01-22-18 06:54 PM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Exactly.

    BlackBerry did represent that the DTEKs would get Nougat. There's not a legal case here, but there sure is a consumer revolt case. Attempting to force people to buy a new phone to get Nougat before their DTEK would be retired for other reasons is both foolish and worthy of retribution by BlackBerry's customers who bought the DTEK series devices.

    It's foolish for one simple reason -- with non-user-replaceable batteries and 600Mhz spectrum coming online there are already two reasons for someone to upgrade in the next couple of years. If you destroy good will by not keeping your promises then the odds of a customer buying another handset from TCL/BlackBerryMobile are ZERO.

    Attempting to force an early upgrade purchase is a losing proposition. You brand yourself as a liar at the outset, which is never a good position for a vendor to be in, and further some people will (quite-justifiably) take that to be an act of attempted extortion.

    Given that there are two organic reasons for people to buy upgrades in the first place this is just flat-out dumb. While I'm sure the cost of putting Nougat on these devices is not zero the damage to the firm's reputation extends far beyond the owners of those units as you can't keep the knowledge of that failure to them alone.

    Personally, I still like my DTEK60, but yes, the 600Mhz band openings will eventually force a replacement with something else, because the enhanced coverage will make it worth doing. If TCL/BlackBerryMobile does not upgrade the DTEK60 to Nougat in a reasonably contemporary fashion then I will not be buying any further hardware from them.

    For me it's that simple.
    Where did they represent DTEK would get Nougat? Provide a link and I'll help setup the complaint here in the USA with the appropriate regulators. Others would have even better success in EU and we'll get our upgrade.

    I don't think you'll find anything remotely enforceable let alone strongly implied.
    08-15-17 06:13 PM
  2. fadein's Avatar
    News and an explanation today is that all future updates for DTEK seris will come from BlackBerry mobile per UTB. Excellent read about this (although lengthy)


    The BlackBerry DTEK50 and DTEK60 Now Part of TCL Licensing Agreement - UTB Blogs
    I'm sorry if I missed that this quite relevant and important news seen on UTB Blogs was posted on Crackberry also but I searched here and did not find it. Is there a reason that it has not been mentioned on Crackberry? Apologies again if I missed it.

    Z30
    08-16-17 11:02 AM
  3. thurask's Avatar
    I'm sorry if I missed that this quite relevant and important news seen on UTB Blogs was posted on Crackberry also but I searched here and did not find it. Is there a reason that it has not been mentioned on Crackberry? Apologies again if I missed it.

    Z30
    Most of it is opinion and/or conjecture. The letter itself is rather sparse on details (certifications for DTEK50 and DTEK60 are TCL's problem now), not much to get more than a paragraph out of it.
    08-16-17 11:48 AM
  4. Nathan Conley's Avatar
    I'm sorry if I missed that this quite relevant and important news seen on UTB Blogs was posted on Crackberry also but I searched here and did not find it. Is there a reason that it has not been mentioned on Crackberry? Apologies again if I missed it.

    Z30
    As to why CrackBerry hasn't reported on it, your guess is as good as mine.

    UTB Blogs does have a longstanding reliable history on all things BlackBerry. I was simply spreading it along.

    I suppose you could post in the Ask Blaze section.
    08-16-17 02:34 PM
  5. schumi_xtreme01's Avatar
    wow this one is still alive and kickin huh
    08-17-17 03:49 AM
  6. fadein's Avatar
    Most of it is opinion and/or conjecture. The letter itself is rather sparse on details (certifications for DTEK50 and DTEK60 are TCL's problem now), not much to get more than a paragraph out of it.
    As to why CrackBerry hasn't reported on it, your guess is as good as mine.

    UTB Blogs does have a longstanding reliable history on all things BlackBerry. I was simply spreading it along.

    I suppose you could post in the Ask Blaze section.
    Thank you for the answers guys.

