12-02-16 06:46 AM
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  1. Sire Fred's Avatar
    I am willing to buy either a DTEK60 or a Priv to replace my old Z10 from 2013 (almost 4 years!). I like the DTEK60 specs but I'm a bit worried about the camera? 21 MPX is nice but it seems to have little magic to help it shines. Could the lack of optical image stabilization hinders the camera performances serously? Thanks for your comments.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-16 08:45 PM
  2. sonicpix's Avatar
    Pixel count does not automatically mean better photos. There are other factors that affect quality.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-16 08:51 PM
  3. John Albert's Avatar
    I am willing to buy either a DTEK60 or a Priv to replace my old Z10 from 2013 (almost 4 years!). I like the DTEK60 specs but I'm a bit worried about the camera? 21 MPX is nice but it seems to have little magic to help it shines. Could the lack of optical image stabilization hinders the camera performances serously? Thanks for your comments.

    Posted via CB10
    Try to watch it's review from a reliable source before buying. Like GSMArena, The Verge, PhoneArena... Etc..

    Higher number of Megapixel s doesn't necessarily mean a better image.
    teslatradeup likes this.
    10-11-16 09:08 PM
  4. Randal Yandal's Avatar
    Best to wait for Blazes review. Odds are the dtek60's camera is good just like the privs. One thing is for sure the front facing camera on the dtek will be miles better.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-11-16 09:08 PM
  5. Randal Yandal's Avatar
    Try to watch it's review from a reliable source before buying. Like GSMArena, The Verge, PhoneArena... Etc..

    Higher number of Megapixel s doesn't necessarily mean a better image.
    LOL...The verge is LITERALLY not a reliable source at all. Jesus...

    The Verge's mobile reviewers are literally some of the worst, most ignorant, incompetent smartphone reviewers around. They even had a editor(former mobile show guy btw) who secretly worked for apple for 2months behind The Verges back. Awful tech site.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-11-16 09:09 PM
  6. tickerguy's Avatar
    I am willing to buy either a DTEK60 or a Priv to replace my old Z10 from 2013 (almost 4 years!). I like the DTEK60 specs but I'm a bit worried about the camera? 21 MPX is nice but it seems to have little magic to help it shines. Could the lack of optical image stabilization hinders the camera performances serously? Thanks for your comments.

    Posted via CB10
    OIS *mostly* helps video. It is of benefit for still shots too, but not nearly as much.

    Let's go over (quickly) what OIS does and how it works. OIS places a voice-coil around one or more of the lens elements, much like that used for a speaker. The gyro in the phone is energized and the voice-coil is used to attempt to keep the image cast by the lens in the same place on the sensor (by moving its focal point left/right/up/down) even though the handset itself is moving slightly.

    To get a good image the projection of the image by the lens on the sensor must not move during the time the shutter is open. If it does then the image is blurred, even if it is in proper focus. OIS allows for a *stationary* object to be captured at a slower shutter speed than is otherwise possible because it works to help nullify (within its operating range) camera shake. This in turn translates into superior lower-light performance for non-moving subjects, all other things being equal.

    OIS does exactly *zero* to improve the ability to shoot any subject that is moving. This includes essentially any shot of people in "real life" (e.g. anything other than a "posed shot"), shots of animals, sports, etc.

    Where OIS *really* matters is when shooting video because ideally when shooting video you want a relatively low (1/30th to 1/60th) shutter speed. Higher shutter speeds look unnatural, almost robotic. But that relatively low shutter speed means *any* movement of the camera translates into a "shaky" video and since a smartphone is a small device it's very hard to hold it completely still, or when panning such a shot to do so smoothly.

    Remember, however, that OIS increases the complexity of the camera assembly since the voice coil on the lens is an additional moving part, it makes the camera materially more-susceptible to damage from physical shock and it increases the camera module's size. Nonetheless it is a good thing.

    Will the lack of OIS hinder camera performance? In some circumstances, yes, but not nearly as much as you might think. The far-bigger improvement in modern smartphone cameras over OIS came when they figured out how to do PDAF (phase detection autofocus) entirely in-sensor, a capability that used to be available only through dedicated focus sensors in a dSLR. PDAF is important for quick and accurate focus lock because it allows the camera to know which direction to move the focusing elements to achieve focus and by how much in a single action, rather than having to use successive-approximation which is how the previous (contrast-detection) method worked.
    Uzi, so crow, brian4591 and 8 others like this.
    10-12-16 07:16 AM
  7. Sire Fred's Avatar
    Thanks for your advices. I think I'll wait for some credible reviews. I hope it will have optical image stabilization. We have three young children and I 'm eager to take great pictures and videos of them. If the reviews about the camera are just average, then I'll go for the Priv. My two Brother bought a Priv and the camera really rocks!

