01-22-18 06:54 PM
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  1. anon(10123624)'s Avatar
    All the excuses in world will not change the DECEIT tcl and Blackberry conspired together to form a so called NEW COMPANY".

    TCL need to increase their marketshare what better way than to partner with a brand name.

    Now they are revenue generators for this website and their spokespeople who are pushing you to buy a keyone are worried that the brand name is tarnished and sales will tank no more revenue for them and no more phone updates for the phones they were fooled into buying.

    The keyone isn't even a good product just go read through the keyone forum. Hardware problems, software problems, some are even complaing of still being on April patch.

    Don't buy into the deceit and we need to save others from it who aren't aware of Blackberry and now Blackberry mobile with TCL as a partner. Post on your social media accounts, post on the youtube videos where they say it's a great product and most secure device. Tell people to avoid the deceit.

    Don't be fooled into the excuses any more. Their mobile products have changed from Rim, to Blackberry and now Blackberry Mobile with always the same promises and execuses the money still flows to the CEO and shareholders and they've continued to screw and fool consumers.

    Time to end that and make sure this ship sinks.
    HughJarsse and chi-town311 like this.
    07-01-17 02:18 AM
  2. dlmsd's Avatar
    This was a post about the continued misdirection of contractual obligations, who's responsible, the problem is in the user's expectations, etc but I have decided to dial it back from its original form.

    Either way, there's no lack of smoke, but whether that means a big fire remains to be seen.
    May I ask why? Thought we were all free thinkers here.

    If it is pertaining to BlackBerry, and the opinion of the poster that is about BlackBerry and companies handling, or supporting the Dtek60, I for one would like the see that smoke to draw my own conclusion. Thanks in advance.
    07-01-17 04:49 AM
  3. donnation's Avatar
    It's actually pretty simple. For BlackBerry Mobile/TCL phones (currently the KEYone) BlackBerry is a supplier of the software to TCL, but TCL provides the phone and the software to the customer. The customer only has a relationship with TCL, not with BlackBerry.

    It's the same as when you buy a car with components from many other companies. The auto manufacturer is the only company that the consumer has the relationship with. If there is a problem with the brake pads, the consumer doesn't go to the company that manufactured the brake pads, the consumer goes to either the manufacturer or the dealer who sold the car. The manufacturer can then go to the supplier of the brake pads for replacement or compensation.

    For previous phones, such as BBOS, BB10, the Priv and DTEK phones, BlackBerry was the manufacturer, so they were responsible for service and support. Customers who had problems with the Leap didn't have a right to deal with Foxconn, who actually manufactured the phone, because Foxconn was a supplier to Blackberry

    It doesn't matter who does the work. The only thing that matters is who has the contract with whom.

    Customer ==> Manufacturer ==> Supplier

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I understand all of that as we've established that TCL is responsible for the KEYone. I'm not disputing that in any way shape or form. What I'm asking is why is BB in your mind no longer culpable for the DTEK phones? Yes they are out of hardware, we all know. But they have new devices running out there that they built that are running their software, which they are very much still involved in.

    So to ask my question again, why is it ok that BlackBerry is offering software support for the K1, but not the DTEK? If the answer is just "They don't want to anymore" then I guess that's fine. But stating that you are out of the hardware business to me means that you aren't going to be making any more phones. It doesn't mean that you aren't going to support the phones you currently have out in the market that require it in order to make them secure, which was their total point of existence in the first place. Forever? No, but longer than just a few months.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    07-01-17 05:32 AM
  4. vladi's Avatar
    It's a classic case of hardware rebadge don't why are you expecting so much out of defunct DTEK brand.
    07-01-17 06:14 AM
  5. Willieray3's Avatar
    BlackBerry may well be liable for delivering patches regularly for their Android phones, but a missed deadline because the work is unpredictable is not the same as a deception. If they stop patching altogether, that's a different issue.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    They didn't miss it, they announced that it went out, but the Dtek60 didn't get it.
    chi-town311 likes this.
    07-01-17 06:55 AM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I understand all of that as we've established that TCL is responsible for the KEYone. I'm not disputing that in any way shape or form. What I'm asking is why is BB in your mind no longer culpable for the DTEK phones? Yes they are out of hardware, we all know. But they have new devices running out there that they built that are running their software, which they are very much still involved in.

