[slagman5]

Sorry, I don't see Tesla that way. Musk is using a whole lot of taxpayer money to develop electric cars and prop up his company. I would have had much more respect for him if he had a great product, and funded it and Tesla with private money. I am not convinced electric cars are a sure thing, particularly any self-driving ones.

Posted via CB10 | SQC100-4 Classic in Cobalt Blue

Electric cars are not a sure thing. It takes way too long to charge them, it makes road trips impossible with electric cars unless you swap out battery packs at every charge station... And then there's the issue of waste, and the amount of environmental damage caused by the mining of lithium. Makes the point of owning electric cars almost moot...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[app_Developer]

Sorry, I don't see Tesla that way. Musk is using a whole lot of taxpayer money to develop electric cars and prop up his company. I would have had much more respect for him if he had a great product, and funded it and Tesla with private money. I am not convinced electric cars are a sure thing, particularly any self-driving ones.

Does any of that change or refute the point that chicken and egg problems exist in many industries?

[TgeekB]

You realize that BB was never actually "on top" right? Back when BB was "#1" they were the best selling brand FOR SMARTPHONES. I highlight that because at that time smartphones were not the top selling type of phones. The majority of phones being sold were still dumbphones. So in fact, even when BB was so-called "on top" there really was still a ton of options in the market for phones. You had the regular candybar dumbphones, you had flip phones, you had the BB smartphones, you had the texting phones, you had landscape sliders, portrait sliders, the list goes on. It's nothing like it is now...

And there has been a FEW innovations in the last 5 years, nothing like the rate technology is supposed to move. Slapping old existing things onto phones is not innovation, especially things that are not useful for mobile communications. What exactly are these innovations? A curved screen that serves no real purpose or benefit? Fingerprint scanners that have been on laptops for over a decade? A heartrate sensor which has existed for many decades but nobody needed it on phones and still don't need it on phones? The only useful innovation so far (but still not new) is wireless charging, which my electric toothbrush has had for many years, but still at least something that actually makes sense for phones but still nothing revolutionary that pushes the industry forward. Just look at the phones side-by-side generation to generation. Glass slabs that get bigger with every bigger number. More storage, faster cpu, what innovations have there been? Just look back more than 5 years ago and look at how many game-changing innovations happen during every 5 year period before then. Then tell me innovation is moving forward today... The market is getting stagnant and it's because the leaders are comfortable and have no reason to spend money on r&d.

BB did the same and paid the price for it, but I don't think the same would happen with the big two now. When BB did that, people still bought phones based on features of the phones themselves. Now people buy phones based on apps, so no matter how many "nifty" features BB tries to put into their phones, unless it has the "must-have" apps of that year, nobody will buy them. Same goes for any other company who tries to get into the market. I would make the same argument for Windows Phone, but I can't bring myself to do it because I honestly disliked Windows Phone when I tried it. Had one and got rid of it. But that was before this latest version, so who knows if it got better. But who cares, it doesn't have some of the "must-have" apps either so...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Yes, Blackberry was the king of smartphones and Nokia the king of dumb phones. Both now irrelevant.

Your comments, or perceptions, are based on what you feel innovations should or shouldn't be. That does not mean technology is not moving forward in other directions. Screen technology has advanced greatly in the last 5 years. I'm speaking both of resolution and the ability to input data. Look at the Note series. Also, camera technology has greatly improved making it unnecessary for most people to have to carry a separate device. Wireless charging, which you brought up, is another. Technology does not advance in a smooth curve, it takes something big to drive the next session. Apps are it now, something new will come along.

I also find it interesting that people bring up this argument but then stick to a PKB phone from 5 years ago. What do people really want?

[blackmass]

Am just hoping that going into android will be the end for BB10 device,because there will be no more update for them.....

