12-01-16 12:38 PM
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  1. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    BB has known since the summer of 2013 that they had no chance of winning this game. They have no illusions of trying to compete with the big boys - if they thought they needed to do that, they'd have exited hardware entirely.

    Chen has been very straightforward: he's keeping hardware alive for people who want a BB - but he's quite aware that that's a small audience, and he's figured out how to keep making phones at comparatively low cost to the company, so that losses have been minimized. If BB spent the money needed to meet the carrier's expectations, they might get some additional sales, but the costs would result in BIG losses again, because they don't make enough margin on these phones to pay any of those costs.

    tl;dr - They aren't trying to win - they know they lost - they're just trying to support their (relatively few) remaining fans.
    Like I said... a game plan for failure will ensure just that!

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-27-16 12:01 PM
  2. tickerguy's Avatar
    The consequences of not chasing carriers will insure that one is ALWAYS a low-volume player.

    Why play if you don't wanna win?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Direct your anger at the FCC and FTC, along with the DOJ.

    Restraint of trade, such as the carriers practice in this regard with their claimed "need" to charge vendors fees (and big ones at that), PLUS take control over the firmware update cycle, AND the discriminatory fashion in which this is employed, is a felony in the United States. Go read 15 USC Section 1.

    Indict just ONE major carrier executive and all of this crap stops in one day.
    09-27-16 12:17 PM
  3. Im Mo Green's Avatar
    Like I said... a game plan for failure will ensure just that!

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    The only failure here is you not understanding what the situation is that Troy put forward. So carry on and keep up the bad work!!
    thurask and habs_fan like this.
    09-27-16 12:20 PM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    Just on a lark I decided to see what BlackBerry phones the 4 major US carriers currently offer. It was NOT a pretty picture! T-Mobile & Sprint, NADA! Verizon and AT&T, just the Priv. So yea I think it's a safe bet we won't see them selling the DTEK60 either! lol
    AT&T: No Alcatel
    Sprint: Alcatel CINCH 256 MB - Black | Sprint Alcatel ONETOUCH Retro 256 MB - Reddish Black | Sprint
    T-Mobile: Alcatel ONETOUCH FIERCE XL Windows 10 Phone | T-Mobile
    Verizon: No Alcatel

    None of the base Idol 4x devices are available from American carriers either.
    pkcable and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    09-27-16 12:22 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Direct your anger at the FCC and FTC, along with the DOJ.

    Restraint of trade, such as the carriers practice in this regard with their claimed "need" to charge vendors fees (and big ones at that), PLUS take control over the firmware update cycle, AND the discriminatory fashion in which this is employed, is a felony in the United States. Go read 15 USC Section 1.

    Indict just ONE major carrier executive and all of this crap stops in one day.
    The problem is that those carriers have exemptions. See, the government was under pressure to encourage companies to build out cellular infrastructure, and so carriers were given lots of perks and access in order to motivate them to do so. And by not building networks based on open, interoperable standards (which, at the time, there were reasons NOT to do so), it forced carriers to buy and supply custom phones that worked on their networks (and usually ONLY on their networks), and even more importantly, to be the primary retailer and source of support for those phones. If you buy a phone from Verizon, and it stops working correctly, you generally don't go to the manufacturer for support, you go to your carrier, and your carrier is responsible, as the provider of front-line support (at least in the US), to resolve the issue.

    That means if a manufacturer puts out a bad firmware update that bricks a bunch of phones, your carrier has to resolve that problem at the carrier's expense. Manufacturers pushed for this because it greatly reduces the manufacturer's costs - they don't need a huge support network in order to sell phones. But once this relationship was established, it also means that the manufacturers had to cede control of their firmware update process to the carriers.

    Yes, this is largely unique to the US, but the entire cellular situation here is largely unique to the US, so that's understandable. Obviously firmware updates have gotten more important as phones do more things, but until all of the legacy 2G/3G support is gone and we're all using LTE/VoLTE for everything - which would FINALLY allow phones that could be made to be interchangeable among US carriers - the current system isn't going to change, and no one is going to court.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and zephyr613 like this.
    09-27-16 03:04 PM
  6. Rasheed White's Avatar
    I'm going to go ahead and say yes. It will be probably the usual suspects, shop BlackBerry, Amazon, Blue Shop, EBAY and eventually the carriers...

    Unfortunately, I'm still waiting to get my hands on a DTEK50 demo unit at any of the carriers in my country. For now all I can find is either a mock device or the Idol equivalent...

    The DTEK60 will be sometime in coming...or maybe not...

    Respect My Autoritah!
    For 300 bucks , just buy it.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-27-16 04:56 PM
  7. tickerguy's Avatar
    The problem is that those carriers have exemptions. See, the government was under pressure to encourage companies to build out cellular infrastructure, and so carriers were given lots of perks and access in order to motivate them to do so.