    Posted via my old warrior, my BlackBerry Z10!
    tonythecanuck and Rico4you like this.
    10-12-16 07:20 AM
  8. Julesan's Avatar
    I don't think it will have OIS. I believe it's identical to camera in Xperia M5 (TCL950 has the same imx 230 sensor) which you can see comparisons to ip6s I believe on you tube. Look like very good photo results.


    Posted via CB10
    10-12-16 07:27 AM
  9. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I'm a photography hobbist and I do feel that camera tech is very important in modern smartphones.

    I don't think the dtek60 camera will be any better compared to the priv for multiple reasons.

    Packed sensor 21mpx vs 18mpx, this means that the low light gathering potential of each pixel is reduced.

    Most of the flagships now use only 12mpx larger sensors for this exact reason.

    Lack of OIS means faster shutter speeds which is not good for static low light photography.

    Again almost all flagships have OIS including blackberry since the passport. Even the smaller iphone7 now includes OIS.

    The lens and sensor combo is not nearly as impressive as the privs with its scheneider lens.

    The aperture of the lens is 2.0 vs 1.8 or lower compared to other flagships too.

    Also the camera sensor used it's a Sony IMX230 which is already 2 years old.

    But I hope I'll be surprised, in the end hardware is half the story. The software will decide if it's a decent enough shooter. But I won't be on the top end of DXO mark results eitherway.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    howarmat, Bay 13 and tonythecanuck like this.
    10-12-16 07:30 AM
  10. Sire Fred's Avatar
    Wow! Thanks for all the great technical comments. I really learned a lot by reading them. I hope too that the DTEK60's camera will be better than it's seems . Right now, the Priv seems to have the edge.

    Posted via my old soldier, my BlackBerry Z10!
    tonythecanuck likes this.
    10-12-16 08:41 AM
  11. tickerguy's Avatar
    I would expect them to be similar in the quality of image they produce, with a modest advantage in video​ mode going to the Priv (due to OIS)

    If the DTEK60 was to offer "RAW" mode, however, then for stills the game changes. RAW mode is always superior IF you can and wish to post-process because the down-sampling to JPEG always produces loss of data information that can never be recovered. You can recover very acceptable results from a RAW file that has exposure or subject-contrast problems to a surprising degree; that's usually impossible with a JPEG.

    You can never get back lost information, basically. Elements of an image that are either beyond all-white (blown out) or all-black (shadows that are lost) are forever gone always, but image compression, simply due to how it works, removes detail information and once gone, it's gone. RAW files are obviously unusable directly but being able to shoot with both being saved (as I can do on my 5d3) would be very nice. With my dSLR I never shoot in anything other than RAW and I live with the compromise that I must dump to a computer and process before I can use what I take. I wouldn't do that with RAW mode in a phone, obviously, but being able to capture *both* (so I can "immediately" share and post-process later if I wish) would be awesome, especially if I could save to different directories (and thus have, for example, Dropbox upload one but not the other)
    tonythecanuck likes this.
    10-12-16 08:51 AM
  12. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I would expect them to be similar in the quality of image they produce, with a modest advantage in video​ mode going to the Priv (due to OIS)

    If the DTEK60 was to offer "RAW" mode, however, then for stills the game changes. RAW mode is always superior IF you can and wish to post-process because the down-sampling to JPEG always produces loss of data information that can never be recovered. You can recover very acceptable results from a RAW file that has exposure or subject-contrast problems to a surprising degree; that's usually impossible with a JPEG.

    You can never get back lost information, basically. Elements of an image that are either beyond all-white (blown out) or all-black (shadows that are lost) are forever gone always, but image compression, simply due to how it works, removes detail information and once gone, it's gone. RAW files are obviously unusable directly but being able to shoot with both being saved (as I can do on my 5d3) would be very nice. With my dSLR I never shoot in anything other than RAW and I live with the compromise that I must dump to a computer and process before I can use what I take. I wouldn't do that with RAW mode in a phone, obviously, but being able to capture *both* (so I can "immediately" share and post-process later if I wish) would be awesome, especially if I could save to different directories (and thus have, for example, Dropbox upload one but not the other)
    Although that would be cool I doubt it's gonna happen buddy.

    The ability to shoot in RAW is extremely niche as far as commercial smartphones are concerned.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    10-12-16 01:48 PM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Although that would be cool I doubt it's gonna happen buddy.

    The ability to shoot in RAW is extremely niche as far as commercial smartphones are concerned.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    What you don't think Instagram or FaceBook is working on allowing uploads of RAW images?

    I agree, if you are worried about lose image information and shooting in RAW mode... Then per DxOMark you should be using an iPhone 7 Plus or even better the Google Pixel. I know many enthusiast love tweaking images, and that RAW files are the best basis for doing that. But then you might as well start with the best camera hardware, and that won't be found on a TCL phone.
    10-12-16 02:18 PM
  14. Bay 13's Avatar
    I'm a photography hobbist and I do feel that camera tech is very important in modern smartphones.

