12-14-14 01:12 PM
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  1. redlightblinking's Avatar
    What I'm trying to say is, if blackberry decided to focus on enterprise market, and stop selling to consumer market, then it's fine to use that reason (focusing on enterprise).

    But for now, Consumer market still exist in blackberry portfolio, and they still sell their handset on consumer market. They promoting pre-order on consumer market. They even put silly videoa advertisement about that brick game. But why use reason "focusing on enterprise"?
    Please define "the consumer market".

    They have ZERO TV ads. ZERO print ads. ZERO radio ads. In terms of the average consumer...THEY ARE INVISIBLE.

    Anyone or any company can be considered a consumer. Just because a company makes some industrial widget specialized for some sort of industry, doesn't mean they won't also sell those widgets to someone who wants one.

    The brickbreaker game isn't for appealing to the average sheeple consumer, it's for people who KNOW BLACKBERRYS and remember that game.

    You use the reason "focusing on enterprise" because THEY ARE. OBVIOUSLY. Thus their devices. Thus the specs. Thus their replacement of the 9900. Thus their complete lack of consumer marketing. But yea, if you want a phone you.....as a individual consumer....can still buy one.

    Responsibility to provide good ecosytem for their native app.
    WHAT? BlackBerry, nor Apple, nor Google, nor Microsoft "provides any ecosystem": THE DEVELOPERS DO. BlackBerry did what it could to address this by allowing an existing group of apps that developers WERE making....available on the BlackBerry.

    I'm complaining because I still use blackberry, I love the hub, I love the OS, I love the handset quality, I love the keypad, and I still want to use it for a long time. And I think, as consumer who buy their handset, have a right to express my hope and demand. But some people just keep saying "focusing on enterprises" as a reason. So annoyed with that reason, as if consumer market does not mean anything for blackberry.

    That's what I meant by responsibility and care
    But that IS THE REASON....whether you like it or not. Its ok to not like that reason, but don't go after people who explain it to you.

    OF COURSE the consumer market means something (assuming you mean 13 year olds, and grandmothers and every average joe).
    OF COURSE they'd love to have a place there.
    But due to a variety of historical reasons......they don't. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........

    Where do you think they might put their efforts....instead?

    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
    Xenolock likes this.
    12-14-14 10:28 AM
  2. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    He's basically saying that Blackberry and some Blackberry users (fanboys?) tend to use "focus on enterprise" as an excuse for disadvantages and gaps. In my opinion, he's right.
    12-14-14 10:37 AM
  3. whatsever's Avatar
    The Q10 is well build and the price is low and compare the specs you feel that you must pay the same. The Q10 is around 250 euro and the Classic will be around 400 euro.

    First of it's has a better battery and bigger screen makes the Phone 350 euro in my opinion. Thinking about the BlackBerry belt and you get all you wanted in a qwewrt mobile and it's new product , so 400 euro will not be a steal.


    There you have it.
    zmsox likes this.
    12-14-14 10:52 AM
  4. redlightblinking's Avatar
    He's basically saying that Blackberry and some Blackberry users (fanboys?) tend to use "focus on enterprise" as an excuse for disadvantages and gaps. In my opinion, he's right.
    Yes, he is right. Because that is the actual answer.
    12-14-14 10:59 AM
  5. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    @whatsever: That's your assumption. Others think of the un-lit trackpad, the non-user-replaceable battery, the plastic backside, the lower ppi screen and the 2012 SoC and don't think that the Classic is "all they ever wanted in a qwerty mobile"
    12-14-14 10:59 AM
  6. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    Please define "the consumer market".

    They have ZERO TV ads. ZERO print ads. ZERO radio ads. In terms of the average consumer...THEY ARE INVISIBLE.

    Anyone or any company can be considered a consumer. Just because a company makes some industrial widget specialized for some sort of industry, doesn't mean they won't also sell those widgets to someone who wants one.

    The brickbreaker game isn't for appealing to the average sheeple consumer, it's for people who KNOW BLACKBERRYS and remember that game.

