[Chuck Finley69]

Most likely the latter.

The biggest reason I bought the BE KEYone and not the Key2 LE was it was cheaper and I was certain I wasn't getting PIE so no expectations for the extra money.

I will probably get the Key2 LE eventually if PIE is eventually upgraded. I always maintain low expectations.

[Chuck Finley69]

Seems like it was purposely written to be vague.

I suppose the answer to the question in the OP is a definite "no" ?

Even that could be vague. Are we talking early or "BlackBerry early" which of course is further diluted since "BlackBerry Time" is now in the hands of BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile license. I wonder if that was part of the agreement, to recognize and support the special BlackBerry Time continuum...

[RK_BB]

The biggest reason I bought the BE KEYone and not the Key2 LE was it was cheaper and I was certain I wasn't getting PIE so no expectations for the extra money.

I will probably get the Key2 LE eventually if PIE is eventually upgraded. I always maintain low expectations.

I hear you, though hard to do when @BlackBerry Mobile officials confirm the matter when they present the product to the world.

In some cases, unless compellingly explained, this unlawful practice is called "misleading".

[Chuck Finley69]

I hear you, though hard to do when @BlackBerry Mobile officials confirm the matter when they present the product to the world.

In some cases, unless compellingly explained, this unlawful practice is called "misleading".

Unfortunately, I find it applies to majority of the last 35 years of the mobile industry both OEMs and carriers. Statements and claims actually kept and delivered on are still the exception and not the norm.

[RK_BB]

Unfortunately, I find it applies to majority of the last 35 years of the mobile industry both OEMs and carriers. Statements and claims actually kept and delivered on are still the exception and not the norm.

Hopefully Google will find it important to regulate this information; after all, some of these brands are publicly traded...

[anon(10599419)]

I think a major anxiety many of us have regarding BlackBerry Mobile is that sales numbers have not been released for the Key2 or Key2 LE. When those are released, we'll have a better idea of BBMo's standing. If there's substantial growth from the KeyOne/Motion sales, it'll be a sign of good health and potential that BlackBerry handsets aren't going to disappear in the near future and a rationale for continued investment.

As someone who never owned a BlackBerry prior to purchasing a Key2 last year (my first phone was a Motorola Razr flip phone and then multiple iPhones up to the 6S) and had never used a physical keyboard on a phone before, I pray things are going better than many of us fear.

The potentially weak link here is BlackBerry Ltd.'s mobile division. If interest in their BlackBerry Secure software package from other consumer phone and IOT device manufacturers increases, BBMo has a high likelihood of survival. If not, the division will be neglected until it dies completely, causing BlackBerry-modified Android OS to disappear.

[anon(10387168)]

Unfortunately, I find it applies to majority of the last 35 years of the mobile industry both OEMs and carriers. Statements and claims actually kept and delivered on are still the exception and not the norm.

Has not been my experience since BBOS. My S4 was upgraded, my Galaxy Tab 2 was upgraded, my iPhone 4, 5 & 6 was upgraded, my BlackBerry K1 was upgraded. My experience will not by any means be unique. However, if BlackBerry were to renege on their promise/comitment, I certainly would turn my back on the brand! PKB be damned! We shall wait and see,

The response is ambiguous at best!

[anon(10387168)]

Yesterday I submitted a question via the BB Support Center app when Android Pie would be available for the Key2.

Today I received an e-mail with the reply that they are sorry to disappoint us but there is no date for an Android upgrade for the Key2.

Can you post a screen shot of the response? Thanks,

[IceCreamPlz]

Most likely the latter.

Even more "most likely," a customer-facing front line employee has no idea what corporate TechDev is working on. Probably no info has been communicated regarding a launch date internally outside of core employees working on the roadmap, some of whom might be internally NDA'd.

[Chuck Finley69]

Hopefully Google will find it important to regulate this information; after all, some of these brands are publicly traded...

Doesn't matter as these companies all have legions of lawyers to write the fine print and keep the clients inside the lines.

[Chuck Finley69]

Has not been my experience since BBOS. My S4 was upgraded, my Galaxy Tab 2 was upgraded, my iPhone 4, 5 & 6 was upgraded, my BlackBerry K1 was upgraded. My experience will not by any means be unique. However, if BlackBerry were to renege on their promise/comitment, I certainly would turn my back on the brand! PKB be damned! We shall wait and see,

The response is ambiguous at best!

You mention two industry participants and only few devices. There are many long known disappointments both of specific products and entire companies. BlackBerry Limited reneged on statements in the past and BlackBerry Mobile has already had minor issues. Corporations aren't moral compasses for society to look for inspiration. Their obligations are simply legally generating profits and other fiduciary duties to shareholders.

I'm merely stating that low expectations are the norm in any industry with low margins and cannibalizing of prospective customers.

[anon(10387168)]

You mention two industry participants and only few devices. There are many long known disappointments both of specific products and entire companies. BlackBerry Limited reneged on statements in the past and BlackBerry Mobile has already had minor issues. Corporations aren't moral compasses for society to look for inspiration. Their obligations are simply legally generating profits and other fiduciary duties to shareholders.

I'm merely stating that low expectations are the norm in any industry with low margins and cannibalizing of prospective customers.

We will agree to disagree. I for one do my best to hold Corporations Accountable, perhaps out of fashion, no matter! I worked in Corporate environments all my adult life in almost all capacities and ultimately in leadership. If you wish to give them a pass, so be it. I will not. Cheers Chuck,

[Chuck Finley69]

We will agree to disagree. I for one do my best to hold Corporations Accountable, perhaps out of fashion, no matter! I worked in Corporate environments all my adult life in almost all capacities and ultimately in leadership. If you wish to give them a pass, so be it. I will not. Cheers Chuck,

I believe in morals and ethics as humans but I don't assign human characteristics or behavior expectations to corporations entities. Seriously though, I'm also saying low expectations for corporations should always be the norm. It's the reason why the corporations with excellent quality and service have case studies written about them and set the high bar. We live in a price conscious society where the largest retailer on the earth peddles mediocre quality.

