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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Well Chuck, we can chase our tales all night on financial speculation, it would be a waste of time and there are umpteen threads on the subject with many self proclaimed Guru's! The simple point and I mean simple, was regardless of financial minutia speculation and panic exaggerations, we are owed 1 OS upgrade! Period! I can't make this any simpler! Let us see where the chips fall.
    Agreed for those of you with Key2 and Key2 LE hardware. My two KEYones are owed nothing at this point.


    I believe Playbook owners are waiting for an upgrade as well.....
    yybenedb likes this.
    07-09-19 10:02 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Assuming Pie gets rolled out in Aug then I would think Beta would open up this month, the same goes if the rollout is planned for September.
    They don't necessarily have to have a beta program. Based on last year's, I think it's actually rather pointless.
    07-09-19 10:05 PM
  3. Crusader03's Avatar
    Agreed


    I believe Playbook owners are waiting for an upgrade as well.....
    Hahaha, yes they are! Let us hope we don't suffer the same fate! And if we do, so be it. Cheers,
    07-09-19 10:06 PM
  4. RK_BB's Avatar
    They don't necessarily have to have a beta program. Based on last year's, I think it's actually rather pointless.
    OK. Do you recall if the OS patch before Oreo rolled out had any script indications for an upcoming upgrade?
    Vistaus likes this.
    07-09-19 10:08 PM
  5. Crusader03's Avatar
    Assuming Pie gets rolled out in Aug then I would think Beta would open up this month, the same goes if the rollout is planned for September.
    I believe that for our K1's they also had a patch OS upgrade before OREO implementation. So yes, I would expect to see the same at the very least.

    PS - I had a Rogers phone at the time, so might be different.

    Sent from Damien's Blackberry Key2
    Last edited by Crusader03; 07-09-19 at 10:35 PM.
    07-09-19 10:11 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    OK. Do you recall if the OS patch before Oreo rolled out had any script indications for an upcoming upgrade?
    There was nothing special about it.
    Vistaus likes this.
    07-09-19 10:12 PM
  7. DeLongo's Avatar
    Can you post a screen shot of the response? Thanks,
    I am sorry I already deleted the e-mail and it was in Dutch anyway. If all members on this forum submit the same question to BB they might get the message.
    07-10-19 01:43 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    I am sorry I already deleted the e-mail and it was in Dutch anyway. If all members on this forum submit the same question to BB they might get the message.
    If 100 people sent in the same question, you'd get 100 different answers.
    Vistaus likes this.
    07-10-19 06:38 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    They don't necessarily have to have a beta program. Based on last year's, I think it's actually rather pointless.
    ?

    Last year they had the KEY2 to work out "issues" with.... I suspect that went a long way towards making the Oreo update for the KEYone "smoother".

    While I know that for the most part, PIE is a very stable product after a year, and it's been used on a number of products with the same chipsets as the KEY2 and KEY2 LE. But I doubt BBMo would risk releasing PIE to production units without some sort of beta. It's not like BlackBerry and BBMo have huge teams of in house testers.

    Reality is we should have seen something by now... But BlackBerry, TCL and even the app developers that post here, are treating it like it's some top secret project.

    It's pure speculation, but I can think of only one reason to keep PIE a secret at this point...
    Vistaus and John Albert like this.
    07-10-19 07:56 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    ?

    Last year they had the KEY2 to work out "issues" with.... I suspect that went a long way towards making the Oreo update for the KEYone "smoother".

    While I know that for the most part, PIE is a very stable product after a year, and it's been used on a number of products with the same chipsets as the KEY2 and KEY2 LE. But I doubt BBMo would risk releasing PIE to production units without some sort of beta. It's not like BlackBerry and BBMo have huge teams of in house testers.

    Reality is we should have seen something by now... But BlackBerry, TCL and even the app developers that post here, are treating it like it's some top secret project.

    It's pure speculation, but I can think of only one reason to keep PIE a secret at this point...
    Last year's beta program was more of a mini-soak test than anything else. The same builds that were released in the beta, came out as unaltered production builds.

