10-30-17 07:35 PM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    No man, I'm not talking about TCL's behavior at all...TCL wants to make money for sure.

    Also, your speculation is as wild as mine loll

    I'm not falling for your "no way they would do this etc" logic anymore loll

    Still love your input and insight though

    Posted via CB10
    The only way you can get screwed by the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is by action of TCL - either through its own malice, or through a poorly executed agreement with BlackBerry. Either way - only TCL would be to blame.
    07-02-17 07:10 PM
  2. evodevo69's Avatar
    The only way you can get screwed by the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is by action of TCL - either through its own malice, or through a poorly executed agreement with BlackBerry. Either way - only TCL would be to blame.
    And would you consider an agreement that didn't guarantee android O as poorly executed?

    Or that if BlackBerry is sold, it could dissolve the agreement or it isn't binding for the new owner? You and I both don't know.

    So you don't think that BlackBerry, the one who's doing the software updates, could ever be at fault for anything that might go wrong with the TCL phones?


    Posted via CB10
    chi-town311 likes this.
    07-02-17 07:13 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    And would you consider an agreement that didn't guarantee android O as poorly executed?

    Or that if BlackBerry is sold, it could dissolve the agreement or it isn't binding for the new owner? You and I both don't know.

    So you don't think that BlackBerry, the one who's doing the software updates, could ever be at fault for anything that might go wrong with the TCL phones?


    Posted via CB10
    Whether the agreement included Android O or not would be the responsibility of TCL.

    If BlackBerry is sold, it would still need to uphold its obligations. Companies are bought and sold all of the time, and it's intentionally not easy to absolve oneself of liabilities. Otherwise the market would be chaos.

    Of course BlackBerry could cause something to go "wrong" with TCL phones - software has bugs. But the agreement should spell out what the remedies are.

    TCL is a big company, and has lots of legal experience dealing with vendors.
    07-02-17 07:21 PM
  4. evodevo69's Avatar
    Whether the agreement included Android O or not would be the responsibility of TCL.

    If BlackBerry is sold, it would still need to uphold its obligations. Companies are bought and sold all of the time, and it's intentionally not easy to absolve oneself of liabilities. Otherwise the market would be chaos.

    Of course BlackBerry could cause something to go "wrong" with TCL phones - software has bugs. But the agreement should spell out what the remedies are.

    TCL is a big company, and has lots of legal experience dealing with vendors.
    Loll there you go again man, giving a sound and reasonable explanation that would give us reassurance about buying a TCL BlackBerry device...I'm still skeptical though.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-17 07:36 PM
  5. krazyatom's Avatar
    BlackBerry and TCL are already known for lack of OS updates so don't get your hopes up!
    Uzi and chi-town311 like this.
    07-02-17 07:54 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry and TCL are already known for lack of OS updates so don't get your hopes up!
    What other TCL product that advertises quick updates are you using as a track record?
    07-02-17 08:14 PM
  7. krazyatom's Avatar
    What other TCL product that advertises quick updates are you using as a track record?
    Look at Alcatel idol 4 still stuck in marshmallow and it was 2016 phone.
    07-02-17 08:40 PM
  8. Bay 13's Avatar
    Loll there you go again man, giving a sound and reasonable explanation that would give us reassurance about buying a TCL BlackBerry device...I'm still skeptical though.

    Posted via CB10
    I would say follow your gut and observe TCL in the next 4-6 months 1. Customer Service A. response to the K1 build quality issues, B. Consistency with security updates, which Blackberry controls.

    I am holding on to my DTEK 60 until Q 1 2018. I need to have this phone for at least 12 months before I upgrade. Like I shared in other post...sad if this phone is two O.S. behind this August and the hardware is less than a year old. Hey...Blackberry may surprise us and give it Android N before O comes out.

    You are right...we do not know if the contract is for Blackberry to not update the O.S/ once per year but only to update security patches. I will know by Dec 2017 if I need to move to a new phone manufacturer. My gut is telling me that the new phones release this year will be on Android N and will never see Android O. If it takes Samsung 6-7 months to update the OS on the S series...I have little faith TCL/Blackberry will do better.
    07-02-17 08:41 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I know that loll

    So what I'm saying is then - there is clearly a difference between the consumer side and company side.

    I realize that BlackBerry isn't responsible for what the customer thinks they are buying, what I am saying is that what the average customer thinks they are getting, is, by way of what BlackBerry has done recently, way off the mark from what BlackBerry is giving.

