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  1. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    sounds like a self protecting arguement to me. Your not clever if you can't appreciate the design decisions? Well guess I'm not clever then. Because I want a phone that not only doesn't lag today, I dont' want it to lag tomorrow. But that's just me
    Do you expect emails and text messages to come in 3D in 2015?

    I'm sorry friend but I don't feel that this is the phone for you. This is an enterprise product, and on the enterprise world, people want to talk about making money, not brag about specs with their colleagues, they rather talk about yachts.

    So having great battery life for that important business call is more important than having more pixels that won't improve your workflow any better.

    Why not get an android? Android will ALWAYS get you better specs for way less money. You can get octa-core androids for less than 300$
    11-23-14 10:34 AM
  2. polytan02's Avatar
    To the OP: I owned a Z10 and now a Z30. I don't even know the speed of my processor !

    BB10 just works really well!

    Posted via CB10
    BDLIVE4463 and Bluenoser63 like this.
    11-23-14 10:48 AM
  3. bb8900edit's Avatar

    Do you expect emails and text messages to come in 3D in 2015?

    I'm sorry friend but I don't feel that this is the phone for you. This is an enterprise product, and on the enterprise world, people want to talk about making money, not brag about specs with their colleagues, they rather talk about yachts.

    So having great battery life for that important business call is more important than having more pixels that won't improve your workflow any better.

    Why not get an android? Android will ALWAYS get you better specs for way less money. You can get octa-core androids for less than 300$
    You sir, you're correct. I have a client who has a Q10 and I asked him yesterday if he knew what processor his phone used and he laughed and said who cares. This client is the executive producer for 3 of the biggest tv shows in my country. He loves his Q10 because when not in office, it's his office. Asked if it has ever lagged and he said no. I showed him the videos of the classic and a few pictures and told him he could pre-order it. I also told him that it has the same specs as the Q10 and you know what he said? Who cares, will it bang out my emails and I said yes and he said that he's going home to pre-order one.

    I shared this story to say that this is the target market for the Classic, it's for those who want to get things done, not worry about the latest specs.

    Posted via CB10
    11-23-14 10:50 AM
  4. ksantor's Avatar
    It is really what you need from the device is important, not the GHz figures.

    I'm using my Z10 for almost 2 years now. During this time, I tried iOS, then I tried Android. In the end I came back to my Z10. Now I have only one (!) page with apps, with only 5 of them not stock.

    I understood, that everything I need from the device, is basic communication - email, calls, messengers, music and good battery life. It looks like Classic will be the device just for that. So it really doesn't matter if it will have 1.5 or 1.7 or whatever CPU. And I think BlackBerry was making the Classic with exactly this in mind.



    Posted via CB10
    Evindzer and bb8900edit like this.
    11-23-14 10:58 AM
  5. aha's Avatar
    It is really what you need from the device is important, not the GHz figures.

    I'm using my Z10 for almost 2 years now. During this time, I tried iOS, then I tried Android. In the end I came back to my Z10. Now I have only one (!) page with apps, with only 5 of them not stock.

    I understood, that everything I need from the device, is basic communication - email, calls, messengers, music and good battery life. It looks like Classic will be the device just for that. So it really doesn't matter if it will have 1.5 or 1.7 or whatever CPU. And I think BlackBerry was making the Classic with exactly this in mind.



    Posted via CB10
    What's wrong with your Z10?

    Posted via CB10 with PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.1151
    11-23-14 11:33 AM
  6. dale-c's Avatar
    Slagman, if you could not have predicted BB10 and the BlackBerry Passport in 2009, then there is no way it could have ever been produced.


    As for performance, I am running the latest 10.3.1 leak on my z10, and guess what?
    Andriod app performance isn't as great as I would like. So, I am being told that I should shell out $450 plus tax for a device that already has performance drawbacks?

    If all apps were native, this would not be an issue, but that us simply not the case.

    I have no problem with BlackBerry producing a classic with the same specs as a q10. It just needs to be priced accordingly and they should also make an option to order one with higher specs for a higher price.

    Look, none of us are asking for high end specs. We know that the Passport is the flag ship phone.