    Pretty sure we are all just talking to ourselves. If I was ever looking for something to cut out of the budget, that would be my first thing.
    07-10-19 08:38 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Last year's beta program was more of a mini-soak test than anything else. The same builds that were released in the beta, came out as unaltered production builds.
    Yes... but don't you think KEY2 helped BlackBerry and BBMO to work out a few bugs?

    Too be honest, I think they would have been better off to have released OREO on the KEYone earlier, that might have made the KEY2 launch a little better.
    07-10-19 08:44 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Yes... but don't you think KEY2 helped BlackBerry and BBMO to work out a few bugs?

    Too be honest, I think they would have been better off to have released OREO on the KEYone earlier, that might have made the KEY2 launch a little better.
    Hard to say what kind of overlap in development there would have been. The KEY² certainly did not have a beta program.

    I think bringing Oreo to a pre-Oreo device is a very different animal from bringing Oreo to a new launch device.
    07-10-19 08:47 AM
  13. Vistaus's Avatar
    And at $649, BBMo is barely alive. What is your point?

    As far as Pie goes, I wouldn't expect it until August. After that, I'd be concerned - although more about the future of BBMo than me getting the update.

    My Nokia has Pie, and I couldn't give a flying fox fart.
    No no no. Conite never gets concerned, no matter how bad things are looking (after August) ;-)
    07-10-19 11:54 AM
  14. Vistaus's Avatar
    It's different now, as customers want the world for free. Companies can't afford to bend over backwards.

    Look at the TCL A1 - a smartphone for $24.99. How much is in the tank for excellent after-sales support?

    Most companies not named Apple or Samsung are selling devices at $2 to $20 profit/unit.

    Go drop $1000 to $1500 on an iPhone and they will be happy to give you the royal treatment.
    Wait, wut? 25 a pop? They must be losing a ton of money on that thing.
    07-10-19 11:56 AM
  15. IceCreamPlz's Avatar
    Wait, wut? 25 a pop? They must be losing a ton of money on that thing.
    This is the fallacy of cost-based pricing. Sophisticated organizations do not do this. They run value-added pricing models.

    I put no weight in arguments that BlackBerry Mobile cannot afford to put better components in devices without driving the cost up.

    Only small companies and government/defense contractors do cost-plus pricing.

    A $25 phone sells for $25 because that's what the market will bear for a TCL/Alcatel device in a world dominated by flagships.
    07-10-19 12:51 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    This is the fallacy of cost-based pricing. Sophisticated organizations do not do this. They run value-added pricing models.

    I put no weight in arguments that BlackBerry Mobile cannot afford to put better components in devices without driving the cost up.

    Only small companies and government/defense contractors do cost-plus pricing.

    A $25 phone sells for $25 because that's what the market will bear for a TCL/Alcatel device in a world dominated by flagships.
    TCL also has a large range of devices and products to do that.

    BBMo has exactly 2 products, and is its own independent profit centre. You must use cost-based pricing in that case.
    coffee-turtle likes this.
    07-10-19 01:38 PM
  17. Platinum_2's Avatar
    My point is, if BBMo/TCL are not folding their tent, then they are still accountable for 1 upgrade in OS as per their Marketing statements. Straight forward and simple, no?
    If you have confused a legally enforceable agreement with a marketing brochure, then you have a high probability of being disappointed should Pie not arrive to the K2.
    07-10-19 01:53 PM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    This is the fallacy of cost-based pricing. Sophisticated organizations do not do this. They run value-added pricing models.

    I put no weight in arguments that BlackBerry Mobile cannot afford to put better components in devices without driving the cost up.

    Only small companies and government/defense contractors do cost-plus pricing.

    A $25 phone sells for $25 because that's what the market will bear for a TCL/Alcatel device in a world dominated by flagships.
    Still at some level you do have to sell products for more than they cost you. A company has to make a profit.... somehow.