    Find the exemption in US Code; I'd like to see the citation. I bet you can't find it because it's not there, just like it isn't for the medical industry -- and yes, I've looked.

    There is one for insurance (in most cases) -- it's called McCarren-Ferguson, which is why it's legal for insurance companies to collude on both rates and have "data sharing" such as the MIB and CLUE systems.

    Most of the screwing you get today as a consumer is flatly unlawful at a federal felony criminal level. The problem isn't that the law doesn't exist or there is an exemption -- it is that the DOJ refuses to bring charges and we the people refuse to demand that they do and enforce said demand with lawful but available acts up to and including a general strike.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    09-27-16 05:39 PM
  8. Bold9930's Avatar
    The expense of chasing carriers is not warranted by the low-volume target market of the devices in question.
    Why even offer devices then? Just get out of the handset business as has been eluded to forever. Tomorrow morning may be telling or more of the same cryptic nonsense.
    09-27-16 05:57 PM
  9. tickerguy's Avatar
    Because people like me want to buy them and if that can be done at a profit why would the company leave that money on the table?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-27-16 06:22 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Why even offer devices then? Just get out of the handset business as has been eluded to forever. Tomorrow morning may be telling or more of the same cryptic nonsense.
    It rounds out their EMM offering to enterprise. Consumers are just a bonus.
    09-27-16 09:00 PM
  11. Bold9930's Avatar
    It rounds out their EMM offering to enterprise. Consumers are just a bonus.
    I think this is beating a dead horse, but BYOD is the common angle in enterprises today and with BB SW being able to control devices - any device - I don't think these device strategy for the enterprise is a play, unless you were suggesting it's their SW enterprise strategy as suggested, then I would agree with you.

    I don't see how BB could sell devices to the enterprise or to consumers when they have limited carrier support in the US. Perhaps as geographic strategy?
    09-27-16 09:48 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I think this is beating a dead horse, but BYOD is the common angle in enterprises today and with BB SW being able to control devices - any device - I don't think these device strategy for the enterprise is a play, unless you were suggesting it's their SW enterprise strategy as suggested, then I would agree with you.

    I don't see how BB could sell devices to the enterprise or to consumers when they have limited carrier support in the US. Perhaps as geographic strategy?
    Most corporate users operate within a different support channel.

    BlackBerry can offer a superior handset to supplement their EMM solution, which gives them the unique ability to offer a compete package.
    09-27-16 09:53 PM
  13. Bold9930's Avatar
    Most corporate users operate within a different support channel.

    BlackBerry can offer a superior handset to supplement their EMM solution, which gives them the unique ability to offer a compete package.
    I get the sales pitch, believe me, but the reality is that enterprises are flooded with BYOD's...And they aren't or likely soon to be BB devices if this makes any sense, regardless of sales pitch. Moreover, Verizon has 130 mill subs. The DTEK50 and most likely the DTEK60 won't be supported on the leading carrier in the US so even if enterprises bought into the sales pitch, they couldn't use them.
    09-27-16 10:14 PM
  14. Bold9930's Avatar
    Based on past evidence it will be same as Chen's previous complete failures at carrier relations.

    Translation... likely no WiFi calling or LTE band 12 on Tmobile.

    Just as stupid as building a car without consideration of the roads on which it needs to be driven.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Hate to be as jaded, but I agree 100%...Epic faulure
    09-27-16 10:28 PM
  15. crackberry_geek's Avatar

    Find the exemption in US Code; I'd like to see the citation. I bet you can't find it because it's not there, just like it isn't for the medical industry -- and yes, I've looked.

    There is one for insurance (in most cases) -- it's called McCarren-Ferguson, which is why it's legal for insurance companies to collude on both rates and have "data sharing" such as the MIB and CLUE systems.

    Most of the screwing you get today as a consumer is flatly unlawful at a federal felony criminal level. The problem isn't that the law doesn't exist or there is an exemption -- it is that the DOJ refuses to bring charges and we the people refuse to demand that they do and enforce said demand with lawful but available acts up to and including a general strike.
    Spot on... and so much more succinct than all the bloviating...

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-28-16 07:17 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Based on today's announcements.... I think the DTEK60 is just about meeting some contract that was set in place months ago. This will be a very limited release phone, as Chen made it sound like by the end of the fiscal year they would be totally out of the hardware distribution business.

    Just seems like it will be very messy trying to launch a new phone, while telling investors they are done with hardware. What will Carrier's and retailers think about this? What will those "end-to-end" buyers think about it?
    09-28-16 08:17 AM
  17. Adif_701's Avatar
    Does anyone understand.. not manufacturing phones does NOT mean not in the phone hardware business. Do you believe all phones are manufactured by the company which has their name on it? Asian manufactures build almost all the cell phones in the world.