    You use the reason "focusing on enterprise" because THEY ARE. OBVIOUSLY. Thus their devices. Thus the specs. Thus their replacement of the 9900. Thus their complete lack of consumer marketing. But yea, if you want a phone you.....as a individual consumer....can still buy one.



    WHAT? BlackBerry, nor Apple, nor Google, nor Microsoft "provides any ecosystem": THE DEVELOPERS DO. BlackBerry did what it could to address this by allowing an existing group of apps that developers WERE making....available on the BlackBerry.



    But that IS THE REASON....whether you like it or not. Its ok to not like that reason, but don't go after people who explain it to you.

    OF COURSE the consumer market means something (assuming you mean 13 year olds, and grandmothers and every average joe).
    OF COURSE they'd love to have a place there.
    But due to a variety of historical reasons......they don't. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo...........

    Where do you think they might put their efforts....instead?

    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
    Are you sure, and absolutely sure, that no single ads? Printed or online? In the whole world?

    I remember clearly in this year or last quater from last year, in my country, there's huge ads and big promotion, printed and online for z3 handset. And that's for enterprise?

    Recently, lots of bundling passport handset with some provider, and that's for enterprise market only?

    Consumer / retail market as if the opposite of the enterprise market, like me, i'm 30's, not a teenage, not a grandpa

    Have you asked yourself why developers choose not to write app for BlackBerry? Developers, market share, blackberry, all related. One must support others. And I don't think blackberry have put their focus on supporting the developer, instead they just simply "forced" their user to use android's app "if they really need it on their BlackBerry phone"

    We are talking in round and you will not agree while u look at these facts from your berrysheep's spectacles



    Posted via CB10
    12-14-14 11:15 AM
  7. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Are you sure, and absolutely sure, that no single ads? Printed or online? In the whole world?

    I remember clearly in this year or last quater from last year, in my country, there's huge ads and big promotion, printed and online for z3 handset. And that's for enterprise?
    I don't know what country you're in, but in one of the biggest smart phone markets on planet earth, they are not running ads.

    Recently, lots of bundling passport handset with some provider, and that's for enterprise market only?
    No, but what does that have to do with marketing?

    Consumer / retail market as if the opposite of the enterprise market, like me, i'm 30's, not a teenage, not a grandpa
    Ah, so you believe the "consumer" market is only people in their 30's. Then I guess we've found the flaw in your argument.

    Have you asked yourself why developers choose not to write app for BlackBerry? Developers, market share, blackberry, all related.
    That's quite obvious...very low sales of the devices. Nothing to do with your argument about focusing on enterprise. The app problem happened long before this focus.

    We are talking in round and you will not agree while u look at these facts from your berrysheep's spectacles



    Posted via CB10
    Translation: I can't answer the basic questions so I'll just claim that I have these mysterious "facts" that I can't cite then accuse you above being a sheep"
    End of Translation.
    Last edited by redlightblinking; 12-14-14 at 11:58 AM.
    12-14-14 11:42 AM
  8. insandouts's Avatar
    The Q10 was being sold on the blackberry website recently for $199, it shares almost all the same components of the Classic besides the outward appearance. So now that is it priced at $450 we are essentially paying $250 for;

    - slightly bigger sized phone
    - track pad and tool belt (prob costs $2-3 bucks wholesale to add to the phone)
    - slightly different material on the back
    - marketing which makes people stupid and helps them justify paying $250 additional dollars for a track pad. As much as I want to like the Classic I can't justify it at that price point and the fact the track pad doesn't light up and they call it a classic when the best selling phone and most legendary model is the Bold 9900 which has a track pad that lights up yet this one doesn't and it gets the Classic name justification? Bad call Blackberry.

    I'm hoping an updated model of this phone gets released and I will only get it when it drops into the $200-300 dollar range because getting it any higher is just plain stupid once you run a pro/con analysis of what the phone is compared to the Q10.
    Actually the Classic is cheaper, the Q10 was $549 at launch..the problem is that BB slashes prices after few months usually due to low sales..
    12-14-14 11:48 AM
  9. chrysaurora's Avatar
    I think confusion is:

    People are thinking Classic is successor to Q10. Which it is not.

    Classic is successor to Bold 9900 line
    Successor to Q10 is Passport or yet unreleased devices.

    Broadly, here is what it looks like:
    Full touch: Storm -> Z10 -> Z30
    Toolbelt Classic: Bold 9900 -> Classic
    QWERTY: Q10 -> Passport
    Slider: Torch -> still waiting


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by chrysaurora; 12-14-14 at 12:23 PM.
    12-14-14 12:09 PM
  10. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    I don't know what country you're in, but in one of the biggest smart phone markets on planet earth, they are not running ads.





    No, but what does that have to do with marketing?

    .



    Ah, so you believe the "consumer" market is only people in their 30's. Then I guess we've found the flaw in your argument.







    That's quite obvious...very low sales of the devices. Nothing to do with your argument about focusing on enterprise. The app problem happened long before this focus.









    Translation: I can't answer the basic questions so I'll just claim that I have these mysterious "facts" that I can't cite then accuse you above being a sheep"
    End of Translation.

    Then your comment about no ads at all is not true, and I believe Indonesia is one of 5 top rank smartphone market



    That answer your question for "focus on marketing" excuse and clearly they put ads in retail market, not enterprise only

    Nop, i'm replying your assumption about consumer market (13 yo kids and grandma? )


    Have you not get what I meant, people complaining about lacking native app, some people just simply give reason "BlackBerry is focusing on enterprise which do not use many kiddie apps". That's what we are talking about, aren't we?

    The app problem happened long before this focus? Exactly! Even this focus thing not yet happened, where's BlackBerry support to increase the app world? And now the BlackBerry appworld is practically dead, and the excuse is "focusing on enterprise"? Come on....


    Fact :
    BlackBerry do not have much useful and trending native app
    BlackBerry provide nice keyboard for chatting and blogging but no native app can be used
    BlackBerry has no afford to bring up the app ecosystem
    BlackBerry keep saying they will focusing in enterprise market, but on the other hand they keep selling their new handset to retail, not only enterprise market
    Some berrysheep just keep giving excuse no need the app, browser is enough
    Some berrysheep just keep telling, they do not need many trending apps since they are business person who doesn't need "kiddies" app





    Posted via CB10
    12-14-14 12:18 PM
  11. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Actually the Classic is cheaper, the Q10 was $549 at launch
    Nobody cares about that since the launch price is gone and even Blackberry wouldn't try to sell the Classic for $549 because that would be even more ridiculous than the hefty $449 price tag.

    IPeople are thinking Classic is successor to Q10. Which it is not.
    a) That is your point of view not the general truth.
    b) What about Q10 users who don't want a bulky device like the Passport? Aren't they allowed to think about buying a Classic and comparing specs because you declared it as not being the successor? The confusion is that Blackberry uses outdated hardware (that one would expect them to use in a Curve successor) and not in users mind.
    Last edited by Maxxxpower; 12-14-14 at 12:37 PM.
    12-14-14 12:25 PM
  12. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Then your comment about no ads at all is not true, and I believe Indonesia is one of 5 top rank smartphone market
    How is it not true? In the country where I am....the number one smartphone market on the planet....there are no ads.

    That answer your question for "focus on marketing" excuse and clearly they put ads in retail market, not enterprise only
    Not in the US, they don't.


    Nop, i'm replying your assumption about consumer market (13 yo kids and grandma? )
    And the average joe. You forgot that critical part.


    Have you not get what I meant, people complaining about lacking native app, some people just simply give reason "BlackBerry is focusing on enterprise which do not use many kiddie apps". That's what we are talking about, aren't we?
    Yes, I think so. And.......?

    The app problem happened long before this focus? Exactly!

    So then we agree. You've just arguing with yourself for me.

    Even this focus thing not yet happened, where's BlackBerry support to increase the app world?

    Huh? The only thing that "supports" app world is more sales of devices that make it more appealing for devs to sell more apps. Basic economics. BlackBerry's support to consumers who want apps that already exist was to offer Android.

    And now the BlackBerry appworld is practically dead, and the excuse is "focusing on enterprise"? Come on....
    No, you are conflating two different things. Appworld is dead because devs won't make apps for a phone with low possible app sales.

    Fact:
    BlackBerry do not have much useful and trending native app
    Nothing to do with enterprise focus. Devs make apps...not BlackBerry.
    BlackBerry provide nice keyboard for chatting and blogging but no native app can be used
    Devs make apps, not BlackBerry.
    BlackBerry has no afford to bring up the app ecosystem
    Try again in English...I have no idea what you're saying.
    BlackBerry keep saying they will focusing in enterprise market, but on the other hand they keep selling their new handset to retail, not only enterprise market
    You can FOCUS on something but still do something else too. Otherwise they would have used the world "EXCLUSIVELY"
    Clearly, English is not your strong suit.
    Some berrysheep just keep giving excuse no need the app, browser is enough.
    Some berrysheep just keep telling, they do not need many trending apps since they are business person who doesn't need "kiddies" app
    Some say that, yes. So what? What does this have to do with BlackBerry's focus on enterprise? You are all over the map here.
    12-14-14 12:33 PM
  13. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    The Q10 was being sold on the blackberry website recently for $199, it shares almost all the same components of the Classic besides the outward appearance. So now that is it priced at $450 we are essentially paying $250 for;

    - slightly bigger sized phone
    - track pad and tool belt (prob costs $2-3 bucks wholesale to add to the phone)
    - slightly different material on the back
    - marketing which makes people stupid and helps them justify paying $250 additional dollars for a track pad. As much as I want to like the Classic I can't justify it at that price point and the fact the track pad doesn't light up and they call it a classic when the best selling phone and most legendary model is the Bold 9900 which has a track pad that lights up yet this one doesn't and it gets the Classic name justification? Bad call Blackberry.

    I'm hoping an updated model of this phone gets released and I will only get it when it drops into the $200-300 dollar range because getting it any higher is just plain stupid once you run a pro/con analysis of what the phone is compared to the Q10.
    Yes..but the bigger screen, battery, trackpad and call buttons are worth it. Your paying for 2years of advancement q10 or a 3 for an updated bold.. Saying the q10 is 200 bucks for a out of production sell off phone is just plan wrong.
    12-14-14 12:48 PM
  14. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    How is it not true? In the country where I am....the number one smartphone market on the planet....there are no ads.



    Not in the US, they don't.



    And the average joe. You forgot that critical part.



    Yes, I think so. And.......?




    So then we agree. You've just arguing with yourself for me.




    Huh? The only thing that "supports" app world is more sales of devices that make it more appealing for devs to sell more apps. Basic economics. BlackBerry's support to consumers who want apps that already exist was to offer Android.



    No, you are conflating two different things. Appworld is dead because devs won't make apps for a phone with low possible app sales.


    Nothing to do with enterprise focus. Devs make apps...not BlackBerry.

    Devs make apps, not BlackBerry.

    Try again in English...I have no idea what you're saying.

    You can FOCUS on something but still do something else too. Otherwise they would have used the world "EXCLUSIVELY"
    Clearly, English is not your strong suit.
    Some say that, yes. So what? What does this have to do with BlackBerry's focus on enterprise? You are all over the map here.
    Well, if you imply ads as the old fashioned ads in papers, banner or else, then you're right. As I know, pre order on website, articles online, even in crackberry is an advertisement.