    What we want are mid-grade specs for a mid grade price.

    Q10 specs, in 2015 are entry level specs, not mid-grade.
    $450 is a midgrade price, not entry level.

    Since I can get a z30 for $225, I am considering getting that and waiting until the price comes down on the Classic.

    Posted via CB10
    11-23-14 01:09 PM
  7. Ecm's Avatar
    Closed for review.
    11-23-14 01:14 PM
  8. Ecm's Avatar
    [INFO]
    Thread re-opened. However, if the bickering and personal comments continue, it may have to close permanently.

    Remember that the Classic specs have not yet been released! So let a civil discussion continue -- with that in mind.[/INFO]
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 01:43 PM
  9. hnguyen's Avatar
    Re using the same components as the z10 or q10 would save a lot of cost. And Chen is doing what he can to make sure the company makes a profit sooner than later.

    For me, I will be buying it even if the specs are similar to the q10 because the toolbelt more important to me than big specs.

    But I do wish the specs would be better than the q10. It would help speed up some of the android apps that I use. And the universal search could be quicker.

    Posted via CB10
    11-23-14 02:50 PM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    ITT: People that don't grasp the concept of future proofing.
    You can't feature proof something that has a shelf life of about two to three years for people who would actually care about specs. Electronics is very hard to future proof. If next month, a new spec of Wifi is released or 5G is released, the highest spec Apple, Android and Blackberry will all be in the same boat.
    11-23-14 02:57 PM
  11. dale-c's Avatar
    Re using the same components as the z10 or q10 would save a lot of cost. And Chen is doing what he can to make sure the company makes a profit sooner than later.

    For me, I will be buying it even if the specs are similar to the q10 because the toolbelt more important to me than big specs.

    But I do wish the specs would be better than the q10. It would help speed up some of the android apps that I use. And the universal search could be quicker.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, I probably will buy it even with q10 specs. Also because of the fact that the form factor is important to me.

    Let's just hope the internal specs are at least equal to a z30 and we can put this to rest.

    I will add, that I hope BlackBerry is listening. Too long they put out subpar specs and it nearly killed them.
    With the z10 and the Passport they finally started releasing flagship products that were at least on par with high end products.


    Posted via CB10
    11-23-14 03:06 PM
  12. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    ok. this is going to end up a TLDR - the quick version - you think the demands on your phone are going to remain constant?

    Well I hope not, as I was hoping for better apps and better OS updates to come along, not all of which will run faster on the same hardware. Optimization isn't the only thing that can happen in an update, and I'd say its the exception rather than the rule

    Long version, point by point... Ok, I'm up for that this round, then I will leave the rest to those with a penchant for pendantry to debate further.

    What makes you think it can "just scrape by"? Do other BB10 phones just "scrape by"?
    I think it can just scrape by because I think the q10 had bad lag - hub used to freeze a lot, and android apks need a lot of cpu cycles, most noticeable when first starting up. Whilst I am no fan of android apps if a cascades app exists I can use instead, that is the direction blackberry are taking and a reality most of us will have to live with.


    Funny, that's what people who buy Iphones say too....you know the Iphone....the phone with medium specs?
    I will take your word for it. I don't think I mentioned the iPhone, so Iphone owners can say what they want, I'm not one of them as I'm not a fan of that phone. We are discussing BlackBerry phones here last time I checked. Lets stay on subject .


    Optimize their operations? I think you mean "keep the cost down to sell more phones".
    No I don't meant that. Yes, that's one thing they can do if they optimize their operation. Another thing they can do is extend their margin. Since I don't know which, if any of those things they will do I will stick to my wording.




    What if they just SAID that it has (insert some random spec number here) and gave you a phone that was awesome and did everything you needed and performed adequately? Would you think you got a fair phone for a fair price if you DIDN'T EVEN KNOW what the actual specs were....just how well it worked? Heck...they could just lie to you if it makes you feel better.
    Anyone who takes the time to investigate their potential purchase can use all the resources available to them on the web, including reviews, and strip downs. The innards can't be hidden, so what your saying is ridiculous. Doubly so because you forget - I'm of the opinion it wasn't fast enough as it was. I know your point. You think people pay attention to meaningless bench marks just to play top trumps. Perhaps you can at least recognise the possibility that IF someone felt that previous bb10 phones (e.g Q10) suffered slowdown, they would want something that not only ran faster from day one, but had enough extra capability to be a viable phone to accommodate future growth of that platform.


