12-11-18 06:23 PM
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  1. Fred Wu's Avatar
    I am using non-blackberry phone now and subscribed the hub+ service. With Hub my Hotmail account is no longer receive push email, and emails deleted inside hub are not deleted on the server.

    When i was using key1, it was the Gmail having these issues, but now Gmail seems OK but deletion still delays on the server.

    However, another exchange account with office365 for work works perfectly fine.
    11-02-18 02:15 AM
  2. moosbb's Avatar
    I am using non-blackberry phone now and subscribed the hub+ service. With Hub my Hotmail account is no longer receive push email, and emails deleted inside hub are not deleted on the server.

    When i was using key1, it was the Gmail having these issues, but now Gmail seems OK but deletion still delays on the server.

    However, another exchange account with office365 for work works perfectly fine.
    Apparently you'll have to wait next year to see that fixed
    11-02-18 04:57 AM
  3. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Apparently you'll have to wait next year to see that fixed
    Just an update. I reset my phone due to other issues. Then this time, the hotmail is working properly. Emails are now being pushed immediately, and deletion in Hub also deleted emails on the server. However, delay still happens for Gmail as in my Key1, I think it only happens when hub is doing sync manually as I turned off the interval sync for Gmail.

    Wonderying why Gmail has no push option, but "push if supported".
    11-02-18 06:56 PM
  4. max-bb's Avatar
    Exchange Active Sync and IMAP are fundamentally different protocols.

    In EAS, push is a required feature, and everything you can do regularly can be done in push*.
    In IMAP, push is an optional feature for servers and many do not support it. It is also somewhat limited, such as we can only monitor one folder per connection. IMAP is the protocol available to us for using Gmail.

    If you turn syncing to manual, you won't get updates about folders other than your INBOX, and deletions and flag updates may be delayed until you next get an incoming email.

    As the developer, I personally recommend keeping your IMAP sync interval to 30 minutes or so, even if your server does support push, so the rest of the syncing can be done.

    Note: for EAS, we have seen networks configured in such a way that it doesn't allow us to hold the network connection open, breaking push frequently.
    Fred Wu likes this.
    11-07-18 05:12 PM
  5. RK_BB's Avatar
    Exchange Active Sync and IMAP are fundamentally different protocols.

    In EAS, push is a required feature, and everything you can do regularly can be done in push*.
    In IMAP, push is an optional feature for servers and many do not support it. It is also somewhat limited, such as we can only monitor one folder per connection. IMAP is the protocol available to us for using Gmail.

    If you turn syncing to manual, you won't get updates about folders other than your INBOX, and deletions and flag updates may be delayed until you next get an incoming email.

    As the developer, I personally recommend keeping your IMAP sync interval to 30 minutes or so, even if your server does support push, so the rest of the syncing can be done.

    Note: for EAS, we have seen networks configured in such a way that it doesn't allow us to hold the network connection open, breaking push frequently.
    Thanks for your continued support here!

    Question: this has nothing to do with the issue of navigating away from Hub without waiting for the Undo Delay to complete after deleting multiple emails in one deletion action. Correct?

    Also, if you look at post # 370 here (link below), you will see a suggested solution to refreshing Hub which will solve the IMAP issue you described above.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...l#post13305445
    11-07-18 05:30 PM
  6. max-bb's Avatar
    No: navigating away has nothing to do with what we receive from the server.

    Opening hub already does a (light) refresh if it has been a few minutes since you last opened it, causing recent information to be looked for. (For IMAP, this runs through all the folders, looking for remote changes in your last few days worth of messages). This is the kind of refresh also driven by the sync interval.

    The refresh option in the menu does a "Heavy refresh", which synchronizes older messages which we don't expect to change often. This is normally done every four hours or so.
    11-07-18 05:35 PM
  7. RK_BB's Avatar
    Opening hub already does a (light) refresh if it has been a few minutes since you last opened it, causing recent information to be looked for. (For IMAP, this runs through all the folders, looking for remote changes in your last few days worth of messages). This is the kind of refresh also driven by the sync interval.
    So if the user wants to have a " light refresh" every time they access Hub they need to close it (Back key) every time they are done using it rather than simply navigating away from it. Correct?
    11-07-18 05:49 PM
  8. max-bb's Avatar
    That does appear to be the case: launching it from the icon in launcher causes a light refresh; choosing it from recents just brings the screen back.
    11-08-18 11:47 AM
  9. RK_BB's Avatar
    That does appear to be the case: launching it from the icon in launcher causes a light refresh; choosing it from recents just brings the screen back.
    Launcher icon and perhaps keyboard shortcut / Convenience Key as well?
    11-08-18 11:51 AM
  10. max-bb's Avatar
    I would think so, since they probably result in a launch command.
    11-08-18 11:55 AM
  11. Fred Wu's Avatar
    Exchange Active Sync and IMAP are fundamentally different protocols.