C'mon man !! Y r u hoping it 2 end!!! Wot for? I hav never had a bb phone, but still I want bb10 to survive. I am not a big fan of iPhone but i dont "hope" apple to stop production. The more the number of options in the market the better it is for us the consumer.
U dont like bb, its fine, there r so many other products 2 choose from. But dont hope for it 2 finish. Please.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Troy Tiscareno]

The more the number of options in the market the better it is for us the consumer.

That's not always the case. In fact, when a product requires a ton of infrastructure, and its competitors require tons of non-compatible infrastructure, then it can be better - even for consumers - if there are only a few options, because if there are too many, the costs of supporting their various infrastructures both increases costs for everyone and reduces the breadth and depth of the infrastructure that any of the competitors have. This is why the free market brings itself into equilibrium - even at the expense of the weaker competitors.

But I have a feeling that you don't care as much about a larger number of choices as you do about YOUR choice being among the winners or not. Few here were complaining about BB's domination and demanded more competition back when they owned most of the smartphone market - they only complain today because BB lost.

[blackmass]

That's not always the case. In fact, when a product requires a ton of infrastructure, and its competitors require tons of non-compatible infrastructure, then it can be better - even for consumers - if there are only a few options, because if there are too many, the costs of supporting their various infrastructures both increases costs for everyone and reduces the breadth and depth of the infrastructure that any of the competitors have. This is why the free market brings itself into equilibrium - even at the expense of the weaker competitors.

But I have a feeling that you don't care as much about a larger number of choices as you do about YOUR choice being among the winners or not. Few here were complaining about BB's domination and demanded more competition back when they owned most of the smartphone market - they only complain today because BB lost.

I agree with the first part of ur statement. The free market will try 2 bring itself into a balance even by acquiring smaller players. And unless a small player has something dramatically new / different 2 offer, along with a strong financial backing, it wud b absorbed by a larger market player. A certain number of players wud always optimise the product quality & pricing. I was trying 2 explain the OP in simple terms, without getting into market economics.
Now about the second part - although i understand that it is quite difficult 2 achieve, i desire a level playing field in the market. In the old days there were basically 2 players in the phone market, the situation is more or less same now, again with 2 major players. This is what i am not comfortable with. Even in the old days i was not comfortable with nokia dominating in India, just like bb did in US. And today so is the case with Android.
But then again i hav to accept it as u rightly said about the equilibrium.
On a personal level, i hav a soft area for bb coz i always wanted 2 own 1, i kind of feel 'sad' to see it overthrown.
This cud b more emotional than logical.
And definitely i'll buy the mercury in 2017.
And i'll also buy a sfos phone for sure.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[app_Developer]

Now about the second part - although i understand that it is quite difficult 2 achieve, i desire a level playing field in the market. In the old days there were basically 2 players in the phone market, the situation is more or less same now, again with 2 major players. This is what i am not comfortable with. Even in the old days i was not comfortable with nokia dominating in India, just like bb did in US. And today so is the case with Android.
But then again i hav to accept it as u rightly said about the equilibrium.

I don't know why you would be uncomfortable. Apple and Google made things which customers prefer, and the giants Nokia and BB collapsed quickly. So clearly in this case the market works. If someone comes up with something which people really prefer over iOS and Android, and if it offers something dramatically new to partners and developers, then it can succeed.

[blackmass]

I don't know why you would be uncomfortable. Apple and Google made things which customers prefer, and the giants Nokia and BB collapsed quickly. So clearly in this case the market works. If someone comes up with something which people really prefer over iOS and Android, and if it offers something dramatically new to partners and developers, then it can succeed.