    No one "thinks" anything. They know because it's already been happening for a couple years now. Unless the OS changed....why do the specs need to?
    There we totally disagree. I KNOW that my q10 suffered lag in the hub and was slow on many android apps. The z30, a faster cpu improved this dramatically. The Passport is a whole world better. So when you say 'lag at what' - specifically, I say switching between sections on the hub and initialising android applications.





    Head room for 24 month contracts? Do the specs get lower over time?
    Sorry that's really a gross oversimplification. Firstly, OS updates don't always improve the performance. Remember, anything from 10.3.1 onwards was designed in a world that faster phones that the classic existed in. Hence, it is conceivable that it features will be added that will take advantage of this extra power. In fact in most software lifecycles, this is the norm.

    Same is true of applications - particularly now that BlackBerries strategic direction is for consumers to become more reliant on android apps. As a platform gets more mature, developers push the envelope of what they can do with the hardware. Hence apps do more, but require more power.

    If you want to stay on the same OS level you are on and only run the same versions of all your apps, you may have a chance of keeping your day one performance. In reality, the constant fragmentation of your phones memory and a whole host of other factors slowly degrades the performance anyway.

    If you can't understand that a platform will grow in 24 months, and that a phone that has enough capacity to still run comfortably as that happens is desirable then let me put it to you like this. You have 9 months left on your contract. slowly over time, as a consequence of os updates and your favourite apps updating, and newer apps with ever increasing demands on your phone coming along, your phones performance degrades. Your hardware isn't any slower, more is being asked of it. Now think about those 9 months you have left on a phone that has a frustrating level of lag. The phone with the extra headroom I mentioned now looks a more attractive proposition in any sane persons mind I'd say.
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 03:12 PM
  13. offyoutoddle's Avatar

    Do you expect emails and text messages to come in 3D in 2015?

    I'm sorry friend but I don't feel that this is the phone for you. This is an enterprise product, and on the enterprise world, people want to talk about making money, not brag about specs with their colleagues, they rather talk about yachts.

    So having great battery life for that important business call is more important than having more pixels that won't improve your workflow any better.

    Why not get an android? Android will ALWAYS get you better specs for way less money. You can get octa-core androids for less than 300$
    With respect, that is a pretty condescending little diatribe there, since you are wrongly assuming why I want a phone with more power. Why do you and so many others here assume people would want the power only to brag about specs with colleagues? Do you think an enterprise phone only needs send emails and texts?

    Why don't you have a think about what that power can do for enterprise apps. I'm an IT proffessional, not some kid who wants to snap 'selfies' and play games. Speaking from my own experience in IT, what will improve your workflow is having the apps you need on your phone, and that is what I believe a decent spec is needed for. Half of Blackberries presentation on the Passport was dedicated to Enterprise apps. If you only need a weak spec, then BlackBerry could have continued to sell BBOS phones, which they clearly couldn't.

    You are right in only one thing that you have said - the Classic isn't the phone for me, which I beleive I said at the start of this thread! I have chosen my phone quite carefully, (the Passport) so believe me I don't want an android phone, nor do I want a phone that is only just capable of sending texts and emails. I chose the passport because it has the power and the features to be a competitive product, both for the Enterprise world, which I am part of day to day, and as a consumer device. Because outside of 9 to 5, that is of interest to me also.

    Consumer shouldn't be considered a dirty word btw - BlackBerry haven't totally turned their back on the consumer, they just aren't investing in it as their primary focus, and have deferred it to a third party. If they had totally turned agains the consumer, we wouldn't have the amazon store arrangement in place.
    mfurman and Christoph7K like this.
    11-23-14 03:35 PM
  14. Evindzer's Avatar
    slagman5 & redlightblinking, please continue to contribute your thoughts, I love reading your posts!
    That been said, I won't buy the Classic because I want the PP.
    11-23-14 03:56 PM
  15. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    I'd buy it with 900MHz, as long is it didn't lag with heavy and loaded use.
    11-23-14 04:17 PM
  16. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    With respect, that is a pretty condescending little diatribe there, since you are wrongly assuming why I want a phone with more power. Why do you and so many others here assume people would want the power only to brag about specs with colleagues? Do you think an enterprise phone only needs send emails and texts?

