[fein34]

concerning the matter of creating themes, we all know that plazmic has failed us miserably in the documentation department. so how does someone figure out how to make a theme? they take the information that's out there, and do it themselves.

where does someone find such information? why, from other users in internet forums and message boards, of course. now, i understand not wanting to freely distribute one's own intellectual property that time and effort went into creating. let me be clear, i'm not advocating free hand-outs; that could only lead to being ripped off or having cookie-cutter knockoffs flood the forums, the "give a man a fish, and he'll eat this evening" part. i would never ask someone to simply hand over their code.

that being said, i can't see harm in pointing others in the proper direction to be able to figure things out on their own. it's only fair that if someone is willing to spend the time and effort to learn, that they should be able to reap the benefits of doing so. everyone needs to "earn their stripes"; this would be the "teach a man to fish, and he can eat for a lifetime" part.

frankly, i think it's great that there are people who figure things out (hidden docks, crossbars, os 4.5 full-screen banners, etc.) for themselves. and google is good for some things (hidden docks, crossbars, etc.) but there are examples of plenty more in this forum which would require a strong knowledge of composer and a general foreknowledge of hand-coding .svg files-without documentation, there's really no way do this on one's own.

for those people with the programming expertise to do this on their own, congrats. but don't be so pompous as to "ration out" how you arrived at it. it's not a trade secret that you are going to earn royalties enough from which to retire early. it's putting together a few animations on a device which you will not own in a year's time.

i think this, or any restriction of information, is absolutely ludicrous and against the purpose of what these forums, and the internet itself, are for-to disseminate information and help out those with similar interests. if someone is so worried about loosing precious profits from their $7 themes, they should find higher-paying day jobs. furthermore, if someone's work is so high-quality and professional anyways, they should have confidence in their own skill and shouldn't worry about a little competition from beginners learning. besides, competition promotes innovation.

there will always be a place for premium themes; some people will not want to take the effort to make their own themes, some people will not be able to make their own, and some people will simply find what they want in the online store. if you must take credit, do so for being the person who first developed an innovation, not for being the only one in control of it. this is a forum for blackberry users, not the emmys-your fame only extends as far as the dimensions of your skull. go on reality TV if you think you're such hot ****.

fear not, merely pointing those who have the desire to figure it out on their own will not lead to some catastrophic end. i think it will only benefit all of us.

the bottom line, for those who don't want to read the whole thing: google only takes you so far; if someone asks you a question in the forums on where you found out how to do something NOT on google, don't dismiss/ignore them.

[cindylike24]

concerning the matter of creating themes, we all know that plazmic has failed us miserably in the documentation department. so how does someone figure out how to make a theme? they take the information that's out there, and do it themselves.

where does someone find such information? why, from other users in internet forums and message boards, of course. now, i understand not wanting to freely distribute one's own intellectual property that time and effort went into creating. let me be clear, i'm not advocating free hand-outs; that could only lead to being ripped off or having cookie-cutter knockoffs flood the forums, the "give a man a fish, and he'll eat this evening" part. i would never ask someone to simply hand over their code.

that being said, i can't see harm in pointing others in the proper direction to be able to figure things out on their own. it's only fair that if someone is willing to spend the time and effort to learn, that they should be able to reap the benefits of doing so. everyone needs to "earn their stripes"; this would be the "teach a man to fish, and he can eat for a lifetime" part.

frankly, i think it's great that there are people who figure things out (hidden docks, crossbars, os 4.5 full-screen banners, etc.) for themselves. but since many of the really cool things (the aforementioned hidden docks, crossbars, os 4.5 full-screen banners, etc.) require composer and a general foreknowledge of hand-coding .svg files, without documentation, there's really no way to begin.

for those people with the programming expertise to do this on their own, congrats. but don't be so pompous as to "ration out" how you arrived at it. it's not a trade secret that you are going to earn royalties enough from which to retire early. it's putting together a few animations on a device which you will not own in a year's time.

i think this, or any restriction of information, is absolutely ludicrous and against the purpose of what these forums, and the internet itself, are for-to disseminate information and help out those with similar interests. if someone is so worried about loosing precious profits from their $7 themes, they should find higher-paying day jobs. furthermore, if someone's work is so high-quality and professional anyways, they should have confidence in their own skill and shouldn't worry about a little competition from beginners learning. besides, competition promotes innovation.

there will always be a place for premium themes; some people will not want to take the effort to make their own themes, some people will not be able to make their own, and some people will simply find what they want in the online store. if you must take credit, do so for being the person who first developed an innovation, not for being the only one in control of it. this is a forum for blackberry users, not the emmys-your fame only extends as far as the dimensions of your skull. go on reality TV if you think you're such hot ****.

fear not, merely pointing those who have the desire to figure it out on their own will not lead to some catastrophic end. i think it will only benefit all of us.

