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07-22-19 07:39 AM
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  1. Amaroni's Avatar
    The Company had entered into agreement with Blackberry Limited for providing licensing and software services w.e.f. July 1, 2017. Under the said agreement, the Company is required to pay a minimum guarantee royalty fee against which the company has received a demand of USD 4.29 million till 31st March 2019 out of which only USD 1.5 million paid. However, the management has disputed the payment of royalty on account of delay in launch of Blackberry handsets due to the fault on part of Blackberry and out of USD 4.29 million, USD 0.72 million has recognized royalty expense till 31st March 2019. The balance amount is under dispute and has not been recognized as expense during the period.
    07-14-19 04:14 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    The Company had entered into agreement with Blackberry Limited for providing licensing and software services w.e.f. July 1, 2017. Under the said agreement, the Company is required to pay a minimum guarantee royalty fee against which the company has received a demand of USD 4.29 million till 31st March 2019 out of which only USD 1.5 million paid. However, the management has disputed the payment of royalty on account of delay in launch of Blackberry handsets due to the fault on part of Blackberry and out of USD 4.29 million, USD 0.72 million has recognized royalty expense till 31st March 2019. The balance amount is under dispute and has not been recognized as expense during the period.
    Can you link to the original article so I can attempt to clean up the translation?

    Edit: I see the note to the Optiemus Mar 31st statements now. The source material itself is poorly translated.

    But I don't see anything strange here. The bottom line is the Optiemus didn't manage to sell many devices, and they are disputing the contract with regards to licencing fees.

    https://www.optiemus.com/images/OIL_Q4_REVISED.PDF
    Last edited by conite; 07-14-19 at 05:07 PM.
    07-14-19 04:29 PM
  3. John Albert's Avatar
    The Company had entered into agreement with Blackberry Limited for providing licensing and software services w.e.f. July 1, 2017. Under the said agreement, the Company is required to pay a minimum guarantee royalty fee against which the company has received a demand of USD 4.29 million till 31st March 2019 out of which only USD 1.5 million paid. However, the management has disputed the payment of royalty on account of delay in launch of Blackberry handsets due to the fault on part of Blackberry and out of USD 4.29 million, USD 0.72 million has recognized royalty expense till 31st March 2019. The balance amount is under dispute and has not been recognized as expense during the period.
    Is that from TCL financial sheet?
    07-14-19 04:40 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Is that from TCL financial sheet?
    Optiemus - quarter ending Mar 31st 2019.

    F/S note #7 .

    https://www.optiemus.com/images/OIL_Q4_REVISED.PDF
    07-14-19 05:01 PM
  5. John Albert's Avatar
    Yes found it!

    Optiemus Infracom Limited
    Reg. Office: K-20, IInd Floor, Lajpat Nagar Part - 2, New Delhi-110 024
    CIN: L64200DL1993PLC054086
    STATEMENT OF AUDITED STANDALONE FINANCIAL RESULTS FOR THE QUARTER AND YEAR ENDED ON
    31ST MARCH, 2019

    The Company had entered into agreement with Blackberry Limited for providing licensing and software services
    w.e.f. July 1, 2017. Under the said agreement, the Company is required to pay a minimum guarantee royalty fee
    against which the company has received a demand of USD 4.29 million till 31st March 2019 out of which only USD
    1.5 million paid. However, the management has disputed the payment of royalty on account of delay in launch
    of Blackberry handsets due to the fault on part of Blackberry and out of USD 4.29 million, USD 0.72 million has
    recognized royalty expense till 31st March 2019. The balance amount is under dispute and has not been
    recognized as expense during the period.

    https://www.optiemus.com/images/OIL_Q4_REVISED.PDF
    rarsen likes this.
    07-14-19 05:05 PM
  6. John Albert's Avatar
    How can they manufacture and distribute BlackBerry phones correctly when they don't know how to write BlackBerry name!
    07-14-19 05:09 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Bottom line appears to be that Optiemus was supposed to pay BlackBerry a minimum of $4.29 million in licencing fees to Mar 31st 2019, actually paid them $1.5 million, but feels they only should have paid them $720,000.

    Apparently they are blaming BlackBerry for some element of the delay to bring the Evolve to market.

    Sounds more of a "let's throw some **** and see what sticks" accounting exercise to save some money on a failed product.
    Last edited by conite; 07-14-19 at 05:27 PM.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    07-14-19 05:11 PM
  8. John Albert's Avatar
    Bottom line appears to be that Optiemus was supposed to pay BlackBerry a minimum of $4.29 million in licencing fees to Mar 31st 2019, actually paid them $1.5 million, but feels they only should have paid them $720,000.

    Apparently they are blaming BlackBerry for some element of the delay to bring the Evolve to market.

    Sounds more of a "let's throw some **** and see what sticks" accounting exercise to save some money on a failed product.
    Could those aforementioned dates be the same with TCL in terms of licensing contract materials?
    07-14-19 07:53 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Could those aforementioned dates be the same with TCL in terms of licensing contract materials?
    The TCL licence is 5 years, although nothing about the specific payment terms are public.
    07-14-19 08:02 PM
  10. the_boon's Avatar
    The TCL licence is 5 years, although nothing about the specific payment terms are public.
    Does the license being for 5 years oblige them to keep producing hardware for that period of time?

    Because if yes, they pretty much have to push out a KEY3 and KEY4
    07-14-19 08:30 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Does the license being for 5 years oblige them to keep producing hardware for that period of time?