    Why don't you have a think about what that power can do for enterprise apps. I'm an IT proffessional, not some kid who wants to snap 'selfies' and play games. Speaking from my own experience in IT, what will improve your workflow is having the apps you need on your phone, and that is what I believe a decent spec is needed for. Half of Blackberries presentation on the Passport was dedicated to Enterprise apps. If you only need a weak spec, then BlackBerry could have continued to sell BBOS phones, which they clearly couldn't.

    You are right in only one thing that you have said - the Classic isn't the phone for me, which I beleive I said at the start of this thread! I have chosen my phone quite carefully, (the Passport) so believe me I don't want an android phone, nor do I want a phone that is only just capable of sending texts and emails. I chose the passport because it has the power and the features to be a competitive product, both for the Enterprise world, which I am part of day to day, and as a consumer device. Because outside of 9 to 5, that is of interest to me also.

    Consumer shouldn't be considered a dirty word btw - BlackBerry haven't totally turned their back on the consumer, they just aren't investing in it as their primary focus, and have deferred it to a third party. If they had totally turned agains the consumer, we wouldn't have the amazon store arrangement in place.
    I assume that people want to brag about the specs, because it's what happens since the Android vs iOS war ever existed. Android did catch up a lot, but iOS always have been the smoothest and quickest OS, iOS lags less, and used to flow through apps quicker than Android... Despite that, i've always heard Android users saying that iphones was crap because it's expensive and it has bad specs, you can get a cheaper android with much better specs... Samsung even made an advertising campaign with BS like that (this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-cont...-apple-ad.jpeg)

    This only leads to know that people care about specs, not speed.

    The fact is that you see A LOT more threads like this complaining about the "lack of specs", than you see threads about BB10 lagging or being slower, and that alone tell us a lot.

    A person that values specs and "show off", isn't going to buy a 3.5inch screen in 2015.

    Sure, an enterprise phone isn't only to send texts and emails, but those would be the priority, so is battery life wich is improved with lower specs. BB10 runs great with the S4, very smooth, look at the Z30 that does pretty much everything that other phones do, and only has the Snapdragon S4.

    The problem with the classic aren't the Specs, the problem is the price. Since the phone has lower specs, it should cost 350-400$ Max. at almost 500$ it should have better specs, but as I said, I think it should be the other way around, medium specs, and much lower price.
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 04:18 PM
  17. ep1's Avatar
    isn't spec,ram, processor tied to gaming some what anyway. I don't the classic is falling into that category.
    Last edited by ep1; 11-24-14 at 04:06 PM.
    11-23-14 04:53 PM
  18. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    I assume that people want to brag about the specs, because it's what happens since the Android vs iOS war ever existed.
    I'm afraid that is certainly not the case for me, and clearly a lot of others who have chipped in here, clear proof that it is not that valid an assumption. Talk you may have heard from various iphone vs android arguments I'd personally disregard as background noise for the most part, since such arguments bear little substance upon examination.

    So what is different about my argument? Where is my substance? A valid question. I'd argue that I believe based on my experience as an IT worker, enterprise applications facilitate administration of products, improving my workflow. For example telnet, ssh rdp and other such client applications are of great importance.

    You go on to talk about email and text being the priority. I don't agree. They are important, at least mail is, but not to the exclusion of all else. The days of a business phone only being used by managers who have little to do but look at emails all day are gone. A working document suite at the very least requires a reasonable specification to be able to read and edit those email attachments that are spreadsheet and presentation documentation for example, particularly the larger and more complicated the content of those files get. Just try it with an old Bold 9900 on the kind of files I get mailed on a regular basis and you will find it either doesn't display very readably, or requires an incredible level of patience.