[anon(10387168)]

I believe in morals and ethics as humans but I don't assign human characteristics or behavior expectations to corporations entities. Seriously though, I'm also saying low expectations for corporations should always be the norm. It's the reason why the corporations with excellent quality and service have case studies written about them and set the high bar. We live in a price conscious society where the largest retailer on the earth peddles mediocre quality.

Chuck, your supreme court deemed Corporations as Entities! Maybe you forgot. Anyway, low expectations for anything just deludes the gene pool promoting stagnation and complacency. So, for all those that except the status quo and are enabling a lowering of the bar and expectations, please feel free to reap what you sow! The rest of us will buck the system from within and externally in order to ensure you're satisfied with your purchases and corporate promises. You're welcome,

[conite]

Chuck, your supreme court deemed Corporations as entities! Maybe you forgot. Anyway, low expectations for anything just deludes the gene pool promoting stagnation and complacency. So, for all those that except the status quo and are enabling a lowering of the bar and expectations, please feel free to reap what you sow! The rest of us will buck the system from within and externally in order to ensure you're satisfied with your purchases and corporate promises. You're welcome,

It's different now, as customers want the world for free. Companies can't afford to bend over backwards.

Look at the TCL A1 - a smartphone for $24.99. How much is in the tank for excellent after-sales support?

Most companies not named Apple or Samsung are selling devices at $2 to $20 profit/unit.

Go drop $1000 to $1500 on an iPhone and they will be happy to give you the royal treatment.

[anon(10387168)]

It's different now, as customers want the world for free. Companies can't afford to bend over backwards.

Look at the TCL A1 - a smartphone for $24.99. How much is in the tank for excellent after-sales support?

Most companies not named Apple or Samsung are selling devices at $2 to $20 profit/unit.

Only attitudes of complacency are different. All else is still the same. If we don't push the envelope, we risk living in mediocrity. Not for me. And a $649 US BlackBerry is, or should never be compared to a $24.99 piece of crap. We are still discussing BlackBerry here, right? PIE as I recall.

[conite]

Only attitudes of complacency are different. All else is still the same. If we don't push the envelope, we risk living in mediocrity. Not for me. And a $649 US BlackBerry is, or should never be compared to a $24.99 piece of crap. We are still discussing BlackBerry here, right? PIE as I recall.

And at $649, BBMo is barely alive. What is your point?

As far as Pie goes, I wouldn't expect it until August. After that, I'd be concerned - although more about the future of BBMo than me getting the update.

My Nokia has Pie, and I couldn't give a flying fox fart.

[anon(10387168)]

And at $649, BBMo is barely alive. What is your point?

I made mine. I don't really have time to understand yours. Good night,

[Chuck Finley69]

I guess my point was that with BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile, I've always had low expectations because they're not Apple, Google, Microsoft or any of the well capitalized Asian hardware OEMs that have conglomerate revenues to support their multiple business lines.

Since the days of the NTAP lawsuit 15 years ago, there's always been some level of risk in BlackBerry device ownership.

[conite]

I made mine. I don't really have time to understand yours. Good night,

I'm not sure what point you tried to make.

Are you suggesting that at $399 to $649 BBMo should have amassed a huge war chest in order to rise above mediocrity and service you as you feel you deserve?

[anon(10387168)]

I guess my point was that with BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile, I've always had low expectations because they're not Apple, Google, Microsoft or any of the well capitalized Asian hardware OEMs that have conglomerate revenues to support their multiple business lines.

Since the days of the NTAP lawsuit 15 years ago, there's always been some level of risk in BlackBerry device ownership.

Agreed. A risk we were all willing to take. My point is, if BBMo/TCL are not folding their tent, then they are still accountable for 1 upgrade in OS as per their Marketing statements. Straight forward and simple, no?

[conite]

Agreed. A risk we were all willing to take. My point is, if BBMo/TCL are not folding their tent, then they are still accountable for 1 upgrade in OS as per their Marketing statements. Straight forward and simple, no?

Agreed. It's just not panic time yet.

[Chuck Finley69]

Agreed. A risk we were all willing to take. My point is, if BBMo/TCL are not folding their tent, then they are still accountable for 1 upgrade in OS as per their Marketing statements. Straight forward and simple, no?

Unless the choice is resource limited. Such as Key3 running PIE and that being the primary differentiator with Key2 other than some minor spec updates. Obviously, I'm purely speculating, but I feel that BBMo and TCT are separate entities from TCL for a reason. Since the beginning, TCL has shown little economic support in comparison to it's overall corporate size relative to subsidiary TCT compared to other competitor OEM structures.

[RK_BB]

Agreed. It's just not panic time yet.

Assuming Pie gets rolled out in Aug then I would think Beta would open up this month, the same goes if the rollout is planned for September.

[anon(10387168)]

Unless the choice is resource limited. Such as Key3 running PIE and that being the primary differentiator with Key2 other than some minor spec updates. Obviously, I'm purely speculating, but I feel that BBMo and TCT are separate entities from TCL for a reason. Since the beginning, TCL has shown little economic support in comparison to it's overall corporate size relative to subsidiary TCT compared to other competitor OEM structures.

Well Chuck, we can chase our tales all night on financial speculation, it would be a waste of time and there are umpteen threads on the subject with many self proclaimed Guru's! The simple point and I mean simple, was regardless of financial minutia speculation and panic exaggerations, we are owed 1 OS upgrade! Period! I can't make this any simpler! Let us see where the chips fall.