12-08-17 11:03 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    Those are some strong assertions without any sourcing.

    I view the DTEK app (on the DTEKx0 phones as well as all other BBMo phones with the app) as a marketing gimmick to try to differentiate themselves from the Android crowd. The details regarding hardware root of trust, the DTEK app, and other supposed kernel improvements were never really discussed. We were never provided a technical breakdown of how it worked differently than any other Android phone.
    Do you disbelieve Knox too?

    Or is it only BlackBerry that you don't trust?

    Because neither company is going to reveal exactly what they do to the public. The proof just has to stay in the pudding, as they say.

    But here is BlackBerry's "bucket of lies" for your reference:

    "What is BID

    It’s like a personal security guard for your smartphone, exclusive to the BlackBerry PRIV.

    Technically speaking, BlackBerry Integrity Detection (BID for short) is a trusted/secure background process running at the system level, that monitors the device for known security vulnerabilities. The BID service has its definitions updated regularly (silently) to ensure that you’re protected against existing and future exploits.

    When you combine this with BlackBerry’s aggressive OS patching strategy, our choice to embed security into our hardware and DTEK’s customization, it’s clear how BlackBerry’s Android is second-to-none for security and privacy."
    Last edited by conite; 12-04-17 at 12:16 AM.
    12-04-17 12:03 AM
  2. dirk_ddiggler's Avatar
    Do you disbelieve Knox too?

    Or is it only BlackBerry that you don't trust?

    Because neither company is going to reveal exactly what they do to the public. The proof just has to stay in the pudding, as they say.
    You sure about that Conite? I can find/read plenty of material about KNOX, for example:

    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=kH7RIK2-

    Here is a Win10 v. Marshmallow v. Knox 2.4 paper:

    http://www.piquesolutions.com/wp-con...L_081016-1.pdf

    What is BID....
    You pulled that quote from one of a few pages on the topic, one of which is this one:

    Updated: BlackBerry Integrity Detection is here! (Now with a video) | BlackBerry Developer Blog

    The only consumer of the BID service on every phone is the DTEK app itself. Maybe some corps/govt entities integrated BID into some of their applications, but given that this service is specifically targeting the BYOD crowd, wide adoption is simply impossible since most BYOD devices are going to be Apple, Samsung, and other Android devices (hat tip to anyone still rocking a Win10 Mobile device.) I am not aware of an BID enabled application that's in common usage.

    And if the DTEK app is the only front end of BID service, it might as well be irrelevant. I see it in the K1 forum too, it goes like this:

    Question: Hey man, my DTEK app suddenly says my OS is compromised. What should I do?
    Answer: Don't worry about it, mine does that too. You could wipe your phone, but just do what the rest of us does, just ignore it.

    As to the BID service being supposedly updated regularly and silently.... Maybe yes, maybe no. But since I can't verify the claim, it might as well not be true. Again, if you have some white papers to post, a presentation at a security summit, etc, I am all eyes and ears.

    This thread covers the topic pretty well:

    https://forums.crackberry.com/genera...-apps-1105875/
    12-04-17 02:47 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    You sure about that Conite? I can find/read plenty of material about KNOX, for example:

    https://forums.crackberry.com/e?link...token=DxxmfxwM

    Here is a Win10 v. Marshmallow v. Knox 2.4 paper:

    http://www.piquesolutions.com/wp-con...L_081016-1.pdf



    You pulled that quote from one of a few pages on the topic, one of which is this one:

    The only consumer of the BID service on every phone is the DTEK app itself. Maybe some corps/govt entities integrated BID into some of their applications, but given that this service is specifically targeting the BYOD crowd, wide adoption is simply impossible since most BYOD devices are going to be Apple, Samsung, and other Android devices (hat tip to anyone still rocking a Win10 Mobile device.) I am not aware of an BID enabled application that's in common usage.

    And if the DTEK app is the only front end of BID service, it might as well be irrelevant. I see it in the K1 forum too, it goes like this:

    Question: Hey man, my DTEK app suddenly says my OS is compromised. What should I do?
    Answer: Don't worry about it, mine does that too. You could wipe your phone, but just do what the rest of us does, just ignore it.

    As to the BID service being supposedly updated regularly and silently.... Maybe yes, maybe no. But since I can't verify the claim, it might as well not be true. Again, if you have some white papers to post, a presentation at a security summit, etc, I am all eyes and ears.
    That's just a glossy brochure about Knox. Ultimately you still have to take Samsung's word for it that it is implemented and working as described.

