01-16-18 07:56 PM
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  1. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Blackberry is a company for niche markets.
    It is, how the company developed and what makes their brand.

    And there are approximately 20 million developers on earth.
    Still counting.

    Is that an interesting audience group?
    In my opinion, it is.

    Since that, I suggest the following device:

    Blackberry Passport with AMOLED for longer battery life and less eye drain.
    (Dark Theme, so the black pixels can shut off)

    An IDE comes preinstalled, which gets developed by Blackberry.
    OpenSSH and so on.

    DEV

    Development
    Device

    12-14-17 01:19 PM
  2. thurask's Avatar
    You'd think a phone for developers would include root access, which BlackBerry is vehemently against. Moreover, if you want BB to supply the IDE then I hope you like Eclipse.
    12-14-17 01:24 PM
  3. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Well, you cut the weak point in this plan: Developers like open source and yes, root access too.
    While I think that this is an issue, do I think furthermore that it gets outweighed by its benefits.

    Developers are still interested to code on their way home, in the bed (when the notebook is too heavy) and so on.
    We all can imagine a lot of different cases, where we would "check some lines of code" and develop quickly an idea.

    And so on and so on....
    Last edited by ShalokShalom; 12-14-17 at 01:33 PM. Reason: makes more sense
    12-14-17 01:28 PM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    Well, you cut the weak point in this plan: Developers like open source and yes, root access too.
    While I think, this is a serious issue, which can be solved in marketing, is this surely not a blocker.
    Developers are still interested, to code on their way home, in the bed (while the notebook is to heavy) and so on.
    We all can imagine a lot of different cases, where we would "check some lines of code" and develop quickly an idea.
    And so on and so on....
    You can already put Termux and SSH (or even Debian) on an Android phone without needing this, though. Slap it on a KEYone and you have a physical keyboard too.
    12-14-17 01:33 PM
  5. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Well, I think the form factor of the Passport is convenient for coding and
    I am in general curious, why Blackberry decides to push such many potential costumers aside,
    especially since there is practically no competition yet?
    12-14-17 01:53 PM
  6. stlabrat's Avatar
    how many of dev willing to go for a unique 1:1 ratio display with limited user base? (droid didn't allow 1:1 anyhow if I am not mistaken). If you thinking about BB10, you will need a good automatic screen sizing SDK rather than pixel counting... or any others.. unless you want to make it PP only,
    12-14-17 07:06 PM
  7. stlabrat's Avatar
    if you want to stuck 4:3 ratio screen on PP, it will not fit in the top suit pocket (like few K1 owner already find out - the K1 will slip out of their pocket when they bend over to pick up something from the ground... ).
    12-14-17 07:11 PM
  8. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Why should be the user base an issue?

    Linux has also a "limited user base". As said, 20 Million people, plus some casual consumers as the target audience group in a completely unsatisfied sections means high potential. In my humble opinion.

    You can forget BB10 for this device since BlackBerry has most likely a contract with Google, which says that they are forbidden to run any other OS as Android on their phones.

    In my personal opinion, a x86_64 like AMD`s Ryzen would make sense, once someone get the heat under control. I am aware that this means less battery life, while the AMOLED in combination with a dark theme and a downclocking can help here. The Ryzen series is meant to get clocked between 12 and 25 Watt and a colourful, fast shifting E-Ink display could help to improve the battery life onto 1-2 Weeks anyway.. So we could compile on our own devices. I mean desktop and server applications, without cross compiling. In that case, I would setup a modified version of KaOS. https://kaosx.us

    A more realistic approach is to use an ARM and compile remotely, idealy on a device which I can choose on my own.

    The IDE could be open source.

    And I think on such a display size. The graphic is taken from another proposal here in the forum:
    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...berry-1108718/

    Blackberry DEV-newpassportlikebb.png
    Last edited by ShalokShalom; 12-21-17 at 02:01 PM.
    12-16-17 03:20 AM
  9. stlabrat's Avatar
    user base matters a lot in consumer handset market: assume your dev need to eat/earn living, not just a bot. app is what difference between mobile OS vs PC OS. with limited user base, unique ratio of screen, how many dev (assume you are one of them) willing to invest time/money (time=money) for limited market? that is why I am waiting for 5G and web based UI- until the standard and infrastructure in place, doing it in LTE space using app is just not feasible... (may be you can give it try to write a PP app and see how many download to simulate 0.99 -1.99 each earning power for 6 month? - bench mark your daily living expanse? estimate how many app you would need to dev sustain a steak house dinner once a month plus glass of wine and tips to start? ).
    12-16-17 12:02 PM
  10. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    I am speaking about crowdfunding and open source.
    12-18-17 02:03 AM
  11. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Linux may have a limited user base, but it's also open source and allows root access. Android is open source, but without root access which bb is against, you'll never see an android powered bb developer device. When BB10 came out, there were some dev alpha devices but they're useless now since hardly anyone is developing for BB10 anymore.
    12-18-17 02:15 AM
  12. thurask's Avatar
    I am speaking about crowdfunding and open source.
    Crowdfunding hardware always works.
    anon(2313227) likes this.
    12-18-17 07:19 PM
  13. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Crowdfunding hardware always works.

