[slagman5]

Not sure that's quite fair or accurate. You could say that BB users are contrarians who are themselves just trying to be cool by choosing these obscure things that most people don't use. Both statements are gross generalizations, and quite unfair IMO.



You made a leap there that isn't reasonable. Think back to the old days of videotape. Most people chose VHS decks for their homes. Was it because they feared being ostracized by their friends and neighbors? I don't think so. I think it's because if you walked into a video store back then you would find hundreds of movies on VHS, and maybe (maybe!) one small shelf in the back corner with Betamax movies. Maybe 10 Betamax movies you had already seen, and even that went away pretty quickly.

Some people cared about the quality difference. Most people just wanted the much wider selection of movies and made the totally rational choice in that situation and went with VHS (because it was the popular choice)



BlackBerry came to us and said we could make the same apps we have on Android and iOS, except this time for a tiny population of users. What would have been the point? How could we have ever justified the expense of maintenance alone?

There was not one single feature that we could have made on BB10 that we didn't already have on Android. At best, the app would have been feature identical to Android. So why bother? We're not a charity intended to help the poor disadvantaged operating systems find their place in the world.

We also don't place ATM's in tiny towns or in the middle of cornfields on the off chance someone may walk buy it someday. We put ATMs where we have many customers and where they will be used. If an ATM is not seeing enough traffic, we remove it. Same logic applies to where we place our apps.

As of right now, some simple things about the OS that Android cannot do:
1. Swipe gestures from any apps
2. Full toolbelt integration. Physical call send and end keys are really useful, and the bb key to bring up settings is so much better than having to reach the edges of the screen to access things.
3. Ability to use volume rockers to skip forward and backwards while listening to music
4. Notification sounds come to the phone while playing music through a bluetooth speaker so to not interrupt your music or announce to the world you're having a conversation with someone
5. Full Hub integration (the Hub on Android is only partially there, but maybe with more updates it could get better)
6. Full notification control, Android gives more options than iphone, but still not on the level of BB. Whenever I get a notification, without even looking at my phone I know what type of notification it is as well as who it's from because I have different sounds for different contacts and for different types (email, text, etc.). Even vibrate only mode, I have a priority theme, really non-essential communication would not vibrate at all, low priority will vibrate once, normal is 2, and high is 3, etc.

Those are just things I use daily on my personal phone that I can't do on the Android I use at work.

Now does that make BB10 a "better" OS? No, anyone who just arbitrarily assigns one OS as "better" than the other is just a fanboy or can only think of things using their own priorities as a gold standard (basically narcissists) not everyone will find these features useful, I do, and I know others who does too. Android has features that BB10 doesn't. It makes the OS's different and give us choices in what we want in a mobile OS. Had the companies like Shazam, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, etc. Would have given all of the platforms equal treatment and had all of the same apps across all platforms (windows phone as well) then I'm sure the decision of which phone you buy won't be "Well, there are features I would want, but I have to use this app so I'm forced to use this phone." Instead people can focus on getting a phone system that fills as much of their desires as they can.

Am I saying that would have made BB10 a leader? Nope, but it would have at least made it an ecosystem where you have 4 choices (or more) rather than now, where it's either an Android or iPhone, so the duopoly can basically get away with anything because they know you have no other choice.

But hey, don't worry, you're part of the majority, so pat yourself on the back. Who cares about anything else...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[conite]

Apart from the tool belt, I have everything set up on my BlackBerry Android device as I had it on bb10. I do have a couple of apps to extend the capabilities of the OS in order to do this. Blackberry Android Launcher has three swipe up gestures from anywhere and you can program those gestures to be anything you want.

[app_Developer]

As of right now, some simple things about the OS that Android cannot do:
1. Swipe gestures from any apps
2. Full toolbelt integration. Physical call send and end keys are really useful, and the bb key to bring up settings is so much better than having to reach the edges of the screen to access things....

So I'm looking at it more from a developer perspective. If we made our banking apps for BB10, what features could we give our users that we don't already have in our Android or iOS apps?

One would be Hub integration for notifications, but that's not very attractive to us since we actually want users to come to our app and interact with us there. This is for security and privacy reasons (since we're a bank) and for business reasons as well.

I was responding to the chicken and egg issue of why app developers largely refused BB's requests for apps on BB10. We said no, many other people said no. The primary negative was no users, but there wasn't a counterpoint to that to I can think of. BB couldn't think of one for us either.

