04-24-18 02:44 PM
141 12345 ...
tools
  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    My bad.
    They only used BlackBerry for longer because here the phones are brought upfront so people tend to keep their devices for longer.


    ClassicSQC100-1/10.3.3.2163
    And because BIS made them cheaper in the long run.... no BIS, no pricing advantage, and then BB10 was not what consumers wanted.... they brand has faltered there, like most markets.
    03-01-18 09:14 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Samsung does very well in India... they own 60% in the premium segment, which is for devices priced above Rs 30,000 ($450). And OnePlus has staked their claim to a portion of the premium market there too. Strange Apple isn't doing that well there, even though many of those cheap local devices are clones of an Apple device.

    Back five years ago, BlackBerry had a little over 30% marketshare, and Nokia was right behind them. Here they are both trying to recapture a portion of that, both with very different strategies. Nokia has a $20 feature phone up to a soon to be released $600 premium phone with devices all in-between.
    It is the 85 dollar Android go phone that looks to be really good for that market.

    Back in the day BlackBerry was popular because of battery life and Bis.
    03-01-18 09:46 AM
  3. AmritD's Avatar
    And because BIS made them cheaper in the long run.... no BIS, no pricing advantage, and then BB10 was not what consumers wanted.... they brand has faltered there, like most markets.
    Actually in India, BIS made them very expensive.
    Normal 2G data packs for 2GB for a month was ₹98 (Back in the day, 2GB was A LOT and 2G worked very well for people's needs)
    And BIS was ₹399 a month for BBM+Email+Browsing.
    People would complaint about it very often.
    Because you effectively ended up paying ₹10K over a 2 year period without calls that is!

    ClassicSQC100-1/10.3.3.2163
    03-01-18 10:14 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Fair enough absolutely.
    But the DTEK50 was 50% over the competition. And didn't have a fingerprint sensor either.
    If I were to compare the price of the DTEK60 to the 1+3T, again 50% over its price. (The 3T was 30K, the DTEK60 was 47K)
    The market will absorb the 25% premium given the BlackBerry Brand name IMO. But definitely not 50%.

    ClassicSQC100-1/10.3.3.2163
    Something I do not understand. All BlackBerry branded devices have the same BlackBerry Secure features so how will they be able make a go of it in India? It maybe an import duty or tax issue that favours local production.

    I do not see the BlackBerry fee as a percentage cost but rather a fixed unit cost. If TCL moves up into premium they can make make more money because the manufacturing costs do not rise in lockstep with the ASP. The tariff percentage lowers as they move up market.

    By the way, Conite, the goal for TCL is 3 to 5 % of the premium market. One analyst thought that would be 10 million units.

    BlackBerry Canada wants OEM’s to use their secure soft ware. It might be cheaper for TCL to sell an all touch without the BlackBerry branding. Think of an Alcatel 6 or TCL 6 running BlackBerry Secure. TCL sells TV’s under their own brand name using Roku Android software.
    03-01-18 10:30 AM
  5. conite's Avatar

    By the way, Conite, the goal for TCL is 3 to 5 % of the premium market. One analyst thought that would be 10 million units.

    BlackBerry Canada wants OEM’s to use their secure soft ware. It might be cheaper for TCL to sell an all touch without the BlackBerry branding. Think of an Alcatel 6 or TCL 6 running BlackBerry Secure. TCL sells TV’s under their own brand name using Roku Android software.
    The security and the branding go hand in hand. If you don't want the security, you don't need the brand - they have Alcatel for that.

    The market share of the premium market depends on how BlackBerry Mobile defines the premium market. The bottom line is that they are targeting under 5 million.
    03-01-18 10:37 AM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The security and the branding go hand in hand. If you don't want the security, you don't need the brand - they have Alcatel for that.

    The market share of the premium market depends on how BlackBerry Mobile defines the premium market. The bottom line is that they are targeting under 5 million.
    They need the BlackBerry brand for the PKB, not so much for all touch. I guess you do not agree with what BlackBerry is trying to convince other OEM’s to buy - BlackBerry Secure.

    You must have inside knowledge because no one else that I have read says 5 mill.

    TCL seems to have missed a golden opportunity with the Motion. They needed to sell a phone that USA carriers could sell at an attractive price. In 2019 Nokia will be coming to the USA.
    Qorax likes this.
    03-01-18 11:06 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    They need the BlackBerry brand for the PKB, not so much for all touch. I guess you do not agree with what BlackBerry is trying to convince other OEM’s to buy - BlackBerry Secure.
    Too confusing for the BlackBerry brand to have some BlackBerry devices "secure" and others "not secure".

    There is no reason why TCL couldn't licence the keyboard for its TCL or Alcatel brands.

