[RK_BB]

Today's change to BlackBerry Hub+ Services and subsequently Hub was mandated by Google and I ask:

What's next? What is the next item Google will mandate that will further cripple Hub, a centric app to the entire BlackBerry experience?

While @LiamQ and company found a workaround, it applies for BlackBerry devices only (and some Samsung with Android O and above) which makes Hub even less appealing to any other none BlackBerry device owners.

Today we saw the results of being led by Google first hand and once more, there is no telling what's next!

So now, enough ranting and let's focus on solutions:

I have mentioned it time and time again, BlackBerry must develop their own SMS and Phone app in order to be able to control their Hub & app suite integrations.

Building an SMS app is a serious undertaking for OEM but IMO at this point there is no choice if BlackBerry wants to be serious about being a software company which used to lead and now, are being led...

Today we saw how the might of Google, might affect your business....don't let that happen @BlackBerry Mobile

[Munchkinguy]

Yes, if I understand correctly, only the default SMS application will be able to access the SMS logs. So this should be further incentive for BlackBerry to make their own SMS application integrated into the Hub.

[RK_BB]

Yes, if I understand correctly, only the default SMS application will be able to access the SMS logs.

Even the default SMS app is inaccessible.

[JECE]

Link to source? Could this affect SMS Backup+?

[RK_BB]

Link to source? Could this affect SMS Backup+?

https://crackberry.com/hub-services-...-and-call-logs

[LiamQ]

While @LiamQ and company found a workaround, it applies for BlackBerry devices only (and some Samsung with Android O and above) which makes Hub even less appealing to any other none BlackBerry device owners.

The SMS workaround applies for all devices. The Call Log workaround is more hit and miss, but it does work on the Google Pixel, OnePlus 6, and Moto G5 Plus that we tested.

[Jake2826]

I'll say here what I said in the other HUB thread.

I think BlackBerry Mobile is going to have to start doing more OS level work on their devices with BlackBerry Ltd. They need to integrate more functions otherwise risk being a "me too" player in the Android space as far as software goes.

And if it is at all possible, (although probably not) get some dedicated RAM for the HUB on BlackBerry Mobile devices like BB10 has, so that its always running and you don't have to wait for it to load up. Bring back some of that flow.

[RK_BB]

Blaize - any idea if BlackBerry or Tcl is seeking an exception for BlackBerry Hub?

BlackBerry requested an exception. Google denied it.

This just makes me cringe! We used to rule!

[conite]

The SMS workaround applies for all devices. The Call Log workaround is more hit and miss, but it does work on the Google Pixel, OnePlus 6, and Moto G5 Plus that we tested.

Could you get around this by integrating an SMS client as part of the HUB?

[RK_BB]

@conite can you please clear some messages on your inbox? I need to send you a PM but your inbox is full

[anon(10387168)]

This is definitely something we can get behind as this speaks directly to the productivity aspect of our BlackBerry's.
Can the BlackBerry IM enterprise version "BlackBerry Conect" not be developed to substitute SMS?

[Fred Wu]

All my logs gone, Call, Messenger Lite, Reddit, Text, except Instagram and Wechat.

WeChat received messages are still there from 15 Feb, and same for Instagram.

As for WeChat, it has implemented hot-update through app itself, no need wait for playstore list, and may likely to be removed from playstore soon.

Is there anything to do with that? Then what about Instagram?

[LiamQ]

Could you get around this by integrating an SMS client as part of the HUB?

That could get us sent text messages on devices where the user chooses to make Hub the default SMS client. It wouldn't help at all for users who prefer a different SMS client or who just can't be bothered to switch from their default. It also wouldn't help at all with Call Logs.

It would also create extra certification risk for our hardware partners. When selling devices to carriers, the carriers might impose their lengthy SMS/MMS/RCS certification requirements on Hub.

[conite]

It would also create extra certification risk for our hardware partners. When selling devices to carriers, the carriers might impose their lengthy SMS/MMS/RCS certification requirements on Hub.

I've been reading about that. I now agree that making your own client would probably bring more issues than it solves.

[Munchkinguy]

That could get us sent text messages on devices where the user chooses to make Hub the default SMS client. It wouldn't help at all for users who prefer a different SMS client or who just can't be bothered to switch from their default. It also wouldn't help at all with Call Logs.