    I would still rather have Integrity Detection lean towards false positives than having it miss something.

    Here is the kernel source code:
    https://github.com/blackberry/androi...msm8992/AAO474
    Last edited by conite; 12-04-17 at 06:34 AM.
    12-04-17 06:13 AM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    That's just a glossy brochure about Knox. Ultimately you still have to take Samsung's word for it that it is implemented and working as described.

    I would still rather have Integrity Detection lean towards false positives than having it miss something.

    Here is the kernel source code:
    https://github.com/blackberry/androi...msm8992/AAO474
    I suspect most larger IT departments and Government agencies don't take the word of either. The do testing on different platforms & devices for a long time before implementing them.

    For the most part the rest are going BYOD and use management tools to protect their data.
    12-04-17 10:29 AM
  5. tickerguy's Avatar
    I suspect most larger IT departments and Government agencies don't take the word of either. The do testing on different platforms & devices for a long time before implementing them.

    For the most part the rest are going BYOD and use management tools to protect their data.
    Which IMHO is almost-useless without a decent base in the OS itself.

    Remote management is great at what it does. I use it myself, since I have my own Exchange server environment. If I lose my device I can tell the server to wipe the device, and the next time it talks to the network it will. There's no way to override that command once given, and you can't remove the account without being able to authenticate. Is it perfect? Of course not.

    Google's tools (if you trust Google) can do the same thing, and work the same way.

    The problem is that if the device is insecure it matters not because you can exfiltrate all the data before anyone knows it happened.

    Do I trust DTEK/BID "completely"? No, but it's on par with Knox in terms of what I have to take on trust. What I do know is that I made a fair effort to break into both the DTEK60 and Priv -- and failed twice. As far as I know the bounty on the Priv over at XDA has gone uncollected, so it's not just my attempts that have gotten nowhere......

    My view is that there's material amounts of value, and I do find DTEK to be extremely useful in identifying apps that are grabbing data (such as location, etc), making it easy to both figure out which ones are misbehaving and to shut 'em down. The latter isn't hard at all, but the former on "native" Android, without DTEK, is not easy at all. One of the reasons these apps hit location all the time (as an example) is that it's actually fairly hard on most devices to KNOW they're doing it.

    If you want that capability then as things stand now in the Android world there's only one place to get it.
    12-04-17 10:38 AM
  6. mikeydodds's Avatar
    Because it doesnt have the battery life of the motion, the fingerprint scanner is in the wrong place and its not waterproof?

    It does have better sound and is cheaper though...

    If epic battery life, a keyboard and waterproofing wasn't a requirement for me i'd probably get the dtek.

    I want the 3 swipe gesture shortcuts on my keyone. Had to say goodbye to that in order to move onto marshmallow.

    P.s a keyboard is more important to me than waterproofing.
    12-04-17 05:10 PM
  7. tickerguy's Avatar
    I like my DTEK60 but for the same money (actually slightly cheaper) the Motion looks to have the advantage -- better battery (by a lot) and waterproofing. As for the fingerprint scanner being on the back I don't consider that "wrong"; it's very intuitive back there and requires no conscious thought to unlock; just stick your index finger on it for a moment when you pick the phone up.
    12-04-17 05:19 PM
  8. anon(7915689)'s Avatar
    Do yourself a favour, Buy the Oneplus 5T. It's the first phone I've ever had that hasn't been BlackBerry. Down load the BlackBerry Hub from Play Store. I promise you ll thank me later. Oneplus 5t is blistering fast, amazing battery life, finger print/ face recognition is fast and always works. The phone never lags or freezes like the Dtek 60 did. I'm still getting used to "not" having to carry a rapid charger everywhere I go. Brother do yourself a favour. Research the 5t before you purchase that 60.
    I am the verge of doing just that. Nothing has ever come close to the battery life of my Passport. Okay, maybe my 9900.

    My 60 is a good phone, but I am user that works his phone. I have seven email accounts (one of the reasons I stayed with Blackberry was the Hub) and multiple social media accounts that I use for my volunteer work. The battery will not make it through the day any longer.

    The 5T looks like the almost perfect phone with addition of the Blackberry Hub/App suite.
    12-05-17 12:05 AM
  9. tickerguy's Avatar
    The DTEK60 was never capable of a full day on a single charge for anyone who is a heavy user. It wasn't when brand new and it won't be today. There's simply not enough stored energy in the unit, and this is also true for all other devices on the same (8xx) series processor with the same (3,000mah or thereabouts) capacity battery. This is the price of "thin" in the context of a mobile device; batteries take up space.

