Why so little native mem/storage on RIM?

Sorry if there has already been a thread about this.

Seems to me this is the biggest drawback or constraint on an otherwise amazing device. I truly love almost everything about my BB except the dearth of native memory/storage.

I'm not complaining...really. I'm just curious with memory/storage being so relatively inexpensive, and so many devices (like iPhone) having 8GB, 16GB, or more, why doesn't RIM just add more? Doesn't seem like it would cost that much, and would make things much more user-friendly, perhaps. Could also spur more app development since users won't have to be as selective and choosy about what they use or buy. (See Palm OS)

Just curious.

Hmm.. I think that iPhone has more memory might be due to the fact that most people, that owns it, would rather carry just one device and get rid of their iPods. I came from phones with Windows Mobile OS (Samsung Blackjack & also Motorola MPx220, among others) and they too, only have 64MB of internal flash memory. It's a very common size for most of the "smartphones". Now I'm just happy each app doesn't take up a couple of megs like those on WM OS. lol

I dont know why they just dont slam a gig of memory in it. Then you can say because BB OS wont support it. Then I say fire your developers and get new ones...

(ok maybe not fire them, just poke them or something... maybe put them on a stick)

You want an AK Blackberry an IPhone beater so to say. Release one with an 16 gb flash rom in it. There you go, you wouldnt need a card off the bat, apps out teh wazoo?

Why Not?

Originally Posted by Edd

Hmm.. I think that iPhone has more memory might be due to the fact that most people, that owns it, would rather carry just one device and get rid of their iPods. I came from phones with Windows Mobile OS (Samsung Blackjack & also Motorola MPx220, among others) and they too, only have 64MB of internal flash memory. It's a very common size for most of the "smartphones". Now I'm just happy each app doesn't take up a couple of megs like those on WM OS. lol

Yeah, but with WM phones you can install apps to a memory card as well as set the memory card to be used by emails and attachment caching. You can't do that with a BB, which blows.

Originally Posted by LuvMyBB

Sorry if there has already been a thread about this.

Seems to me this is the biggest drawback or constraint on an otherwise amazing device. I truly love almost everything about my BB except the dearth of native memory/storage.

I'm not complaining...really. I'm just curious with memory/storage being so relatively inexpensive, and so many devices (like iPhone) having 8GB, 16GB, or more, why doesn't RIM just add more? Doesn't seem like it would cost that much, and would make things much more user-friendly, perhaps. Could also spur more app development since users won't have to be as selective and choosy about what they use or buy. (See Palm OS)

Just curious.

Have the apple supposed brainiacs sqwitched from using spinning HD's? Have they gone flash? Originally the IPODS had Hitachi Microdrives...

Well, look at the issues winSLOW devices have. Yes, they are slow and you constantly have to reboot.

Also the iPhone isn't capable of having an SD card.

You also have to look at the fact that RIM likes stability. They are definitely working on the memory issues. They have to get a grasp of the memory leak issues first. Imagine how bad the memory leaks would be on a device with more memory...

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Yeah, but with WM phones you can install apps to a memory card as well as set the memory card to be used by emails and attachment caching. You can't do that with a BB, which blows.

True.. I forgot all about that part. :D Glad I made the switch though. BB rulez! lol

Originally Posted by Jayden0606

Well, look at the issues winSLOW devices have. Yes, they are slow and you constantly have to reboot.

Also the iPhone isn't capable of having an SD card.

You also have to look at the fact that RIM likes stability. They are definitely working on the memory issues. They have to get a grasp of the memory leak issues first. Imagine how bad the memory leaks would be on a device with more memory...

Absolutely right. RIM make phone primarily for the corporate market. Suits with BES, if you want. My son works for an utfit that has a ton of them and the group that manages the phones looks at the harware as something that just gets changed if it breaks. If you drop you BB into the hotel shower, they take out the SIM card, goe yo a new one, update their PIN/User/SIM database and off you go.

They have no local applications, no special themes, no Media Card, nuttin'. The MM slot is diabled in their security policy.

This is where RIM sells most (I don't have a percentage) its product. What is required in this market is low cost, security, manageability, supportability and reliability.

Most corps. don't want employees to be supplied with a corporate camera in their phones either. You can imagine the lawsuit when it comes out that all the documents were copied using a BB's camera where the BB itself was suplied by the company. The case could go on for years 'Your honor, they gave me the camera in the phone so I figured it was OK to photograh these documents...'

People like us are a small minority in the Blackberry scheme.

I showed my 8310 to my son's boss and he went ape. He saw my theme and other stuff and immediately wanted some. I connected his BB to my DM and it immediately wanted a password. It was locked by the corporate security policy. No way in.

Neither RIM nor their corporate clients want loads of memory. They just want the phone to work as a phone and have employees get ther emails from the BES.

Originally Posted by LuvMyBB

Seems to me this is the biggest drawback or constraint on an otherwise amazing device. I truly love almost everything about my BB except the dearth of native memory/storage.

Very legitimate complaint and a definite weakness in the BB platform.

Most of us here share your exact observations. We love our BlackBerrys but we are less excited about the memory management we are required to do to keep our beloved Berrys in good operating order.

The answer to your question about why this is so is probably a cultural one. BlackBerry started out as a business tool principally to make phone calls and to get email. BlackBerrys were designed and built to handle those functions. As MP3s and email docs and cameras were introduced to cell phones, BB didn't keep up with the memory demands because it had never been their focus in years past.

