02-15-14 12:19 PM
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  1. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Answering with a swipe is a pain too. The device is after all, primarily a telephone. Why take those base functions away?
    Presumably it is a style choice to the ui, sliding to answer adds no time over pressing an on-screen button and eliminates the possibility of false input at the same time.

    As far as devices being primarily phones, is that still true for most people nowadays or has it dropped way down the list of priorities for people as seen by how little impact things like antennagate have had on smartphone sales?
    12-18-13 01:00 PM
  2. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Presumably it is a style choice to the ui, sliding to answer adds no time over pressing an on-screen button and eliminates the possibility of false input at the same time.

    As far as devices being primarily phones, is that still true for most people nowadays or has it dropped way down the list of priorities for people as seen by how little impact things like antennagate have had on smartphone sales?
    I've discontinued the land line in my household, so yes, I consider my mobile to be primarily a telephone.

    My complaint about the awkwardness to swipe to answer or ignore is because it's something that is not intuitive and has to be learned. My children can't make it work. Were I indisposed or incapacitated they would not be able to answer a call. Green means go. Red means stop. Universal concept.

    And oh, wearing gloves.

    www.907outdoors.com
    Last edited by Tim-ANC; 12-19-13 at 01:50 AM.
    12-19-13 01:35 AM
  3. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I've discontinued the land line in my household, so yes, I consider my mobile to be primarily a telephone.
    For most people that would still only make it their primary telephone and not actually primarily a telephone.

    My complaint about the awkwardness to swipe to answer or ignore is because it's something that is not intuitive and has to be learned. My children can't make it work. Were I indisposed or incapacitated they would not be able to answer a call. Green means go. Red means stop. Universal concept.

    And oh, wearing gloves.
    The same is true for other smartphones too, some stuff needs to be learnt and presumably they have far fewer people who cannot work out a swipe than would be accidentally answering a phone in their pocket which is vastly less likely with a swipe than a single press on the screen.

    There are gloves which work with touchscreens and there is also the point that they cannot just cater towards a niche, the sales they gained in locations where it was enough of an issue could be easily offset by increased mechanical failures. Just look at one of the biggest complaints from people that buy secondhand iphones, it is the home button that usually dies off first.
    12-19-13 09:14 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It seems to me that posters who argue that the trackpad and missing buttons should never return to the Q model are most likely not current owners of a Q model or a BBOS model. Those who argue for a return currently own or want to own a physical keyboard device.

    The trackpad and phone buttons are just an extension of the whole physical keyboard concept. Yes the trackpad and buttons and keyboard may fail at some point but potential owners know this and do not care because of the perceived advantages in having physical keys. Q 10 owners can make do without the missing elements of the the design but why should they? It seems likely that a Q10 sales would have greater had the phone had all of the physical key attributes as a 9900.

    There might be a time when the inclusion of a trackpad on a physical key phone would be redundant. Presumably that would be when the device design would be too long or when the screen is large enough to support an all touch approach.

    My view is that like the first iPhone , the screen needs to be at least 3.5 inches on the diagonal before an all touch approach becomes a feasible alternative.

    Because of the square screen design even if BlackBerry increases the width of a Q device to accommodate a larger screen the length of the phone would still be shorter than their Z models.

    The bottom line is if you are going to sell a physical keyboard phone go all the way. Make the biggest screen you can within a foot print that is no larger than a Z30 and if there is room, include the trackpad and buttons.. There will be room.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    12-19-13 10:42 AM
  5. Skeevecr's Avatar
    The trackpad and phone buttons are just an extension of the whole physical keyboard concept. Yes the trackpad and buttons and keyboard may fail at some point but potential owners know this and do not care because of the perceived advantages in having physical keys. Q 10 owners can make do without the missing elements of the the design but why should they? It seems likely that a Q10 sales would have greater had the phone had all of the physical key attributes as a 9900.
    My comments on the chance of mechanical failure have nothing to do with customers, they might be temporarily disrupted by problems to them, but it is BB that would eat those additional costs from hardware failures so it is no wonder that they have looked for ways to get away from such things. As far as sales increasing, there is very little basis to claim that including these buttons would have increased sales enough to cover the additional development costs of supporting another input method and the additional costs from extra returned hardware, the reality is that only a tiny vocal minority will have made their decision on this basis.
    12-20-13 05:17 AM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    My comments on the chance of mechanical failure have nothing to do with customers, they might be temporarily disrupted by problems to them, but it is BB that would eat those additional costs from hardware failures so it is no wonder that they have looked for ways to get away from such things. As far as sales increasing, there is very little basis to claim that including these buttons would have increased sales enough to cover the additional development costs of supporting another input method and the additional costs from extra returned hardware, the reality is that only a tiny vocal minority will have made their decision on this basis.
    Would you care to back your assertions of increased costs and significant failure rates with any data? Sure it is fair to say that any deviation from established form or function would incur costs, but we all must agree that for BlackBerry to succeed there's got to be change.