    This leads to a secondary problem in that it is CYCLES that ultimately lead to battery failure (due to wearing out.) Li chemistry cells have a roughly 500 cycle life before they are ~20%+ down on capacity from new (and you will find that unacceptable), so.... you do the math on that.

    If you're a heavy user you want (1) a more-power friendly screen (IPS .vs. OLED) that is not reliant on screen CONTENT to be efficient (OLED is), (2) a 6xx series CPU instead of an 8xx series one and (3) a LARGE battery (3500mah or more.)
    12-05-17 07:36 AM
  10. jurgvonschmurg's Avatar
    I'm still getting used to "not" having to carry a rapid charger everywhere I go. Brother do yourself a favour.
    Just moved from a DTEK60 to a OnePlus 5T (8GB/128GB), and agree 110%. Currently at 60% battery after charging 24hrs ago...literally. Honestly, I could probably charge at work tomorrow morning if I wanted to.

    Similar stock Android experience with zero bloatware.
    12-05-17 10:44 AM
  11. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    I used dtek60 for main device... it last until I get home. Usually 15% or under but still.. other than OS there is not issues with it... OS being stuck on M i mean. Isn't the OnePlus5 like 2 generation later than the Dtek60?
    12-05-17 10:50 AM
  12. tonycanuck's Avatar
    I'm looking to get the Dtek 60. Price has hit $530CDN. Currently running Passport, but some programs I need are now Android or IOS only and I can't get them run even with Cobalt's stuff. Dtek 60 looks like it's still up to date spec wise with today's phone's. Love the fact it's an OLED screen. Any reason why I shouldn't?

    Posted via CB10
    I have had the BlackBerry Torch2 9810, the Z30, the Passport SE, and the PRIV. All unique and excellent devices. I always loved BlackBerry, and was its biggest fan.

    However, my recent experience with the Alcatel-built DTEK60 has been a disaster :

    1) After ten months, the battery no longer held a charge;
    2) The device shut down at 25% charge;
    3) Horrendous customer and technical support, even under warranty;
    4) I sent my DTEK60 to the Canadian Alcatel Repair Centre first in October 2017. They did nothing for the three weeks they had the device, and upon return, the device still shut down after two hours use;
    5) I sent my DTEK60 a second time in November to the Canadian Alcatel Repair Centre (SBE Canada). No word after another three weeks of waiting.
    6) A quick on-line search reveals that the Canadian Better Business Bureau has given the Canadian Alcatel Repair Centre (SBE Canada) an "F" or "Fail" due to their poor technical support;
    7) Lack of security updates.

    I would suggest another brand at this point.
    HughJarsse likes this.
    12-05-17 11:06 AM
  13. tonycanuck's Avatar
    Do yourself a favour, Buy the Oneplus 5T. It's the first phone I've ever had that hasn't been BlackBerry. Down load the BlackBerry Hub from Play Store. I promise you ll thank me later. Oneplus 5t is blistering fast, amazing battery life, finger print/ face recognition is fast and always works. The phone never lags or freezes like the Dtek 60 did. I'm still getting used to "not" having to carry a rapid charger everywhere I go. Brother do yourself a favour. Research the 5t before you purchase that 60.
    I agree. I regret getting the DTEK60.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-05-17 11:08 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Buy the Motion over the DTEK60. Battery life is much better.....Better device quality and BBMo officially supports the device. Buy through carrier if possible, even more support.
    12-05-17 01:11 PM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    Yeah given that pricing hasn't really dropped much on the DTEK60 I'd have to agree. You can get a LG V20 used but refurb for ~$200. That price would be REAL attractive for a DTEK60, but at close to the same price as a Motion? Nope.
    12-05-17 01:52 PM
  16. dhoffman9's Avatar
    It's nearly impossible to talk to someone about getting your cracked screen fixed. I ended up shipping it to Texas and it was a nightmare and still is a nightmare getting through to this company even when they had my phone for two additional weeks longer than they said they would have it... 7-10 days was promised. $145 for the fix. All my tasks are gone, back to factory reset. Will have to use Google Drive for what I can. I put my SD card back in the phone and the best the phone will do is tell me it will format it... I think this is a different physical phone than the one I sent in... different imei numbers...
    By the way, help with any of the above issues would be appreciated!!! Blackberry hasn't helped much.
    12-05-17 10:30 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    It's nearly impossible to talk to someone about getting your cracked screen fixed. I ended up shipping it to Texas and it was a nightmare and still is a nightmare getting through to this company even when they had my phone for two additional weeks longer than they said they would have it... 7-10 days was promised. $145 for the fix. All my tasks are gone, back to factory reset. Will have to use Google Drive for what I can. I put my SD card back in the phone and the best the phone will do is tell me it will format it... I think this is a different physical phone than the one I sent in... different imei numbers...
    By the way, help with any of the above issues would be appreciated!!! Blackberry hasn't helped much.
    This is why I'm replacing the DTEK phones instead of repairing. I like the devices but I cracked both screens and it will just happen again.
    12-06-17 07:21 AM
  18. Antberrymartyr1's Avatar
    I agree. I regret getting the DTEK60.
    Sadly .... With the way the DTEK60 has been discarded as soon as security upgrades end I'm getting a oneplus 5T

