03-27-18 10:49 AM
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  1. moonflyer's Avatar
    I cannot boot my DTEK60 - it stucks at the green-textish "BlackBerry BootLoader Menu" (fastboot?) saying "MODE: PRODUCT" next to it. There are four options to select the way the boot process continues a bit lower.

    In general, I had the September 2017 security update installed, and I brought my phone to the current state while trying to install the November Security update.

    A few key points that I can recall:

    1. I got the notification about the November security update and I was not able to apply it. I just got the message "Not enough space to download". See https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...space-1131879/ for more details.
    2. The DTEK application was reporting that integrity of my OS is broken (I suspect that the state of OS went beyond expected by the BB Android OS release testers and developers after I accidentally changed the "Set GSM/ UMTS band" setting and fixed it using fastboot . More details at https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb.../#post13069767 );
    3. My attempts to perform the factory reset every time resulted in short screen dimming for around 2 to 5 seconds and nothing was changing in the phone state even after the reboot.
    4. So I backed up everything from the phone manually ( ) and decided to apply the latest available autoloader being ready that the device will not boot up completely.


    Now I am looking at the "BlackBerry BootLoader Menu" menu after the latest available to me autoloader (AAL158) application, hoping that at some point of time there will be one more autoloader for DTEK60.

    As for now, HELLO MY DEAR LOVELY FRIENDLY Z30, I MISSED YOU SO-O-O-O MUCH!!!!!


    P.S. I would like to be involved in the current BB Android OS development somewhere defining either Continuous Integration or Continuous Delivery stage, as I think that even my skills will be enough to improve the quality of the final product NOTABLY. Currently the BlackBerry Android OS looks like a god-given to me, meaning that its quality is not adequate to be used by humans. The main problem might be that some of the mixed solutions interact like they are mutually exclusive, so clearly the integration testing part is missing something.
    12-07-17 08:51 AM
  2. thurask's Avatar
    For whatever reason the DTEK50 and DTEK60 are in support limbo; while BB has offloaded support onto BB Mobile/TCL, nobody seems to have told TCL. That is why autoloaders after AAL158 don't exist, since TCL is supposed to have their mobile upgrade tool on their website and did for about half a day once, but they don't. Loading AAL158 onto any recent OS soft-bricks the phone.

    As it stands, if you want to unbrick a DTEK50/DTEK60 you'll have to send it in to TCL. Cross your fingers their repair staff isn't as incompetent as their software support staff.
    12-07-17 09:16 AM
  3. scubafan's Avatar
    This is the 1st thread I've seen where someone other than me is saying that BlackBerry may have their name on the device but they are unwilling to provide ANY support!

    Even though we bought the DTEKs from shop BlackBerry, and there's no physical fault on the device they refuse to help in any way. The same thing happened earlier this year with the wife's Priv. I was contemplating asking on the Priv thread about asking how to find & use an autoloader, but I haven't decided yet if I want to risk getting her even angrier if I brick it...

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    12-07-17 09:27 AM
  4. moonflyer's Avatar
    As it stands, if you want to unbrick a DTEK50/DTEK60 you'll have to send it in to TCL. Cross your fingers their repair staff isn't as incompetent as their software support staff.
    I cannot send it to TCL for two reasons:
    1. the device is out of warranty;
    2. TTBOMK, there is no official support for BlackBerry in my country (Ukraine).

    One way out for me is to wait until BlackBerry Android is sufficiently hacked.
    Another way out is to sell the device with the full story on a hack-market and get a replacement.

    From my point of view, the version of BB Android for DTEK60 is already full of vulnerabilities that even I can slip on accidentally causing the device to brick as a result of software misconfiguration.

    I guess, sooner or later a major problem will be discovered and BB Mobile will be set on fire trying to fix it, consequently issuing a full autoloader. Though it might take an indefinite amount of time. And, surely, as "the paths of the Lord are inscrutable", so as for now I just have to accept that getting DTEK60 was a sufficient experience with Android.

    I will be STRONGLY advertising to stay FAR-FAR AWAY from Android, even from the BlackBerry version... As, even the Android was adopted by BlackBerry, the taste is still bitter. I suppose I cannot even imagine HOW MANY problems are there inside the Android OS...
    12-07-17 10:04 AM
  5. mellowjellow's Avatar
    Is it possible to pull os from device by using adb.? I remember doing it on rooted device , not sure if it works on non rooted ones.

    Asking in general.
    12-09-17 01:39 AM
  6. moonflyer's Avatar
    Is it possible to pull os from device by using adb.? I remember doing it on rooted device , not sure if it works on non rooted ones.

    Asking in general.
    I have explored my DTEK60 using ADB and found that there are numerous places forbidded even to enter. So unless the vendor decides to provide an option to "extract OS", I doubt it will be easy to achieve if at all.
    12-09-17 03:25 AM
  7. tickerguy's Avatar
    Is it possible to pull os from device by using adb.? I remember doing it on rooted device , not sure if it works on non rooted ones.

