[ray689]

But they have managed to dump device design, manufacture, marketing, distribution, and support - and all the infrastructure and physical plant that goes along with it.

All these other things mean nothing to the consumer buying a device with their name on it. They are still responsible and held accountable for the one aspect that they themselves said is the most important and truly make the smartphone and that is the software. So yes they can't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over as the person you responded to said.

[ray689]

Absolutely. I assume they would be bound for a year or two per device.

Maybe sure. Or maybe it's a 5 year agreement that TCL has the right to exit if they choose. Nobody knows. Still doesn't absolve them of a very important role in the device with their brand on it. So this whole "well good thing BlackBerry is out of hardware" argument is pointless and irrelevant.

[conite]

Maybe sure. Or maybe it's a 5 year agreement that TCL has the right to exit if they choose. Nobody knows. Still doesn't absolve them of a very important role in the device with their brand on it. So this whole "well good thing BlackBerry is out of hardware" argument is pointless and irrelevant.

Is Microsoft in the laptop business? No. They are in the software business.

[ray689]

Is Microsoft in the laptop business? No. They are in the software business.

Yes they are in the software business. Can you buy a Microsoft laptop and only a Microsoft laptop? NO you cannot. Absolutely irrelevant comparison. So till the day BlackBerry android is simply in a bunch of random branded devices as opposed to only BlackBerry branded devices, no consumer will ever make that comparison in their minds.

[conite]

Yes they are in the software business. Can you buy a Microsoft laptop and only a Microsoft laptop? NO you cannot. Absolutely irrelevant comparison. So till the day BlackBerry android is simply in a bunch of random branded devices as opposed to only BlackBerry branded devices, no consumer will ever make that comparison in their minds.

Well I just don't agree that, because BlackBerry gets a few extra bucks for letting other companies (3 at present) to use its name, it makes BlackBerry a device company.

BlackBerry would not agree either.

[ray689]

Well I just don't agree that, because BlackBerry gets a few extra bucks for letting other companies (3 at present) to use its name, it makes BlackBerry a device company.

BlackBerry would not agree either.

When did I say it makes them a device company? I said they have a huge part of it still because of the software (which they claim is actually more important then the hardware) and it's their own branded devices. So from a consumer perspective it's a BlackBerry device. You are the one who basically made the argument that nothing really matters because they are out of hardware.

[conite]

When did I say it makes them a device company? I said they have a huge part of it still because of the software (which they claim is actually more important then the hardware) and it's their own branded devices. So from a consumer perspective it's a BlackBerry device. You are the one who basically made the argument that nothing really matters because they are out of hardware.

But all they do with respect to BlackBerry Android now is have a team in a tower somewhere committing various monthly builds to a server.

How does this align with all of the so-called repeated mistakes of the past?

[ray689]

But all they do with respect to BlackBerry Android now is have a team in a tower somewhere committing various monthly builds to a server.

How does this align with all of the so-called repeated mistakes of the past?

Yes because their software promises have been impeccable in the past. The reality is, software was usually the gripe of most people. The hardware was rarely an issue.

[conite]

Yes because their software promises have been impeccable in the past.

I think they have a rather outstanding record with Android, no?

Very unlike the intentionally-starved BB10 squad.

[ray689]

I think they have a rather outstanding record with Android, no?

Very unlike the intentionally-starved BB10 squad.

Android yes I agree. I'm assuming the mistakes of the past being referred to weren't about Android.

[BigBadWulf]

All these other things mean nothing to the consumer buying a device with their name on it.

The majority of consumers have assumed BlackBerry is dead for years. If they happen to buy a KEYᵒⁿᵉ, they would most likely be shocked to learn there was a DTEK50DTEK50/60, Priv, and probably any BB10 for that matter.

[ray689]

The majority of consumers have assumed BlackBerry is dead for years. If they happen to buy a KEYᵒⁿᵉ, they would most likely be shocked to learn there was a DTEK50DTEK50/60, Priv, and probably any BB10 for that matter.

I agree. Still doesn't change my point.

[BigBadWulf]

The hardware was rarely an issue.

Huh?

I agree. Still doesn't change my point.

