11-29-16 12:34 AM
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  1. krazyatom's Avatar
    I really wanted try DTEK60 but it looks like it won't happen because of band 12 missing.
    10-28-16 12:56 PM
  2. TommyBB's Avatar
    BlackBerry told me that DTEK60 does not support WiFi calling or band 12 on T-Mobile.

    This is using the chat feature on Shop BlackBerry's website.
    If that is true then it confirms yet again... BlackBerry making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again.

    Anti-carrier stup1d1ty!!
    I also chatted with ShopBB and they said the same thing.

    Looking like I may just stick with AT&T for now, but maybe I'll give TMUS a try at some point. Or just do a prepaid SIM to give it a whirl. I imagine that coverage in the Detroit and Indianapolis areas would still be fine, but not so sure about the rural areas in between where I do log quite a few miles.
    Just as I had suspected. I can't understand why they are doing this. No CDMA supporting device so that knocks out two major US carriers. The remaining two giants are not allowing support for either WFC or Band 12 (TMO). What hope do they have for these devices (DTEKx0) to be successful in the US market?

    My last BlackBerry device (DTEK50) I purchased and I couldn't even use it.
    10-28-16 01:39 PM
  3. tickerguy's Avatar
    Folks, you need to direct your ire at the FCC and DOJ on this.

    Tied sales are broadly, when the customer does not desire the tied product, illegal.

    The phone is capable of band 12 operation and VoLTE. If T-Mobile is blackballing it because a fee was not paid or similar ​that certainly ought to be a per-se felony violation of Federal law.
    10-28-16 02:02 PM
  4. RickTrout's Avatar
    My Shop BlackBerry shopping cart has a $550.00 purchase ready to go. Apparently BlackBerry doesn't want my money because without Band 12 on T-Mobile USA I cannot buy a new BlackBerry.

    Google was able to immediately have the Pixel approved for BYOD and authorized by T-Mobile and LG likewise with the V20.

    Obviously BlackBerry is incapable of working with T-Mobile to have their perfectly capable device approved for BYOD. The US market and loyal customers must not matter to them at all.

    For well over 10 years, (since the thumb wheel days) I have been BlackBerry loyal. When they force me to a LG V20 it will be a sad day for me, and for BlackBerry.

    Sorry for the rant. Just a frustrated loyal customer.



    Posted with my Z30 on CrackBerry 10
    10-28-16 02:06 PM
  5. stevec66's Avatar
    When traveling in the US TELUS defaults to T Mobile, so now I am thinking of putting my purchase on the back burning until the problem is resolved. Last thing I need is to be traveling in the US & no business phone link.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-16 02:08 PM
  6. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Just as I had suspected. I can't understand why they are doing this. No CDMA supporting device so that knocks out two major US carriers. The remaining two giants are not allowing support for either WFC or Band 12 (TMO). What hope do they have for these devices (DTEKx0) to be successful in the US market?

    My last BlackBerry device (DTEK50) I purchased and I couldn't even use it.
    The reason is because chen is an anti-carrier 1d10t
    10-28-16 02:28 PM
  7. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Folks, you need to direct your ire at the FCC and DOJ on this.

    Tied sales are broadly, when the customer does not desire the tied product, illegal.

    The phone is capable of band 12 operation and VoLTE. If T-Mobile is blackballing it because a fee was not paid or similar ​that certainly ought to be a per-se felony violation of Federal law.
    Consumers are not the ones who should have to do that.

    If chen wants to bypass carriers then he is the one who should do that.

    All the other hand set manufacturers figure it out... why can't he?

    Because he is anti-carrier...
    10-28-16 02:30 PM
  8. tickerguy's Avatar
    Well then don't go onto the FCC's web site and file a complaint.

    Don't care. Don't do it. Don't raise hell to have choices from various vendors large and small.

    Don't make noise and demand a response so you can get devices that are world-class and hundreds of dollars cheaper than those that are "tied sales" linked to the carriers.

    Go ahead and cut off your own nose to spite your face.