    So to ask my question again, why is it ok that BlackBerry is offering software support for the K1, but not the DTEK? If the answer is just "They don't want to anymore" then I guess that's fine. But stating that you are out of the hardware business to me means that you aren't going to be making any more phones. It doesn't mean that you aren't going to support the phones you currently have out in the market that require it in order to make them secure, which was their total point of existence in the first place. Forever? No, but longer than just a few months.
    We'll probably never see Nougat. We'll see our security updates eventually and that's all. Just like with BB10, you will continue to get support, minimal support, but still meeting the legal definition of required support. Warranties are still honored..

    Don't act surprised, they said many times, how they were leaving hardware. Now reality is staring us in the face....
    07-01-17 07:02 AM
  7. Willieray3's Avatar
    We'll probably never see Nougat. We'll see our security updates eventually and that's all. Just like with BB10, you will continue to get support, minimal support, but still meeting the legal definition of required support. Warranties are still honored..

    Don't act surprised, they said many times, how they were leaving hardware. Now reality is staring us in the face....
    Security patches will continue to go downhill from here, yes they did exit the hardware side of the business, and now they are a software company. The funny thing is everyone is talking about software not coming from a software company.
    07-01-17 07:12 AM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I understand all of that as we've established that TCL is responsible for the KEYone. I'm not disputing that in any way shape or form. What I'm asking is why is BB in your mind no longer culpable for the DTEK phones? Yes they are out of hardware, we all know. But they have new devices running out there that they built that are running their software, which they are very much still involved in.

    So to ask my question again, why is it ok that BlackBerry is offering software support for the K1, but not the DTEK? If the answer is just "They don't want to anymore" then I guess that's fine. But stating that you are out of the hardware business to me means that you aren't going to be making any more phones. It doesn't mean that you aren't going to support the phones you currently have out in the market that require it in order to make them secure, which was their total point of existence in the first place. Forever? No, but longer than just a few months.
    I don't think I ever stated that BlackBerry had no responsibility for the DTEKs, but, as you say, their responsibilities are not unlimited. They are responsible for warranty support and for security patches for an unspecified period of time.

    The length of time is an open question. Many people say that industry norms are two years, but I tend to think that three years is more typical in an Enterprise setting.

    The next question is the missed deadlines for the patches.

    Some people shrug it off as variance in the engineering process. (Remember, the BlackBerry Android team is downstream from Google and has to analyze, develop and test any changes to Google's patches after they receive them, so the scope is undefined from month to month.)

    Others say the delays indicate incompetence, or a lack of commitment by BlackBerry.

    Still others say that BlackBerry intentionally deceived buyer of the DTEK phones.

    I have no special insight except to say that software development is notoriously hard to schedule, so that BlackBerry was probably naive in promising monthly patches when they couldn't control the scope of work.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 07:32 AM
  9. evodevo69's Avatar
    Just food for thought - BlackBerry "committed" to releasing the dtek50 and 60 as they also officially announced they would exit hardware.

    Does anyone remember what they (not just Chen) said as well - that BlackBerry devices wouldn't die but continue to be made via their new licensing model. In fact, they even spoke about the upcoming KEYone remember - they kept dropping hints "we have one more keyboard phone coming"...


    If you don't think that's "misleading" folks to believe they wouldn't wholesale just walk away from the dtek's, then I don't know what else to say.

    Based on the above, they never indicated they'd just exit hardware and leave their flagships as is lolll

    They very much implied they'd still be involved with phones - just via a different model...

    For people questioning TCL and the KEYone, just because they said they'll have "other phones" coming later - doesn't mean there will be a commitment by either TCL or BlackBerry - just using logic on my end based on the dtek50 and dtek60 experience.