What made you feel like you had to post a message like this? I feel like you are being extremely hard on people who make the themes in this part of the crackberry forums. Most of these people make these themes out of the kindness of their hearts. I know I do. I just started making these themes just recently and I've done a few of the requests on this forum. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the themes that are posted on this forum free? I thought that they were.

There. I've got everything out of my system after reading this post. I feel better now.

[Shao128]

I only skimmed through your post, but its seems you are complaining at the lack of information on building themes.

Really, you just haven't looked hard enough, there are tons of resources out there. There is a difference between teaching and spoon feeding.

You talk about learning complex things such as SVG, but how can one expected to create advanced themes if they can't figure out google?

If you're going to teach a man to fish, he's got to take the steps to get into the boat himself

Media Library
http://forums.crackberry.com/f115/sv...orials-259690/
Theme Development Tutorials - PimpMyBerry!
Tutorial: How To Make a Sliding Hidden Dock Theme - PimpMyBerry!
How To Create Your Own Blackberry Themes Using Plazmic Theme Builder
http://forums.crackberry.com/f16/how...ossbar-118974/
flick n slide tutorial
http://www.plazmic.com/en/pdfs/Plazm...User_Guide.pdf


http://www.plazmic.com/en/pdfs/SVG_f...martphones.pdf
Step-by-step tutorial on creating custom BlackBerry device themes! - BlackBerryForums.com : Your Number One BlackBerry Community

[fein34]

What made you feel like you had to post a message like this? I feel like you are being extremely hard on people who make the themes in this part of the crackberry forums. Most of these people make these themes out of the kindness of their hearts. I know I do. I just started making these themes just recently and I've done a few of the requests on this forum. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the themes that are posted on this forum free? I thought that they were.

what made me post this? when i've asked certain users for help, i've been ignored. i'm not faulting anyone for making a theme out of kindness, that's great-that has nothing to do with my post. however, i'm sorry, you are wrong-not all themes on this forum are free. as you go through more posts, you will see that there are plenty posts to links that are for premium themes.

[fein34]

I only skimmed through your post, but its seems you are complaining at the lack of information on building themes.

Really, you just haven't looked hard enough, there are tons of resources out there. There is a difference between teaching and spoon feeding.

You talk about learning complex things such as SVG, but how can one expected to create advanced themes if they can't figure out google?

If you're going to teach a man to fish, he's got to take the steps to get into the boat himself

Media Library
http://forums.crackberry.com/f115/sv...orials-259690/
Theme Development Tutorials - PimpMyBerry!
Tutorial: How To Make a Sliding Hidden Dock Theme - PimpMyBerry!
How To Create Your Own Blackberry Themes Using Plazmic Theme Builder
http://forums.crackberry.com/f16/how...ossbar-118974/
flick n slide tutorial
http://www.plazmic.com/en/pdfs/Plazm...User_Guide.pdf


http://www.plazmic.com/en/pdfs/SVG_f...martphones.pdf
Step-by-step tutorial on creating custom BlackBerry device themes! - BlackBerryForums.com : Your Number One BlackBerry Community

yeah, i figured out google, thanks for pointing that out-i've found out how to make hidden docks and crossbars. that's no problem, as you demonstrated, those are easily obtained. my problem isn't *finding* information, it's having other members help where google falls short. you may have missed that this is the point of the post by skimming it only. i've asked other members who have authored crossbar themes as to why mine was running slowly and got dismissed. and i have asked others about full screen banners in os4.5 (something missing from your list) and been outright ignored.

[Shao128]

Well I just looked through your previous posts and I dont see any posts about asking for help. So Im assuming you've either PMed/Emailed people directly asking for help.

Ive have people PM for the help for something that they should have searched for on the forum or posted publicly the question. Im sure theme developers gets tons of private messages and simply dont have the time to devote to answering each one. They arent under any obligation to help you, but some will. If you have a question post it up publicly in the theme forum.

[fein34]

Well I just looked through your previous posts and I dont see any posts about asking for help. So Im assuming you've either PMed/Emailed people directly asking for help.

correct, mostly-but see below.

Im sure theme developers gets tons of private messages and simply dont have the time to devote to answering each one.

take a look at the thread for the new "platinum" theme in this very forum. not only did i ask a question-it was the first post to the thread-but you will see the developer had plenty of time to answer each and every other comment made after i made mine.