    " The ZTE Lockdown featuring BlackBerry-Secure" would be an example of a how BlackBerry would licence BlackBerry Secure to ZTE.
    03-01-18 11:12 AM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Too confusing for the BlackBerry brand to have some devices "secure" and others "not secure".

    There is no reason why TCL couldn't licence the keyboard for its TCL or Alcatel brands.
    All BlackBerry brands would be secure. An TCL branded phone can be secure too with BlackBerry Secure. This is similar in concept to TCL Roku TV’s.

    BlackBerry Canada needs to lower their take on all touch devices. A lower tariff is better than no tariff.

    I am not sure that BlackBerry would licence their Keyboard or that consumers would buy a PKB without the BlackBerry brand.
    03-01-18 11:22 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    All BlackBerry brands would be secure. An TCL branded phone can be secure too with BlackBerry Secure. This is similar in concept to TCL Roku TV’s.

    BlackBerry Canada needs to lower their take on all touch devices. A lower tariff is better than no tariff.

    I am not sure that BlackBerry would licence their Keyboard or that consumers would buy a PKB without the BlackBerry brand.
    I'm not sure if we're on the same page here.

    BlackBerry-Brand licencing gives you (TCL for example) the name and BlackBerry Android.

    BlackBerry-Secure licencing gives you (NTD for example) just BlackBerry Android to use on your own brand.

    There is no third option.
    Last edited by conite; 03-01-18 at 01:22 PM.
    03-01-18 11:29 AM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    We are on the same page. It depends on licensing fees. An all touch TCL phone with lower fees could offer more value in other areas.

    The all-touch smart phone market is not unlike the TV market. You start with lower cost - high value products and slowly make your way up market. You can not fool the public with by tacking on a brand name .

    In NA, Samsung and iPhone have almost all of the enterprise market. BlackBerry would have to be that good, be at that enterprise only price, and have those channels.

    For BlackBerry all-touch, they need to make a premium phone to call it premium. A good camera, good processor, 18:9, great screen, good battery performance, quality construction and most recent OS. I say think like Nokia.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 03-01-18 at 01:06 PM.
    03-01-18 11:53 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    We are on the same page. It depends on licensing fees. An all touch TCL phone with lower fees could offer more value in other areas.

    The all-touch smart phone market is not unlike the TV market. You start with lower cost - high value products and slowly make your way up market. You can not fool the public with by tacking on a brand name .

    In NA, Samsung and iPhone have almost all of the enterprise market. BlackBerry would have to be that good, be at that enterprise only price, and have those channels.

    For BlackBerry all-touch, they need to make a premium phone to call it premium. A good camera, good processor, 18:9, great screen, good battery performance, quality construction and most recent OS. I say think like Nokia.
    So TCL, with its far lower economies of scale, and its licencing fee to BlackBerry, should go head to head with the flagship phones from Apple and Samsung?! That won't last long.

    Nah, the current strategy is the best imo. Offer decent performance, in a sturdy design, at a price that won't break the bank.
    03-01-18 01:32 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    We are on the same page. It depends on licensing fees. An all touch TCL phone with lower fees could offer more value in other areas.

    The all-touch smart phone market is not unlike the TV market. You start with lower cost - high value products and slowly make your way up market. You can not fool the public with by tacking on a brand name .

    In NA, Samsung and iPhone have almost all of the enterprise market. BlackBerry would have to be that good, be at that enterprise only price, and have those channels.

    For BlackBerry all-touch, they need to make a premium phone to call it premium. A good camera, good processor, 18:9, great screen, good battery performance, quality construction and most recent OS. I say think like Nokia.
    It's not going to happen....

    I get you want BBMo to build better devices and that you feel to be premium you have to build premium (not just charge a premium). But that just won't work with the additional cost associated with these products. Little up front in cost get's multiplied out on the back end.

    Nokia has $500 Million in investment dollars behind them, helping to "buy" marketshare for now, that has allowed them to do a much better job of "bringing back" their brand. Doesn't mean that long term they are making money....
    03-01-18 01:45 PM
  13. ardakca's Avatar
    It's not going to happen....

    I get you want BBMo to build better devices and that you feel to be premium you have to build premium (not just charge a premium). But that just won't work with the additional cost associated with these products. Little up front in cost get's multiplied out on the back end.

    Nokia has $500 Million in investment dollars behind them, helping to "buy" marketshare for now, that has allowed them to do a much better job of "bringing back" their brand. Doesn't mean that long term they are making money....
    Naah. You are mostly wrong. I remember you bashing pkb android device aka mercury aka keyone. Telling it won't happen and it won't work.

