01-22-18 06:54 PM
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  1. Bay 13's Avatar
    I was using the term "legacy" to characterize discontinued products for a line of business with no future revenues projected. The products themselves, obviously, are still very much current, as both the hardware and Marshmallow OS are very much mainstream products in the prime of their usable lives.

    But I don't think that trying to blur the lines between the responsibilities of a device manufacturer/seller and a brand licensor is accurate. They really have very little to do with one another in terms of relationship to the customer. Blackberry is 100% responsible for all post-sale support for the DTEK 60, but TCL is 100% responsible for all post-sale support for the KEYone. They are truly separate, from a responsibility standpoint.
    True...I do not blame TCL. Blackberry will not support the DTEKS that were sold prior to the agreement with TCL. I believe Blackberry will be on top of support for K1 and future TCL branded Blackberry phones. TCL can not hold them to stay on top of support for DTEK devices.
    06-30-17 08:39 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Blackberry may not care but you would think TCL would...they are trying to sale phones. Blackberry disdain towards customers who purchased DTEK phones could hurt TCL in the short term. It will be hard to refer someone to TCL Blackberry branded phones in the future.
    Yes, I completely agree that TCL should care. As the licensee of BlackBerry's hardware brand, anything that genuinely affects the value of that brand will matter to TCL.
    Bay 13, giantrobo and chi-town311 like this.
    06-30-17 08:39 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    True...I do not blame TCL. Blackberry will not support the DTEKS that were sold prior to the agreement with TCL. I believe Blackberry will be on top of support for K1 and future TCL branded Blackberry phones. TCL can not hold them to stay on top of support for DTEK devices.
    They probably could put pressure on BlackBerry if they felt that the lack of support for the Priv and DTEK phones would materially affect the value of their license of the BlackBerry brand. But the complaints in these forums likely wouldn't cross that hurdle.
    06-30-17 08:43 PM
  4. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    You are right, I've been a little pissed too. But can only stay that way for a little bit and it is know ones fault on here for sure. Other than a few major excuse makers and defenders ticking me off and not getting it, all is good on here. I will continue to come back for all my ranting needs..lol....But I do think some on here know a lot more than the say, just reading between the lines.
    You're probably right about that
    06-30-17 08:45 PM
  5. Bay 13's Avatar
    They probably could put pressure on BlackBerry if they felt that the lack of support for the Priv and DTEK phones would materially affect the value of their license of the BlackBerry brand. But the complaints in these forums likely wouldn't cross that hurdle.
    I will say that TCL did a great job on the DTEK 60. My wife likes it better than her Galaxy S7. She stated the build quality and the looks are par with her S7 phone.
    06-30-17 08:46 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I bought a car for less than the PRIV retailed new and daily driven it for over a decade now to work. All you're saying is " Hey guys I make enough money that I don't give a **** if my purchases end up being abandonedware and poorly supported"

    Now I'm more fortunate than most people to have expendable income to blow, but a whole lot of people don't. To some people the 500+ they spend on their phone is quite a large amount and they want to see support for it. And when it doesn't get supported the way they want.... It's totally understandable that they are not happy, especially when every flagship released successful or failed around the same time is still getting love. its shameful that people who dumped that much money on the DTEK series are getting the shaft.
    Unfortunately, you don't get to pick how things are supported as the customer. When you buy phones direct from a company that almost went under and has no carrier support, caveat emptor. In essence, the hardware division went under. We paid less money for our devices, partly because of the damaged brand and because the company announced they were leaving hardware.

    People are now upset because they are finally confronting the fact that BlackBerry Original Hardware actually left the business. Many people on CrackBerry have been in denial on how poorly the hardware business was operating and the drain on resources for the company. Just look at the people that complain about not getting BB10 support let alone Nougat and they'll never be satisfied with security updates.