I happen to agree with many of your points. You've both had an entertaining back and forth.

[ray689]

Huh?



I happen to agree with many of your points. You've both had an entertaining back and forth.

Okay maybe rarely was a poor choice of words but for the most part hardware from the bold line, to Z30 to Passport has never been a point of complaint for people.

[BigBadWulf]

Okay maybe rarely was a poor choice of words but for the most part hardware from the bold line, to Z30 to Passport has never been a point of complaint for people.

Bold - fixed focus camera
Z10 - average performance at launch due to delays
Passport - bendgate


Z30 I'll give you, though the camera wasn't upgraded from the Z10, and a point of contention for many. Overall, not considered enough of a hardware upgrade to bother buying, for a lot of people.

[ray689]

Bold - fixed focus camera
Z10 - average performance at launch due to delays
Passport - bendgate

You can pick out issues with any device from any manufacturer. Build quality for the most part has not been a complaint. As for bend gate, I think you have it confused with the iPhone. Screen lift gate then maybe . I still say the devices I mentioned were great build quality.

[BigBadWulf]

You can pick out issues with any device from any manufacturer. Build quality for the most part has not been a complaint. As for bend gate, I think you have it confused with the iPhone. Screen lift gate then maybe . I still say the devices I mentioned were great build quality.

They were all major build complaints, so true, not really build quality. Nothing like the double typing issues of many models, but still production decisions (minus the Passport that was build quality), that detracted from what otherwise would have been outstanding phones.

Article on the Passport "Bendgate" - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

[crackberry_geek]

Is Microsoft in the laptop business? No. They are in the software business.

Huh?

MS is quite successfully in the laptop biz... after learning NOT to make the same mistakes over and over and over and over again.

[crackberry_geek]

Bold - fixed focus camera
Z10 - average performance at launch due to delays
Passport - bendgate


Z30 I'll give you, though the camera wasn't upgraded from the Z10, and a point of contention for many. Overall, not considered enough of a hardware upgrade to bother buying, for a lot of people.

And Z30 is where johnny took over... and could have made such a difference.

Instead he chose to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

[BigBadWulf]

could have made such a difference.

Has made

Instead he chose to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

If they were marching towards victory, you are one of the few who believe it. Have any proof?

[thurask]

Instead he chose to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

Are you Thorsten Heins?

[crackberry_geek]

Has made



If they were marching towards victory, you are one of the few who believe it. Have any proof?

Absolutely... they had one of the best slabs of that day (Z30)... one of the most unique form factors ever (Passport)... and a FINALLY curerated , stable and best in market OS.

Yet because it was a biz johnny simply did NOT want to be in... and in support of Prem's ego driven wish as a wannabe Warren Buffet... they chose willfully not to tell anyone about the above... let it die in obscurity...and instead turn Prem's fortunes into a hedge fund.

It's not brilliant in the slightest. With pockets full of cash and egos... hedge funds abound... nothing brilliant about it.

[conite]

Absolutely... they had one of the best slabs of that day (Z30)... one of the most unique form factors ever (Passport)... and a FINALLY curerated , stable and best in market OS.

Except everyone was long gone by then, and developers had already decided not to champion an unnecessary third ecosystem.

The situation as you describe would had to have existed in 2009/10 to have had even the smallest chance of success.

[BigBadWulf]

And now that that has been cleared up, back on the topic of DTEK50 and Android...

[Chuck Finley69]

Absolutely... they had one of the best slabs of that day (Z30)... one of the most unique form factors ever (Passport)... and a FINALLY curerated , stable and best in market OS.

Yet because it was a biz johnny simply did NOT want to be in... and in support of Prem's ego driven wish as a wannabe Warren Buffet... they chose willfully not to tell anyone about the above... let it die in obscurity...and instead turn Prem's fortunes into a hedge fund.

It's not brilliant in the slightest. With pockets full of cash and egos... hedge funds abound... nothing brilliant about it.

Steve Jobs could not have saved BB10 in 2011 let alone 2013. The only difference is that Steve Jobs would have killed BB10 and moved to Android sooner.

To average consumers such as myself, BB10 was nothing but a related cousin to Android since all the apps were Android related ports for the most part.