They arent under any obligation to help you, but some will. If you have a question post it up in the theme forum.

if no one will help, what's the point in posting a question in a forum?

[Shao128]

OK I just looked at the thread, and I can't speak for the author, but if I had to guess, I would say it was ignored because the purpose of the thread for for the author to promote his new theme, not turn into a discussion on how to create a full screen banner.

[ryaninfg]

Everyone comes up with their own tricks and signatures eventually... Some will share, some wont. Maybe if you post a theme that people can see and critique other Developers will be willing to help. Not everyone gives a panhandler change right away, but after awhile one might see the person could really use the dollar.. Trial and error, Trial and error.

[fein34]

Maybe if you post a theme that people can see and critique other Developers will be willing to help.

ryan, if you will remember, you asked me for the .svg for my theme entitled "fomalhaut" a few weeks back. although i wasn't comfortable giving you my actual work, i shared with you the names of the users and descriptions of their posts detailing how i did what i did (i would have sent you the actual links, but i believe i was at work when i replied-if you still would like the direct links, let me know). this is all i ask from anyone else.

[DarthHideous]

I was just browsing the forum and saw this thread. I'm a brand spanking newbie on crackberry and in my VERY short time I've asked for help and people have responded. I really don't know what prompted this long diatribe but I would think that ANY help would...well, help. Google has helped me do a lot on my own with my Curve but when I found this site it was like a cool drink of water...extremely refreshing. EVERYONE I have come into contact with on these forums and elsewhere on this site have been amazingly helpful and courteous. I would hope that posts like these that, regardlesshow they were intended, come off as angry and sophomoric.

That is why I just told at least 5 other BB users in the last few days about this site and specifically about these forums. They don't seem to have the angry trolls lurking trying to ruin the "happy" everytime I log in...

I hope I'm still right...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[fein34]

I would hope that posts like these that, regardlesshow they were intended, come off as angry and sophomoric.

I hope I'm still right...

since when is someone expressing their opinion a sophomoric act? i didn't point fingers, i didn't call anyone names-i expressed my thoughts in a lucid, descript fashion. my words reflect my experiences-if you've had better ones, that's wonderful. i'm not telling anyone they are "right" or "wrong" for how they feel. if they don't agree with me, that's fine. it's not about being wrong or right. it's how i feel.

[ryaninfg]

ryan, if you will remember, you asked me for the .svg for my theme entitled "fomalhaut" a few weeks back. although i wasn't comfortable giving you my actual work, i shared with you the names of the users and descriptions of their posts detailing how i did what i did (i would have sent you the actual links, but i believe i was at work when i replied-if you still would like the direct links, let me know). this is all i ask from anyone else.

Yes this is true, but I offered to purchase it from you to put on my own personnal theme.. I didn't just ask for a handout. You could show me all the tutorials for composer and I still wouldn't understand it..

[fein34]

Yes this is true, but I offered to purchase it from you to put on my own personnal theme.. I didn't just ask for a handout. You could show me all the tutorials for composer and I still wouldn't understand it..

don't get me wrong, ryan, i'm not saying you asked for a handout. the point i was trying to make with respect to the situation was that it is possible to communicate how to do something without releasing one's intellectual property.

if what i directed you to didn't make sense, i would be happy to send you a few sample .svg files showing how i implemented my code.

[nfldberryuser]

I'd like to thank Sho128, ryaninfg and the other developers out there for being so helpful and forthcoming to those of us seeking help. The list of links Sho128 posted is particularly useful. I don't know about others, but I have no aspiration to become a professional theme builder or developer, but I do like trying to make things for myself and the assistance I've gotten on this site has been absolutely outstanding!

[sunshower.beauty]

i think a big point to make out of this is not that people aren't giving him all the answers of things that they may have taken a lot of time and work to figure out, but the fact that he's been blatantly ignored.

it's understandable that people who work really hard to make the themes they do, and make some great ones, wouldn't want to just hand out all their secrets. whether it be because they don't want someone to steal their thunder, money, etc, or it's just a sense of being greedy, or just wanting to teach with hard love by not giving all the answers instead of just helping find out how to. there's a difference between telling step by step how to do something, and giving an idea or hint how to, or a nudge in the right direction.

the thing is that instead of them saying they don't want to give that information away, they just ignore. it's rude. he's not asking for a handout, just looking for help. in forums. on a website. that's here for news and help. keyword: help. how hard is it for someone to say, i'm sorry i don't really want to give away that information. or, i'm sorry i don't want to explain to you how, but i can point you in the right direction. or even more simply, 'no.'?

maybe if you guys actually read with an unbiased position and didn't get your panties in a bunch you'd understand what he was saying and where he was coming from. i only hope you remember this post when someone decides to not help/ignore you when you ask something on a a forum to help.