There r times when the most popular product may not b the best product.
Nokia's n9, n900 were great phones but were killed to make way for Windows, which ultimately did not happen, and ms had to resell nokia.
Apple, no doubt made a great product, which actually bb shud hav made given their market position at that time.
Google started with the open source project, and packaged it with proprietary play store / apps, effectively cutting the end user of being exposed 2 other apps.
Even though users can install other apps on an Android, most do nit even know that an alternative exists.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/tech...awsuit-europe/

This loss of the consumers makes me uncomfortable.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[TgeekB]

I don't know why you would be uncomfortable. Apple and Google made things which customers prefer, and the giants Nokia and BB collapsed quickly. So clearly in this case the market works. If someone comes up with something which people really prefer over iOS and Android, and if it offers something dramatically new to partners and developers, then it can succeed.

Exactly.

[slagman5]

Yes, Blackberry was the king of smartphones and Nokia the king of dumb phones. Both now irrelevant.

Your comments, or perceptions, are based on what you feel innovations should or shouldn't be. That does not mean technology is not moving forward in other directions. Screen technology has advanced greatly in the last 5 years. I'm speaking both of resolution and the ability to input data. Look at the Note series. Also, camera technology has greatly improved making it unnecessary for most people to have to carry a separate device. Wireless charging, which you brought up, is another. Technology does not advance in a smooth curve, it takes something big to drive the next session. Apps are it now, something new will come along.

I also find it interesting that people bring up this argument but then stick to a PKB phone from 5 years ago. What do people really want?

Screens and camera tech advanced independently of mobile phones. That's because there's still pretty healthy competition in the television and camera market... Same thing can be said about CPU and GPU technology. All of those things would have advanced exactly the same even if smartphones didn't exist...

And what does a pkb have to do with anything? I want technology to advance but I'm not one of those dummies that think newer has to be better. There are many advancements that are actually not an improvement. Am I saying they shouldn't happen? Of course not, companies need to take risks to make new things. I've tried the only other option, all-touch (use one on a daily basis actually) and there are just too many advantages to a pkb beyond typing to make me want to use an all-touch for every day.

Look at Ford, they tried to do an all-touch control system for their cars entertainment and climate control systems. But then they got feedback from users that said while touchscreen controls work ok for most entertainment things, it's too much of a hassle to have to wait for the system to boot to change the A/C or to have to look at the screen while driving to make those changes, so Ford went back to knobs and physical buttons for their climate controls. The "newer has to be better" crowd would say that is going backwards. But we know better right?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

That's not always the case. In fact, when a product requires a ton of infrastructure, and its competitors require tons of non-compatible infrastructure, then it can be better - even for consumers - if there are only a few options, because if there are too many, the costs of supporting their various infrastructures both increases costs for everyone and reduces the breadth and depth of the infrastructure that any of the competitors have. This is why the free market brings itself into equilibrium - even at the expense of the weaker competitors.

But I have a feeling that you don't care as much about a larger number of choices as you do about YOUR choice being among the winners or not. Few here were complaining about BB's domination and demanded more competition back when they owned most of the smartphone market - they only complain today because BB lost.

What infrastructure are you talking about? How are Android users paying for BB's existence?? BB phones use all of the same networks and same mobile technologies as everyone else... Well, BB10 phones anyway, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

I don't know why you would be uncomfortable. Apple and Google made things which customers prefer, and the giants Nokia and BB collapsed quickly. So clearly in this case the market works. If someone comes up with something which people really prefer over iOS and Android, and if it offers something dramatically new to partners and developers, then it can succeed.

Not saying they made up the majority, but there's no way I happen to know the only people who felt this way, but I spoke to quite a few people back when they were thinking about buying a new phone that told me specifically that they don't care about the social media apps and they prefer a physical keyboard only to buy an all-touch just because they were told those were the popular phones to buy. Yes, just so they could "fit in." I don't really see this is something people "prefer." A few of them STILL complain about typing woes with their all-touch, but would not switch for the same reason why they bought an Android or iPhone in the first place. It's become a thing where people are encouraged to ridicule others for having phones other than Samsung or iPhones. I don't only experience it as a BB user but I see people doing it to WP users and even other Android users if they have other brand phones. While I couldn't care less about it, a lot of people really want to fit in and I've seen some formerly die-hard WP lovers switch to a Samsung just to avoid the ridicule. Again, I don't see that counting as buying what they prefer. I don't know what is the source of this and am not saying the companies have some conspiracy to make people do this, my main gripe with all of my comments have been how consumers have reacted to these changes. Ridicule included. Companies will always do what is best for their bottom-line, that's the whole point of running a business afterall. I simply don't get how some consumers seem happy to see competitors fall as if it benefits them somehow...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[tmoore3496]

It slides out from either the left or right of the screen (selectable), and at any elevation (selectable).