    Well, crowdfunding hardware works, if the financing gets done so - while the actual plan and realisation is done by a company.

    Linux may have a limited user base, but it's also open source and allows root access. Android is open source, but without root access which bb is against, you'll never see an android powered bb developer device. When BB10 came out, there were some dev alpha devices but they're useless now since hardly anyone is developing for BB10 anymore.
    You write completly aside of what I write. I do not aim people who want a root access by default on their device.
    Also not on Linux users, who want their whole device from zero to the top open source.

    I aim developers.
    12-20-17 08:37 AM
  14. butterbean1983's Avatar
    You're missing the point of what I said entirely. We all agree that a developer device needs root access, no? Well if blackberry doesn't allow root access, then there will never be a blackberry branded developer device with android. If bb were willing to build a device with root access, then a developer device might be possible. But that is highly unlikely at best. That was my point, and it's very relevant to your proposal.
    12-20-17 08:53 AM
  15. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Also, you're the one who brought up Linux to begin with and comparing its user base to blackberry's, and now trying to remove that comparison from the equation, which isn't logical.
    12-20-17 08:54 AM
  16. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    We all agree that a developer device needs root access, no?
    No.

    I like to code.

    The vast majority of coders are using macOS.

    So these millions of developers have absolutely no problem with their Apple device.

    How rootable are they?

    Also, you're the one who brought up Linux to begin with and comparing its user base to blackberry's, and now trying to remove that comparison from the equation, which isn't logical.
    Linux gets commits from more people as any other software project I am aware of.
    The user base is even larger. It is the most used kernel and one of the most used software projects at all.

    I brought it up in order to show that a user base is always somehow "limited".
    Which project shows an unlimited number of potential users?
    Each and no one?

    So the key question is, if its "enough" to justify such a project in finanical terms.

    20 million developers plus a lot of casual users and of course the awesome BlackBerry fanbase is surely enough.
    Last edited by ShalokShalom; 12-21-17 at 02:28 PM.
    12-21-17 02:06 PM
  17. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Surely you can comprehend that many developers will want to write root apps? How are they supposed to test them on a phone without root?
    12-21-17 08:41 PM
  18. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    The vast majority of coders are using macOS.

    So these millions of developers have absolutely no problem with their Apple device.

    How rootable are they?
    https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT204012
    ShalokShalom likes this.
    12-22-17 06:54 AM
  19. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    With Termux can you achieve something similar for specific use cases.

    The thing is, that most of the developers seriously care about other qualities of macOS, like that its compatible with all the three major operating systems (did you once try to run macOS in virtual box?) and because they can avoid Windows as a platform without putting much effort into sometimes challenging Linux setups.

    To me, your meaning of a root access is a little bit questionable without the source code to important things like Cocoa and the prohibition to install another OS on my hardware and doing it the other way around.

    Anyway, you can see it as you want.

    I am happy with root access, while I can also live without one on such a device as the BlackBerry DEV.

    I like to develop code and I can do that on a device which comes without root access, besides solutions such as Termux.
    You can consider it as an additional security feature.
    Last edited by ShalokShalom; 12-22-17 at 07:31 AM.
    12-22-17 07:20 AM
  20. butterbean1983's Avatar
    The thing is, just because you don't feel root access is needed on a developer device doesn't mean you're right. Not every developer sees it the way you do. Seems pretty arrogant to decide a certain function isn't needed just because you don't need it. Why build a developer device that doesn't appeal to all developers (or at least the vast majority which includes developers of apps that require root)?
    12-22-17 07:27 AM
  21. butterbean1983's Avatar
    I would assume that at least part of the reason for a developer device is being able to test your apps or whatever code you write. What's the point of a developer device if you can't test apps that require root?
    12-22-17 07:30 AM
  22. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    The thing is, just because you don't feel root access is needed on a developer device doesn't mean you're right. Not every developer sees it the way you do.
    You missed the point of this thread.

    This is about my dream device and my concept about it.

    A large number of developers work on server side x86_64 code, web pages and applications who do not require root.
    Of course would it be nice to root the device, while I can life without one - especially since its meant as an addition to our current devices.

    As said, the potential is huge, since the BlackBerry Priv sold about 50.000 units and my proposal here targets millions of developers.

    Which devices are available for them?

    Some might be happy with a phablet, while I like to develop code on a Passport like device.

    Thanks a lot
    12-23-17 04:55 AM
  23. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Well this is a public forum and other people are allowed to add their opinions. Blackberry already has a miniscule market share and I think a developer device without root would appeal to even less people. I think you should just build your own.
    12-23-17 07:21 AM
  24. ShalokShalom's Avatar
    Well this is a public forum and other people are allowed to add their opinions
    It is not that you are not allowed to post here. I am simply stating, that this thread is about my dream device.
    Which this whole section is about.
    12-23-17 02:48 PM
  25. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Exactly why I told you to build your own.
    12-23-17 07:37 PM
26 12

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