    Because if yes, they pretty much have to push out a KEY3 and KEY4
    It likely only obligates them to pay some minimum set-dollar amount of licencing fees.
    07-14-19 08:33 PM
  12. Amaroni's Avatar
    Bottom line appears to be that Optiemus was supposed to pay BlackBerry a minimum of $4.29 million in licencing fees to Mar 31st 2019, actually paid them $1.5 million, but feels they only should have paid them $720,000.

    Apparently they are blaming BlackBerry for some element of the delay to bring the Evolve to market.

    Sounds more of a "let's throw some **** and see what sticks" accounting exercise to save some money on a failed product.
    Or there is some truth to the claim since the evolve X has never been released ?

    Regardless as the title of the post suggests "perhaps " this sheds some light on why the deal has fallen apart.

    The very fact that the source material mentions that Optiemus has received a demand for payment suggests the relationship is in trouble if not over ....
    John Albert likes this.
    07-15-19 12:47 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Regardless as the title of the post suggests "perhaps " this sheds some light on why the deal has fallen apart.
    ...
    Poor sales.... that's why it's fallen apart.

    I expect the same is true with TCL as well. While BBMo liked to say that sales were better than they expected, there is no way that was true. They didn't expect the Motion to flop or that enterprise would avoid them or that US Carriers would barely acknowledge them.

    It's why IF BlackBerry and TCL goes forward in some way... I doubt it will be with a continuation of BBMo (think that standalone division is dead). But there could be a KEY3 released and some altered partnership between TCL and BlackBerry. Just think going forward BlackBerry's involvement will be much smaller than it is now.
    John Albert likes this.
    07-15-19 07:21 AM
  14. Amaroni's Avatar
    in the absence of factual evidence no one can say with any conviction as to the cause of the breakdown between Optiemus and BlackBerry (Canada) ...otherwise we end up in the realms of he said ..she said ....right now the only thing I believe we can be certain of is that there is a demand , dispute and breakdown of a business relationship.

    does anyone know what the £0.72 million royalty payment relates to? how many handsets ?
    07-15-19 07:54 AM
  15. conite's Avatar

    does anyone know what the £0.72 million royalty payment relates to? how many handsets ?
    We don't know any details of the arrangement.

    But if sales were good, petty squabbles like this don't happen.
    07-15-19 08:20 AM
  16. Amaroni's Avatar
    when it comes to money everything is on the table including petty squabbles

    We will probably never know the real reason hence again why the title of the post says "perhaps "
    07-15-19 09:40 AM
  17. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    Anyone still hoping to see updates for the BBB100-7?
    07-15-19 12:16 PM
  18. John Albert's Avatar
    when it comes to money everything is on the table including petty squabbles

    We will probably never know the real reason hence again why the title of the post says "perhaps "
    If I ever have cancer, I hope you are the one who would deliver the news.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    07-15-19 12:57 PM
  19. Amaroni's Avatar
    If I ever have cancer, I hope you are the one who would deliver the news.
    Lets hope that never happens!
    Mecca EL likes this.
    07-15-19 02:15 PM
  20. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    Actually they are trying to get out of paying any fee's.
    07-15-19 02:28 PM
  21. Amaroni's Avatar
    Actually they are trying to get out of paying any fee's.
    They have already paid 1.5 million
    US dollars......
    07-15-19 02:37 PM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    They have already paid 1.5 million
    US dollars......
    Agree.... they are just trying to get out of paying the other $2.79 million owed to BlackBerry, and maybe even get back half of what they have paid in.

    Let's just how that Chen hadn't already counted on that $4.29 million....
    07-15-19 02:47 PM
  23. Amaroni's Avatar
    Agree.... they are just trying to get out of paying the other $2.79 million owed to BlackBerry, and maybe even get back half of what they have paid in.

    Let's just how that Chen hadn't already counted on that $4.29 million....
    Or we could " speculate " that part of the deal was that TCL would supply Optiemus dual SIM versions of the Key One and Two and because of "dismal" sales decided they didnt want to manufacture said devices thereby causing BlackBerry (Canada) to default on their agreement with Optiemus to arrange a supply of non manufactured Optiemus devices which would compliment the "VKB range" with a "PKB range" thereby enhancing the brand offering ....

    Of course we would be speculating ....
    07-15-19 03:10 PM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Or we could " speculate " that part of the deal was that TCL would supply Optiemus dual SIM versions of the Key One and Two and because of "dismal" sales decided they didnt want to manufacture said devices thereby causing BlackBerry (Canada) to default on their agreement with Optiemus to arrange a supply of non manufactured Optiemus devices which would compliment the "VKB range" with a "PKB range" thereby enhancing the brand offering ....

    Of course we would be speculating ....
    I think TCL involvement is a sublicensing agreement between TCL and Optiemus, and sales there probable count towards TCL original licensing agreement with BlackBerry. Optiemus only contribution to that $1.5 million might have been expected sales of the Evolve and Evolve X. But their $.79 Million claim is for actual units they have moved.

    If we knew how much BlackBerry get's per unit on licensing... might tell us how many units have been moved. If they get $25 a unit that's about 30K units.

    But yes, just speculating on that.

    Just like we are only speculating that PT BB Merah Putih is not longer working with BlackBerry... there has been no official announcement that they are gone.
    07-15-19 03:42 PM
  25. John Albert's Avatar
    I think this problem is related to TCL in a way or another.
    TCl also could face a harder situation if both Optiemus and Merah Putin are no longer in that licensing deal, because that means lower and lower sold units in the future.

    What amazes me more that BBMobile is still very active on social media, but very inert on all other fronts.
    07-15-19 03:53 PM
43 12

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