    If you think this doesn't continue and get worse as 600Mhz spectrum opens, you're wrong. It's going to get much worse, and it needs to be stopped now before it does, or you'll be right back to having to buy phones from carriers because their extortion games aimed at vendors will make it so.

    We already have a less-competitive market in the US because of this behavior -- behavior that is illegal under 100+ year old law. If you don't think it's important to make noise, then that's fine -- it's your money, and if you wish to throw it away that's on you.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-28-16 02:49 PM
  9. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Well then don't go onto the FCC's web site and file a complaint.

    Don't care. Don't do it. Don't raise hell to have choices from various vendors large and small.

    Don't make noise and demand a response so you can get devices that are world-class and hundreds of dollars cheaper than those that are "tied sales" linked to the carriers.

    Go ahead and cut off your own nose to spite your face.

    If you think this doesn't continue and get worse as 600Mhz spectrum opens, you're wrong. It's going to get much worse, and it needs to be stopped now before it does, or you'll be right back to having to buy phones from carriers because their extortion games aimed at vendors will make it so.

    We already have a less-competitive market in the US because of this behavior -- behavior that is illegal under 100+ year old law. If you don't think it's important to make noise, then that's fine -- it's your money, and if you wish to throw it away that's on you.
    I'm not saying consumers shouldn't file a complaint.

    But I am saying it is not up to consumers to solve chen's problems for him.

    He is pure and simply anti-carrier. He doesn't want to be in the business. And quite frankly it makes no sense anymore that he is.

    Either play to win... or get out. And chen is a loser that should have thrown in the towel long ago. All he has done is prolonged the pain.
    10-28-16 03:07 PM
  10. tickerguy's Avatar
    If you have a carrier demand $50,000 to test your device and then again with each new software turn and you think you'll sell a few thousand units on that carrier...

    Do you want a $500 phone or $700 phone?

    This isn't on Chen.

    BTW when I'm where there is Band12 I'll test this since I have an active tmo mvno sim....
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-28-16 04:39 PM
  11. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    If you have a carrier demand $50,000 to test your device and then again with each new software turn and you think you'll sell a few thousand units on that carrier...

    Do you want a $500 phone or $700 phone?

    This isn't on Chen.

    BTW when I'm where there is Band12 I'll test this since I have an active tmo mvno sim....
    If I had the choice between a $500 phone that doesn't work or a $700 phone that does... the choice would be pretty obvious.

    Duh! Is chen really such an 1d10t that he doesn't understand that?!
    Last edited by crackberry_geek; 10-28-16 at 06:59 PM.
    10-28-16 06:38 PM
  12. tickerguy's Avatar
    If I had the choice between a $500 phone that doesn't work or a $700 phone that does... the choice would be pretty obvious.

    Duh! Is chen really such an 1d10t that he doesn't understand that?!
    The choice is between a $500 phone that works fine on AT&T or where T-Mobile has other-than-band12 and a screaming anti-trust violation with regards to T-Mobile for which Legere should be in prison, and NO PHONE AT ALL because nobody is going to pay $700 for them any more unless they have a fruit on the back, and we're not talking BlackBerry fruits either.
    10-28-16 07:10 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The choice is between a $500 phone that works fine on AT&T or where T-Mobile has other-than-band12 and a screaming anti-trust violation with regards to T-Mobile for which Legere should be in prison, and NO PHONE AT ALL because nobody is going to pay $700 for them any more unless they have a fruit on the back, and we're not talking BlackBerry fruits either.
    It isn't news that most phones that T-Mo doesn't actually carry themselves won't have their manufacturers pay for Band 12 compatibility testing - which I understand may be an FCC requirement - simply because the manufacturer doesn't think they'll sell many more phones if they do. That's not the carrier's fault, and throwing the CEO in prison over something like that is laughable. Not only isn't it illegal, it's almost certainly required to ensure that there won't be any interference caused by devices using those frequencies.