    Not saying who's right or wrong, as I agree BlackBerry isn't obligated to anything outside of the basic legal requirements.

    But what I am saying is - don't think for one second the KEYone or the upcoming BlackBerry TCL phones later this year, will be immune from the same fate as the dtek50 and 60 because BlackBerry is still involved in this venture - and it is plausible for BlackBerry to be doing worse by the time TCL launches their other BlackBerry handsets. TCL can also be losing money on BlackBerry branded phones as well. As such, by next year, they both might just give up altogether.

    No one knows, and all I'm saying is exactly what you're saying - BlackBerry isn't obligated to anything outside of basic support and their recent launch and casting aside of the dtek phones is a predictor of future behavior. Doesn't matter who's building and marketing the phones.

    BlackBerry is doing exactly what you just described and as a result, I'd never pay $800+ CAD for something like the KEYone. Ever lolll

    To me, it's just looks like a really really long and dragged out messy divorce to use your analogy...or a very slow and painful death to use another analogy. And we're at the tail end of it.

    Hardware is already cut - makes it easy for a new owner to just get rid of it completely, software team included.

    They didn't see any benefit to updating the 50 and 60 to nougat (more like they didn't want to waste money or time)

    Software team is already small to the point where they can't keep up with what they touted as a differentiation selling point (day zero updates) and they've now changed it to "we try our best to provide..."

    The writings on the wall guys.

    Honestly it will take a miracle for TCL to turn the brand around.

    I know this sounds doom and gloom but that's not my point - it's that I feel bad for anyone buying the KEYone who's thinking they're going to get a typical os support (ie. At least one os version update). These folks aren't aware of what exactly they're buying into.

    For folks like yourself and others, who are aware of the risk - by all means do your BlackBerry thing. I only use their launcher on my android phones myself so I get it.

    Posted via CB10
    One thing that is worth recognizing is that TCL certainly has specific contractual terms with BlackBerry in terms of OS support, and the licensing fees probably cover the cost, so, in that sense, there might be a little less risk with the TCL products. However, if the business doesn't grow at some point over the next couple of years, all bets are off.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-02-17 08:52 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Look at Alcatel idol 4 still stuck in marshmallow and it was 2016 phone.
    So, none.
    07-02-17 09:07 PM
  11. Bay 13's Avatar
    One thing that is worth recognizing is that TCL certainly has specific contractual terms with BlackBerry in terms of OS support, and the licensing fees probably cover the cost, so, in that sense, there might be a little less risk with the TCL products. However, if the business doesn't grow at some point over the next couple of years, all bets are off.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    If TCL/BlackBerry has any intentions to
    update the K1 to Android O it would be good to throw that time frame out now. Tentative update O update Q1 2018 or Q2 2018. That will give buyers some reassurance that they are committed to
    yearly updates. Adding O would just bring them current with other OEM's that will release new phones with O. (LG V30, Pixel 2, Huawei Mate 10. Last Sept the LG V20 was the first phone to come with Android N. If K1 sales are low than they probably will not update to O.
    Last edited by Bay 13; 07-02-17 at 10:20 PM.
    07-02-17 09:10 PM
  12. ozdezignr's Avatar
    Came here looking for a recent answer about original post, looks like this one got derailed into a KeyOne debate...
    07-02-17 11:18 PM
  13. HughJarsse's Avatar
    What other TCL product that advertises quick updates are you using as a track record?
    Advertising them, and delivering them are two different things LOL!!
    07-03-17 10:16 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Advertising them, and delivering them are two different things LOL!!
    And TCL has no track record on either, so therefore nothing to predict the future - which is my point.
    07-03-17 10:30 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    We might consider the fact that TCL's agreement with BlackBerry guarantees a high level of service for BlackBerry Mobile devices, and that part of the reason for delays in the Priv and DTEKs is that the BlackBerry Android team are focused on those contract requirements to support the KEYone and upcoming devices.

    I will go out on a limb and forecast the following odds (based only on my business experience and common sense):

    Chances Priv receives Nougat: 50% (Historically, BlackBerry has delivered most upgrades that were viable for a device, so that has been their culture, but the Priv has already been upgraded once, in a world where a single version upgrade is fairly common.)

    Chances DTEK50 and DTEK60 receive Nougat: 75%. (For the same reasons as above, but I think these upgrades are more likely because the DTEKs launched with M.)