[last_attempt]

I'm seriously considering getting another Q5 or 10 for longevity. I really like the pocket ability of these phones and the pkb is better suited for my needs
I have an android but find it very fiddly moving around apps and it always seem to load adds and videos everywhere.
So the future is not looking to bright for me...


Posted via CB10

[sidtek50]

I'm seriously considering getting another Q5 or 10 for longevity. I really like the pocket ability of these phones and the pkb is better suited for my needs
I have an android but find it very fiddly moving around apps and it always seem to load adds and videos everywhere.
So the future is not looking to bright for me...


Posted via CB10

What loads ads? It says in the play store whether ads are built into the app or not. If you totally don't want to see ads you should look at installing f-droid which has fully open source apps which aren't ad supported.

[last_attempt]

What loads ads? It says in the play store whether ads are built into the app or not. If you totally don't want to see ads you should look at installing f-droid which has fully open source apps which aren't ad supported.

Can't remember specifically at the moment, just a general feel compared to bb10. I'm sure my set up isn't ideal and with Android there's probably a lot of ways to get it the way you like but the idea of downloading a bunch of apps to try to get it there doesn't appeal to me at all.

I hope BlackBerry android can be that out of the box at some point but I doubt it is now, let alone the minimum size of phones being made are too large for my liking or missing a pkb.

Posted via CB10

[kelom]

I hope not.

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[rcab]

I believe the inability to update the runtime will cause it to become less relative for most. I miss using my passport but am getting accustom to the Priv and DTEK. If the runtime could be upgraded I would go back to my passport. Today's world a person needs some apps that are only available on Apple or Android. For those who don't need apps, then continue enjoying your phone. For each person it is a personal choice like choosing what automotive manufacturer and model is right for you.

[slagman5]

Apart from the tool belt, I have everything set up on my BlackBerry Android device as I had it on bb10. I do have a couple of apps to extend the capabilities of the OS in order to do this. Blackberry Android Launcher has three swipe up gestures from anywhere and you can program those gestures to be anything you want.

Cool, so you can peek from an app and then if you so choose to ignore it just go back to the app? I haven't tried the BB launcher yet so I have to ask.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

So I'm looking at it more from a developer perspective. If we made our banking apps for BB10, what features could we give our users that we don't already have in our Android or iOS apps?

One would be Hub integration for notifications, but that's not very attractive to us since we actually want users to come to our app and interact with us there. This is for security and privacy reasons (since we're a bank) and for business reasons as well.

I was responding to the chicken and egg issue of why app developers largely refused BB's requests for apps on BB10. We said no, many other people said no. The primary negative was no users, but there wasn't a counterpoint to that to I can think of. BB couldn't think of one for us either.

But that's the whole point. Many people say no to being a user because of no apps. App developers said no to making apps because of no users...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Rui Caldeira]

I believe the inability to update the runtime will cause it to become less relative for most. I miss using my passport but am getting accustom to the Priv and DTEK. If the runtime could be upgraded I would go back to my passport. Today's world a person needs some apps that are only available on Apple or Android. For those who don't need apps, then continue enjoying your phone. For each person it is a personal choice like choosing what automotive manufacturer and model is right for you.

I don't believe they are allowed to upgrade Android runtime but after the DTEK improvements on the HUB and security will bring a fresh air to Blackberry (I hope)

[conite]

Cool, so you can peek from an app and then if you so choose to ignore it just go back to the app? I haven't tried the BB launcher yet so I have to ask.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Yes. You use the productivity tab for that. You can peek at the hub, calendar, tasks, or contacts.

[app_Developer]

But that's the whole point. Many people say no to being a user because of no apps. App developers said no to making apps because of no users...

Yes, this is a problem which has existed for as long as human beings have created complementary products. It's a serious barrier to entry to many industries.

Look at credit cards. People know how to make cheaper (for the consumer) and much safer credit cards. That's been known for a long time, but no consumer will sign up for a new credit card that they can't use at all the places they use cards. And no merchant will bother accepting a new card that none of their customers have.

Both sides are acting rationally and you can't blame either side, really.

This is why Tesla has to make their chicken and egg at the same time. They produce cars and are also investing billions in the charging stations people need to use the cars with much less range anxiety.

[slagman5]

Yes. You use the productivity tab for that. You can peek at the hub, calendar, tasks, or contacts.