    Sure, an enterprise phone isn't only to send texts and emails, but those would be the priority, so is battery life wich is improved with lower specs. BB10 runs great with the S4, very smooth, look at the Z30 that does pretty much everything that other phones do, and only has the Snapdragon S4.

    The problem with the classic aren't the Specs, the problem is the price. Since the phone has lower specs, it should cost 350-400$ Max. at almost 500$ it should have better specs, but as I said, I think it should be the other way around, medium specs, and much lower price.
    Battery life is NOT always improved with lower specs . We don't know what the Classic chip is, but from the rumoured spec of 1.5, lets say for arguments sake it was an older s4, because people, including yourself, say that bb10 runs great on that (that is not my experience from the performance of my old q10, but certainly i agree in the z30 it was a smooth experience) . The s4 uses MORE power than a more modern 800 snapdragon, even though it is slower. Much of the improvements in modern CPUs has been in efficiency and the tight coupling of the rest of the components such as the GPU as much as anything else. So business users wanting better battery life would be best served by Blackberry giving them the better technology inside that their money gets them with other phone manufacturers.

    So we come to your point about cost, where you appear to be coming back to what I have been saying from the start. Here I agree totally, as I have said before, making this as good a place as any for me to exit this discussion - for its spec the Classic is overpriced. That is the only reason why it is not the phone for me.
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 05:15 PM
  19. redlightblinking's Avatar
    - you think the demands on your phone are going to remain constant?
    Of course not. What does that have to do with anything? It's ASSUMED that eventually your phone will be a little slow for some future....yet to be released OS or app or whatever. But, to say that the current OS and current apps are suffering because you didn't put in more than has already been proven to work for 2 years seems odd to me.


    I think it can just scrape by because I think the q10 had bad lag - hub used to freeze a lot,
    You have a bad phone. Call BlackBerry for a replacement.

    and android apks need a lot of cpu cycles, most noticeable when first starting up.
    Android apps must run inside the runtime....which must start FIRST. It's not an Android phone, so you can't expect perfection in the Android world.

    I will take your word for it. I don't think I mentioned the iPhone, so Iphone owners can say what they want, I'm not one of them as I'm not a fan of that phone. We are discussing BlackBerry phones here last time I checked. Lets stay on subject .
    Classic evasion technique. The subject is SPECS OF A PHONE. Iphone is a fine example of what "people want" with lower specs. Specs are meaningless without context.

    Anyone who takes the time to investigate their potential purchase can use all the resources available to them on the web, including reviews, and strip downs. The innards can't be hidden, so what your saying is ridiculous..
    I guess humor isn't in your programming. Obviously they can't lie about the specs, I was asking you a hypothetical question that challenges your
    entire assertion that knowing the specs is important to your decision.


    There we totally disagree. I KNOW that my q10 suffered lag in the hub and was slow on many android apps. The z30, a faster cpu improved this dramatically. The Passport is a whole world better. So when you say 'lag at what' - specifically, I say switching between sections on the hub and initialising android applications.






    Sorry that's really a gross oversimplification. Firstly, OS updates don't always improve the performance. Remember, anything from 10.3.1 onwards was designed in a world that faster phones that the classic existed in. Hence, it is conceivable that it features will be added that will take advantage of this extra power. In fact in most software lifecycles, this is the norm.

    Same is true of applications - particularly now that BlackBerries strategic direction is for consumers to become more reliant on android apps. As a platform gets more mature, developers push the envelope of what they can do with the hardware. Hence apps do more, but require more power.

    If you want to stay on the same OS level you are on and only run the same versions of all your apps, you may have a chance of keeping your day one performance. In reality, the constant fragmentation of your phones memory and a whole host of other factors slowly degrades the performance anyway.

    If you can't understand that a platform will grow in 24 months, and that a phone that has enough capacity to still run comfortably as that happens is desirable then let me put it to you l
    But........it's still a decent phone (other than the defect of the hub that you should get a replacement phone for) that also runs Android apps in it's own runtime...that....yes.....takes a few more seconds to launch and sometimes isn't as perfectly smooth as if it was on an actual android device. BUT....for those who are coming from a 9900....I seriously doubt that is a large concern. Again, consider what market this phone is aimed at.