It would also create extra certification risk for our hardware partners. When selling devices to carriers, the carriers might impose their lengthy SMS/MMS/RCS certification requirements on Hub.

What if it were an add-on that you could download separately after buying the device, similar to how Textra can be downloaded to replace the default SMS app?

[bb10adopter111]

Today's change to BlackBerry Hub+ Services and subsequently Hub was mandated by Google and I ask:

What's next? What is the next item Google will mandate that will further cripple Hub, a centric app to the entire BlackBerry experience?

While @LiamQ and company found a workaround, it applies for BlackBerry devices only (and some Samsung with Android O and above) which makes Hub even less appealing to any other none BlackBerry device owners.

Today we saw the results of being led by Google first hand and once more, there is no telling what's next!

So now, enough ranting and let's focus on solutions:

I have mentioned it time and time again, BlackBerry must develop their own SMS and Phone app in order to be able to control their Hub & app suite integrations.

Building an SMS app is a serious undertaking for OEM but IMO at this point there is no choice if BlackBerry wants to be serious about being a software company which used to lead and now, are being led...

Today we saw how the might of Google, might affect your business....don't let that happen @BlackBerry Mobile

It's a lovely thought, but I don't think it will happen because there's simply not enough money in it for BlackBerry. The whole problem with the Android app model is that it's based on apps being free or almost free. That leads to lots of crappy apps from semi-pro developers. Unless BlackBerry can expect a return of $50m+, it doesn't make sense for them to bother. They have bigger fish to fry in other market segments than Android apps.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[anon(10562251)]

I've been reading about that. I now agree that making your own client would probably bring more issues than it solves.

Tell that to Samsung.

Unfortunately it seems this takes more effort than just an app or two, and BlackBerry seems either unable or unwilling to keep up. The HUB of today is almost identical to the version that released on the PRIV four years ago. Meanwhile, a new version of Android is released every year.

The only things that seem to be "breaking" on HUB, as usual, are the result of the rest of Android moving forward and BlackBerry being left behind.

[conite]

Tell that to Samsung.

Unfortunately it seems this takes more effort than just an app or two, and BlackBerry seems either unable or unwilling to keep up. The HUB of today is barely distinguishable from the version that released on the PRIV four years ago. Meanwhile, a new version of Android is released every year.

The only things that seem to be "breaking" on HUB, as usual, are the result of the rest of Android moving forward and BlackBerry being left behind.

What else is breaking on the HUB?

With regards to SMS, this was written by one of the original HUB development team leaders:

"It's actually very simple. Textra, Yaata and other third party apps don't have to comply to carrier requirements. SMS is something that almost every carrier on the planet has a huge requirements document for that you must comply to in order to ship, and almost every single one of them is different. Building an SMS app really isn't that difficult or costly, but the cost of doing it with with every carrier's requirements in mind is quite a large investment and requires a full team to read all the requirements docs, pull them apart and negotiate on some of them where they conflict across carriers or don't make sense, and then implement everything. Oh, and then you have to do carrier lab certification for it all.

Now combine that with the fact that there's not a ton of ways to have a 'differentiated' experience with SMS and do a ton of really unique things with it, and that Google has a perfectly fine SMS app which has passed carrier lab certification and shipped on several devices already. Would you want to take on that cost when someone else can instead? Google has a massive team, and we wanted to focus our team on the things that we could do uniquely or feel we could bring some value to.

No one really sees it, but the cost carriers impose on OEMs is massive and contain some of the most ridiculous requests (not to mention harmful to the overall user experience!) that I've ever seen. But at the end of the day that is the cost of doing business, and you need to accommodate for it."

[anon(10562251)]

What is breaking on the HUB?

With regards to SMs, this was written by one of the original HUB development team:

"
As for SMS integration - it depends on what exactly you are looking for here. Building SMS functionality directly into the Hub isn't something we're looking to do. It's a very costly investment for us from a development and testing perspective, will run us into a lot of 'certification' issues with carriers (leading to slower updates ), and just isn't something generally that we're going to be able to bring a ton of "value" to beyond what the ecosystem already does. Believe it or not, SMS isn't a simple thing to build. There are tons of differences for each of the individual carriers, etc. and a ton of different features that people expect with it. It would take us quite some time to get there. So we've sought today to leverage the massive ecosystem that is available in Google Play. There are a ton of really great SMS apps in there already that integrate very well (assuming the app uses the platform SMS database properly). This way you can pick your favorite SMS app and still get integration of the content into Hub. "

It started with various email and calendar compatibility bugs, some of which have never been resolved.