    Anyway, it's also VERY old news that T-Mo doesn't develop their WiFi Calling for phones that they don't carry themselves. The only reason BB10 phones all worked is because T-Mo carried a couple of them and because the hardware was essentially identical in everything but the PP. But T-Mo's policy has nothing to do with BB - there are tons of phones that don't have WFC, including many from companies that T-Mo carries - they just don't carry that particular model. It's always been T-Mo's policy that they only officially support WFC for phones they sell themselves.
    00stryder and JeepBB like this.
    10-28-16 09:14 PM
  14. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    The choice is between a $500 phone that works fine on AT&T or where T-Mobile has other-than-band12 and a screaming anti-trust violation with regards to T-Mobile for which Legere should be in prison, and NO PHONE AT ALL because nobody is going to pay $700 for them any more unless they have a fruit on the back, and we're not talking BlackBerry fruits either.
    Some folks just loathe success.

    Just stick with chen then... he's YOUR man...
    10-29-16 08:39 AM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    It isn't news that most phones that T-Mo doesn't actually carry themselves won't have their manufacturers pay for Band 12 compatibility testing - which I understand may be an FCC requirement - simply because the manufacturer doesn't think they'll sell many more phones if they do. That's not the carrier's fault, and throwing the CEO in prison over something like that is laughable. Not only isn't it illegal, it's almost certainly required to ensure that there won't be any interference caused by devices using those frequencies.
    It's not an FCC requirement.

    What IS an FCC requirement is that a cellphone be able to complete a 911 call without a service plan or even without a SIM in it. There is a potential issue for devices that can receive Band12 but cannot do VoLTE, in that if there is no fallback frequency available with that carrier then a person could attempt a 911 call but not be able to connect it. That was the (legitimate) complaint T-Mobile originally had with a handful of devices, including a couple of Motorola models that had Band12 but did not ​implement VoLTE at all.

    However, the solution to that is for the baseband code to detect that a 911 call is being attempted, there is no voice service possible on the band currently selected, and to lock it out for the duration of the emergency call. The baseband code already distinguishes between 911 and other calls and has since at least the Samsung Vibrant (nearly 10 years ago!) as I ran into baseband-specific 911 code on that device while porting a newer Android release to it -- and was unable to get documentation for the 911-specific callbacks it was making. This made it impossible for me to publicly release the port I was working on since if you dialed 911 the voice circuit would never unblock as whatever the baseband was requesting from the undocumented callback was unable to be properly responded to.

    Instead of expecting the maker to do that, however, and lobbying for the FCC to require it as part of certification (which would have been appropriate and landed on every maker's budget equally) T-Mobile instead pressured those manufacturers to shut off Band 12 entirely. This was what started their "certification" game, and it might have been valid in the case of a device that could do Band12 but had no VoLTE in order to meet ACTUAL FCC requirements.

    However those days are in the past since the SOCs and RF chipsets now available all do VoLTE. There is no longer a reason for this sort of discriminatory nonsense nor what amounts to an act of extortion; VoLTE is a published standard, and if you meet it, you meet it. For a carrier to demand a fee to certify that which is already part of an international standard is outrageous; it amounts to paying twice for the same thing (first to have it in the chipset, then again to "prove it" even though the chipset already passed FCC testing and thus has already been through the government's compliance system, including verification that VoLTE works.)

    The FCC already requires that all handsets go through certification before being sold for service in the United States. Blackberry, as with all other manufacturers who ship to and sell in the US market, comply with that requirement and pay for that testing already. Said testing already prevents issues such as poor RF design that would cause interference to other users, excessive RF that could harm you (e.g. SAR requirements) and similar. If there is a protocol compliance requirement (e.g. VoLTE on certain bands) then the proper place for that mandate to appear is there, in the FCC mandated testing. That is equally imposed on everyone, it has the same cost for everyone, and nobody gets to play favorites, spiffs, or unlawful attempts at tied sales as takes place today.