    Sorry that's really a gross oversimplification.
    I didn't make any simplifications....I asked you the question.."do the specs get lower over time?" as a response to your statement that the phone needs "headroom for a 24 month contract"....as if in 24 months the specs will degrade.

    Firstly, OS updates don't always improve the performance. Remember, anything from 10.3.1 onwards was designed in a world that faster phones that the classic existed in. Hence, it is conceivable that it features will be added that will take advantage of this extra power. In fact in most software lifecycles, this is the norm.

    Same is true of applications - particularly now that BlackBerries strategic direction is for consumers to become more reliant on android apps. As a platform gets more mature, developers push the envelope of what they can do with the hardware. Hence apps do more, but require more power.

    If you want to stay on the same OS level you are on and only run the same versions of all your apps, you may have a chance of keeping your day one performance. In reality, the constant fragmentation of your phones memory and a whole host of other factors slowly degrades the performance anyway.
    Yep...I't is "conceivable" (aka "possible") that features will be added that take advantage of extra power. You can say this about ANY PHONE running ANY SPECS on ANY OS. No matter what you start with....IT IS CONCEIVABLE that you might not have enough at some time in the future.

    BlackBerry's is offering up Android apps as an option, but I don't think it's their "strategic direction" for consumers to be more reliant on them. They are offered as a way to sell more phones, which interests native devs to get on the stick. I'm pretty sure BB still wants native apps.

    When you say the same apps and OS "may have a chance of keeping your day one performance" you actually mean "you WILL have day one performance" and if for some reason you don't....a nice little wipe will do the trick. And...again....this is a factor for ANY PHONE that starts with ANY specs.



    If you can't understand that a platform will grow in 24 months, and that a phone that has enough capacity to still run comfortably as that happens is desirable then let me put it to you like this. You have 9 months left on your contract. slowly over time, as a consequence of os updates and your favourite apps updating, and newer apps with ever increasing demands on your phone coming along, your phones performance degrades. Your hardware isn't any slower, more is being asked of it. Now think about those 9 months you have left on a phone that has a frustrating level of lag. The phone with the extra headroom I mentioned now looks a more attractive proposition in any sane persons mind I'd say.
    Thanks for the nice insult. You might want to read the TOS of this website before calling other people insane for not rejecting a phone because of specs (which is the VAST MAJORITY of all phone users...aka Iphone, etc.)

    As they say....your mileage may vary. Some people are more demanding than others. Some will see more changes over time due to these demands. That always goes with the territory for any tech you buy.
    11-23-14 05:25 PM
  20. slagman5's Avatar
    I'm afraid that is certainly not the case for me, and clearly a lot of others who have chipped in here, clear proof that it is not that valid an assumption. Talk you may have heard from various iphone vs android arguments I'd personally disregard as background noise for the most part, since such arguments bear little substance upon examination.

    So what is different about my argument? Where is my substance? A valid question. I'd argue that I believe based on my experience as an IT worker, enterprise applications facilitate administration of products, improving my workflow. For example telnet, ssh rdp and other such client applications are of great importance.

    You go on to talk about email and text being the priority. I don't agree. They are important, at least mail is, but not to the exclusion of all else. The days of a business phone only being used by managers who have little to do but look at emails all day are gone. A working document suite at the very least requires a reasonable specification to be able to read and edit those email attachments that are spreadsheet and presentation documentation for example, particularly the larger and more complicated the content of those files get. Just try it with an old Bold 9900 on the kind of files I get mailed on a regular basis and you will find it either doesn't display very readably, or requires an incredible level of patience.



    Battery life is NOT always improved with lower specs . We don't know what the Classic chip is, but from the rumoured spec of 1.5, lets say for arguments sake it was an older s4, because people, including yourself, say that bb10 runs great on that (that is not my experience from the performance of my old q10, but certainly i agree in the z30 it was a smooth experience) . The s4 uses MORE power than a more modern 800 snapdragon, even though it is slower. Much of the improvements in modern CPUs has been in efficiency and the tight coupling of the rest of the components such as the GPU as much as anything else. So business users wanting better battery life would be best served by Blackberry giving them the better technology inside that their money gets them with other phone manufacturers.

