Is
Under
Control


Its a matter of who else canread it

Its how
Y
O
U
Are not an equal citizen
You arelike


Children that must be controlled, granting you roadblocks here and there but
Anything digital is under control


Apple is a homo enterprise thatmeans they must care for their persecuted lifestyle people. There is a tick more safety

Blackberry is probably like verizon morelike satanic beast need money but hate control of anyone so comply but dont like to

The neutrals that guard their interest are rebellious too

But you


Y
O
U
R

Role inthis
Is


...


Smashwords.com/books/view/552210


Posted via CB10

Your BB10 PKB seems to have gone EOL before the OS itself...

[conite]

Hahaha. Cia?!?! Thefffff.. haha. If you worry about intel. Bad news. Anything digital is under control.

A
N
Y


There are secret industrial standards
Hideous softwarelayers
Secretive powerline standards
Ridiculous radio protocols
Replaced hardware on intelcoma filmed pw

Anything
Digital
Is
Under
Control


Its a matter of who else canread it

Its how
Y
O
U
Are not an equal citizen
You arelike


Children that must be controlled, granting you roadblocks here and there but
Anything digital is under control


Apple is a homo enterprise thatmeans they must care for their persecuted lifestyle people. There is a tick more safety

Blackberry is probably like verizon morelike satanic beast need money but hate control of anyone so comply but dont like to

The neutrals that guard their interest are rebellious too

But you


Y
O
U
R

Role inthis
Is


...


Smashwords.com/books/view/552210


Posted via CB10