    The reality is that BlackBerry Original has supported the hardware business longer and better than many realize was possible if John Chen hadn't been hired. Reality isn't always nice or enjoyable.
    06-30-17 09:04 PM
  7. giantrobo's Avatar
    It would do some good for some actual CrackBerry people to speak publicly about this predicament we find ourselves in
    Let's be real here, this is a fansite for shilling blackberry mobile products. We're dealing with essentially pitchmen who want to sell us their sponsors products and direct us to their own storefront to buy accessories for their sponsored products every chance they get. If they do know anything it's safe to say they wouldn't release info on it. It's not a bad thing really, it just is what it is.
    HughJarsse likes this.
    06-30-17 09:08 PM
  8. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    I will say that TCL did a great job on the DTEK 60. My wife likes it better than her Galaxy S7. She stated the build quality and the looks are par with her S7 phone.
    Yes, the DTEK60 is a pretty good piece of hardware. That's part of the reason some of us are just astonished at the stupidity of abandoning it.

    Heck... it took 'em longer to get the K1 to the market after announcement than they had the DTEK60 on the market and actually for sale.

    Stupid... stupid... stupid.

    BlackBerry... stealing defeat from the jaws of victory!
    chi-town311 likes this.
    06-30-17 09:13 PM
  9. chi-town311's Avatar
    Just recognize that some of us who never made the assumptions you did about post-sale upgrades or the monthly update schedule being set in stone don't feel like BlackBerry has deceived us.

    To me, the relationship is that of a supplier whose business has declined, but who has still met my expectations on everything critical.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Assumptions? People. They said monthly updates. They posted on their blog in april and June that the update was live. They lied about it. It's not an assumption. It's deceit. It's not a huge deal. My phone still works. The lights are still on. No nuclear bombs went off today.

    But for God's sake, accept them fact that wonderful blackberry has once again treated it's customers like crap.
    HughJarsse likes this.
    06-30-17 09:17 PM
  10. chi-town311's Avatar
    You can't prove intent by actions taken months after an utterance. LOL. By definition, intent must precede the deception.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    It's still on the website. Is it not a current utterance?
    06-30-17 09:23 PM
  11. Bay 13's Avatar
    Yes, the DTEK60 is a pretty good piece of hardware. That's part of the reason some of us are just astonished at the stupidity of abandoning it.

    Heck... it took 'em longer to get the K1 to the market after announcement than they had the DTEK60 on the market and actually for sale.

    Stupid... stupid... stupid.

    BlackBerry... stealing defeat from the jaws of victory!
    Yes... I agree.
    06-30-17 09:24 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Assumptions? People. They said monthly updates. They posted on their blog in april and June that the update was live. They lied about it. It's not an assumption. It's deceit. It's not a huge deal. My phone still works. The lights are still on. No nuclear bombs went off today.

    But for God's sake, accept them fact that wonderful blackberry has once again treated it's customers like crap.
    I never think of BlackBerry as either wonderful or awful. It's just a company that has made some great products and some less than great products.

    I never have felt treated great or like crap. If the patches come late occasionally it's not a disaster, but I would expect them to continue for at least two years, and I'd prefer three, as I've said before.

    I don't care much about whether my Android runs Marshmallow or Nougat, so long as it's patched, since more than half of current Android devices still run L and K.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-30-17 09:25 PM
  13. chi-town311's Avatar
    Reading through this both sides seem to have a point.

    Some are posting that BlackBerry has fulfilled their requirements with the DTEK series and aren't obligated to do anything else at this point besides honor the warranty.

    Others are upset that a phone that was only released a few short months ago has been essentially neglected and isn't getting the updates that were promised.

    I see both sides of the argument, but I don't really know how anyone can defend BB here. If this were a year and half to two year old device then I think there would be some merit to that argument. But its only been out a few months. It was a little different with BB10 because they at least tried for a few years to get things rolling with it. Dropping support for the DTEK phones is seems a little rough on those who just purchased it, especially promising that it would get these regular monthly updates.

    Saying "You can just walk away then and not buy another BlackBerry" is true, but it doesn't lessen the sting for those that shelled out money for the phone and aren't getting the support they feel they rightfully deserve. This is exactly the place to air out your grievances. This forum isn't just a "let's all praise BB." Its here to discuss good and bad, and calling people whiners because they have an issue adds nothing to an argument except nonsensical fanboy ramblings.
    Agreed. On top of everything you said, it's worth pointing out that they have released nougat for a other device and have patched other devices with June. So they clearly know how to do it and have already completed most of the work.
    06-30-17 09:27 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's still on the website. Is it not a current utterance?
    You could file a lawsuit and find out. But, common sense tells me that they meant it when they said it, and the fact that it's still on the Web means nothing.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-30-17 09:29 PM
  15. giantrobo's Avatar
    Unfortunately, you don't get to pick how things are supported as the customer. When you buy phones direct from a company that almost went under and has no carrier support, caveat emptor. In essence, the hardware division went under. We paid less money for our devices, partly because of the damaged brand and because the company announced they were leaving hardware.