    In EAS, push is a required feature, and everything you can do regularly can be done in push*.
    In IMAP, push is an optional feature for servers and many do not support it. It is also somewhat limited, such as we can only monitor one folder per connection. IMAP is the protocol available to us for using Gmail.

    If you turn syncing to manual, you won't get updates about folders other than your INBOX, and deletions and flag updates may be delayed until you next get an incoming email.

    As the developer, I personally recommend keeping your IMAP sync interval to 30 minutes or so, even if your server does support push, so the rest of the syncing can be done.

    Note: for EAS, we have seen networks configured in such a way that it doesn't allow us to hold the network connection open, breaking push frequently.
    This is a very informative answer. Thanks for taking time to explain this.
    11-19-18 03:14 AM
  12. RK_BB's Avatar
    No ETA. I wouldn't expect it this year.
    This is becoming such a nuisance, especially now that it seems the Undo Delay had been elongated.

    Is there any chance you guys can expedite this up the priority list?

    Unless I invoke Hub search and only then move to delete my emails there is really no telling if my messages were deleted off the server unless I wait until the Undo Delay is over.

    While there is a workaround, deleting messages should not require so many taps, presses and diligent effort.

    I really don't know how most users manage their inbox and how come this is not receiving a higher order of priority after its been around since launch in 2015 and after I detailed reproduction steps for the team.

    Please don't get me wrong! I appreciate the continued development & communication and I am sure you guys are working within a constraint resources environment but with this one, please, it should be a given rather than an effort.

    Thank you!
    11-28-18 12:39 PM
  13. RK_BB's Avatar
    @LiamQ I narrowed it down even further:

    If you navigate away from Hub by way of going to a different app or the home screen the deleted messages stays in limbo (what I referred to as "unknown territory" in my analysis) but if you close Hub down and reopen it thereby allowing the app to go through the full refresh cycle (as opposed to the lite refresh that happens when the app is open) it looks like the deleted messages then gets picked up and properly sync to the server.

    With that said, it looks like it's a matter of allowing Hub to go through a full refresh cycle (as opposed to the lite one) even if it wasn't closed, otherwise, until that happen the deleted messages will stay in limbo.

    Come to think about, this issue magnified itself for me as soon as I moved from the KEYᵒⁿᵉ (Silver) to the KEY² simply because the KEY² has more RAM thereby allowing Hub to stay open in the background far longer than the KEYᵒⁿᵉ can as well as the KEY² has a Speed Key which promote app switching without closing.

    Resolution suggestion:

    1. When marking message for delete by long pressing them, grey out or italicize the deleted messages rather than throw them into limbo. These message won't be accessible by the user, just grayed out or italicized in the message list. Next time the user close Hub and reopen it these messages will be gone.

    2. When swiping to delete do not allow to swipe to delete another message before one is completed, that is went through the Undo Delay entirely.
    @max-bb
    Last edited by RK_BB; 11-29-18 at 11:16 AM.
    11-29-18 10:48 AM
  14. RK_BB's Avatar
    I narrowed it down even further:

    If you navigate away from Hub by way of going to a different app or the home screen the deleted messages stays in limbo (what I referred to as "unknown territory" in my analysis) but if you close Hub down and reopen it thereby allowing the app to go through the full refresh cycle (as opposed to the lite refresh that happens when the app is open) it looks like the deleted messages then gets picked up and properly sync to the server.

    With that said, it looks like it's a matter of allowing Hub to go through a full refresh cycle (as opposed to the lite one) even if it wasn't closed, otherwise, until that happen the deleted messages will stay in limbo.

    Come to think about, this issue magnified itself for me as soon as I moved from the KEYᵒⁿᵉ (Silver) to the KEY² simply because the KEY² has more RAM thereby allowing Hub to stay open in the background far longer than the KEYᵒⁿᵉ can as well as the KEY² has a Speed Key which promote app switching without closing.

    Resolution suggestion:

    1. When marking message for delete by long pressing them, grey out or italicize the deleted messages rather than throw them into limbo. These message won't be accessible by the user, just grayed out or italicized in the message list. Next time the user close Hub and reopen it these messages will be gone.

    2. When swiping to delete do not allow to swipe to delete another message before one is completed, that is went through the Undo Delay entirely.
    @LiamQ @max-bb

    Scratch that out. These messages were never removed from the server.