[ryaninfg]

i think a big point to make out of this is not that people aren't giving him all the answers of things that they may have taken a lot of time and work to figure out, but the fact that he's been blatantly ignored.

it's understandable that people who work really hard to make the themes they do, and make some great ones, wouldn't want to just hand out all their secrets. whether it be because they don't want someone to steal their thunder, money, etc, or it's just a sense of being greedy, or just wanting to teach with hard love by not giving all the answers instead of just helping find out how to. there's a difference between telling step by step how to do something, and giving an idea or hint how to, or a nudge in the right direction.

the thing is that instead of them saying they don't want to give that information away, they just ignore. it's rude. he's not asking for a handout, just looking for help. in forums. on a website. that's here for news and help. keyword: help. how hard is it for someone to say, i'm sorry i don't really want to give away that information. or, i'm sorry i don't want to explain to you how, but i can point you in the right direction. or even more simply, 'no.'?

maybe if you guys actually read with an unbiased position and didn't get your panties in a bunch you'd understand what he was saying and where he was coming from. i only hope you remember this post when someone decides to not help/ignore you when you ask something on a a forum to help.

I've been ignored many times.. It happens to everyone.

[guzzl3r]

I am the author of the Platinum theme and would like to get my point across about this whole rant that fein34 has went on . First of all I'm not against helping anyone on this forum or any other forums that I'm a member of but when you reply on one my threads in a condescending tone I reserve the right not to reply to you. When you replied in my thread like Shao128 said I was promoting my new theme and letting people know what I've been working on. I was not throwing a line so there was nothing for you to bite. Then when you PM me you came across as being even more condescending like it was my responsibility to give you whatever you asked for. Like you said in the thread I'm not the first one to do a full screen banner so why this rant against me? Bottom line I found out how to do a full screen banner on my own I didn't PM anybody I didn't ask in a thread and I'm no programmer or coder. I felt a sense of accomplishment when I finally got it. So maybe you should do the same.

[sunshower.beauty]

I've been ignored many times.. It happens to everyone.

so are you saying he doesn't have any right to be even a little upset and able to speak his mind freely in a forum, with freedom of speech because he was/has been igorned? have you never been even the least bit upset, for lack of a better word, when you've been BLATANTLY ignored time and time again?

I am the author of the Platinum theme and would like to get my point across about this whole rant that fein34 has went on . First of all I'm not against helping anyone on this forum or any other forums that I'm a member of but when you reply on one my threads in a condescending tone I reserve the right not to reply to you. When you replied in my thread like Shao128 said I was promoting my new theme and letting people know what I've been working on. I was not throwing a line so there was nothing for you to bite. Then when you PM me you came across as being even more condescending like it was my responsibility to give you whatever you asked for. Like you said in the thread I'm not the first one to do a full screen banner so why this rant against me? Bottom line I found out how to do a full screen banner on my own I didn't PM anybody I didn't ask in a thread and I'm no programmer or coder. I felt a sense of accomplishment when I finally got it. So maybe you should do the same.

i don't think that this post is specifically just targeted at you. you just happened to be the one that he brought up in this post to prove his point to someone else that replied to it. now i don't know what he said that come off that way to you, maybe he was being condesending. maybe it's just the way his proper grammer and typing come off. it's hard to hear peoples true intent over text, especially not knowing them.

again, i am not picking anyone's side, simply stating an unbiased point and trying to show each parties point of view to the other. for all i know, and i don't care, he was condesending, and that is rude. and i'd feel like ignoring someone if they were to me also when asking of something. but then again i'd also state that i felt as though they were be and i no longer feel the want to help them at all. that's me though, you took a different road, and i won't give my opinion on it, and now we've come to this post and it's beginning to get stupid. everyone defending and getting **** hurt.

[fein34]

when you reply on one my threads in a condescending tone I reserve the right not to reply to you. When you replied in my thread like Shao128 said I was promoting my new theme and letting people know what I've been working on. I was not throwing a line so there was nothing for you to bite.

i'm sorry you felt this way. i had absolutely no intent to be condescending or rude. my impression was that my wording was convivial.