It is very similar to peek on BB10. It's actually better considering you can see not only the HUB, but other things simply by sliding your thumb up and down.

Thanks for tip about sliding thumb up and down, awesome!

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Troy Tiscareno]

What infrastructure are you talking about? How are Android users paying for BB's existence?? BB phones use all of the same networks and same mobile technologies as everyone else... Well, BB10 phones anyway, lol.

In this case, I'm talking about the infrastructure of apps, services, and developer tools & APIs. Since each platform wanted unique (native) apps, services, and developer tools, that's a whole lot of duplicate infrastructure and a whole lot of work for developers - who prefer to only support 2, or maybe 3 platforms, because duplicating all of their work 4, 5, or 6 times for dramatically fewer users just doesn't make sense.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I spoke to quite a few people back when they were thinking about buying a new phone that told me specifically that they don't care about the social media apps and they prefer a physical keyboard only to buy an all-touch just because they were told those were the popular phones to buy. Yes, just so they could "fit in."

Did these people TELL YOU that they bought those phones to "fit in"? Because it seems to me that you are jumping to that conclusion. That's certainly not the only reason to buy into a popular platform - in fact, the biggest reason to buy into a popular platform is because that platform will enjoy far better support from developers, giving those buyers access to a much larger set of apps and services. It also means that should their needs change in a week or a month or a year, they can be assured that the app or service they'll need in the future will be available for their phone - which is NOT something that niche platforms can promise. People choose Android and iOS for that reason far more often than because they want to "fit in with the crowd."

[swisssri]

If they add Play store directly to BB10 then it will be amazing.....

Posted via CB10

[TgeekB]

Screens and camera tech advanced independently of mobile phones. That's because there's still pretty healthy competition in the television and camera market... Same thing can be said about CPU and GPU technology. All of those things would have advanced exactly the same even if smartphones didn't exist...

And what does a pkb have to do with anything? I want technology to advance but I'm not one of those dummies that think newer has to be better. There are many advancements that are actually not an improvement. Am I saying they shouldn't happen? Of course not, companies need to take risks to make new things. I've tried the only other option, all-touch (use one on a daily basis actually) and there are just too many advantages to a pkb beyond typing to make me want to use an all-touch for every day.

Look at Ford, they tried to do an all-touch control system for their cars entertainment and climate control systems. But then they got feedback from users that said while touchscreen controls work ok for most entertainment things, it's too much of a hassle to have to wait for the system to boot to change the A/C or to have to look at the screen while driving to make those changes, so Ford went back to knobs and physical buttons for their climate controls. The "newer has to be better" crowd would say that is going backwards. But we know better right?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I agree about the all-touch systems in cars. Hate them mainly because I think they're dangerous. Too difficult to use while driving. As you said, they got negative feedback from customers so are going back to knobs.

The opposite is true of smartphones. The feedback they get is people want all-touch screens, larger screens, etc. That doesn't make people any less intelligent than you. You can continue to use PKB if it works for you, most people have happily moved on.

[TgeekB]

Did these people TELL YOU that they bought those phones to "fit in"? Because it seems to me that you are jumping to that conclusion. That's certainly not the only reason to buy into a popular platform - in fact, the biggest reason to buy into a popular platform is because that platform will enjoy far better support from developers, giving those buyers access to a much larger set of apps and services. It also means that should their needs change in a week or a month or a year, they can be assured that the app or service they'll need in the future will be available for their phone - which is NOT something that niche platforms can promise. People choose Android and iOS for that reason far more often than because they want to "fit in with the crowd."