    HMD built the Nokia brand from zero. TCL was already producing phones. That is different. You have to take the phone production assets into account.
    03-01-18 02:06 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Naah. You are mostly wrong. I remember you bashing pkb android device aka mercury aka keyone. Telling it won't happen and it won't work.

    HMD built the Nokia brand from zero. TCL was already producing phones. That is different. You have to take the phone production assets into account.
    The Essential phone tried to deliver on this premium premise, for far less money. It seems to have failed miserably.

    It's a swath of cheap phones that have driven HMD sales. Time will tell if any of that converts to actual profits.
    03-01-18 02:09 PM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It is Conite who suggests that the Motion is aimed Enterprise but he says they can not compete. There is really no point in making an uncompetitive BlackBerry branded all touch device when they even TCL can under cut them.

    They need to be at least the level of last years LG or Huawei which would still be premium enough.
    03-01-18 02:15 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    It is Conite who suggests that the Motion is aimed St Enterprise but he says they can not compete. There is really no point in making an uncompetitive all touch device when they even TCL can under cut them.
    How do you figure that a TCL Alcatel device licencing Blackberry Secure can out-compete a TCL Blackberry Mobile device?
    03-01-18 02:18 PM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Same security but cheaper depends on BlackBerry licensing fee.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 03-01-18 at 02:35 PM.
    03-01-18 02:20 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Same security but cheaper depends on BlackBerry licensing.
    Why would BlackBerry make it cheaper? If anything I think they would make it more expensive.
    03-01-18 02:24 PM
  19. ardakca's Avatar
    BlackBerry name alone is far more premium than Alcatel.

    I don't support the idea of an all touch if it doesn't appeal a niche.

    I see there is space for premium specced <_5 " displays. Only Sony makes those phones. And Sonys are not that compact. It's surprising why Samsung doesn't make a 5 inch S series. With the infinity display that device would be an one-handed beast. But samsung doesn't need the niche.
    03-01-18 02:29 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    It's surprising why Samsung doesn't make a 5 inch S series.
    Extensive market research?
    03-01-18 02:55 PM
  21. ardakca's Avatar
    Extensive market research?
    That or they see no point. Forcing S series to consumers.
    03-01-18 02:59 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    That or they see no point. Forcing S series to consumers.
    What does that even mean?

    If they felt there was a sub-5" market, Samsung would be all-in.

    Even Sony went from 4.6 to 5" with its compact line. I expect it to go up again next year.
    03-01-18 03:01 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    When you buy a Keyone you get the BlackBerry skin, security updates, hardened kernel, and root of trust, BlackBerry design, BlackBerry know how, and BlackBerry pedigree.

    When you buy a Motion you are only getting the skin, hardened kernel, root of trust and security updates. TCL provides the design, know-how, and pedigree.

    What ever the mark up is for a Keyone you are getting a decent return.

    I see BlackBerry having a lower fee for BlackBerry Secure because what they bring to the table has less value in the all touch market place. How much value?? Maybe 70 bucks retail ?
    03-01-18 03:10 PM
  24. brookie229's Avatar
    BlackBerry name alone is far more premium than Alcatel.

    I don't support the idea of an all touch if it doesn't appeal a niche.

    I see there is space for premium specced <_5 " displays. Only Sony makes those phones. And Sonys are not that compact. It's surprising why Samsung doesn't make a 5 inch S series. With the infinity display that device would be an one-handed beast. But samsung doesn't need the niche.
    Huawei makes a 5.1"
    03-01-18 03:11 PM
  25. ardakca's Avatar
    What does that even mean?

    If they felt there was a sub-5" market, Samsung would be all-in.

    Even Sony went from 4.6 to 5" with its compact line. I expect it to go up again next year.
    Samsung is strong enough to force products to the market just like Apple.

    There is a market for sub 5 inch phones. Iphones...

    Sony upped the size because the chassis got more compact, while the phone got 3 mm narrower, it only grew 6 mm in length. And still it has ugly bezels.
    03-01-18 03:13 PM
141 12345 ...

Similar Threads

  1. TCL shipped an estimated 850,000 BlackBerry smartphones in 2017
    By FishhPoohh in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 155
    Last Post: 03-01-18, 04:06 PM
  2. I want to buy a Blackberry 9620
    By Cixert in forum BlackBerry OS
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-28-18, 08:04 AM
  3. BlackBerry Z10 Battery
    By Felix Charles M in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-27-18, 05:16 AM
  4. Why Blackberry Keyone Keyboard not responding after update
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-26-18, 11:36 AM
  5. BlackBerry is here to stay as BlackBerry Mobile looks toward capturing at least 3 percent of the pre
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-18, 11:00 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD