08-28-17 11:14 PM
62 123
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'm sick of people acting like blackberry operates in a vacuum. they have to compete against other vendors. every other Vendor updates the OS in a more timely fashion than BlackBerry. no one has a phone with the specs of the DTEK60 running Android 6.0.

    I don't care what a software Agreement says. I care what I'm being offered and what other competition offers for the same price. I, like most consumers, will evaluate what's available and pick the best deal. and in my opinion, the best deal does not include getting left behind with os updates or security patches.

    BlackBerry either needs to compete or get left behind. I was hoping this new rebirth of BlackBerry with Android would be an opportunity to start fresh but the way they have handled the DTEKs is a joke.
    BlackBerry already made the decision not to compete, after losing billions of dollars since launching BB10. They couldn't make a profitable business out of smartphones in the age of iOS and Android.

    Now we'll see if TCL/Blackberry Mobile can do any better. Certainly to win market share in a crowded market they will need to fire on all cylinders, including meeting customer expectations for OS upgrades. BlackBerry itself will have a small, but critical role to play as their Android engineering team. But all the decisions going forward, for better and worse, Will be made by BlackBerry Mobile, not BlackBerry.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-22-17 10:19 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BlackBerry already made the decision not to compete, after losing billions of dollars since launching BB10. They couldn't make a profitable business out of smartphones in the age of iOS and Android.

    Now we'll see if TCL/Blackberry Mobile can do any better. Certainly to win market share in a crowded market they will need to fire on all cylinders, including meeting customer expectations for OS upgrades. BlackBerry itself will have a small, but critical role to play as their Android engineering team. But all the decisions going forward, for better and worse, Will be made by BlackBerry Mobile, not BlackBerry.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    All decisions? Maybe within the boundaries of their contract... but even then I expect BlackBerry and BlackBerry Mobile are working closely. Enterprise is the KEY, and right now BlackBerry holds that KEY as they have the existing/past customer contacts along with a way to promote BlackBerry Mobile with the UEM business.

    Very smart move on BlackBerry Mobile part to pick up the DTEKs "support" to patch up the brands image.
    08-23-17 07:39 AM
  3. yyz321's Avatar
    What does this mean? New devices will be out replacing these ones?
    08-23-17 08:35 AM
  4. Xerograv's Avatar
    Blackberry sold the dteks with ads that said monthly updates, that's why I bought it over a pixel (and price, and I'm a long time BB user) no where did they say android N, except here where most of us thought with the specs of the dtek60 it would receive the is update. the reality is they stole our money knowing they were giving over to TCL blackberry mobile. If they are abandoning the devices after 5 months they should have given me some money back to buy a KEYone... period
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    08-23-17 09:05 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Blackberry sold the dteks with ads that said monthly updates, that's why I bought it over a pixel (and price, and I'm a long time BB user) no where did they say android N, except here where most of us thought with the specs of the dtek60 it would receive the is update. the reality is they stole our money knowing they were giving over to TCL blackberry mobile. If they are abandoning the devices after 5 months they should have given me some money back to buy a KEYone... period
    All of the terms of the sale still apply. What you receive for your purchase in terms of the device, warranty and software/support don't change. When Fiat bought Jeep, people didn't get money for free cars.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    08-23-17 09:18 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Blackberry sold the dteks with ads that said monthly updates, that's why I bought it over a pixel (and price, and I'm a long time BB user) no where did they say android N, except here where most of us thought with the specs of the dtek60 it would receive the is update. the reality is they stole our money knowing they were giving over to TCL blackberry mobile. If they are abandoning the devices after 5 months they should have given me some money back to buy a KEYone... period
    Nothing has been abandoned. TCL has simply assumed responsibility going forward. Its website indicates updates are coming. This is a good thing.
    ptaylor10 likes this.
    08-23-17 09:34 AM
  7. tonythecanuck's Avatar
    What does this mean? New devices will be out replacing these ones?
    That's exactly what I want to know:

    1) software OS update to OREO?

    Or

    2) new device?

    Any ideas?
    08-23-17 01:33 PM
  8. thurask's Avatar
    Since the DTEKs are now TCL's problem, creating the support pages for them on BlackBerry Mobile's site is reflective of that. The "Mobile Upgrade Tool" will be the same deal as the same tool for the KEYone, i.e. a desktop tool to download factory images and load them onto a bricked/uncooperative phone.
    zephyr613 likes this.
    08-23-17 01:42 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Since the DTEKs are now TCL's problem, creating the support pages for them on BlackBerry Mobile's site is reflective of that. The "Mobile Upgrade Tool" will be the same deal as the same tool for the KEYone, i.e. a desktop tool to download factory images and load them onto a bricked/uncooperative phone.
    I think you're right. So, at a minimum it will enable easier updates for people having problems with not receiving OTA patches.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-23-17 02:21 PM
  10. thurask's Avatar
    I think you're right. So, at a minimum it will enable easier updates for people having problems with not receiving OTA patches.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    It will have no bearing on the frequency or future possibility of OTA updates, though.
    08-23-17 02:48 PM
  11. chi-town311's Avatar
    Perfect, no I can go back to complaining knowing that there is basically a 0% chance of an OS update coming. This glimmer of hope was really dragging my down.

    By the way, is everyone still stuck on June? What month is it?
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    08-23-17 03:41 PM
  12. ferrcad's Avatar
    June here....
    08-23-17 04:12 PM
  13. giantrobo's Avatar
    In this case, it's the customers who created the expectations by making assumptions they would receive Android version upgrades that were never mentioned by BlackBerry. Then, they blame BlackBerry for not delivering something that was never promised.

    It's like ordering a meal in a restaurant and complaining when the restaurant doesn't serve you additional dishes for free, then posting on social media that it's a bad restaurant. ROFL

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    It's like ordering a drink in a restaurant and getting three refills only to find out that they never told you that they charge for refills. Or they tell you after you have had your first cup so you've had the best 3$ soda in your life hopefully. Sure Blackberry never committed to OS upgrades but it is expected for a flagship device to receive at least one. Pathetic.
    Imagine if "your trusty Z10" was stuck on 10.0 and never updated aside from security patches in the vein of 10.3.3 for the rest of its life. There is a reason why places in the USA state on menus if they charge for refills. Why? Because it's the norm.. The same way most flagship devices getting one major OS update is the norm. I know people who simply wouldn't have bought their DTEK60 if they thought they would be stuck on android M.
    You have enough money to throw it down the drain on abandoned hardware. We get that. Stop trying to talk down to the people who do actually care about what they bought. This isn't some 100$ POS. It's a phone expensive enough that I've managed to buy fully functional cars for less or the same price.
    Last edited by giantrobo; 08-23-17 at 09:57 PM.
    08-23-17 09:40 PM
  14. ferrcad's Avatar
    Once promising, now 404 not found this morning... They were maybe just teasing us...

    http://www.blackberrymobile.com/support/dtek60/
    08-24-17 06:38 AM
  15. Willieray3's Avatar
    Once promising, now 404 not found this morning... They were maybe just teasing us...

    http://www.blackberrymobile.com/support/dtek60/
    Probably because yesterday I sent in a support ticket on that page and ask about the DTEK 60 July update lol
    08-24-17 06:53 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Probably because yesterday I sent in a support ticket on that page and ask about the DTEK 60 July update lol
    In creating it, the Web designer probable just copied the KEYone page..... and there was never any intent for Future Upgrades.

    Would think updates for the DTEKS would be a very wise move on TCL part to help them build the image of a long term solution. So they might have just pulled the pages to wait for some official announcement.
    08-24-17 07:37 AM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's like ordering a drink in a restaurant and getting three refills only to find out that they never told you that they charge for refills. Or they tell you after you have had your first cup so you've had the best 3$ soda in your life hopefully. Sure Blackberry never committed to OS upgrades but it is expected for a flagship device to receive at least one. Pathetic.
    Imagine if "your trusty Z10" was stuck on 10.0 and never updated aside from security patches in the vein of 10.3.3 for the rest of its life. There is a reason why places in the USA state on menus if they charge for refills. Why? Because it's the norm.. The same way most flagship devices getting one major OS update is the norm. I know people who simply wouldn't have bought their DTEK60 if they thought they would be stuck on android M.
    You have enough money to throw it down the drain on abandoned hardware. We get that. Stop trying to talk down to the people who do actually care about what they bought. This isn't some 100$ POS. It's a phone expensive enough that I've managed to buy fully functional cars for less or the same price.
    Your assumption that Android smartphones get updated with the new OS is simply that. Not all companies do it. I'm fine with the restaurant example. I would not assume that a restaurant provides free refills just because many do. And I certainly wouldn't assume that if only 6% did, which bis the case with Android phones.

    13% of Android phones are running Nougat. Over half of those shipped with Nougat, so only 6.5% of Android phones have been upgraded to Nougat. You're part of the 87% that haven't.

    I think it would be great if the standard evolves to what you want, and that all phones are upgraded to the current version of Android. But the vast majority are not today. This is not unique to BlackBerry.

    Your assumption that BlackBerry would upgrade its phones, considering their precarious status in mobile, was not based on objective information. That's all I'm saying.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-24-17 09:12 AM
  18. hawkessales's Avatar
    Probably because yesterday I sent in a support ticket on that page and ask about the DTEK 60 July update lol
    Lol....I did the same and was issued a support ticket ......Blackberry Mobile has also removed any reference to the Dteks on the site.
    08-24-17 09:29 AM
  19. chi-town311's Avatar
    Your assumption that Android smartphones get updated with the new OS is simply that. Not all companies do it. I'm fine with the restaurant example. I would not assume that a restaurant provides free refills just because many do. And I certainly wouldn't assume that if only 6% did, which bis the case with Android phones.

    13% of Android phones are running Nougat. Over half of those shipped with Nougat, so only 6.5% of Android phones have been upgraded to Nougat. You're part of the 87% that haven't.

    I think it would be great if the standard evolves to what you want, and that all phones are upgraded to the current version of Android. But the vast majority are not today. This is not unique to BlackBerry.

    Your assumption that BlackBerry would upgrade its phones, considering their precarious status in mobile, was not based on objective information. That's all I'm saying.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I'm not sure I believe you numbers here. 13% are running Nougat, but a significant number could have been released with Lollipop. Any phone that was released with Lolliop should not be considered in a comparison to the DTEK60. The question is, of phones released with Marshmallow, what percentage have been upgraded to Nougat? And within that group, how many were $500 plus phones marketed as "higher-end" phones?

    I would bet that the DTEK60 is the most expensive phone released with Marshmallow that did not receive Nougat.

    Basically every major phone with a Snapdragon 820 processor has been updated to Nougat. I get it, they are not obligated to update the phone, but to say that it is not a reasonable expectation is BS. People who spend $500 plus on a phone expect this level of support.

    Here is a list of popular phones with the Snapdragon 820 processor. Many came out before the DTEK60. I'm sure it is not complete, but it covers what I think are the most popular phones with the 820:

    Samsung Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge - upgraded to Nougat
    Samsung Galaxy S7 Active - upgraded to Nougat
    LG V20 - released with Nougat before the DTEK60 was released
    LG G5 - upgraded to Nougat
    HTC 10 - upgraded to Nougat
    OnePlus 3 - upgraded to Nougat (Oxygen OS)
    Moto Z and Moto Z Force - upgraded to Nougat
    Sony Xperia X Performance - upgraded to Nougat
    Sony Xperia XZ - upgraded to Nougat
    Sony Xperia XZs - upgraded to Nougat
    ASUS ZenFone 3 Deluxe - released with Nougat
    08-24-17 10:16 AM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Every one of the companies you listed have mobile phone operations 10x or larger that of Blackberry's when their phones were sold. You're comparing the consumer service provided by industry giants to a company that released 1 or 2 consumer products a year that sold in small volumes.

    I'm saying that expecting BlackBerry to do what those companies do may seem rational to you but does not to me. When you buy a small volume product from a small company that has publicly said over and over that it might exit the business you should incorporate the risk that they will do what they said they might into your expectations of support.

    Buying a BlackBerry phone has been a risk for more than five years. The fact that they may not be throwing good money after bad in a market they abandoned shouldn't be surprising to a rational human being.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-24-17 10:31 AM
  21. chi-town311's Avatar
    Every one of the companies you listed have mobile phone operations 10x or larger that of Blackberry's when their phones were sold. You're comparing the consumer service provided by industry giants to a company that released 1 or 2 consumer products a year that sold in small volumes.

    I'm saying that expecting BlackBerry to do what those companies do may seem rational to you but does not to me. When you buy a small volume product from a small company that has publicly said over and over that it might exit the business you should incorporate the risk that they will do what they said they might into your expectations of support.

    Buying a BlackBerry phone has been a risk for more than five years. The fact that they may not be throwing good money after bad in a market they abandoned shouldn't be surprising to a rational human being.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Except Oneplus... maybe

    It was BlackBerry's choice to make the volume as small as they made it. According to what I've seen on this site, they made the smallest run possible so they could shift gears to BlackBerry Mobile. They appear to have no strategy to manage their customers that purchased the DTEK phones.

    They should have decided not to throw good money at bad before they released the DTEK60. As far as I'm concerned, they committed themselves to a reasonable level of support (including updating the OS and maintaining the patches) when they sold the first device. If they didn't want to do that, they should have just bought the contract out with TCL and not made the devices. Another option, sell at a discount and make it clear the device would not be updated in line with the PRIV or the Keyone. If you recall, the PRIV was released with Lollipop and later upgraded to Marshmallow with all patches released on time. In my opinion, it would make sense to assume that same level of support.
    08-24-17 10:47 AM
  22. SandKicker760's Avatar
    One + is far from a "giant" ...For now that is, they are coming on strong.
    08-24-17 11:02 AM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You are entitled to your opinion about what constitutes "reasonable" expectations.

    Personally, if I have expectations about a significant purchase, I make sure it's guaranteed in writing. Then I can enforce an agreement if my expectations aren't met.

    I just find that a lot easier to manage.

    Also, companies produce volumes to match demand forecasts. Producing larger volumes doesn't help if the demand is limited.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-24-17 11:05 AM
  24. chi-town311's Avatar
    You are entitled to your opinion about what constitutes "reasonable" expectations.

    Personally, if I have expectations about a significant purchase, I make sure it's guaranteed in writing. Then I can enforce an agreement if my expectations aren't met.

    I just find that a lot easier to manage.

    Also, companies produce volumes to match demand forecasts. Producing larger volumes doesn't help if the demand is limited.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I generally agree with your comment on matching demand forecasts, but....

    Based on what I have seen on these forums, BlackBerry cut production on DTEKs because they were pivoting to a licensing strategy. They only placed the order to fulfill the minimum requirements of their previous agreement with TCL. If that is true, then the volume was not based on a demand forecast.
    08-24-17 02:44 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I generally agree with your comment on matching demand forecasts, but....

    Based on what I have seen on these forums, BlackBerry cut production on DTEKs because they were pivoting to a licensing strategy. They only placed the order to fulfill the minimum requirements of their previous agreement with TCL. If that is true, then the volume was not based on a demand forecast.
    I hadn't heard that. But it also sounds odd, because I never saw any stock outs of the DTEKs. I guess it's possible that they could have sold for a longer period if there had been more inventory.

    Honestly, at this point I think we've both articulated two valid, contrasting opinions about the lack of a clear future for version upgrades for BlackBerry's three Android phones. I'm not sure if there is anything to add.

    Personally, I'd like to see the Priv and DTEK phones upgraded to Oreo. I think our best hope for that would be that the BlackBerry dev and testing group could focus all their attention on a single set of monthly patches. Our best hope for version updates would be if there was an economic justification for them.

    Perhaps the total $ saved plus the value of the revenue lost to a decrease in good will might come close to the development costs.




    Posted with my trusty Z10
    chi-town311 likes this.
    08-24-17 03:11 PM
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