You get to the productivity tab through a gesture as well? Like you can assign it to the bottom of the screen? Because if it's like the top drawer on stock Android to see notifications, that is useless as reaching the top of the screen is the most inconvenient possible place for it. I hope the BB launcher will handle that differently.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Yes, this is a problem which has existed for as long as human beings have created complementary products. It's a serious barrier to entry to many industries.

Look at credit cards. People know how to make cheaper (for the consumer) and much safer credit cards. That's been known for a long time, but no consumer will sign up for a new credit card that they can't use at all the places they use cards. And no merchant will bother accepting a new card that none of their customers have.

Both sides are acting rationally and you can't blame either side, really.

This is why Tesla has to make their chicken and egg at the same time. They produce cars and are also investing billions in the charging stations people need to use the cars with much less range anxiety.

I understand what you're talking about. I'm not expecting every company to just go ahead and do it. And not talking about you specifically, but it's a fact that there being only 2 OS's to deal with benefits all of the companies involved. So even if in the beginning when it's not clear how popular BB10 could be, the big players knew it would benefit them more to simply not support it and hope that consumers follow suit. That's my point. I have no delusional expectation of companies just doing what doesn't benefit them, my issue is how so many consumers accept it as simply that it's an inferior system just because the big companies want them to believe it is.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[tre10]

You get to the productivity tab through a gesture as well? Like you can assign it to the bottom of the screen? Because if it's like the top drawer on stock Android to see notifications, that is useless as reaching the top of the screen is the most inconvenient possible place for it. I hope the BB launcher will handle that differently.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Yes it's possible. The tab can be placed on either side of the screen and can be dragged to any position along the edge. It can't be assigned to the bottom of the screen though per say. You can place it near the bottom left or right. A swipe inwards opens it. Hope that helps

[conite]

You get to the productivity tab through a gesture as well? Like you can assign it to the bottom of the screen? Because if it's like the top drawer on stock Android to see notifications, that is useless as reaching the top of the screen is the most inconvenient possible place for it. I hope the BB launcher will handle that differently.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

It slides out from either the left or right of the screen (selectable), and at any elevation (selectable).

It is very similar to peek on BB10. It's actually better considering you can see not only the HUB, but other things simply by sliding your thumb up and down.

[last_attempt]

Some brave soul should make a video on how close you can get a dtek/priv to work like BlackBerry 10

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[app_Developer]

I understand what you're talking about. I'm not expecting every company to just go ahead and do it. And not talking about you specifically, but it's a fact that there being only 2 OS's to deal with benefits all of the companies involved. So even if in the beginning when it's not clear how popular BB10 could be, the big players knew it would benefit them more to simply not support it and hope that consumers follow suit. That's my point. I have no delusional expectation of companies just doing what doesn't benefit them, my issue is how so many consumers accept it as simply that it's an inferior system just because the big companies want them to believe it is.

Don't forget that 7 years ago, though, there were 2 OS's that dominated all the others: Symbian and BBOS. Who would have imagined both would be dead a few years later?

But still some big companies eventually did support iOS and Android. One reason is because if I look at apps that I've written or that the company I work for publishes today, there is no way we could ever have made apps like this on Symbian or BBOS. That is a significant factor.

BB10 offered us hub integration (which we don't really even want). What else did we get as developers for us to be excited? Every API in BB10 was a subset of what we already had in iOS or Android. On the other hand, the first iPhone SDK was amazing compared to the garbage we dealt with in Symbian or BBOS. So that made a big difference in developer support for iOS. Then Android showed up with hundreds of millions of users which we were also pretty excited about.

But both were new entrants just a few years ago. So it's not as if app developers are closed to new operating systems. They just have to wow us with something developers want.

[conite]

Some brave soul should make a video on how close you can get a dtek/priv to work like BlackBerry 10

Posted via CB10

It's not the same, but it's equally efficient.

Between the 3 swipe up gestures from anywhere, the always available productivity tab, and the convenience key (DTEK50), you can fly in and out of the HUB, calendar, contacts, and tasks with ease.

You just need to re-train your muscle memory.

[slagman5]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...109d6381d9.jpg Yes it's possible. The tab can be placed on either side of the screen and can be dragged to any position along the edge. It can't be assigned to the bottom of the screen though per say. You can place it near the bottom left or right. A swipe inwards opens it. Hope that helps

Cool, thanks for that explanation. The sides isn't bad, just hate the top placement like on stock Android. I wish BB will do even more work on the skinning of Android, if they can add actual functional changes like being able to skip songs by long pressing the volume keys, that would be awesome. I hate having to take the phone completely out to touch the controls on the screen. With my BB, while it's still in the holster I just long press the volume keys if I want to replay a song or skip it. That and making it so while connected to a BT speaker your notifications go to the phone and not through the speaker.