    I don't think the dtek60 camera will be any better compared to the priv for multiple reasons.

    Packed sensor 21mpx vs 18mpx, this means that the low light gathering potential of each pixel is reduced.

    Most of the flagships now use only 12mpx larger sensors for this exact reason.

    Lack of OIS means faster shutter speeds which is not good for static low light photography.

    Again almost all flagships have OIS including blackberry since the passport. Even the smaller iphone7 now includes OIS.

    The lens and sensor combo is not nearly as impressive as the privs with its scheneider lens.

    The aperture of the lens is 2.0 vs 1.8 or lower compared to other flagships too.

    Also the camera sensor used it's a Sony IMX230 which is already 2 years old.

    But I hope I'll be surprised, in the end hardware is half the story. The software will decide if it's a decent enough shooter. But I won't be on the top end of DXO mark results eitherway.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Hey...I am not a Techie. Question? Why does the Priv Camera has the German company Schneider-Kreuznach on exterior of the glass if it is a Sony camera?
    10-12-16 05:25 PM
  15. tickerguy's Avatar
    Branding and who made the lens system they are using.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Bay 13 and tonythecanuck like this.
    10-12-16 05:52 PM
  16. Bay 13's Avatar
    Thanks for the explanation...
    tonythecanuck likes this.
    10-12-16 08:02 PM
  17. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Pixel count does not automatically mean better photos. There are other factors that affect quality.

    Posted via CB10
    True... Especially in a small sensor, more megapixels means smaller induvidual pixels, wich can lead to lower light. Go wonder why top of the line phones like galaxy S7 have been downgrading to 12mp sensors with better results
    tonythecanuck likes this.
    10-13-16 07:29 PM
  18. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I am willing to buy either a DTEK60 or a Priv to replace my old Z10 from 2013 (almost 4 years!). I like the DTEK60 specs but I'm a bit worried about the camera? 21 MPX is nice but it seems to have little magic to help it shines. Could the lack of optical image stabilization hinders the camera performances serously? Thanks for your comments.

    Posted via CB10
    If you don't care about the physical keyboard in the priv, get the Dtek60. I doubt the camera is much worse than the priv since the Priv is 1 year old. But the snapdragon 820 is way better chip than the 808. Faster, less consumption, and maybe more important doesn't overheat nearly as much.

    I value the PKB too much to give away my priv, but if you don't, the Dtek60 might be a no brainer
    10-13-16 07:31 PM
  19. smcv's Avatar
    Here are some DTEK60 vs Priv camera hardware factoids....

    -DTEK60 is 21MP, Priv is 18MP (both actually use the same Sony sensor, but Priv's optics were designed for a slightly smaller 16MP sensor originally, and so when we made a switch over during development to a newer generation 21MP sensor, the corners were not fully covered. Hence the unique 18MP resolution)

    -Priv has OIS, and DTEK60 does not. OIS helps extend exposure time and reduce blur induced by hand-shake in photos. Allows Priv to get the same sharpness at 1/10s exposure time as DTEK60 gets at 1/30s. There will be a bit more noise on the DTEK60 than the Priv for this reason. That said, and as someone alluded to above, OIS doesn't help at all if your subject is moving -- on Passport, we actually let exposure time drop to 1/5.. noise performance was great, but we had some negative feedback when people tried to take pictures of their kids who wouldn't sit still in low light

    -DTEK60 uses zero-shutter-lag mode. Priv does not. This leads to a drastic improvement in capture speed -- I measured Priv at 720ms with the latest camera app, and DTEK60 at 170ms! (measured from the moment your finger leaves the shutter button to the moment the picture is displayed in the thumbnail window). It feels VERY VERY fast!

    -AF performance -- Priv should win out here since it doesn't use zero-shutter-lag mode, it can run the viewfinder almost twice the framerate that DTEK60 does, and so focus is faster in bright conditions. In dimmer light, they will perform about the same.

    -Both have dual-tone LED flashes, but Priv's are more powerful, and so you can get more light onto subjects further away from the lens.

    -Both support full manual controls - ISO, shutter speed, white balance, focus, exposure compensation.

    -Both support up to 4K video @ 30fps, 1080p @ 60fps, and 720p @ 120fps slow motion.

    -and of course, DTEK60 has an 8MP selfie camera, vs the 2MP one on Priv.

    On a non-camera note, the Snapdragon 820 processor in the DTEK60 has better performance than the 808 in the Priv, and is much better thermally.
    thurask, Uzi, Sigewif and 6 others like this.
    10-25-16 09:06 PM
  20. DroidBerryGuy's Avatar
    Here are some DTEK60 vs Priv camera hardware factoids....