    Maybe TCL is taking a loss on this phone, in order to buy marketshare in the US market. Or maybe they are being supported in this endeavor by other means... Some weird US government subsidy for low cost smartphones? Or possibly the motherland needs a way into the US and they are pulling Huawei's backing and putting it into TCL?

    Or just maybe it's a locked phone that only works on a designated MVNO.... which seems to be the case.
    07-10-19 01:54 PM
  19. RK_BB's Avatar
    Yesterday I submitted a question via the BB Support Center app when Android Pie would be available for the Key2.

    Today I received an e-mail with the reply that they are sorry to disappoint us but there is no date for an Android upgrade for the Key2.
    If 100 people sent in the same question, you'd get 100 different answers.
    Just called @BlackBerry Mobile to ask the same only to be told thaty it is not up to them, rather it is up to Google....LOL, not only these CSR are clueless they do not even understand the basics. Pencil pushers dare I say....
    07-10-19 02:26 PM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Just called @BlackBerry Mobile to ask the same only to be told thaty it is not up to them, rather it is up to Google....LOL, not only these CSR are clueless they do not even understand the basics. Pencil pushers dare I say....
    Doesn't matter if they are in India or the heartland of the USA... most have no clue what the product you are talking about is, other than what the screen says. Maybe if you had a real issue and got sent up to a hire tier of support, you might find someone who actually knows what a KEY2 is. But they'd still be out of the loop when it comes to business decisions... and that's what PIE is.
    Vistaus and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-10-19 02:45 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Still at some level you do have to sell products for more than they cost you. A company has to make a profit.... somehow.

    Maybe TCL is taking a loss on this phone, in order to buy marketshare in the US market. Or maybe they are being supported in this endeavor by other means... Some weird US government subsidy for low cost smartphones? Or possibly the motherland needs a way into the US and they are pulling Huawei's backing and putting it into TCL?

    Or just maybe it's a locked phone that only works on a designated MVNO.... which seems to be the case.
    Cheap TCL branded hardware that i saw in store the other day were specifically MVNO branded and locked. Three different MVNOs if memory serves correctly.. LX and the A1 models. I mentioned in a different thread I started...
    07-10-19 03:23 PM
  22. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    How about an online petition.........................lol
    07-14-19 03:34 PM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    How about an online petition.........................lol
    yes lol... those days are past.

    Think better results would come from "bombing" their social network pages.... but bottom line they've already made the decision and nothing is going to change it. Just have to wait and see what it was.
    RK_BB and Vistaus like this.
    07-15-19 09:06 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    TCL also has a large range of devices and products to do that.

    BBMo has exactly 2 products, and is its own independent profit centre. You must use cost-based pricing in that case.
    Having a different division for BlackBerry and Alcatel only made sense when they thought they would sell to Enterprise customers through carriers.

    All Android OEM’s have to meet Google’s standards for security patching . To the extent TCL used BlackBerry, that is just a cost of doing business.

    The higher costs associated with branding etc are a form of marketing expense. The problem here is that the branding expense is unreasonably high when amortized through the sales of so few phones sold.

    A TCL PKB phone could still be profitable. They should just licence the keyboard design .

    The inability of TCL and BlackBerry to work together in order to make a good all touch phone for sale at a reasonable price to be sold by USA carriers was the tipping point.
    07-15-19 09:46 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Having a different division for BlackBerry and Alcatel only made sense when they thought they would sell to Enterprise customers through carriers.

    All Android OEM’s have to meet Google’s standards for security patching . To the extent TCL used BlackBerry, that is just a cost of doing business.

    The higher costs associated with branding etc are a form of marketing expense. The problem here is that the branding expense is unreasonably high when amortized through the sales of so few phones sold.

    A TCL PKB phone could still be profitable. They should just licence the keyboard design .

    The inability of TCL and BlackBerry to work together in order to make a good all touch phone for sale at a reasonable price to be sold by USA carriers was the tipping point.
    Not to say I don't agree with some of your points, I'm not sure what this has to do with cost-based pricing for the 2 KEY² devices.
    Vistaus likes this.
    07-15-19 09:53 AM
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