Next the HUB notification only generically opens apps instead of taking you directly to the relevant location.

And now, broken SMS and call logs (on most devices).

IMO, the conception of the HUB on Android needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. To put it in automotive terms a BlackBerry employee should understand: you can only patch a flat so many times before you need to replace the tire.

[conite]

It started with various email and calendar compatibility bugs, some of which have never been resolved.

Next the HUB notification only generically opens apps instead of taking you directly to the relevant location.

And now, broken SMS and call logs (on most devices).

IMO, the conception of the HUB on Android needs to be completely rebuilt from the ground up. To put it in automotive terms a BlackBerry employee should understand: you can only patch a flat so many times before you need to replace the tire.

It has been rebuilt. V2 is almost through beta.

[anon(10562251)]

It has been rebuilt. V2 is almost through beta.

Once in four years. And now, with even more functionality missing thanks to Google policy changes implemented in October 2018 and only now being forced on BlackBerry after the grace period has expired.

But anyway, nothing new here. Android keeps moving forward and the Hub is being left in the dust. Sometimes it seems BlackBerry itself is content to leave it there as well, even though publicly they suggest otherwise.

I hate to be a cynic but to me the "re-built" Hub is just window dressing to cover up the larger changes that are occurring, and other functions being removed. And perhaps that's all its intended to be. I'll have to re-evaluate my use of the Hub once the new version is released, and whether continuing to pay for it monthly makes any sense.

[drobbie]

Once in four years. And now, with even more functionality missing thanks to Google policy changes implemented in October 2018 and only now being forced on BlackBerry after the grace period has expired.

But anyway, nothing new here. Android keeps moving forward and the Hub is being left in the dust. Sometimes it seems BlackBerry itself is content to leave it there as well, even though publicly they suggest otherwise.

I hate to be a cynic but to me the "re-built" Hub is just window dressing to cover up the larger changes that are occurring, and other functions being removed. And perhaps that's all its intended to be. I'll have to re-evaluate my use of the Hub once the new version is released, and whether continuing to pay for it monthly makes any sense.

Mobile is not top of mind for BlackBerry. Chen has stated as much several times. Until this changes we can expect to lose more functionality.

[anon(10562251)]

Mobile is not top of mind for BlackBerry. Chen has stated as much several times. Until this changes we can expect to lose more functionality.

We are losing functionality because Android continues to evolve, while the HUB hobbles along behind, like an old car that leaves rusted pieces of itself strewn across the roadway and black smoke billowing from its exhaust pipe.

If this is what they call app development, it's time for this wreck to be put out to the scrap heap and be done with it.

[bb10adopter111]

It has been rebuilt. V2 is almost through beta.

I am happy to assume that the BlackBerry Android app team is highly competent and doing its best to improve the Hub+ Suite within the scope that BlackBerry's business objectives and Android's policies allow. My concern is that it won't be enough to make the Android Hub as useful as it needs to be to satisfy those of us coming from BB10. I appreciate the effort, but there's still too much friction for me in the Hub on Android.

At the end of the day, I want to quickly triage emails with one hand between accounts; write in plain white text on a black background with no frivolous controls like font and text color; use effortless, precise cursor control to edit, select, copy and paste text; and receive all my messages and notifications for my phone in a single location where I can always review the history.

Currently, I'd give the Android Hub a 4.5 on a scale of 1-10. Moreover, it seems that many of the issues are non-trivial problems due to Android policies. I'm just not sure how realistic it is to expect BlackBerry to solve many of them, unfortunately.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[RK_BB]

At the end of the day, I want to quickly triage emails with one hand between accounts; write in plain white text on a black background with no frivolous controls like font and text color; use effortless, precise cursor control to edit, select, copy and paste text; and receive all my messages and notifications for my phone in a single location where I can always review the history.

THIS!