[JeepBB]

I will wade in on this conversation, with my limited knowledge (much like the others here) I was of the understanding that the DTek 50 and 60 were designed and built by others. The PassPort, Priv et al were designed in house, but still not built expressly by BlackBerry, but by companies like Foxconn, Wiscon, etc, for BlackBerry. If I understood what Chen said, and that is a huge gamble, the potential next physical Keyboard device will still be designed in house (the last one from what we can surmise), and of course, built by others, much like all the other recent devices.

Yes.

Currently BB takes all the risks. Regardless of who designs it, BB tells their chosen manufacturer (Foxconn, TCL, etc) to build x phones and pays the manufacturer $$$ for those phones. If those phones don't sell, BB alone is on the hook for the entire cost... TCL aren't liable in any way, they built the number BB asked them for and have already been paid.

Which is why the Mercury prototype is on Chen's desk awaiting his decision on whether to build it. If BB decide to ask TCL to build a million of them, but only sell 100k, then BB (not TCL) will lose a lot of money.

It's also why BB are done with this production model and want to move to licencing. Currently there is one licensee, in Indonesia. The Indonesian company will pay BB for as much of its IPR as it wants, and will build as many phones as it thinks it can sell. BB won't be involved at all in the production and marketing of that licenced phone, and Chen has made clear that BB won't pay a penny towards the 3rd party's costs. So, there is zero risk to BB under the licence, and BB stands to make money from the licence the 3rd party buys, and a per phone royalty on every phone the 3rd party sells. If the phone doesn't sell, the 3rd party (not BB) will lose money.

Chen is smart.

But, I'm OK if you don't believe me either.

[John Albert]

I like reading your comments, JeepBB.
Very logical indeed.

So, who is gonna hold the responsibility of distribution and warranty of DTEK60?

I don't think TCL because Chen didn't mention them as a partner besides the highly hyped Indonesian company.

[JeepBB]

I like reading your comments, JeepBB.
Very logical indeed.

So, who is gonna hold the responsibility of distribution and warranty of DTEK60?

I don't think TCL because Chen didn't mention them as a partner besides the highly hyped Indonesian company.

Thanks.

The DTEK60 is built by TCL on BB's behalf under the existing arrangements. They're not truely a "partner" in any real sense because they bare no risk, they're just the manufacturer. It's a straight cash deal. It's BB's phone, and BB are responsible for distribution and warranty. Its exactly why nobody looks to Foxconn when their iPhone breaks - that's Apple's phone, which just happens to be built by Foxconn, and it's Apples sole responsibly.

So, TCL aren't a licensee. And may never become one unless TCL think they can make money from putting BB's logo on their own products.

On a positive note, I think the D60 has already been built and is sitting in a BB warehouse somewhere. There's too much evidence for it coming for it not to appear. Especially as BB has already paid TCL for the production... it would make no sense for BB not to try and recoup those costs. So, I'm sure the D60 will come, and soon.

The Mercury though... I doubt Chen will take the risk. Maybe a licensee would be interested in building the Mercury if BB licenced the design... If that happened the 3rd party Mercury would be distributed and warrented by the licensee ... and if it broke, you'd go to the 3rd party (not BB).

[RobertP1]

Levels of production is a major concern of every manufacturer. How many to make and when to make them.... HUGE decisions that can make or break a company

[JeepBB]

Levels of production is a major concern of every manufacturer. How many to make and when to make them.... HUGE decisions that can make or break a company

Agreed.

Case in point: The overproduction of the Z10 was a major factor in why BB is where it is now.

[kjtaylor1]

Chen has been pretty honest with what he's doing, maybe too much so. Some may say he's been lying, but he's followed through. He said he would focus on enterprise, build up software and exit hardware if it didn't make a profit. I think the only failing on his part is that he tried to keep hardware alive, while not knowing exactly what to do with it long-term.

My worry with the DTEK60 and BlackBerry's "exit" of hardware is how much longer they can devote resources to maintaining updates. Two years would be fine, as with other Android manufacturers, but if BlackBerry is out, what obligation is there? To appease customers who bought the hardware, who in the long term won't be buying more anyway, as they don't have anything new to sell?

He has been clear about leaving hardware if it does not make a profit. However, how aggressively has he attempted to make a profit on the hardware side? People STILL think BlackBerry is no longer producing handsets. If consumers don't know something exists, how can you expect them to purchase it? People know when the next iPhone or Samsung S??? are going to be released. We still don't know when the DTEK 60 will hit the market. And, if the diehard customers don't know, how will the cell phone buying public know? Just my 0.02 worth.

[conite]

He has been clear about leaving hardware if it does not make a profit. However, how aggressively has he attempted to make a profit on the hardware side? People STILL think BlackBerry is no longer producing handsets. If consumers don't know something exists, how can you expect them to purchase it? People know when the next iPhone or Samsung S??? are going to be released. We still don't know when the DTEK 60 will hit the market. And, if the diehard customers don't know, how will the cell phone buying public know? Just my 0.02 worth.

That's why they are licencing future handsets to partners who will produce, market, and sell to their own region and customers.

BlackBerry simply can't afford blanket advertising.

[ray689]

That's why they are licencing future handsets to partners who will produce, market, and sell to their own region and customers.

BlackBerry simply can't afford blanket advertising.

I think what the person you responded to was saying is Chen gave himself a deadline over a year ago but did nothing during that year to actually try and make a profit on handsets. Kind of leads me to believe his decision was already made and he is just riding out the commitments they made to a the dtek devices because it's pretty clear he doesn't even care about those. They have barely done anything besides a few tweets about the dtek50 and likely the same for the dtek60. It's a joke really.

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[conite]

I think what the person you responded to was saying is Chen gave himself a deadline over a year ago but did nothing during that year to actually try and make a profit on handsets. Kind of leads me to believe his decision was already made and he is just riding out the commitments they made to a the dtek devices because it's pretty clear he doesn't even care about those. They have barely done anything besides a few tweets about the dtek50 and likely the same for the dtek60. It's a joke really.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

They were really only prepared to directly market through their enterprise channel anyway. I don't think they ever planned on more than that. When the carriers dropped support, this new business model was inevitable.

[ray689]

They were really only prepared to directly market through their enterprise channel anyway. I don't think they ever planned on more than that. When the carriers dropped support, this new model was inevitable.

Right so the decision on handsets was already made when he set his "deadline" because through those channels they weren't going to get to profitability as he claimed he was trying to do.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[conite]

Right so the decision on handsets was already made when he set his "deadline" because through those channels they weren't going to get to profitability as he claimed he was trying to do.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Sure. Although they had already started the transition anyway after the Priv.

[Nguyen1]

Dtek60 will come out. Bank on it. Mercury however may not. From a business standpoint, it may not make sense to Chen to release it. If Chen is sentimental or feeling generous, mercury might appear

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

[ray689]

Dtek60 will come out. Bank on it. Mercury however may not. From a business standpoint, it may not make sense to Chen to release it. If Chen is sentimental or feeling generous, mercury might appear

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

Then maybe Thurber should stop saying a PKB device is coming.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Resilience]

Dtek60 will come out. Bank on it. Mercury however may not. From a business standpoint, it may not make sense to Chen to release it. If Chen is sentimental or feeling generous, mercury might appear

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

It will come out.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Nguyen1]

Well, I have my money ready to give to BlackBerry for the mercury, but history has taught me not to believe them until I have the actual product in my hand.

Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE

[JeepBB]

Then maybe Thurber should stop saying a PKB device is coming.

Strangely, I actually believe what Thurber said ... except what he said isn't what many people here on CB have been regularly misquoting.

"There will still be a keyboard-based BlackBerry device, designed and distributed within the next six months,", he said.

Much as the CB hype went into overdrive. Thurber did not say the Mercury was coming (the sole prototype is on Chen's desk AFAIK). He also didn't say that this device would be designed or distributed by BlackBerry either (so, not the Mercury again, which is designed and is still sitting on Chen's desk).

We already know that the Indonesian licensee is planning an Android phone (Chen said as much in the ER). To me, Thurber's statement is pointing towards that licensed phone as being a PKB'd Android device.

There is a faint chance that Chen will sell (under licence) the Mercury design to the Indonesian company, so that Indonesians will have the chance to enjoy what might have been... but that's a long way from certain IMO. Chen has already said that he doesn't expect to release this licensed phone anywhere else... so the rest of the world is probably out of luck, or reliant on grey imports. Good luck with the warranty on that...

[slagman5]

Strangely, I actually believe what Thurber said ... except what he said isn't what many people here on CB have been regularly misquoting.

"There will still be a keyboard-based BlackBerry device, designed and distributed within the next six months,", he said.

Much as the CB hype went into overdrive. Thurber did not say the Mercury was coming (the sole prototype is on Chen's desk AFAIK). He also didn't say that this device would be designed or distributed by BlackBerry either (so, not the Mercury again, which is designed and is still sitting on Chen's desk).