    People are now upset because they are finally confronting the fact that BlackBerry Original Hardware actually left the business. Many people on CrackBerry have been in denial on how poorly the hardware business was operating and the drain on resources for the company. Just look at the people that complain about not getting BB10 support let alone Nougat and they'll never be satisfied with security updates.

    The reality is that BlackBerry Original has supported the hardware business longer and better than many realize was possible if John Chen hadn't been hired. Reality isn't always nice or enjoyable.
    If only Blackberry had the money and manpower of the Nextbit team maybe they spend the untold amount of money to support the products they sold up until two months ago. It's absolutely pathetic. I've been a shareholder of apple for a decade and if they dropped the IPad line tomorrow and didn't provide any more software updates I would be furious. I'd sell my shares and never buy another apple product. People are not upset because blackberry left the hardware business, how stupid do you think people are here? They are upset because their 7 month old flagship is getting screwed when the company that sold it still in business. Blackberry sold the DTEK 60 for a paltry 50$ off to customers three months ago... what they didn't tout on their salespage was" We are going to barely support this device".

    All your posts might as well boil down to "I have enough money to go blow 500$ more on a flagship of questionable support and ridicule or talk down to the people who(rightfully) feel ripped off or disappointed with the support their getting" or "I'm a shareholder!!!"
    Last edited by giantrobo; 06-30-17 at 09:42 PM.
    06-30-17 09:31 PM
  16. chi-town311's Avatar
    You could file a lawsuit and find out. But, common sense tells me that they meant it when they said it, and the fact that it's still on the Web means nothing.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Not to someone who saw it for them first time. Geez. Are consumers supposed to search for a timestamp on every publicity to make sure it's still valid?
    06-30-17 09:40 PM
  17. chi-town311's Avatar
    If only Blackberry had the money and manpower of the Nextbit team maybe they spend the untold amount of money to support the products they sold up until two months ago. It's absolutely pathetic. I've been a shareholder of apple for a decade and if they dropped the IPad line tomorrow and didn't provide any more software updates I would be furious. I'd sell my shares and never buy another apple product. People are not upset because blackberry left the hardware business, how stupid do you think people are here? They are upset because their 7 month old flagship is getting screwed when the company that sold it still in business. Blackberry sold the DTEK 60 for a paltry 50$ off to customers three months ago... what they didn't tout on their salespage was" We are going to barely support this device".

    All your posts might as well boil down to "I have enough money to go blow 500$ more on a flagship of questionable support and ridicule or talk down to the people who(rightfully) feel ripped off or disappointed with the support their getting" or "I'm a shareholder!!!"
    The untold amounts of money to apply software they have already developed for their licensee to a similar phone. I mean, that would cost them billions in development costs.
    06-30-17 09:48 PM
  18. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Not to someone who saw it for them first time. Geez. Are consumers supposed to search for a timestamp on every publicity to make sure it's still valid?
    Exactly!

    The fact that BlackBerry is still advertising it this very day as if available... and as the most secure Android... is downright fraudulent...a blatant lie!
    chi-town311 and HughJarsse like this.
    06-30-17 09:54 PM
  19. donnation's Avatar
    I was using the term "legacy" to characterize discontinued products for a line of business with no future revenues projected. The products themselves, obviously, are still very much current, as both the hardware and Marshmallow OS are very much mainstream products in the prime of their usable lives.