I know full hub integration might be hard because some companies would likely frown upon BB making it so people don't have to open their app, but we can dream right? Lol. And then being able to set custom notifications for each individual notification type for each individual contact would be nice too (or have they done that already in their launcher?).

I think with some work they can get their Android experience as close as possible since it doesn't look good for BB10's future. Those of us who enjoy BB10's features will have to look elsewhere and it would be nice if BB provided that solution for us since they were the ones that screwed the pooch with BB10, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

Don't forget that 7 years ago, though, there were 2 OS's that dominated all the others: Symbian and BBOS. Who would have imagined both would be dead a few years later?

But still some big companies eventually did support iOS and Android. One reason is because if I look at apps that I've written or that the company I work for publishes today, there is no way we could ever have made apps like this on Symbian or BBOS. That is a significant factor.

BB10 offered us hub integration (which we don't really even want). What else did we get as developers for us to be excited? Every API in BB10 was a subset of what we already had in iOS or Android. On the other hand, the first iPhone SDK was amazing compared to the garbage we dealt with in Symbian or BBOS. So that made a big difference in developer support for iOS. Then Android showed up with hundreds of millions of users which we were also pretty excited about.

But both were new entrants just a few years ago. So it's not as if app developers are closed to new operating systems. They just have to wow us with something developers want.

BB10 was definitely too late to the game, which was solely the faults of BB's leaders at that time. But the thing that doesn't really go by what you've said is how Facebook stopped allowing BB to use their API. Everything you've explained could explain why some developers wouldn't want to make apps, but here BB wasn't asking Facebook to make anything. They simply didn't like that BB users could access facebook without opening an app made by them, which goes in line with what I was saying about them wanting to force BB users off BB10 since they don't benefit from it...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[tre10]

Cool, thanks for that explanation. The sides isn't bad, just hate the top placement like on stock Android. I wish BB will do even more work on the skinning of Android, if they can add actual functional changes like being able to skip songs by long pressing the volume keys, that would be awesome. I hate having to take the phone completely out to touch the controls on the screen. With my BB, while it's still in the holster I just long press the volume keys if I want to replay a song or skip it. That and making it so while connected to a BT speaker your notifications go to the phone and not through the speaker.

I know full hub integration might be hard because some companies would likely frown upon BB making it so people don't have to open their app, but we can dream right? Lol. And then being able to set custom notifications for each individual notification type for each individual contact would be nice too (or have they done that already in their launcher?).

I think with some work they can get their Android experience as close as possible since it doesn't look good for BB10's future. Those of us who enjoy BB10's features will have to look elsewhere and it would be nice if BB provided that solution for us since they were the ones that screwed the pooch with BB10, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

The option to add a ringtone for each contact is there as well on my priv at least. There are ways to get it close to BB10 in function. It won't be the exact same way but you can just retrain your muscle memory.

[slagman5]

It's not the same, but it's equally efficient.

Between the 3 swipe up gestures from anywhere, the always available productivity tab, and the convenience key (DTEK50), you can fly in and out of the HUB, calendar, contacts, and tasks with ease.

You just need to re-train your muscle memory.

Hopefully if or when the pkb Android device (not a slider) comes out it'll be like the Priv and also have a play/pause button for media controls though.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[leeiling]

Has anybody noticed that OP isn't in the discussion?
I don't really mind since it happens in a lot of forums.
Be it dead or not, it still does what I ask it to to, 24/7/365.
The only thing that BlackBerry 10 fails me is the camera.
They just have never ever done it right.
I don't hate or like Android, nor do I hate or like iOS because there are just as equally advantages about either.
I do love BlackBerry 10, but, there comes the key word, but if it is not coming with more features, it will be officially dead someday and somehow.
An OS will be claimed dead when it is not being developed any more, and based on the fact that the other two OSs are going so fast when it comes to new features, I have to say I can not be too optimistic about the future of BlackBerry 10. Saying that, the truth is I am getting used more and more to stupid iOS and so-called open Android. They can do what I want them to do,but not in the way I am used to.

So, does anybody really mind that OP isn't in the discussion?


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