Then when you PM me you came across as being even more condescending like it was my responsibility to give you whatever you asked for.

again, i believe i took great care to sound friendly, respectful of your work and not rude. i don't want to step on anyone's toes in the future; what about my PM (as follows) came across as being rude, so that i may fix the way i PM?

ok, so i understand if you don't want to share how to "break" plazmic into letting you use full screen banners in 4.5-that's fair, you probably worked hard to figure it out and don't want to just hand it out to anyone. i can respect that.
however, i've been working hard at it too-i think i'm on the right track, i just can't seem to nail it down-and i was hoping you could at least steer me in the right direction without giving away your intellectual property. i know that i need to change the 8300custom.properties file to include the various "theme." parameters, but i'm not sure which ones need inclusion, deletion, or alteration-i can get theme builder to load up a modified 8300custom.properties file, but changing to any other screen from the home screen crashes the program.
i'd be grateful for anything you could tell me. thanks in advance for your help.

Like you said in the thread I'm not the first one to do a full screen banner so why this rant against me?

this isn't against you directly. your name was never mentioned in the OP.

Bottom line ... So maybe you should do the same.

thank you for illustrating the point of my OP.

[fein34]

i think a big point to make out of this is not that people aren't giving him all the answers of things that they may have taken a lot of time and work to figure out, but the fact that he's been blatantly ignored.

it's understandable that people who work really hard to make the themes they do, and make some great ones, wouldn't want to just hand out all their secrets. whether it be because they don't want someone to steal their thunder, money, etc, or it's just a sense of being greedy, or just wanting to teach with hard love by not giving all the answers instead of just helping find out how to. there's a difference between telling step by step how to do something, and giving an idea or hint how to, or a nudge in the right direction.

the thing is that instead of them saying they don't want to give that information away, they just ignore. it's rude. he's not asking for a handout, just looking for help. in forums. on a website. that's here for news and help. keyword: help. how hard is it for someone to say, i'm sorry i don't really want to give away that information. or, i'm sorry i don't want to explain to you how, but i can point you in the right direction. or even more simply, 'no.'?

maybe if you guys actually read with an unbiased position and didn't get your panties in a bunch you'd understand what he was saying and where he was coming from. i only hope you remember this post when someone decides to not help/ignore you when you ask something on a a forum to help.

thank you, sunshower, for understanding my point of view on this.

[ryaninfg]

Well theres a Forum Moderator, I think we need a forum mediator. Im sorry I got involved with this. I enjoy making themes and fufilling requests for people.. When asked to put a theme together, I have never directed them to plazmic tutorials and rarely do I ignore a request unless it can't be done by me. I enjoy making themes because I know how frustrating plazmic can be. Once agian I am sorry I got involved with this and hopefully this thread can make its way out of the first few pages of this forum and replaced by some free themes. Maybe even a full screen banner one by Fein34. Lets stop trying to make points and get back to making and discovering new themes. Good Luck!!! I'm Out..

[guzzl3r]

i'm sorry you felt this way. i had absolutely no intent to be condescending or rude. my impression was that my wording was convivial.


again, i believe i took great care to sound friendly, respectful of your work and not rude. i don't want to step on anyone's toes in the future; what about my PM (as follows) came across as being rude, so that i may fix the way i PM?




this isn't against you directly. your name was never mentioned in the OP.


thank you for illustrating the point of my OP.

Look this seemed to be directed at me and anyone who has ignored you because you specifically pointed to you're reply in my thread. If that is not the issue then i'm sorry. I was just upset to be included in this discussion, I don't step on other peoples toes on the forums and I don't reply on here unless it's something nice or helpful. I have posted plenty of free themes here and I've even sent people my svg to help them to get started. I don't want to come across as some stuck up person because that's not who I am and what I'm about. It's not my intellectual property it's anybody's who plays around with plazmic and figures things out thats all I'm saying. And I didn't say you were rude in ur PM I said you were condescending which is the way I thought you were in your reply. And again if I misinterpreted you then i'm sorry and I hope this is the end of it.

[fein34]

And again if I misinterpreted you then i'm sorry and I hope this is the end of it.

sounds good to me-if there was any misinterpretation on my behalf, i apologize as well.

hopefully this thread can make its way out of the first few pages of this forum and replaced by some free themes.

again, i like the sound of this. the purpose of this post was not to incite a riot, but to get people talking. but i agree wholeheartedly, let's get back to making themes.

Maybe even a full screen banner one by Fein34.

ok...so anybody able to help me on this?

[guzzl3r]

ok...so anybody able to help me on this? [/QUOTE]

I sent you a PM