We already know that the Indonesian licensee is planning an Android phone (Chen said as much in the ER). To me, Thurber's statement is pointing towards that licensed phone as being a PKB'd Android device.

There is a faint chance that Chen will sell (under licence) the Mercury design to the Indonesian company, so that Indonesians will have the chance to enjoy what might have been... but that's a long way from certain IMO. Chen has already said that he doesn't expect to release this licensed phone anywhere else... so the rest of the world is probably out of luck, or reliant on grey imports. Good luck with the warranty on that...

Wow, it's really come down to this level of interpretation? Do we get a prize for having the correct speculation or something? Why are we so eager to share what we individually speculate to be the truth? He was asked about sales of BB phones as a whole, not specifically for Indonesia. Could he have been talking about that? Yes, but would it have been a relevant answer to the question at hand? No. So if this proves to be the case then Thurber is no better than the politicians up there making all of these claims and then saying that the word "is" doesn't mean what "is" normally means or whatever... Let's just wait and see instead of playing the typical CB psychic game...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[JeepBB]

Why are we so eager to share what we individually speculate to be the truth?

Ah, it's a quiz!

I love quizzes.

Erm... perhaps it's because this is a discussion forum?

What prize do I win?

[ray689]

Strangely, I actually believe what Thurber said ... except what he said isn't what many people here on CB have been regularly misquoting.

"There will still be a keyboard-based BlackBerry device, designed and distributed within the next six months,", he said.

Much as the CB hype went into overdrive. Thurber did not say the Mercury was coming (the sole prototype is on Chen's desk AFAIK). He also didn't say that this device would be designed or distributed by BlackBerry either (so, not the Mercury again, which is designed and is still sitting on Chen's desk).

We already know that the Indonesian licensee is planning an Android phone (Chen said as much in the ER). To me, Thurber's statement is pointing towards that licensed phone as being a PKB'd Android device.

There is a faint chance that Chen will sell (under licence) the Mercury design to the Indonesian company, so that Indonesians will have the chance to enjoy what might have been... but that's a long way from certain IMO. Chen has already said that he doesn't expect to release this licensed phone anywhere else... so the rest of the world is probably out of luck, or reliant on grey imports. Good luck with the warranty on that...

True but unless the licence is already in place for a PKB device, it's doubtful Thurber would be that confident that a PKB device is coming. So chances are, it is the rumoured Mercury.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[slagman5]

Ah, it's a quiz!

I love quizzes.

Erm... perhaps it's because this is a discussion forum?

What prize do I win?

Lol, you dug real deep into what was said to find some obscure interpretation of it. I think that goes well beyond mere discussion...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

True but unless the licence is already in place for a PKB device, it's doubtful Thurber would be that confident that a PKB device is coming. So chances are, it is the rumoured Mercury.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

Oh, but if you play it back in slow motion, you'll realize that there might have been a comma in there and in fact he could have been talking about a sunken Japanese submarine off the coast of California.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[conite]

Lol, you dug real deep into what was said to find some obscure interpretation of it. I think that goes well beyond mere discussion...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I think he has it right though.

With Chen implying he hasn't decided on his own Mercury yet, and Thurber stating there WAS going to be a pkb device, the only logical conclusion is that a licensed model is in the works and may, in fact, be the only one to see the light of day.

[ray689]

I think he has it right though.

With Chen implying he hasn't decided on his own Mercury yet, and Thurber stating there WAS going to be a pkb device, the only logical conclusion is that a licensed model is in the works and may, in fact, be the only one to see the light of day.

Thurber didn't say there WAS one, he said there is one within 6 months. If that is true, a licence deal would be already in place as they can't just make it happen over night. And if there was one already in place, likely would have been announced at the earnings call as well.

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[conite]

Thurber didn't say there WAS one, he said there is one within 6 months. If that is true, a licence deal would be already in place as they can't just make it happen over night. And if there was one already in place, likely would have been announced at the earnings call as well.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

That's exactly what I said: "...was going to be..."

Except there was no reason for him to be specific this early on.

[ray689]

That's exactly what I said: "...was going to be..."

Except there was no reason for him to be specific this early on.

True but ibjust can't see them having a device sitting on their desk to just pivot and try to get a licence from someone for a PKB device considering if someone is to licence it meaning they would be responsible to both design a d manufacturing as already stated by BlackBerry, they would require more then 6 months to go through that whole process.

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