01-22-18 06:54 PM
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  1. Bay 13's Avatar
    I have two Alcatel devices, the Ideal and the Allura. Nothing great when compared to my DTEK50/60 phones. I agree that I'd like Nougat, but I'll buy whatever BBMo is selling over the other Android OEMs. Why punish myself over something like Nougat update? If Nougat is that important to me, I'll just buy a KEYone or new slab from BBMo coming soon...

    They're just phones and we're not talking big money here..... I mean I bought my son an IPhone 7 as biannual gift, ugh!!!!!! He passes the old phones down to his sisters..... I guess from that perspective, it's not too bad...still we're not talking car/truck money.

    Life is too short to be upset over a phone.
    True it is just a phone. Your children will have the Iphones for along time with updates. I believe the IPhone 5S will receive IOS11 update this fall. If Android O releases in Sept 2017...The Dtek 60 will be two OS updates behind and the hardware will still be less than a year old. Wow.
    06-29-17 08:37 AM
  2. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    There was a technical issue surrounding the April patch, which also affected the Priv - I suspect involving a particular Qualcomm driver. By early May it was resolved and both phones caught up with the May patch. I don't treat this as an ethical issue.

    As for the June patch, I don't have enough information yet.
    You have enough information about the June patch to, without question, that BlackBerry is lying about it... yet you can't bring yourself to admit that's an ethical problem.

    That's where our motives diverge...
    xandros9 and chi-town311 like this.
    06-29-17 08:46 AM
  3. Willieray3's Avatar
    That is the risk you take with a Blackberry branded phone. If sales are not good...it seems support or a successor phone will not happen . No Passport 2 , Z30 or Z50, No Priv 2...
    The risk is simply to high for me, another $500 bucks down the drain.

    The Z30 was a beast of a phone I still have it and play with it time from time.
    06-29-17 08:50 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    You have enough information about the June patch to, without question, that BlackBerry is lying about it... yet you can't bring yourself to admit that's an ethical problem.

    That's where our motives diverge...
    I see it as a marketing bot that presses the button on the monthly boilerplate press release the moment it receives the BlackBerry security bulletin.

    I do wish they followed that up with at least a tweet with regards to the delay. That's a communications problem.
    06-29-17 08:53 AM
  5. Bay 13's Avatar
    The risk is simply to high for me, another $500 bucks down the drain.

    The Z30 was a beast of a phone I still have it and play with it time from time.
    Yes...loved my Z30. I gave it to my mother-inlaw. I agree...if you spend $500.00 plus you want to be current with the other phones on the market. The 60 should have launched with N in my opinion. I have a Priv and 60. I will hold on to my 60 until early next year. I want to get a year use out of it. It runs smooth and I hope BB continue with security updates . This will give me time to assess BBmo/TCL to see how they support the K1 before I buy another phone.
    06-29-17 09:00 AM
  6. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    I see it as a marketing bot that presses the button on the monthly boilerplate press release the moment it receives the BlackBerry security bulletin.

    I do wish they followed that up with at least a tweet with regards to the delay. That's a communications problem.
    Dude... that's what we mean by "blinders" !

    It's a lie... nothing short of a lie. And CB's refusal to call them out on it? In the past they would have... now they're shills.

    Admit that and your credibility would surely pop.
    06-29-17 09:05 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Dude... that's what we mean by "blinders" !

    It's a lie... nothing short of a lie. And CB's refusal to call them out on it? In the past they would have... now they're shills.

    Admit that and your credibility would surely pop.
    I never attribute to deceit what could be easily explained by even a small level of incompetence.

    Your explanation requires too much thought, and give them too much credit.
    06-29-17 09:09 AM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Dude... that's what we mean by "blinders" !

    It's a lie... nothing short of a lie. And CB's refusal to call them out on it? In the past they would have... now they're shills.

    Admit that and your credibility would surely pop.
    Conite's credibility is about as high as anyone in these forums. The fact that he doesn't waste our time with emotional outbursts and broad condemnations like some posters feel the need to is no reason to question his integrity.

    It's become fashionable around here to label people who take an objective and dispassionate view of Blackberry's mobile phone business as "apologists" or "shills." Those are personal attacks that have no place on these forums. They only result in closed threads.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    06-29-17 09:14 AM
  9. cgk's Avatar

    The problem I see if I buy the K1 and 6 months down the road tcl decides the sales are not enough to warrant continuing the relationship and decide to drop support for it, such as BlackBerry did with the Dtek series. What then?
    If you want to maximise your chances of support - you only have two choices - pixel or iphone. Everything else is simply a gamble.
    kbz1960 and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    06-29-17 09:22 AM
  10. rcab's Avatar
    I own stock and if it ever gets back to break even point and we still lack communication from BlackBerry Ltd, I will sell. I have experienced the Playbook right through the Priv and Dteks and I won't be giving any further money to them. I was a fool to believe Chen was going to bring the company back to where money could be made on the stock. as a stockholder I believe that the company owes some responsibility to the Dtek 60 owners . The discussion is what is included in that responsibility. Since the phone is still under warranty I feel that nougat should be released as part of providing the most secure software. Conite seems to feel providing security patches every other month satisfies that responsibility.
    06-29-17 09:24 AM
  11. Bertie Bear's Avatar
    As far as I can see, there is nothing on the UK Blackberry.com website that indicates they are "out of the hardware business". Quite the opposite in fact.
    Under the Smartphones section, both Dteks, Priv, Passport, Classic & Leap all have a 'Buy Now' button which takes you to 3rd party retailers, including Amazon and Carphone Warehouse.
    The blurb on the BB website for the Dteks boasts: "Updating the security of your device, long after you purchase it".
    So, if I click on 'Buy Now' today & purchase a Dtek from say Amazon, I would expect security to be updated for "long after" I have purchased it.
    If this is not the case & support will end soon, I would be entitled to be peeved.
    Is there any suggestion from anyone of any authority that the monthly security updates will end anytime soon?
    06-29-17 09:38 AM
  12. goku_vegeta's Avatar
    as long as the Dtek series and PRIV are receiving security updates you can't say they are abandoned. Remember BlackBerry always required a new phone to upgrade the os OS 5 phones didn't get OS 6; OS 6 phones didn't get OS 7. All of those phones still received updates but they did not get the next major release. This maybe a return of that strategy from BlackBerry. I don't like it. I will be sticking with Nexus and Pixels for the future
    Curve 9300
    Bold 9700
    Bold 9650
    Pearl 9100/9105

    These devices all launched with BlackBerry OS 5.0 and were upgraded to BlackBerry 6.

    Plus there were devices that launched on BlackBerry OS 4.6 which were upgraded to 4.7 etc
    06-29-17 09:42 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I own stock and if it ever gets back to break even point and we still lack communication from BlackBerry Ltd, I will sell. I have experienced the Playbook right through the Priv and Dteks and I won't be giving any further money to them. I was a fool to believe Chen was going to bring the company back to where money could be made on the stock. as a stockholder I believe that the company owes some responsibility to the Dtek 60 owners . The discussion is what is included in that responsibility. Since the phone is still under warranty I feel that nougat should be released as part of providing the most secure software. Conite seems to feel providing security patches every other month satisfies that responsibility.
    The PlayBook was a huge disappointment, for BlackBerry and its users, as was BB10 and Blackberry's too late transition to Android. These were failures in the marketplace, and such failures result in missed expectations for everyone. Shareholders, employees, suppliers and customers all paid the price.

    Twelve years ago I was once asked to hire 70+ mid-career employees in less than three months for an important initiative. I worked 60-80 hour weeks for two years to recruit, hire, train, and supervise that team, and we surpassed all of our business goals by 50-100%. Two years later, I was told to fire half of that team because the business was suffering in other areas and needed to reduce headcount. My employees and our customers were devastated, and I was furious and felt betrayed.

    But no one had ever lied to me or done anything unethical. What I find pointless, frustrating and completely unnecessary on these forums are the posters with no information except a customers' perspective who accuse individuals of unethical behavior.

    In life and in business, bad results do not require bad behavior, and good results do not require good behavior.

    BlackBerry had terrible results in its hardware business, and we all were disappointed. Why create this or that bogeyman to explain it?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    06-29-17 09:44 AM
  14. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    The PlayBook was a huge disappointment, for BlackBerry and its users, as was BB10 and Blackberry's too late transition to Android. These were failures in the marketplace, and such failures result in missed expectations for everyone. Shareholders, employees, suppliers and customers all paid the price.

    Twelve years ago I was once asked to hire 70+ mid-career employees in less than three months for an important initiative. I worked 60-80 hour weeks for two years to recruit, hire, train, and supervise that team, and we surpassed all of our business goals by 50-100%. Two years later, I was told to fire half of that team because the business was suffering in other areas and needed to reduce headcount. My employees and our customers were devastated, and I was furious and felt betrayed.

    But no one had ever lied to me or done anything unethical.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Amazing how such a story can be told followed by an opinion that such company had "... done nothing unethical".

    Speaks volumes about morals of the day... and therein lies the problem... people willing to gloss over clearly unethical behavior.
    06-29-17 10:01 AM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Amazing how such a story can be told followed by an opinion that such company had "... done nothing unethical".

    Speaks volumes about morals of the day... and therein lies the problem... people willing to gloss over clearly unethical behavior.
    How is business survival unethical? When I hire somebody, there is no promise of lifetime unemployment. If business declines for whatever reason, some people will have to find new jobs. I can't lose the business. I have to save the company and whatever jobs I can.
    06-29-17 10:07 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Amazing how such a story can be told followed by an opinion that such company had "... done nothing unethical".

    Speaks volumes about morals of the day... and therein lies the problem... people willing to gloss over clearly unethical behavior.
    What do you consider unethical? It's not unethical for an employer to reduce its workforce. The company in question paid severance and unemployment benefits, and paid for placement services for the laid off employees, all of whom found jobs before the benefits expired. I know that because I stayed in touch and wrote all the recommendations.