    But I don't think that trying to blur the lines between the responsibilities of a device manufacturer/seller and a brand licensor is accurate. They really have very little to do with one another in terms of relationship to the customer. Blackberry is 100% responsible for all post-sale support for the DTEK 60, but TCL is 100% responsible for all post-sale support for the KEYone. They are truly separate, from a responsibility standpoint.
    Here's what I don't understand. BlackBerry provides the software for both of these devices. How are they responsible for one but not the other. I understand that TCL is responsible for warranty support for damage, returns, exchanges, defects, etc. But how is BlackBerry providing software for both of these devices but only responsible for one of them? They licensed their name to TCL to use on their devices. BlackBerry is still the one providing the software patches and updates. So how is the buck passed on one device but not the other? I truly don't understand this so if you do I'd really like to know.
    Uzi and kbz1960 like this.
    06-30-17 10:26 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Here's what I don't understand. BlackBerry provides the software for both of these devices. How are they responsible for one but not the other. I understand that TCL is responsible for warranty support for damage, returns, exchanges, defects, etc. But how is BlackBerry providing software for both of these devices but only responsible for one of them? They licensed their name to TCL to use on their devices. BlackBerry is still the one providing the software patches and updates. So how is the buck passed on one device but not the other? I truly don't understand this so if you do I'd really like to know.
    It's actually pretty simple. For BlackBerry Mobile/TCL phones (currently the KEYone) BlackBerry is a supplier of the software to TCL, but TCL provides the phone and the software to the customer. The customer only has a relationship with TCL, not with BlackBerry.

    It's the same as when you buy a car with components from many other companies. The auto manufacturer is the only company that the consumer has the relationship with. If there is a problem with the brake pads, the consumer doesn't go to the company that manufactured the brake pads, the consumer goes to either the manufacturer or the dealer who sold the car. The manufacturer can then go to the supplier of the brake pads for replacement or compensation.

    For previous phones, such as BBOS, BB10, the Priv and DTEK phones, BlackBerry was the manufacturer, so they were responsible for service and support. Customers who had problems with the Leap didn't have a right to deal with Foxconn, who actually manufactured the phone, because Foxconn was a supplier to Blackberry

    It doesn't matter who does the work. The only thing that matters is who has the contract with whom.

    Customer ==> Manufacturer ==> Supplier

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-30-17 11:20 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Not to someone who saw it for them first time. Geez. Are consumers supposed to search for a timestamp on every publicity to make sure it's still valid?
    BlackBerry may well be liable for delivering patches regularly for their Android phones, but a missed deadline because the work is unpredictable is not the same as a deception. If they stop patching altogether, that's a different issue.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-30-17 11:30 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    For the ump-teenth time now... it's NOT about Nougat.

    It's the lies... misinformation... and apparent abandonment of those who purchased a device only a few months ago.

    Lies about June security patch.
    Lies about still supposedly being for sale... when it isn't.
    Lies about being the most secure Android.

    And we can't even get a whiff of anyone even admitting that it just might be an issue. Those who are miffed are just mocked and ridiculed... without facts about agreements that no one has even seen.
    But these are all minutiae. Just marketing fluff and missed deadlines.

    There is no Star Chamber at BlackBerry trying to figure out ways to mess with you. Life happens, and not everything works according to plan.

    I guarantee that security patches will continue, and that there is no master plan to deceive you. The marketing arm is just not in sync with the engineering arm - not uncommon for big companies.

    June was most likely missed because everyone was focused on the May release of the KEYᵒⁿᵉ. It's most likely as simple as that.
    06-30-17 11:45 PM
  23. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    The marketing arm is just not in sync with the engineering arm - not uncommon for big companies.
    Not correct... not at well run companies with competent management.

    It is NOT acceptable... and it is astonishing that smart folks are so willing to make excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse for it.
    xandros9 likes this.
    07-01-17 12:46 AM
  24. xandros9's Avatar
    Not correct... not at well run companies with competent management.

    It is NOT acceptable... and it is astonishing that smart folks are so willing to make excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse for it.
    This was a post about the continued misdirection of contractual obligations, who's responsible, the problem is in the user's expectations, etc but I have decided to dial it back from its original form.

    Either way, there's no lack of smoke, but whether that means a big fire remains to be seen.
    07-01-17 01:09 AM
  25. dlmsd's Avatar
    This was a post about the continued misdirection of contractual obligations, who's responsible, the problem is in the user's expectations, etc but I have decided to dial it back from its original form.

    Either way, there's no lack of smoke, but whether that means a big fire remains to be seen.
    Wow!
    07-01-17 02:15 AM
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