    So we come to your point about cost, where you appear to be coming back to what I have been saying from the start. Here I agree totally, as I have said before, making this as good a place as any for me to exit this discussion - for its spec the Classic is overpriced. That is the only reason why it is not the phone for me.
    I'd be happy with the Z30 specs, which is nothing to brag about, but the improved gpu would definitely have its advantages. So I agree with you. People who just write us all off claiming we want to "brag" about specs clearly have not been paying much attention...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    11-23-14 05:31 PM
  21. redlightblinking's Avatar
    . People who just write us all off claiming we want to "brag" about specs clearly have not been paying much attention...
    paying much attention.....to what?
    11-23-14 05:33 PM
  22. redlightblinking's Avatar
    [INFO]
    Thread re-opened. However, if the bickering and personal comments continue, it may have to close permanently.

    Remember that the Classic specs have not yet been released! So let a civil discussion continue -- with that in mind.[/INFO]
    According to google, to "bicker" is to "argue about petty and trivial matters". I've read every post in this thread and didn't see anyone doing that, unless you are considering the subject of the thread itself to be petty and trivial It's hard to know what you conside "bickering" when you don't point out examples. Oddly enough, you removed an entire series of posts about the cost of the classic / passport relative to their specs....hardly seems trivial or petty to me.

    Now, I'm sure I'll get some demerit of something for questioning the teacher in class, but I really would like to know the rules so I can play the game.
    11-23-14 05:41 PM
  23. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I'm afraid that is certainly not the case for me, and clearly a lot of others who have chipped in here, clear proof that it is not that valid an assumption. Talk you may have heard from various iphone vs android arguments I'd personally disregard as background noise for the most part, since such arguments bear little substance upon examination.

    So what is different about my argument? Where is my substance? A valid question. I'd argue that I believe based on my experience as an IT worker, enterprise applications facilitate administration of products, improving my workflow. For example telnet, ssh rdp and other such client applications are of great importance.

    You go on to talk about email and text being the priority. I don't agree. They are important, at least mail is, but not to the exclusion of all else. The days of a business phone only being used by managers who have little to do but look at emails all day are gone. A working document suite at the very least requires a reasonable specification to be able to read and edit those email attachments that are spreadsheet and presentation documentation for example, particularly the larger and more complicated the content of those files get. Just try it with an old Bold 9900 on the kind of files I get mailed on a regular basis and you will find it either doesn't display very readably, or requires an incredible level of patience.
    Since we don't know everybody, I just did a generalization, it's pretty common in those discussions of iOS and Android.

    I Agree with you in the second paragraph, and as I told you, the Z30 with the S4 Pro performs pretty well in all the tasks you just described. I had a Q10, and now I have the passport with WAY better specs. Is it faster and snappier than the Q10? Yes it is, but not by a huge margin. Only in very heavy situations you can see the passport edging, most noticeable in android apps. If you don't use android apps, I would say that the Q10 has 90% the speed that the passport has, especially with 10.3.1

    I would guess that the Classic will have at least Z30 specs, and since I never had any complaints with Q10's performance, I would assume that the Classic would perform even better than Z30 since it has less pixels to push.

    As I pointed out, for the target that the Classic has, I think the specs are "good enought", but price is too high. But I agree that at the current price, specs should be better, but I think the first situation is beter because the classic is priced to close to the passport with so much difference in hardware


    Battery life is NOT always improved with lower specs . We don't know what the Classic chip is, but from the rumoured spec of 1.5, lets say for arguments sake it was an older s4, because people, including yourself, say that bb10 runs great on that (that is not my experience from the performance of my old q10, but certainly i agree in the z30 it was a smooth experience) . The s4 uses MORE power than a more modern 800 snapdragon, even though it is slower. Much of the improvements in modern CPUs has been in efficiency and the tight coupling of the rest of the components such as the GPU as much as anything else. So business users wanting better battery life would be best served by Blackberry giving them the better technology inside that their money gets them with other phone manufacturers.