    We are back to square one...
    11-29-18 12:31 PM
  15. RK_BB's Avatar
    With the help of @TheBond we found another workaround for this issue:

    1. Create a Custom View in Hub
    2. Open the newly created Custom View
    3. Delete as many emails as you like by selecting them and the hitting the PKB Back key
    4. Hit the Home key or navigate to a different app immediately
    5. Wait a second and Hub will re-open itself automatically (no matter where you are at) with the emails in question deleted both in Hub and on the server.
    @LiamQ @max-bb this shows that this phenomenon has something to do with message filtering.
    Last edited by RK_BB; 12-04-18 at 03:53 PM.
    12-02-18 10:45 PM
  16. TheBond's Avatar
    Do we have an ETA on this? This is really making me nuts.
    Yesterday I discovered I had around 25 emails that didn't delete from the server.

    Feeling less and less confident each day with such sync issues.
    12-06-18 04:08 PM
  17. RK_BB's Avatar
    Do we have an ETA on this? This is really making me nuts.
    Yesterday I discovered I had around 25 emails that didn't delete from the server.

    Feeling less and less confident each day with such sync issues.
    Same here....just wondering if syncing the Deleted folder might the cure for this?
    @LiamQ what do you think?
    12-06-18 04:10 PM
  18. LiamQ's Avatar
    Do we have an ETA on this? This is really making me nuts.
    Yesterday I discovered I had around 25 emails that didn't delete from the server.

    Feeling less and less confident each day with such sync issues.
    We've spent hours trying but have not been able to reproduce this.
    12-07-18 10:49 AM
  19. RK_BB's Avatar
    We've spent hours trying but have not been able to reproduce this.
    I am confused as in post # 123 you indicated the following, alluding to the fact there is more work to be done:

    No, we haven't had a chance to dig into the remaining case yet.
    While in a latter post you said that I should not be expecting it this year so are you now saying that you are unable to reproduce? I can reproduce this consistently:

    Simply delete multiple messages in any of the methods I described in post # 100 and immediately navigate away from Hub and you will see that your messages will go in limbo and won't get removed from the server.

    In order to find said messages tap the search or look at your Productivity Tab.
    12-07-18 11:01 AM
  20. LiamQ's Avatar
    While in a latter post you said that I should not be expecting it this year so are you now saying that you are unable to reproduce?
    Yes.
    12-07-18 12:29 PM
  21. RK_BB's Avatar
    Yes.
    In this case I will make a video that prove the case as I am determined that this is an existing bug which @TheBond and @Crusader03 experience as well.

    Just to clarify, this only apply when following the reproduction steps I described in post # 100 and then immediately navigating away from Hub by tapping the home key or going to a different app without waiting for the Undo Delay to complete.

    Also, when you try to reproduce make sure that your deleted items folder is NOT synced.

    Lastly, can you please elaborate as to what you mean by indicating that you have not had the time to look into the remaining portion of this bug and that we should not expect a fix before next year though?
    12-07-18 12:35 PM
  22. LiamQ's Avatar
    Lastly, can you please elaborate as to what you mean by indicating that you have not had the time to look into the remaining portion of this bug and that we should not expect a fix before next year though?
    At the time that I wrote that, we had not investigated the issue beyond the fix that you validated in post # 108. I was trying to set expectations so you wouldn't feel obliged to ask about it with each update.

    We did look into it again recently but haven't been able to reproduce it.

    A video may help.
    12-07-18 12:42 PM
  23. RK_BB's Avatar
    At the time that I wrote that, we had not investigated the issue beyond the fix that you validated in post # 108. I was trying to set expectations so you wouldn't feel obliged to ask about it with each update.

    We did look into it again recently but haven't been able to reproduce it.

    A video may help.
    I just tested it with syncing my deleted items folder and that seem to fix the issue though after I hit the Back key to delete selected messages and navigate away from Hub without waiting for the Undo Delay to complete, Hub then re-launches itself to the foreground.

    I kindly ask that you try and reproduce this using any of the deletion methods described in post # 100 and then immediately navigate away from Hub without waiting for the Undo Delay to complete. Please do so while your Deleted items folder is NOT synced.

    Then please try again with your deleted items folder synced and you should see that though messages gets deleted properly, Hub then pops on the screen without invitation.

    I will produce a video.
    12-07-18 12:52 PM
  24. RK_BB's Avatar
    @LiamQ is it possible that a newer OS build version makes a difference in the behavior of this phenomenon?

    I just received ABK892 this morning; I am wondering if you were testing with the same version or not and whether the OS build has anything to do with that.
    12-07-18 01:02 PM
  25. LiamQ's Avatar
    @LiamQ is it possible that a newer OS build version makes a difference in the behavior of this phenomenon?
    Other than major version differences like Android 7.1 vs. 8.1, it's pretty unlikely that a newer OS build version would make a difference.
    12-07-18 01:08 PM
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