    If a device passes FCC certification a carrier should not be permitted to discriminate either for or against it on its networks. To so-allow is to permit carriers to attempt to force a tied sale ​and that is unlawful under long-standing US anti-trust law.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    10-29-16 10:48 AM
  16. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    [/I][/B]If a device passes FCC certification a carrier should not be permitted to discriminate either for or against it on its networks. To so-allow is to permit carriers to attempt to force a tied sale ​and that is unlawful under long-standing US anti-trust law.
    If that's the case - and it may be - then the entities that have standing for a lawsuit would be the phone manufacturers whose phones are being denied (and not end-users who choose to buy those phones). So the question becomes: why haven't any manufacturers sued?
    10-29-16 12:26 PM
  17. Froboy817's Avatar
    When I asked T-Mobile on twitter about Dtek50/Dtek60 and band 12 on their network their response was...

    'Thanks for clarifying Tony! We absolutely want all of our phones to use benefit from the Band 12 services though this depends on the phone capabilities and making sure the frequency is compatible. We always want you to get the most from your devices and you can see which phones are compatible here: https://t.co/2Dn79R5Wup. Thanks for reaching out to T-Force and let us know if you have any questions! *KyleS'

    Basically saying get a different phone.
    10-29-16 01:12 PM
  18. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    The choice is between a $500 phone that works fine on AT&T or where T-Mobile has other-than-band12 and a screaming anti-trust violation with regards to T-Mobile for which Legere should be in prison, and NO PHONE AT ALL because nobody is going to pay $700 for them any more unless they have a fruit on the back, and we're not talking BlackBerry fruits either.
    DTEK60 doesn't work fine on AT&T either. Turns out wi-fi Hotspot doesn't work on AT&T (separate thread).

    So if you want a fully functional modern smartphone on ANY of the carriers in the largest market in the world... the DTEK50 and DTEK60 are NOT options.

    Great job once again chen... NOT!!
    10-29-16 01:42 PM
  19. krazyatom's Avatar
    Even my old generation iPhone has LTE band 12 for tmobile! Please make this happen or I can't get DTEK60.
    10-29-16 02:54 PM
  20. Willieray3's Avatar
    DTEK60 doesn't work fine on AT&T either. Turns out wi-fi Hotspot doesn't work on AT&T (separate thread).

    So if you want a fully functional modern smartphone on ANY of the carriers in the largest market in the world... the DTEK50 and DTEK60 are NOT options.

    Great job once again chen... NOT!!
    It's not BlackBerry's fault if Tmobile won't allow the Dtek series to connect to band 12, or allow wifi calling.
    10-29-16 03:18 PM
  21. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    It's not BlackBerry's fault if Tmobile won't allow the Dtek series to connect to band 12, or allow wifi calling.
    Yes it is. It is chen's anti-carrier antics that refuse to follow the procedures that every other hand set maker is willing to follow if they want their phones to work.
    10-29-16 03:56 PM
  22. krazyatom's Avatar
    Blackberry Priv works with tmobile band 12 right?
    10-29-16 03:58 PM
  23. whealy's Avatar
    So could I (overpay) and buy a cheap phone on contract and switch SIM's to keep 12 open on the the DTEK60?
    10-29-16 04:25 PM
  24. tickerguy's Avatar
    So could I (overpay) and buy a cheap phone on contract and switch SIM's to keep 12 open on the the DTEK60?
    So far nobody has actually stuck a T-Mobile SIM in one and reported what they can and can't do. I have said SIM but don't live in a Band12 area, and won't be in one until roughly the first week of December. I WILL update when I can test this.

    The capability in the device is there. The question is whether T-Mobile is INTENTIONALLY blocking it from coming up, not whether the phone can do it -- it clearly can.
    10-29-16 04:30 PM
  25. mryan55's Avatar
    So could I (overpay) and buy a cheap phone on contract and switch SIM's to keep 12 open on the the DTEK60?
    I'm sure that they would figure this out eventually. Kind of like when AT&T forced data plans on users who were putting non-data plan SIMs in their smartphones. They had no intention of using mobile data but were forced on the plan because of the capabilities of the device.

    I've thought of doing similar, toss a SIM in but give the IMEI to an AT&T Priv that I have. As discussed around here the Priv seems to work on band 12 regardless of original carrer, factory unlocked, etc.
    danp2000 and krazyatom like this.
    10-29-16 07:28 PM
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