    -DTEK60 is 21MP, Priv is 18MP (both actually use the same Sony sensor, but Priv's optics were designed for a slightly smaller 16MP sensor originally, and so when we made a switch over during development to a newer generation 21MP sensor, the corners were not fully covered. Hence the unique 18MP resolution)

    -Priv has OIS, and DTEK60 does not. OIS helps extend exposure time and reduce blur induced by hand-shake in photos. Allows Priv to get the same sharpness at 1/10s exposure time as DTEK60 gets at 1/30s. There will be a bit more noise on the DTEK60 than the Priv for this reason. That said, and as someone alluded to above, OIS doesn't help at all if your subject is moving -- on Passport, we actually let exposure time drop to 1/5.. noise performance was great, but we had some negative feedback when people tried to take pictures of their kids who wouldn't sit still in low light

    -DTEK60 uses zero-shutter-lag mode. Priv does not. This leads to a drastic improvement in capture speed -- I measured Priv at 720ms with the latest camera app, and DTEK60 at 170ms! (measured from the moment your finger leaves the shutter button to the moment the picture is displayed in the thumbnail window). It feels VERY VERY fast!

    -AF performance -- Priv should win out here since it doesn't use zero-shutter-lag mode, it can run the viewfinder almost twice the framerate that DTEK60 does, and so focus is faster in bright conditions. In dimmer light, they will perform about the same.

    -Both have dual-tone LED flashes, but Priv's are more powerful, and so you can get more light onto subjects further away from the lens.

    -Both support full manual controls - ISO, shutter speed, white balance, focus, exposure compensation.

    -Both support up to 4K video @ 30fps, 1080p @ 60fps, and 720p @ 120fps slow motion.

    -and of course, DTEK60 has an 8MP selfie camera, vs the 2MP one on Priv.

    On a non-camera note, the Snapdragon 820 processor in the DTEK60 has better performance than the 808 in the Priv, and is much better thermally.
    So your preference would be? LOL
    Sigewif and smcv like this.
    10-25-16 09:14 PM
  21. John Albert's Avatar
    Here are some DTEK60 vs Priv camera hardware factoids....

    -DTEK60 is 21MP, Priv is 18MP (both actually use the same Sony sensor, but Priv's optics were designed for a slightly smaller 16MP sensor originally, and so when we made a switch over during development to a newer generation 21MP sensor, the corners were not fully covered. Hence the unique 18MP resolution)

    -Priv has OIS, and DTEK60 does not. OIS helps extend exposure time and reduce blur induced by hand-shake in photos. Allows Priv to get the same sharpness at 1/10s exposure time as DTEK60 gets at 1/30s. There will be a bit more noise on the DTEK60 than the Priv for this reason. That said, and as someone alluded to above, OIS doesn't help at all if your subject is moving -- on Passport, we actually let exposure time drop to 1/5.. noise performance was great, but we had some negative feedback when people tried to take pictures of their kids who wouldn't sit still in low light

    -DTEK60 uses zero-shutter-lag mode. Priv does not. This leads to a drastic improvement in capture speed -- I measured Priv at 720ms with the latest camera app, and DTEK60 at 170ms! (measured from the moment your finger leaves the shutter button to the moment the picture is displayed in the thumbnail window). It feels VERY VERY fast!

    -AF performance -- Priv should win out here since it doesn't use zero-shutter-lag mode, it can run the viewfinder almost twice the framerate that DTEK60 does, and so focus is faster in bright conditions. In dimmer light, they will perform about the same.

    -Both have dual-tone LED flashes, but Priv's are more powerful, and so you can get more light onto subjects further away from the lens.

    -Both support full manual controls - ISO, shutter speed, white balance, focus, exposure compensation.

    -Both support up to 4K video @ 30fps, 1080p @ 60fps, and 720p @ 120fps slow motion.

    -and of course, DTEK60 has an 8MP selfie camera, vs the 2MP one on Priv.

    On a non-camera note, the Snapdragon 820 processor in the DTEK60 has better performance than the 808 in the Priv, and is much better thermally.
    So all in all, which camera you think perform better?
    10-25-16 09:15 PM
  22. Patrick Pierobon's Avatar
    PRIV camera was garbage at first until some updates came out in the months after. The latest October update has made it really good I find.
    10-25-16 09:20 PM
  23. meshock's Avatar
    currently waiting for more sample shots
    10-25-16 10:21 PM
  24. Pinot2015's Avatar
    currently waiting for more sample shots
    Look at the sticky section in this forum
    10-25-16 10:42 PM
  25. mikedolo's Avatar
    the priv is the perfect blackberry that shows why they failed in hardware. overpriced for the specs it came with.
    10-26-16 06:53 AM
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