    Waiting for the same people who kept reassuring people during the dtek50 and 60 launch and now saying and defending BlackBerry "oh they left hardware" to do the same thing in a year's time with TCL...hope I'm wrong but if KEYone doesn't sell and TCL loses money, don't expect them to keep taking a loss.

    I've already heard people say "TCL is releasing more phones, they're going to be committed for sometime" lolll man

    Just makes me shake my head! Loll

    Posted via CB10
    donnation and crackberry_geek like this.
    07-01-17 07:36 AM
  10. evodevo69's Avatar
    I don't think I ever stated that BlackBerry had no responsibility for the DTEKs, but, as you say, their responsibilities are not unlimited. They are responsible for warranty support and for security patches for an unspecified period of time.

    The length of time is an open question. Many people say that industry norms are two years, but I tend to think that three years is more typical in an Enterprise setting.

    The next question is the missed deadlines for the patches.

    Some people shrug it off as variance in the engineering process. (Remember, the BlackBerry Android team is downstream from Google and has to analyze, develop and test any changes to Google's patches after they receive them, so the scope is undefined from month to month.)

    Others say the delays indicate incompetence, or a lack of commitment by BlackBerry.

    Still others say that BlackBerry intentionally deceived buyer of the DTEK phones.

    I have no special insight except to say that software development is notoriously hard to schedule, so that BlackBerry was probably naive in promising monthly patches when they couldn't control the scope of work.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Well that could be true but I don't think you're accurate.

    Why? Because when it was just the Priv they were always day zero for the entire year or so it was out.

    It wasn't until the dtek60 launched and they had 3 devices out that the day zero patches got delayed.

    As well, they have zero issues getting the patches out the same day as Google on some of their phones...

    If your explanation were true, that it's due to being "downstream" and out of their control, I'd expect this to be true for all of their phones.

    It's so obvious to me, they simply do not have the man power to get the patches out on time for all of their phones.

    If you read books about what goes on behind the scenes in the tech industry, you'd know my explanation is likely more closer to the truth loll

    Reading through losing the signal rise and fall of BlackBerry and yes, believe it or not, it can absolutely be due to basic issues like incompetence or lack of enough people loll

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-17 07:45 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Just food for thought - BlackBerry "committed" to releasing the dtek50 and 60 as they also officially announced they would exit hardware.

    Does anyone remember what they (not just Chen) said as well - that BlackBerry devices wouldn't die but continue to be made via their new licensing model. In fact, they even spoke about the upcoming KEYone remember - they kept dropping hints "we have one more keyboard phone coming"...


    If you don't think that's "misleading" folks to believe they wouldn't wholesale just walk away from the dtek's, then I don't know what else to say.

    Based on the above, they never indicated they'd just exit hardware and leave their flagships as is lolll

    They very much implied they'd still be involved with phones - just via a different model...

    For people questioning TCL and the KEYone, just because they said they'll have "other phones" coming later - doesn't mean there will be a commitment by either TCL or BlackBerry - just using logic on my end based on the dtek50 and dtek60 experience.

    Waiting for the same people who kept reassuring people during the dtek50 and 60 launch and now saying and defending BlackBerry "oh they left hardware" to do the same thing in a year's time with TCL...hope I'm wrong but if KEYone doesn't sell and TCL loses money, don't expect them to keep taking a loss.

    I've already heard people say "TCL is releasing more phones, they're going to be committed for sometime" lolll man

    Just makes me shake my head! Loll

    Posted via CB10
    I think healthy skepticism is a good thing for all purchase decisions. There's no question that buying any BlackBerry is riskier than buying a phone from a major manufacturer. It's been that way for years.

    Caveat emptor is always the rule, and no one should count on any service not guaranteed in legally binding language.

    Personally, I find Blackberry's phones preferable to mainstream devices and don't mind the risks and limitations, but each buyer should decide for himself or herself.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 08:11 AM
  12. Bay 13's Avatar
    I think healthy skepticism is a good thing for all purchase decisions. There's no question that buying any BlackBerry is riskier than buying a phone from a major manufacturer. It's been that way for years.