    Maybe in usa as you said no ads "at all" but we're speaking BlackBerry as worldwide handset and os provider

    I'm not arguing with myself, it's you who jump in my comment and start arguing about my rejection for "enterprise focus" reason

    Handset sales, developer, app, they're all connected. If the sales low, developer will not have any intention to write apps, BlackBerry must support with their own way, pay the developer, give incentives, etc, and they're the expert who should know better.
    BlackBerry support us to use android app? Yeah, such a lazy and shortcut support, and the result? If you satisfied with the performance, I have nothing to say

    "Nothing to do with enterprise focus. Devs make apps...not BlackBerry" ----- yah, tell that to some people who use "enterprise focus" as excuse for lack app complaint not me for sure


    "You can FOCUS on something but still do something else too. Otherwise they would have used the world "EXCLUSIVELY" ------- then BlackBerry should fulfilled their users demand of native app, not excuse with "enterprise focus" you're talking in a circle

    "English is not your strong suit." ---- i'm learning


    "Some say that, yes. So what? What does this have to do with BlackBerry's focus on enterprise? You are all over the map here" -----. Again, tell that to some people who said that, not me. And you yourself said that lame excuse of enterprise focus is the correct, or should I copy paste your earlier comment?





    Posted via CB10
    12-14-14 12:52 PM
  15. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    Double post
    12-14-14 12:52 PM
  16. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Well, if you imply ads as the old fashioned ads in papers, banner or else, then you're right. As I know, pre order on website, articles online, even in crackberry is an advertisement.
    Wrong. Pre-order is just that. It's not an ad. Articles are not ads. They are articles. CrackBerry is not an ad, it's a web site. All of those things are for people who already know of or are already intersting in BB.

    Old fashioned ads.....are ads. Something someone pays for to get their message out in media....like.......TV. The number one place phones makers go to reach their audience.




    Maybe in usa as you said no ads "at all" but we're speaking BlackBerry as worldwide handset and os provider
    No, you were doing that. I was speaking from the point of view of where I....and most smart phone purchases........live.


    I'm not arguing with myself, it's you who jump in my comment and start arguing about my rejection for "enterprise focus" reason
    But you contradicted your own statement, so, yea, you were arguing with yourself.


    Handset sales, developer, app, they're all connected. If the sales low, developer will not have any intention to write apps, BlackBerry must support with their own way, pay the developer, give incentives, etc, and they're the expert who should know better.
    They tried that. How much money do you think BB has sitting around to pay each and everyone one of the MILLIONS of apps just to be re-written for BB? Your logic is flawed and out of touch with financial reality.


    BlackBerry support us to use android app? Yeah, such a lazy and shortcut support, and the result? If you satisfied with the performance, I have nothing to say
    Lazy? Compared to what? Nobody else does this. Yes, I am satisifed that now I can run apps that before I couldn't. That was the entire mission of doing that. Mission accomplished.


    "Nothing to do with enterprise focus. Devs make apps...not BlackBerry" ----- yah, tell that to some people who use "enterprise focus" as excuse for lack app complaint not me for sure
    Makes no sense. What are you trying to say here?


    "You can FOCUS on something but still do something else too. Otherwise they would have used the world "EXCLUSIVELY" ------- then BlackBerry should fulfilled their users demand of native app, not excuse with "enterprise focus" you're talking in a circle
    Once again, BB doesn't make apps. Devs do. Blame them. You're the one talking in circles because you keep making the same mis-informed claims over and over.


    "Some say that, yes. So what? What does this have to do with BlackBerry's focus on enterprise? You are all over the map here" -----. Again, tell that to some people who said that, not me.
    Posted via CB10

    Why do I tell that to them....? You're the one talking about enterprise.


    And you yourself said that lame excuse of enterprise focus is the correct, or should I copy paste your earlier comment?
    Posted via CB10
    Because it IS correct.

    Learn to speak English before you write more. This is a waste of time.
    12-14-14 01:08 PM
  17. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Your paying for 2years of advancement q10 or a 3 for an updated bold..
    I can't see 2 years of advancement in CPU/GPU specs. Remember that even the Q10 was slightly outdated when it arrived. In fact the Classic has no hardware that wasn't available in 2012.

    Saying the q10 is 200 bucks for a out of production sell off phone is just plan wrong.
    Why? Q10s are available from around $200-$240 on amazon.com or ebay.com
    12-14-14 01:08 PM
  18. howarmat's Avatar
    enough arguing....this is worse that BB vs android vs iOS....no one ever wins!
    ponpiri likes this.
    12-14-14 01:12 PM
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