    Asking in general.
    Nope.
    12-09-17 07:18 AM
  8. moonflyer's Avatar
    "Up". If mods kindly allow for upping till an autoloader becomes available, I'll stick to it.
    12-13-17 02:31 PM
  9. JoeBerlin's Avatar
    Hello guys. I'm also inside bootloader menu loop now with my dtek60 after flashing with last available autoloader AAL158.
    Blackberry support dont give any answer. ADB driver dont work. I'm happy with the device, just need alternative autoloader.
    moonflyer likes this.
    12-14-17 05:56 AM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    Hello guys. I'm also inside bootloader menu loop now with my dtek60 after flashing with last available autoloader AAL158.
    Blackberry support dont give any answer. ADB driver dont work. I'm happy with the device, just need alternative autoloader.
    Contact BlackBerry Mobile support instead of old BlackBerry? Worth a shot.
    12-14-17 09:39 AM
  11. moonflyer's Avatar
    Contact BlackBerry Mobile support instead of old BlackBerry? Worth a shot.
    Can you please extend your hint to meet my situation? I am currently looking at options at BlackBerry KEYone - Official website - Support - Contact us and see the following limitations:
    1) Ukraine is not on the list of countries and generic Europe is not available ;
    2) DTEK60 is not available as a selection option .

    The hotline service BlackBerry KEYone - Official website - Support - Hotline & service center also does not have Ukraine as an option and no Europe. Which country centre WILL service my request?
    12-14-17 01:39 PM
  12. thurask's Avatar
    Can you please extend your hint to meet my situation? I am currently looking at options at BlackBerry KEYone - Official website - Support - Contact us and see the following limitations:
    1) Ukraine is not on the list of countries and generic Europe is not available ;
    2) DTEK60 is not available as a selection option .

    The hotline service BlackBerry KEYone - Official website - Support - Hotline & service center also does not have Ukraine as an option and no Europe. Which country centre WILL service my request?
    Officially the DTEKs are TCL's problem now, but since nothing this company does makes sense, and if you haven't already, contact BlackBerry (Limited) support. They, at least on paper, have a Europe support line, as well as online support that knows what a DTEK60 is.

    NA Toll Free: 1-877-255-2377
    UK Toll Free: 0808 100 7466
    Europe: +44 1753 558400
    Worldwide: +1-647-426-1108
    moonflyer likes this.
    12-14-17 01:54 PM
  13. moonflyer's Avatar
    Officially the DTEKs are TCL's problem now, ...
    I wish I saw this article a lot earlier... And transferring responsibility in the middle of devices' life cycle was really unpredictable. So in this case BlackBerry shares with TCL the blame for problems with DTEK60.
    12-15-17 01:35 AM
  14. dirk_ddiggler's Avatar
    I wish I saw this article a lot earlier... And transferring responsibility in the middle of devices' life cycle was really unpredictable. So in this case BlackBerry shares with TCL the blame for problems with DTEK60.
    You have 2 choices:

    You take the blue pill: You wake up to find a K1 or Motion in your hand. You ignore the truth and you don't care what anyone else says. You will stick by BB/TCL forever.

    You take the red pill: You realize you have choices and you give your money to those who treat you best.

    It's your choice.
    12-15-17 06:55 AM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    Note that this sort of bad behavior is NOT limited to BlackBerry. LG has done the same thing with certain carrier versions of the V20; if you get hosed and have one of those you're dead for the same reason (no "current" debrick file is available.) For others (e.g. T-Mobile's version) there IS a published load file, but if you're on some other carrier's version where there isn't one and only OTA updates are available, well...... oops!
    12-15-17 06:50 PM
  16. moonflyer's Avatar
    Note that this sort of bad behavior is NOT limited to BlackBerry. LG has done the same thing with certain carrier versions of the V20; if you get hosed and have one of those you're dead for the same reason (no "current" debrick file is available.) For others (e.g. T-Mobile's version) there IS a published load file, but if you're on some other carrier's version where there isn't one and only OTA updates are available, well...... oops!
    Well-well, we are now down to comparing BlackBerry Mobile/TCL with some puny ODM-ish products of LG. I'll just keep hoping that this is an overstatement...
    12-16-17 03:23 AM
  17. moonflyer's Avatar
    You have 2 choices:

    You take the blue pill: You wake up to find a K1 or Motion in your hand. You ignore the truth and you don't care what anyone else says. You will stick by BB/TCL forever.

    You take the red pill: You realize you have choices and you give your money to those who treat you best.

    It's your choice.
    Among other ( not two-pilled ) options, I found that I can step back to Z30 for now and look for a ways to poke painfully reputation of BlackBerry/TCL so they pick up the pace and get well-mannered again. Here enough people should act, but with the attitude from TCL observed it might take not that much time. I will be VERY-VERY HAPPY if we get enough people unhappy with the situation to file a class action somewhere in US or(and?) Canada.