    Caveat emptor is always the rule, and no one should count on any service not guaranteed in legally binding language.

    Personally, I find Blackberry's phones preferable to mainstream devices and don't mind the risks and limitations, but each buyer should decide for himself or herself.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I find the Blackberry phones preferable to mainstream devices also, kinda like driving a Alfa Romero in the United States instead of a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. People will ask you about your car like the Blackberry phones (Especially the Priv). People are getting tired of Blackberry idiosyncrasies (Lack of updates, 2016 processors in 2017 phones, lack of transparency with customers). I hope TCL will do better... but from what folks are sharing about bad customer service with the K1, it do not look promising.
    07-01-17 10:53 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I find the Blackberry phones preferable to mainstream devices also, kinda like driving a Alfa Romero in the United States instead of a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. People will ask you about your car like the Blackberry phones (Especially the Priv). People are getting tired of Blackberry idiosyncrasies (Lack of updates, 2016 processors in 2017 phones, lack of transparency with customers). I hope TCL will do better... but from what folks are sharing about bad customer service with the K1, it do not look promising.
    The Alfa Romeo analogy is pretty good. Owning an Alfa is unquestionably more complicated than owning a BMW or Mercedes, and no one buys them for their reliability and service record. But, for fans of Alfa Romeo, the pleasure of owning and driving one makes up for the hassles.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 11:13 AM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well that could be true but I don't think you're accurate.

    Why? Because when it was just the Priv they were always day zero for the entire year or so it was out.

    It wasn't until the dtek60 launched and they had 3 devices out that the day zero patches got delayed.

    As well, they have zero issues getting the patches out the same day as Google on some of their phones...

    If your explanation were true, that it's due to being "downstream" and out of their control, I'd expect this to be true for all of their phones.

    It's so obvious to me, they simply do not have the man power to get the patches out on time for all of their phones.

    If you read books about what goes on behind the scenes in the tech industry, you'd know my explanation is likely more closer to the truth loll

    Reading through losing the signal rise and fall of BlackBerry and yes, believe it or not, it can absolutely be due to basic issues like incompetence or lack of enough people loll

    Posted via CB10
    You may well be right. Especially with the KEYone launch I can see everyone on the Android team being tied up on that device.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 11:16 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Security patches will continue to go downhill from here, yes they did exit the hardware side of the business, and now they are a software company. The funny thing is everyone is talking about software not coming from a software company.
    That's because, of all their software products, their Android OS makes by far the least amount of money and almost certainly loses money.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 11:18 AM
  16. Bay 13's Avatar
    The Alfa Romeo analogy is pretty good. Owning an Alfa is unquestionably more complicated than owning a BMW or Mercedes, and no one buys them for their reliability and service record. But, for fans of Alfa Romeo, the pleasure of owning and driving one makes up for the hassles.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Loved the 86 Alfa Romero GTV 6...I am rooting for Blackberry Mobile (TCL). I am watching how they 1. Provide support and service to K1 owners. 2. If Blackberry will be consistent with security updates for TCL branded Blackberry phones. 3. The build quality of new hardware. At this time, some customers are having issues in all three areas. ( Waiting 10 days for support with K1 issues, some people say they have the April security patch on K1 and screen falling off and poor call quality, reception on some K1 devices.)

    I am gonna hold on to my Dtek 60 until Q1 2018, by then I hope Blackberry Mobile can solve some of the above mentioned problems and release a killer slab phone with competitive internals (No 2016 821 chip).
    07-01-17 11:25 AM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Loved the 86 Alfa Romero GTV 6...I am rooting for Blackberry Mobile (TCL). I am watching how they 1. Provide support and service to K1 owners. 2. If Blackberry will be consistent with security updates for TCL branded Blackberry phones. 3. The build quality of new hardware. At this time, some customers are having issues in all three areas. ( Waiting 10 days for support with K1 issues, some people say they have the April security patch on K1 and screen falling off and poor call quality, reception on some K1 devices.)