    Enough is enough... I so wish I'd realised this a year ago and saved myself a few pounds sterling.... But maybe this was required for me to get BlackBerry, BlackBerry Mobile and all the sham ball passing out of my system.

    Don't waste your money ... look at other phones ....
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-06-17 01:11 PM
  19. Bay 13's Avatar
    Yeah given that pricing hasn't really dropped much on the DTEK60 I'd have to agree. You can get a LG V20 used but refurb for ~$200. That price would be REAL attractive for a DTEK60, but at close to the same price as a Motion? Nope.
    I got my V20 for $269.00 usd. brand new
    12-06-17 06:02 PM
  20. Bay 13's Avatar
    I got my V20 for $269.00 usd. brand new
    Overall better phone than the 60. 60 started failing on me less than 12 months of ownership. Battery died, charging port, fingerprint scanner went out and lastly... no OS updates. Security updates will end very soon. To TCL credit they fixed every issue and customer service was good working with the American repair center.
    12-06-17 06:06 PM
  21. tickerguy's Avatar
    Well, remember that the V20 was NOT a cheap device when it was brand new. It's only attractive now because it's $200!
    12-06-17 08:05 PM
  22. Bay 13's Avatar
    Well, remember that the V20 was NOT a cheap device when it was brand new. It's only attractive now because it's $200!
    So true... I would not have shelled out $799.00 for that 12 months ago...

    One LG guy I know said he never buys his phones new. He wait 6 to 12 months and then he snags them. Apple, Samsung and now the Pixel phones will drive LG prices down fast.
    12-06-17 08:47 PM
  23. moonflyer's Avatar
    Yes, no good FULL backup solution is available (is it because ROOT is disabled?), and the ways to work around the situation are way too time consuming and ugly for me.

    I intend to refrain from BB Android devices AT ALL for now at least until they provide a FULL backup application. I'll be fine with an external solution as well as it was with OS10 (BB Link).
    12-07-17 07:50 AM
  24. ptaylor10's Avatar
    I have had my DTEK60 for over a year now and have not had any of the issues others have noted. I use my phone mostly for work, and then consuming social media and some surfing in the evening. My battery lasts me through my work day and into the evening. But I wouldn't call myself a heavy user. Overall I am still pleased with the phone. But if I was in the market for a BlackBerry Mobile phone, and I had to pull the trigger now, I would select the Motion or the Keyone. For me, I am hoping that BlackBerry Mobile eventually brings out a higher-spec slab.
    12-07-17 08:32 AM
  25. tonycanuck's Avatar
    If BlackBerry had a custom interface that mimicked the BB10 gestures on Android plus the security package, you could argue in defense of the workflow and stick around. But with BlackBerry using basically a bare Android OS, the differences are minor.

    If you can equate BB phones to non-BB phones, BB has lost. BB should fork Android, customize it, and then it won't be an apples-to-apples comparison.

    At the end of the day, BB has shown its base the door to other Android phones. And because a door is a door, non-BB users are opened up to the world of BlackBerry. However once non-BB users see mid-range phones at premium prices and also no OS upgrade paths, those individuals may consider staying where they are at or use a competing product than getting a BB.

    The DTEK60 is the Alcatel Idol 4s with hardware differences. I've read opinions on the Idol 4s, which appear to be positive. They liked the hardware. It's that TCL let them down with the software for the Idol 4s. Summary for DTEK60 = good hardware, poor software support.
    No , not "good hardware." Many of us have had serious battery charging and discharging problems with the DTEK60.

    My DTEK60 is back with the Alcatel "Repair Centre" a second time since they didn't do anything the first time.

    Avoid the DTEK60 at all costs because ten months after the purchase date the battery will fail. There is no real technical support.
    ptaylor10 likes this.
    12-07-17 07:01 PM
52 123

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