    I suggest that legitimate failure rates due to manufacturing / assembly defects in the slider mechanism would be fewer than 1 device in 100 (and I guarantee you any COO would balk at that number as being unsustainably high, so I conclude that the numbers are more like 1 device in 10000). Slider technology has been around since the first Matrix film, (you know, the cool one where everybody used spring loaded sliders) so there's nothing to reinvent here, just deal with the (relative to components like the screen, memory and chipset) insignificant "increased" costs of design, manufacturing and warranty support for slider technology.

    I going to go ahead and put a $7 per device cap amortised across a quarter-million device manufacturing run on any premium that a slider and hard buttons would incur, which would result in something like a $30 premium on the full MSRP unsubsidized device price: a number inconsequential to advocates of this device... and declare objections to this device on grounds of cost / warranty support a "straw man" that has no significant bearing on whether or not this device can or should be produced.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 12-20-13 at 05:05 PM.
    12-20-13 07:58 AM
  7. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    The Torch series is proof that a slider mechanism is reliable and durable. I still have my 9800. I've even tore it completely down to replaced a cracked digitizer screen. Still functions flawlessly.

    (Yes, I note the contradictory statement saying it's durable and then speaking of it being broke in the next breath. But that break occurred at a clumsy, semi-sober moment. Can't fault BlackBerry for that.)


    www.907outdoors.com
    RyanGermann likes this.
    12-20-13 09:48 AM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    My comments on the chance of mechanical failure have nothing to do with customers, they might be temporarily disrupted by problems to them, but it is BB that would eat those additional costs from hardware failures so it is no wonder that they have looked for ways to get away from such things. As far as sales increasing, there is very little basis to claim that including these buttons would have increased sales enough to cover the additional development costs of supporting another input method and the additional costs from extra returned hardware, the reality is that only a tiny vocal minority will have made their decision on this basis.
    Then why make a physical keyboard device at all ?

    It seems to me that anecdotal evidence suggests the Q10 is more reliable than a Z10 . Secondly, the Q10 sells at a premium to both Z models. I suspect that BB makes more money from the Q .

    You keep on referring to a vocal minority. You must mean owners of Z devices.

    As far as the slider is concerned. If they sell a slider maybe they can sell more BB10 devices overall. If I value a larger screen over a physical keyboard then there are many great phones that I can buy other than a Z.

    This is all water under the bridge but the saga of the missing buttons and trackpad is just indicative that their designers were and are out of touch with the needs of their legacy users.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 12-20-13 at 01:59 PM.
    RyanGermann likes this.
    12-20-13 01:14 PM
  9. texn884's Avatar
    I'd buy this phone in a heart beat. Build it BB
    01-12-14 10:01 AM
  10. Alex Keb's Avatar
    Wouldn't mind a slider if the mechanism is very sturdy.

    And 5 inch is too big.

    4.2inch is more than enough.

    Posted via CB10
    01-12-14 10:27 PM
  11. TinMan555's Avatar
    Brilliant. I am holding onto my 9810 in the hope they bring out a new high spec slider phone.
    There are so many things I love about my 9810, I cant find a good reason to change....yet.
    01-24-14 03:52 AM
  12. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Brilliant. I am holding onto my 9810 in the hope they bring out a new high spec slider phone.
    There are so many things I love about my 9810, I cant find a good reason to change....yet.
    I still use my 9800 for streaming music and other chores. Refreshing to use the track pad.

    www.907outdoors.com
    01-24-14 09:59 AM
  13. Alex Keb's Avatar
    Screen too big shouldn't be larger than 4.3 if you want a slider.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-14 10:44 AM
  14. khehl's Avatar
    They should just make a bluetooth slider case for Z30/Z10 for everyone who wants sliders since there is a need and they don't have the R&D like they use to and/or can't push out 4+ phones a year anymore. So, most likely they won't be making anymore sliders.

    **Z30 Bluetooth Keyboard Case IDEA** Show your support!!
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...e-idea-904574/
    02-15-14 12:19 PM
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