    Z30
    08-18-17 10:41 AM
  7. vaim vaimov's Avatar
    We need a bootloader unlocker, bb must give it to us, if they abandoned dtek series... We can use other, really more security droid OS
    08-19-17 02:21 PM
  8. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    We need a bootloader unlocker, bb must give it to us, if they abandoned dtek series... We can use other, really more security droid OS
    There's a load of irony right there.
    08-19-17 02:38 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    We need a bootloader unlocker, bb must give it to us, if they abandoned dtek series... We can use other, really more security droid OS
    How will you load anything on it? The hardware will only allow you to install software signed by BlackBerry.
    08-19-17 03:29 PM
  10. vaim vaimov's Avatar
    How will you load anything on it? The hardware will only allow you to install software signed by BlackBerry.
    For it we need bootload unlocker
    08-19-17 03:32 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    For it we need bootload unlocker
    That's still not enough to bypass hardware root of trust.
    08-19-17 03:34 PM
  12. Centerman66's Avatar
    it was really pathetic to hear BlackBerry basically tell us to just buy the Keyone if we want the now old Nougat OS. I'm not that surprised I guess, but if that is their attitude, how about they buy my DTEK60 back and I'll then buy a Keyone
    I took their advice....sort of. Bought a new S8+.
    Couver81 likes this.
    08-19-17 03:51 PM
  13. Willieray3's Avatar
    I took their advice....sort of. Bought a new S8+.
    LMAO
    08-19-17 08:09 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    LMAO
    Nobody cares what phones we each buy, least of all BlackBerry or their shareholders, who can no longer make or lose much money in mobile hardware.

    You can't be disloyal to an ex who has already moved on!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-19-17 09:30 PM
  15. chi-town311's Avatar
    Nobody cares what phones we each buy, least of all BlackBerry or their shareholders, who can no longer make or lose much money in mobile hardware.

    You can't be disloyal to an ex who has already moved on!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    They can lose a lot of money maintaining an os for their partner. They need adequate sales to make their licensing revenue cover their cost of maintenence.

    Although it appears no one at blackberry cares about properly maintaining their android devices.
    08-19-17 09:42 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    They can lose a lot of money maintaining an os for their partner. They need adequate sales to make their licensing revenue cover their cost of maintenence.

    Although it appears no one at blackberry cares about properly maintaining their android devices.
    Licensing agreements like BB entered into with BBMo typically have the licensee covering all the associated costs. BB in this situation is just a vendor of BBMo that is being paid as subcontractor for the maintenance. In essence, BBMo is outsourcing to BB since in this case, they can't maintain the BB Android themselves. It's BBMo that needs adequate sales to cover the cost of maintenance. Another reason, BBMo probably won't pay to update PRIV or DTEK as they would only add expense with no additional revenue.
    08-19-17 10:06 PM
  17. chi-town311's Avatar
    Licensing agreements like BB entered into with BBMo typically have the licensee covering all the associated costs. BB in this situation is just a vendor of BBMo that is being paid as subcontractor for the maintenance. In essence, BBMo is outsourcing to BB since in this case, they can't maintain the BB Android themselves. It's BBMo that needs adequate sales to cover the cost of maintenance. Another reason, BBMo probably won't pay to update PRIV or DTEK as they would only add expense with no additional revenue.
    OK. So you have the agreement. Got it. Here are a few questions.

    So you are telling me that every cost for maintaining the os is passed along to the licensee? There is no cost control at all? Cost overruns all get passed along? To whom by the way? There are multiple devices and licensees?

    Or are you saying that licensees pay a fixed fee for maintenance? But BlackBerry just stops developing the OS when the money runs out?

    Don't most licensing deals pay out based on number of units sold?
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    08-20-17 08:52 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    OK. So you have the agreement. Got it. Here are a few questions.

    So you are telling me that every cost for maintaining the os is passed along to the licensee? There is no cost control at all? Cost overruns all get passed along? To whom by the way? There are multiple devices and licensees?

    Or are you saying that licensees pay a fixed fee for maintenance? But BlackBerry just stops developing the OS when the money runs out?

    Don't most licensing deals pay out based on number of units sold?
    There is no way BlackBerry would have entered into a license agreement that didn't involve a fixed fee to cover most of their expenses. Chen could never have sold that to the board.

    No one has to see the agreement to know how licensing works. If BlackBerry wanted to go "at risk" they would have started a joint venture with TCL instead if a licensing deal, so that the two companies shared the risks and rewards. As it is, BlackBerry almost certainly accepted very little chance for gain in return for very little downside risk. The whole point was to quit the business as much as possible.

    So, why didn't they just quit? Well, they were already committed to maintaining Android, so they were thrilled to have TCL cover most of the costs of their dev and testing team.

    This was a tactical deal to reduce costs more than a strategic deal to stay in handsets. If you don't see that, then I don't know what to say.

    You're almost certainly right that BlackBerry also receives a per handset fee, with or without a minimum to trigger it. But, it wouldn't be more than a few dollars so that they could benefit if TCL sold "tens of millions" of phones like John Chen said they are hoping for.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 08-20-17 at 12:40 PM.
    08-20-17 11:04 AM
  19. chi-town311's Avatar
    There is no way BlackBerry would have entered into a license agreement that didn't involve a fixed fee to cover most of their expenses. Chen could never have sold that to the board.