    Chances that the Priv and DTEKs continue to be patched regularly: 90%. (I've never seen BlackBerry not keep its word on something this substantial. It's regularly been over-optimistic and missed engineering deadlines, but I would argue that's evidence of good intentions outpacing ability to execute. (someone will mention the PlayBook I'm sure, but that seems to have had more to do with the HW limitation of the PlayBook making the BB10 experience unworkable.

    I'm sure some will disagree with me, but that's the whole point of these boards! :-)

    Priv upgrade to

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-03-17 10:46 AM
  16. anon(10123624)'s Avatar
    We might consider the fact that TCL's agreement with BlackBerry guarantees a high level of service for BlackBerry Mobile devices, and that part of the reason for delays in the Priv and DTEKs is that the BlackBerry Android team are focused on those contract requirements to support the KEYone and upcoming devices.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Can you provide proof of this guarantee in writing somewhere?
    07-03-17 11:33 AM
  17. anon(10123624)'s Avatar
    And TCL has no track record on either, so therefore nothing to predict the future - which is my point.
    You keep claiming that the Keyone is different, TCL is different and will perform better than the old "Blackberry" but you cannot provide any proof of this other than to say buy a Keyone .
    07-03-17 11:35 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Can you provide proof of this guarantee in writing somewhere?
    I have no idea what's in the license agreement, but it almost certainly is unambiguous in the terms.

    I was just saying we should consider the possibility.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-03-17 12:04 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You keep claiming that the Keyone is different, TCL is different and will perform better than the old "Blackberry" but you cannot provide any proof of this other than to say buy a Keyone .
    as I see it, the difference is simple:

    BlackBerry produced phones: BlackBerry decides what the upgrade policy is..

    TCL produced phones: TCL decides what the upgrade policy is, but must detail that policy in the license agreement with BlackBerry.

    We don't know what the policies are, but they are not set by the same entity.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-03-17 12:09 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    You keep claiming that the Keyone is different, TCL is different and will perform better than the old "Blackberry" but you cannot provide any proof of this other than to say buy a Keyone .
    I never said TCL would perform better. I just said it's their responsibility and that they have no relevant track record to offer predictions.

    All we know is that they aren't BlackBerry, and as such, any comparison is not useful.

    The only positive thing I said in this regard about TCL, is that their serious desire to gain market share in NA may align with our desire to see continued support.
    07-03-17 12:34 PM
  21. anon(10123624)'s Avatar
    I have no idea what's in the license agreement, but it almost certainly is unambiguous in the terms.

    I was just saying we should consider the possibility.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Consider the possibility that it may not be any better going forward also. Don't lead people on about guarantees in your statements if you have no facts to back them up.
    The facts are known of the history with Blackberry screwing customers with their devices.

    What is not known unless someone here can provide it in writing is these so called guarantees of TCL/BlackberryMobile being different than the past.
    Couver81 likes this.
    07-03-17 12:39 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Consider the possibility that it may not be any better going forward also. Don't lead people on about guarantees in your statements if you have no facts to back them up.
    The facts are known of the history with Blackberry screwing customers with their devices.

    What is not known unless someone here can provide it in writing is these so called guarantees of TCL/BlackberryMobile being different than the past.
    Definitely not trying to lead people on about anything. Why would I want to do that? I don't work for or own stock in BlackBerry or TCL, and I definitely don't care what phones people buy unless they work for me.

    We have no idea how TCL will perform, but their performance is wholly their own responsibility, not BlackBerry's. Last I checked, no phone manufacturer is guaranteeing Android OS version upgrades, and carriers are even worse. If that's an important criteria, buy from Google or take your chances.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-03-17 12:47 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Consider the possibility that it may not be any better going forward also. Don't lead people on about guarantees in your statements if you have no facts to back them up.
    The facts are known of the history with Blackberry screwing customers with their devices.

    What is not known unless someone here can provide it in writing is these so called guarantees of TCL/BlackberryMobile being different than the past.

    Umadbro? Don't go doing anything rash, it's just a phone...

    I don't see anywhere in bb10adopter111 post about guarantees or leading people on. We're all just discussing and giving opinions?
    07-03-17 05:41 PM
  24. anon(10123624)'s Avatar
    Umadbro? Don't go doing anything rash, it's just a phone...

    I don't see anywhere in bb10adopter111 post about guarantees or leading people on. We're all just discussing and giving opinions?
    Please go back and read his post. He says they "guarantee" and the conversation didn't involve you.
    krazyatom likes this.
    07-03-17 05:50 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This is a thread and I'm free to participate in the discussion. If you don't like it, report it...got it???
    07-03-17 05:58 PM
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