    Hence 'made in China'

    Posted via CB10
    aecgda likes this.
    09-28-16 08:20 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Based on today's announcements.... I think the DTEK60 is just about meeting some contract that was set in place months ago. This will be a very limited release phone, as Chen made it sound like by the end of the fiscal year they would be totally out of the hardware distribution business.

    Just seems like it will be very messy trying to launch a new phone, while telling investors they are done with hardware. What will Carrier's and retailers think about this? What will those "end-to-end" buyers think about it?
    I don't see it that way. I see no reason why they wouldn't continue with reference designs like TCL. It provides a platform to move their software, and it doesn't really cost them much to do it.

    BlackBerry is done designing and building their own phones, but they're not done with phones http://www.crackberry.com/blackberry...-partners-here
    09-28-16 08:26 AM
  19. tickerguy's Avatar
    There's utterly no reason for them not to sell phones that are reference designs like this. They are profitable since they basically get a contribution margin on each one sold with near-zero investment as the software engineering was going to happen anyway for their subscription model that is available to all who want to pay for it.

    Why would you exit a line of business that makes money, no matter how much? That would be dumb. What Chen has done is brilliant, really -- he took a money-losing division (their hardware efforts) and found a way to turn it into a profitable enterprise almost irrespective of individual device unit volume.

    I like the approach.
    conite likes this.
    09-28-16 08:29 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    People still don't get it. Hardware is only a small percentage of what BlackBerry wants to do. They are in the software business. Hardware is required only to further that goal.

    Pushing carriers is absolutely pointless as employees there will never promote anything but the big two or three. I think what they are doing is correct for the markets and product offerings they are focusing in on.

    Posted via CB10
    Hardware is really all CrackBerry and most fans are here for....

    And apparently hardware isn't required to futher their current goals.... as they pretty much just got out of the hardware business, other than licensing the name. In the end it great for shareholders and software "fans", no so much for the rest of us.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 08:57 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I don't see it that way. I see no reason why they wouldn't continue with reference designs like TCL. It provides a platform to move their software, and it doesn't really cost them much to do it.

    BlackBerry is done designing and building their own phones, but they're not done with phones BlackBerry is done designing and building their own phones, but they're not done with phones | CrackBerry.com
    That's not what Chen indicated in the call.... They are done with design and distribution of hardware. One of the questions was about hardware and outstanding obligation and POs.... Chen said they would be done with those by the end of the fiscal year.

    And the only way I see a licensing deal being worth anything... is if it covers a whole market. I bet no one else, including BlackBerry can sell BlackBerry branded phone in Indonesia now. If these other deals become reality in markets like India... I bet that holds true too.

    Thus BlackBerry is totally getting out of the hardware business... to make room for their licensing partners to sell their own hardware. The question for most of us... is will anyone pay to license the North American market?

    That's just my take on what I heard... could be totally wrong.
    09-28-16 09:06 AM
  22. Carjackd's Avatar
    Might as well wait a couple days and get it from the horse's mouth, no?
    Where is Mr Ed when we need him?
    zephyr613 likes this.
    09-28-16 09:16 AM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    Where is Mr Ed when we need him?
    Wilburrrrr!

    Apologies to anyone under the age of 55 or so, who won't understand that reference.
    zephyr613 and Carjackd like this.
    09-28-16 09:42 AM
  24. Bold9930's Avatar
    I don't see it that way. I see no reason why they wouldn't continue with reference designs like TCL. It provides a platform to move their software, and it doesn't really cost them much to do it.

    BlackBerry is done designing and building their own phones, but they're not done with phones BlackBerry is done designing and building their own phones, but they're not done with phones | CrackBerry.com
    Perhaps I can help you here. BB is done with handsets in the US...PERIOD! And I'll reference Chen's statement from today's call. Unless you live in Indonesia, you're SOL moving forward.

    "BlackBerry has signed one agreement already with a telecom joint venture in Indonesia. BB Merah Putih will manufacture, distribute and promote BlackBerry-branded devices running the company's secure versions of Android software and applications for the Indonesian market. BlackBerry has the option to distribute these devices outside of Indonesia, but Chen said it is not likely to do so."
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-16 11:46 AM
  25. Bold9930's Avatar
    Most corporate users operate within a different support channel.

    BlackBerry can offer a superior handset to supplement their EMM solution, which gives them the unique ability to offer a compete package.
    I work for one of the leading global enterprise organizations - a massive organization I might add...I think you don't understand and it's funny how you try to skew everyone's thought process. Your comment makes ZERO sense and to be very clear, BB will not be offering any company handsets anytime soon. If you understand today's announcement from BB, my hope this sinks in finally.
    09-28-16 11:50 AM
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