    No one has to see the agreement to know how licensing works. If BlackBerry wanted to go "at risk" they would have started a joint venture with TCL instead if a licensing deal, so that the two companies shared the risks and rewards. As it is, BlackBerry almost certainly accepted very little chance for gain in return for very little downside risk. The whole point was to quit the business as much as possible.

    So, why didn't they just quit? Well, they were already committed to maintaining Android, so they were thrilled to have TCL cover most of the costs of their dev and testing team.

    This was a tactical deal to reduce costs more than a strategic deal to stay in handsets. If you don't see that, then I don't know what to say.

    You're almost certainly right that BlackBerry also receives a per handset fee, with or without a minimum to trigger it. But, it wouldn't be more than a few dollars so that they could benefit if TCL sold "tens of millions" of phones like John Chen said they are hoping for.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    All makes sense to me, but regardless of how the deal works, whatever "fee" that they negotiated isn't covering the cost of maintaining the OS. Why? Cause they are consistently behind and the OS has more than a few bugs based on what I have seen. I don't have a Keyone, but it sure doesn't sound like BB is on top of the development side of the OS.

    My view is that all of this could be solved with money. More OS developers, more expertise. They don't seem to have the staff and knowhow to keep up with the updates. I don't think BB is just hoarding the "fee" and intentionally understaffing the project; I think they don't have enough money from the fee to get enough people (or the right people) to keep up with the project.
    08-20-17 03:10 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    All makes sense to me, but regardless of how the deal works, whatever "fee" that they negotiated isn't covering the cost of maintaining the OS. Why? Cause they are consistently behind and the OS has more than a few bugs based on what I have seen. I don't have a Keyone, but it sure doesn't sound like BB is on top of the development side of the OS.

    My view is that all of this could be solved with money. More OS developers, more expertise. They don't seem to have the staff and knowhow to keep up with the updates. I don't think BB is just hoarding the "fee" and intentionally understaffing the project; I think they don't have enough money from the fee to get enough people (or the right people) to keep up with the project.
    You may be right. Whatever the situation, the Android OS effort is a tiny part of their business now, in terms of head count, cost, priority, and revenue potential.

    I can't really say that bothers me, personally. My Priv is patched regularly and works great. What I care most about is work flow, which has a lot more to do with the Hub+ Suite than it does with Android or hardware specs. I still can't give Android better than a 7.5 compared to BB10 for speed and efficiency.

    That's why I'm back to BB10 for my daily driver, with the Priv in my bag just in case I need an Android app for something. (I have stopped putting Android apps on BB10, because it's become too much of a crap shoot whether they will work or not with every upgrade.) I still can't make a case for using Android over BB10 to get my work done.

    I would certainly pick up a DTEK60 without hesitation, if I needed an Android slab, and the KEYone will probably be my choice if and when I decide I need to switch to Android full time.
    Posted with my trusty Z10
    chi-town311 likes this.
    08-20-17 04:22 PM
  21. mellowjellow's Avatar
    You may be right. Whatever the situation, the Android OS effort is a tiny part of their business now, in terms of head count, cost, priority, and revenue potential.

    I can't really say that bothers me, personally. My Priv is patched regularly and works great. What I care most about is work flow, which has a lot more to do with the Hub+ Suite than it does with Android or hardware specs. I still can't give Android better than a 7.5 compared to BB10 for speed and efficiency.

    That's why I'm back to BB10 for my daily driver, with the Priv in my bag just in case I need an Android app for something. (I have stopped putting Android apps on BB10, because it's become too much of a crap shoot whether they will work or not with every upgrade.) I still can't make a case for using Android over BB10 to get my work done.

    I would certainly pick up a DTEK60 without hesitation, if I needed an Android slab, and the KEYone will probably be my choice if and when I decide I need to switch to Android full time.
    Posted with my trusty Z10
    You dont feel sluggish typing on your Z10 after using PRIV?
    08-20-17 11:07 PM
  22. vagos2006's Avatar
    It's coming. BBD100.
    What is BBD100?

    Posted via CB10
    08-20-17 11:43 PM
  23. vagos2006's Avatar
    Question. If the DTEK60 will be abandoned, what will replace the DTEK60? Is anew all touch coming? Still on my Z30 and need to upgrade,

    Posted via CB10
    08-20-17 11:45 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You dont feel sluggish typing on your Z10 after using PRIV?
    The Z10 is very, very quick for all its native functions. I just avoid Amazon and Google Android apps, which are not consistent enough in terms of performance.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-21-17 06:34 AM
  25. chi-town311's Avatar
    900 posts. amazing.
    08-21-17 10:26 AM
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