    I am gonna hold on to my Dtek 60 until Q1 2018, by then I hope Blackberry Mobile can solve some of the above mentioned problems and release a killer slab phone with competitive internals (No 2016 821 chip).
    I finally got to.play with the KEYone, and I was very impressed. I'm still.on BB10 for a few more months, but the KEYone is my next phone.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    07-01-17 11:33 AM
  18. Bay 13's Avatar
    I finally got to.play with the KEYone, and I was very impressed. I'm still.on BB10 for a few more months, but the KEYone is my next phone.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Awesome! Keep us updated when you get your K1 . Hopefully you will not experience the problems that were mentioned earlier. Like I said earlier...I hope TCL hold Blackberry to the fire with timely updates as this will affect them in terms of retaining customers. I hope to stay but if problems persist I may have to move to Pixel 2
    07-01-17 11:37 AM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    They didn't miss it, they announced that it went out, but the Dtek60 didn't get it.
    They missed it for the DTEK60. The announcement was just a pre-drafted email. We'll see if the DTEK60 receives future patches. My guess is it will, but I don't know that.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    chi-town311 likes this.
    07-01-17 01:14 PM
  20. chi-town311's Avatar
    They missed it for the DTEK60. The announcement was just a pre-drafted email. We'll see if the DTEK60 receives future patches. My guess is it will, but I don't know that.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I contacted BBhelp via twitter and they are still claiming that it went live for DTEKs. These people are clueless. They are liars and they don't care about their customers. This is the point that I'm at.DTEK60 Abandoned?-capture1.pngDTEK60 Abandoned?-capture2.pngDTEK60 Abandoned?-capture3.png
    07-04-17 11:11 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    I contacted BBhelp via twitter and they are still claiming that it went live for DTEKs. These people are clueless. They are liars and they don't care about their customers. This is the point that I'm at.
    Clueless and poor at communicating, maybe. But liars? No. That requires too much effort.
    07-04-17 11:15 AM
  22. chi-town311's Avatar
    Clueless and poor at communicating, maybe. But liars? No. That requires too much effort.
    See it how you like to see it. From my point of view, the company is lying about it. Blog posts are clear. Their BBHelp is consistent in saying that they released it.

    On top of that, crackberry doesn't care to even mention the delays. They just repeat the same line from BlackBerry. Am I to believe that none of the CrackBerry staff is aware of this oversight?
    07-04-17 11:39 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    See it how you like to see it. From my point of view, the company is lying about it. Blog posts are clear. Their BBHelp is consistent in saying that they released it.

    On top of that, crackberry doesn't care to even mention the delays. They just repeat the same line from BlackBerry. Am I to believe that none of the CrackBerry staff is aware of this oversight?
    BlackBerry makes its boilerplate blog post once a month. The twitter tech probably got the same one. Meh. It is what it is.

    Without knowing much more than us, and with BlackBerry not really engaging on anything to do with the DTEKs from a communications perspective, I'm not sure what Bla1ze can really post about.

    Until missing security patches becomes the rule rather than the exception, I guess no one else is really too excited about it.

    In 2017, the Priv hasn't missed any, the DTEK50 one, and the DTEK60 now two. Hopefully we'll be all caught up in a couple of days. Prior to last month, we were 14 for 15 in 2017.
    Last edited by conite; 07-04-17 at 12:03 PM.
    07-04-17 11:49 AM
  24. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Clueless and poor at communicating, maybe. But liars? No. That requires too much effort.
    Sometimes telling the truth is what takes effort.

    Sadly, we apparently live in times where unscrupulous companies don't understand that.

    And even more disappointing... the fact that some stretch so far to excuse it.

    They are lies pure and simple... maybe unintended... but clearly lies... there is no need to debate or excuse that.
    07-04-17 11:52 AM
  25. conite's Avatar

    They are lies pure and simple... maybe unintended... but clearly lies... there is no need to debate or excuse that.
    How different each makes be feel is important to me.

    If a friend lies to my face, it is very different that if his clumsiness caused an inadvertent, unintended lie. I would be far more upset about the former, and far more forgiving about the latter.

    To each his own.
    07-04-17 11:58 AM
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