    Both KEYone and Motion in a few months might face the same issues as DTEK60 now. Nothing is notably different in TCL's messages from my point of view. I might be not well informed, but unfortunately this is the only vendor that provides hardware root of trust on an Android device and a few other things. I'll be A LOT happier when/if BBry will start licensing their Android technologies to other vendors.
    12-16-17 03:36 AM
  18. tickerguy's Avatar
    Well-well, we are now down to comparing BlackBerry Mobile/TCL with some puny ODM-ish products of LG. I'll just keep hoping that this is an overstatement...
    It is not.

    The really bad news is that this is spreading and will become universal. Delta updates OTA have made it "easy" and Google is pushing it as well with their new "architecture" where skinning (think things like Samsung's hideous TouchWiz) can be left alone while the OS is updated.

    That, plus the trust store on pretty much every Qualcomm processor made in the last five+ years, means that a locked bootloader and the processor qfuses (write-once increment registers + tamper detection) make this easy for manufacturers, carriers and OEMs. Write-once qfuse registers can either be increment-only permitted (physically impossible to decrement them) or bit-wise registers that can be turned on (think hardware/firmware variant flags) but never back off, and the newer processors have both in the trust store with only SOME of them mapped into processor memory space. Once the bootloader has transferred control the non-mapped ones are physically inaccessible to the CPU and thus can't even be read. Tamper detect by the way makes it especially dangerous to play around trying to hack your way in as if the bootloader catches you doing it the loader can blow the tamper fuse and that cuts power to the CPU -- permanently.
    12-16-17 06:28 AM
  19. moonflyer's Avatar
    The really bad news is that this is spreading and will become universal. Delta updates OTA have made it "easy" and Google is pushing it as well with their new "architecture" where skinning (think things like Samsung's hideous TouchWiz) can be left alone while the OS is updated.
    Ok, the news are bad indeed. But to the best of my knowledge devices by Google currently CAN DOWNGRADE, while BlackBerry Android ones refuse to do it... This makes one hell of a difference...
    12-16-17 07:23 AM
  20. irakli kh's Avatar
    I have same problem I need september october or november autoloader for dtek 60 it's stucked in bootloader (((( can anyone help with autoloaders?!

    Irakli kha
    12-16-17 07:38 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    I have same problem I need september october or november autoloader for dtek 60 it's stucked in bootloader (((( can anyone help with autoloaders?!

    Irakli kha
    Send to BlackBerry for repair.
    12-16-17 07:44 AM
  22. tickerguy's Avatar
    Ok, the news are bad indeed. But to the best of my knowledge devices by Google currently CAN DOWNGRADE, while BlackBerry Android ones refuse to do it... This makes one hell of a difference...
    Only until Google decides to start blowing those qfuses too, and I suspect they will because the security issues they patch are REAL.

    T-Mobile used to leave them alone but they've started doing it now with LG devices..... it's spreading (Knox will set a "Tamper" bit on Samsungs these days, although they've yet to go as far as blowing the tamper qfuse -- which hard-bricks the CPU), and while the built-in "root of trust" is very good from a standpoint of stopping people from breaking into your device (and hard-bricking it if they get too aggressive in trying) it's extremely bad in situations like this because if there is no "bulk loader" the device will accept in its current qfused state you're flat-out hosed as there's no way to reload it with something the bootloader will start. I don't know if the Knox "tamper" detection results in a qfuse state-set but I wouldn't be surprised if it does (and if so, that's permanent too.)
    12-16-17 07:50 AM
  23. moonflyer's Avatar
    Only until Google decides to start blowing those qfuses too...
    So, basically, BlackBerry Mobile/TCL in this aspect is _objectively_ THE WORST company. Shame on me for buying DTEK60 being fooled by the good old brand. The brand is a goner...
    12-19-17 08:30 AM
  24. tickerguy's Avatar
    Meh.

    Want things like AndroidPay (and SamsungPay, and PNCPay, and all those other nice financial apps) on your phone? Then you need an environment said companies are comfortable with in security posture.

    This means things like ARB, locked bootloaders, etc.

    Unfortunately this has some ugly side effects. One of them is that due to the basically-universal view of devices as not being "yours", nor do you have any right to change how they work (where did THAT come from?) you have that same set of security measures making it impossible to use an /etc/hosts file to very simply and effectively block ads, for example.

    The answer to that problem is NOT to get rid of the security environment. It's to demand and ENFORCE that YOU own your device and everything on it. It means forcing Google to cut the crap, in short, and allow local ad-blocking (which has no security implication whatsoever) -- and which the mobile companies do not want because it causes you to run more data, which they bill you for (thus you need to buy a "bigger" package.)

    The perversity of this reality is that unless you watch streaming video the majority of traffic to and from your handset is probably advertising -- and you paid for every single byte that was delivered to you.

    Ain't that special?
    12-19-17 10:03 AM
  25. moonflyer's Avatar
    Meh.
    ...
    Your comment does not change the fact that the current BlackBerry Mobile/TCL fails to keep up with own promices, and DTEK60 is a decent illustration.

    Also, BTW, your comment has little to do with my topic. You aren't trying just to "make the last positive post in the thread", are you?
    12-20-17 04:54 AM
32 12

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