    The fact that you think that something painful and difficult must be caused by unethical behavior kind of proves my point.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    06-29-17 10:12 AM
  17. dlmsd's Avatar
    Look, we'd all like to have Nougat. We are just discussing whether BlackBerry is obligated to provide it.

    Legally, they are not of course.

    Ethically, there is no objective resolution.

    I would say decide with your wallet, but BlackBerry isn't selling anything anymore, so that's hard to do.
    Agree totally, But...

    "BlackBerry isn't selling anything anymore, so that's hard to do."

    Isn't 100% true right? They sell their name ie: license, software, reputation, and that nice logo on the back of the TCL made phones right? Seems like they might have some form of substantial loss if people decided with their wallet.
    anon(10123624) likes this.
    06-29-17 10:26 AM
  18. rcab's Avatar
    The PlayBook was a huge disappointment, for BlackBerry and its users, as was BB10 and Blackberry's too late transition to Android. These were failures in the marketplace, and such failures result in missed expectations for everyone. Shareholders, employees, suppliers and customers all paid the price.

    Twelve years ago I was once asked to hire 70+ mid-career employees in less than three months for an important initiative. I worked 60-80 hour weeks for two years to recruit, hire, train, and supervise that team, and we surpassed all of our business goals by 50-100%. Two years later, I was told to fire half of that team because the business was suffering in other areas and needed to reduce headcount. My employees and our customers were devastated, and I was furious and felt betrayed.

    But no one had ever lied to me or done anything unethical. What I find pointless, frustrating and completely unnecessary on these forums are the posters with no information except a customers' perspective who accuse individuals of unethical behavior.

    In life and in business, bad results do not require bad behavior, and good results do not require good behavior.

    BlackBerry had terrible results in its hardware business, and we all were disappointed. Why create this or that bogeyman to explain it?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Earlier someone posted view of being a stockholder. I was posting my view. I stated nothing about unethical behavior. Except for Conite who seems to have some inside information , I think all of us are just giving our opinions or thoughts.
    06-29-17 10:27 AM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Agree totally, But...

    "BlackBerry isn't selling anything anymore, so that's hard to do."

    Isn't 100% true right? They sell their name ie: license, software, reputation, and that nice logo on the back of the TCL made phones right? Seems like they might have some form of substantial loss if people decided with their wallet.
    You can take that stand, of course. That's entirely legitimate.

    For me, I'm not willing to forgo buying the KEYᵒⁿᵉ from TCL because of the $10 or $20 that might flow to BlackBerry. It's an awesome device, and I won't be a martyr.
    06-29-17 10:30 AM
  20. dlmsd's Avatar
    I see. I own stock and don't care as long as my stock keeps going better. And I don't own stock and want my damn updates.

    About right?
    No, not at all. Most buy stocks to perform more than 6-12 months. I own 1838 shares of Amz, and I don't want them to stop selling a product that doesn't sell. Not sure what your getting at. The BlackBerry stock looks good now because of their settlement, might want to dump while it's up over last yr.
    06-29-17 10:43 AM
  21. chi-town311's Avatar
    I see it as a marketing bot that presses the button on the monthly boilerplate press release the moment it receives the BlackBerry security bulletin.

    I do wish they followed that up with at least a tweet with regards to the delay. That's a communications problem.

    I think you need to start viewing BlackBerry as a multinational corporation with a market cap of over $5B. Maybe hold them to a little higher standard. They are capable of a lot better than this.
    xandros9 likes this.
    06-29-17 10:46 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You can take that stand, of course. That's entirely legitimate.

    For me, I'm not willing to forgo buying the KEYᵒⁿᵉ from TCL because of the $10 or $20 that might flow to BlackBerry. It's an awesome device, and I won't be a martyr.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head, and this is why we see so much passion on these forums.

    Despite the disappointments, BlackBerry has consistently had a unique vision for mobile devices that some of us find superior to that of larger, more successful consumer electronics firms.

    If the devices weren't so good, we wouldn't waste our time and energy!


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-29-17 10:48 AM
  23. Willieray3's Avatar
    If you want to maximise your chances of support - you only have two choices - pixel or iphone. Everything else is simply a gamble.
    Simply not true, Samsung and Motorola provide better support than BlackBerry has on Android
    06-29-17 10:51 AM
  24. Bertie Bear's Avatar

    "BlackBerry isn't selling anything anymore."

    .
    They should remove the 'Buy Now' button from their website then.
    I know it doesn't take you to Shop BlackBerry any more, but it hardly suggests they have withdrawn from the hardware business. It implies these are all current phones (and that includes the Passport, Classic and Leap).
    Can't see the use of past tense anywhere.
    chi-town311 likes this.
    06-29-17 10:51 AM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think you need to start viewing BlackBerry as a multinational corporation with a market cap of over $5B. Maybe hold them to a little higher standard. They are capable of a lot better than this.
    Not in the consumer space they're not. Their greatest successes were in their partnerships with enterprise IT departments and mobile carriers. They've NEVER been oriented towards consumers. That's why they were wiped out by BYOD.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-29-17 10:51 AM
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