    So we come to your point about cost, where you appear to be coming back to what I have been saying from the start. Here I agree totally, as I have said before, making this as good a place as any for me to exit this discussion - for its spec the Classic is overpriced. That is the only reason why it is not the phone for me.
    Do you have any data to support that the 800 uses less energy than the S4? I didn't find any and I actualy got curious now. But Qualcomm didn't talk much about energy usage when they launched the 800, if it was better than the previous processors I'm sure they would brag about it. All i found was from Anandtech, and they tested the S4 with consumption of around 750-800 mW. Dind't find anything abut the 800.

    Both Snapdragons 800 and S4 use the same 28nm manufacturing process, and "nanometers" are normaly one of the best indicators of energy eficiency in silicon chips, so I would assume that they will have a similar potential in using energy.

    The facts are that if you pick a Snapdragon 800 at 2.3ghz, and underclock it to 1.5ghz, it will consume less, in fact 10.3.1 "battery saving" mode does exactly that. Someone that knows a thing or two in the overclocking world will know that.

    So if the S4 is running 1.5ghz and is built with the same manufacturing process as the 800, is a perfect reasonable indication that it will be less battery hungry.

    Running a 720x720 screen will also be more economical than a 1440x1440. The screen itself might consume the same, but the CPU and GPU have to work harder to process more pixels. When the CPU works harder, it uses more energy aswell, that's why when you play games on the phone, it will drain the battery quicker than browsing, because gaming is more CPU+GPU intensive.
    Last edited by Joao Oliveira; 11-23-14 at 06:05 PM.
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 05:50 PM
  24. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    Thanks for the nice insult. You might want to read the TOS of this website before calling other people insane for not rejecting a phone because of specs (which is the VAST MAJORITY of all phone users...aka Iphone, etc.)
    I could pick over every point you've made and this would go on all night, and I have neither the time nor the appetite to. But I will pick up on the only part that matters to me.

    I have not called YOU insane, so no need to be advising me to read the TOS thanks very much. I come here to talk about tech, not to drum up as much bad feeling as I can. Frankly, from the way you've gone at it with myself and slagman in this thread, I'd say you are just proving the old saying about the amount of offence taken is directly proportional to the amount of offence sought. I believe you know darn well I haven't insulted you. If however on the off chance you genuinely feel you have been insulted, since that was not my intention I apologise. I have nothing more to say on this subject, so sleep well.
    Christoph7K likes this.
    11-23-14 05:52 PM
  25. offyoutoddle's Avatar

    Do you have any data to support that the 800 uses less energy than the S4? I didn't find any and I actualy got curious now.
    i dont' profess to be an expert on energy consumption tbh, but there was a good discussion in xda forums on this if it helps? Again, its not off the manufacturers site, but i'm sure you can track it down if you need to. Perhaps this is a good starting point if you are interested.

    Snapdragon 800 a battery friendly beast? | Google Nexus 5 | XDA Forums

    specifically, it compares the s600, which is an s4 pro variant and the s800. The key bit with the power figuires was here:


    28nm LP @ 1.7 GHz = 1075mv -- Snapdragon 600

    28nm HPM @ 1.7 GHz = 900mv -- Snapdragon 800

    You are right. clock a snapdragon 800 at 1.5 and it would be more efficient than an snapdragon 800 at 2.2, but I'm not sure there are any snapdragons available clocked that low? If the passport ships with a CPU clocked that low, i'm not sure where they will get CPU's that speed other than the older s4 pro units.

    You are also right about screen technologies, pixel pushing is a real hog on power. Again, the better gpu's that are more efficient in the newer SOC's help out here.

    I think you can only speak as you find. The Q10 for me laboured in some circumstances, the z30 did not, The Passport certainly doesn't in my experiences, particularly now on the latest os version, as it seemed to have some unexpected and random lag from time to time on the one that the phone shipped with. If the classic is similar spec to the z30 it will be about 1.7, not 1.5 won't it? If it had the same spec as the z30 it would be a slightly better proposition, again if price was taken into consideration appropriately.
    11-23-14 06:07 PM
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