BlackBerry is at a crossroad. They no longer want to be just a corporate phone/email machine maker. They want to crossover into the consumer market. The Pearl and Curve editions make this crystal clear as does the planned new clamshell BB product. As they try and make greater and greater dives into the consumer market, they are going to have to make more and more robust memory-cabable machines. There will be no other choice for them to make. It's expand or die.

Until very recently, the embedded RISC processor has had physical limitations that allow a maximum of 64 Mb of memory. This is the critical memory that contains all the programs and all of the data. That was just fine with the Professional/Corporate/Legislative crowd that adopted them.

The new consumer models are showing the strain, extra feature like the Camera or Voice Activated Dialing consume a large amount of that memory.

Fortunately, BlackBerry engineered a provision for Media Storage off the processor. Can you imagine how quickly you would fill a Curve with Tunes and Videos. :D

Why don't they pack it full from the factory? Flash Memory is the limiting factor in producing 'Berry's, Palm's, tree fruit, and Cell phones. There is only so much that can be produced by the chip foundries working at maximum capacity.

Originally Posted by CTLAdvance

Have the apple supposed brainiacs sqwitched from using spinning HD's? Have they gone flash? Originally the IPODS had Hitachi Microdrives...

If you look up the iPhone, yes, its flash. As is the Nano, the Shuffle, and the Touch.

Only the iPod classics with 30 Gig and up are hard drive based. I hav e a classic with 80 gig HD and I had a Nano for walking in the Canadian winter since it was Flash. My Touch is also flash. They have been using both flash and HD for several years now.

There's a convergence of the technologies. We have all know this for years.

The memory issue, as Stoner points out, is mostly a manufacturing based limitation. More capacity is coming on-line as Solid State Hard Disks (SSHD) become more common.

It seeems to me however that there is a clear compromise between computer power and battery life. The more you make the machine do, be it a camera, a phone or a media player, you need batteries. You also need computer ticks and that uses batteries. We are lucky in that the Joint Panel of Experts Group (JPEG) made audio and video formats that use low CPU power to decode (or it can be done off-line) back into what we humans can see and hear.

So if you want a phone, a video camera, streaming TV, digital satellite radio, a still camera, a large amount of storage for media or other stuff, a full media and office suite, worldwide connectivity (GSM & CDMA for starters), IM, email, child filters, and any other amout of sh!t that you can imagine, all this has to be managed by a). the OS and b). the OS itself has to be managedand supported by the CPU. Then we have to have a secure enviroment + a user interface that is cutomizable and pretty. You end up with either a box that you need a wheelbarrow to move around or 5 minutes of battery life. I have not even mentioned heat which is a natural by product of all those CPU ticks and battery usage.

So we are at a point in history. For us, this is right now just pre OS 4.5, just pre iPhone and RIM 3G release.

The convergence must continue and different companies will push the envelope to try and make a living for themselves and because they see a need in the market place and because it can be done.

There is also the question of how small can we make our devices. This is clearly limited by the limitations of humans themselves. SureType technologiy is a heroic effort to make a working keybrard smaller. It succeeded too. The real problem came with the size of the screen. There is a limit to that too. Mainly because web pages are so huge today.

So RIM have put a product one the market that has 64Mb of memory in a phone. This will change but never forget that we are on a road that will never end.

As a child in the 1950s I had an encylopedia that told me that if electronics were a tape measure 1 mile long then right now we have move one inch along it. This one sentence defined my whole life and career - along with a few other incidents.

Today none of the products does all that we want. The iPhone has a great browser, the Palm has loads of 3rd prty app, the Blackberry is a superb comunicator.

This is an age of disovery. Imagine how boring it will be when all the devices you buy will do everything you want.

I just love where we ahve come from and I love what I have today and I just cannot wait for what's coming down the Pike.

Pete

Pete, excellent post and points. Your comments gave me pause to think about all of the other considerations in making a do-everything device. That said, if BB (or any other manufacturer) is going to "tease" us with convergence capabilities, then they should also consider at least increasing the hardware specifications that enable us to take better advantage of these things. RIM is obviously migrating more and more to consumer-oriented multimedia capabilities (on much of their hardware) and an ever-increasing library of internal and 3rd party apps. It stands to reason then that they should increase the fundamental memory/storage capabilities of their devices commensurate with these "opportunities".

Nevertheless, I will be a RIM/BB user for many, many more years as long as they continue to produce excellent smartphones with such robust and outstanding communications capabilities.

LuvMyBB

Originally Posted by pete6

...if electronics were a tape measure 1 mile long then right now we have move one inch along it. ...

Or, as Carl Sagan said, Billions and Billions...

A couple more millimeters along the path, where will it be in another decade?

Originally Posted by wirelessforever

The answer to your question about why this is so is probably a cultural one. BlackBerry started out as a business tool principally to make phone calls and to get email. BlackBerrys were designed and built to handle those functions. As MP3s and email docs and cameras were introduced to cell phones, BB didn't keep up with the memory demands because it had never been their focus in years past.

I wonder why they locked that crap in there? If we could pick and choose, it would free up a bunch of wasted memory. Sample pics (@500K), tones, music (798k) + other things. Man, to think I'm scrambling over 1MB. LOL thought those days were over with technology and all. :D

Originally Posted by Stoner

Or, as Carl Sagan said, Billions and Billions...

A couple more millimeters along the path, where will it be in another decade?

When I read what I did, Carl Sagan was probably still in school. In my mind Carl got it right.

There are two movements, the millimetric and the giant leap. I love 'em both.

btw. I did not mention RFID wih all its credit transcation implications or medical monitoring and records but these will be there too. I'm only talking about technoogy and not the social or moral aspects. In other words, this is what we can do, not do we want to.