Some people have convinced themselves of this. They have to mock others in order to lift themselves up. Sad really.

[blackmass]

I agree about the all-touch systems in cars. Hate them mainly because I think they're dangerous. Too difficult to use while driving. As you said, they got negative feedback from customers so are going back to knobs.

The opposite is true of smartphones. The feedback they get is people want all-touch screens, larger screens, etc. That doesn't make people any less intelligent than you. You can continue to use PKB if it works for you, most people have happily moved on.

Middle path wud b a PKB integrated sleek phone case in a landscape design. The ones who want it buy the case.
I wonder if touch sensitivity cud be integrated into such a keyboard.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[TgeekB]

Middle path wud b a PKB integrated sleek phone case in a landscape design. The ones who want it buy the case.
I wonder if touch sensitivity cud be integrated into such a keyboard.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

There's lots of new things coming down the pipe. Anything is possible including new types of keyboards.

You know what else is interesting is the foldable screen technology they are working on. I saw an article where Samsung has a prototype of a wallet -type phone that unfolds to be twice as large, much like a book. Very cool.

.

[slagman5]

In this case, I'm talking about the infrastructure of apps, services, and developer tools & APIs. Since each platform wanted unique (native) apps, services, and developer tools, that's a whole lot of duplicate infrastructure and a whole lot of work for developers - who prefer to only support 2, or maybe 3 platforms, because duplicating all of their work 4, 5, or 6 times for dramatically fewer users just doesn't make sense.

That's up to each individual developer. I don't see how that negatively affects the consumers...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Did these people TELL YOU that they bought those phones to "fit in"? Because it seems to me that you are jumping to that conclusion. That's certainly not the only reason to buy into a popular platform - in fact, the biggest reason to buy into a popular platform is because that platform will enjoy far better support from developers, giving those buyers access to a much larger set of apps and services. It also means that should their needs change in a week or a month or a year, they can be assured that the app or service they'll need in the future will be available for their phone - which is NOT something that niche platforms can promise. People choose Android and iOS for that reason far more often than because they want to "fit in with the crowd."

Uh, think I was pretty clear, they TOLD ME that they bought them because they were told they were the "hot" phones to have or that they were the popular phones to have despite them originally not wanting what those phones offered them.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

I agree about the all-touch systems in cars. Hate them mainly because I think they're dangerous. Too difficult to use while driving. As you said, they got negative feedback from customers so are going back to knobs.

The opposite is true of smartphones. The feedback they get is people want all-touch screens, larger screens, etc. That doesn't make people any less intelligent than you. You can continue to use PKB if it works for you, most people have happily moved on.

I don't get where you're getting this whole intelligence thing from. I never said people who use all-touch are less intelligent. If that was the case, I'd be talking about my wife, mother, sister, and pretty much everyone I know. The only thing I've said are against people who seem to WANT competition to die... I don't get how it's so hard to understand, seriously...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Some people have convinced themselves of this. They have to mock others in order to lift themselves up. Sad really.

Yah, I hope you're talking about all of the people who mock anyone using a BB or anything not Samsung or Apple. Because I've never put anyone down for their choice of phones. If you think I have then you've completely misunderstood everything that I've said and have based your entire mindset on a false-truth...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[TgeekB]

I don't get where you're getting this whole intelligence thing from. I never said people who use all-touch are less intelligent. If that was the case, I'd be talking about my wife, mother, sister, and pretty much everyone I know. The only thing I've said are against people who seem to WANT competition to die... I don't get how it's so hard to understand, seriously...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

No one said they want competition (blackberry) to die. It already has. Pretty clear.
There is plenty of competition driving innovation. It's just not what you want.