12-17-14 02:19 AM
38 12
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  1. dvarnai's Avatar
    Lmao, strictly talking about email, if it's faster over the slowest network it will be faster over any network.

    Good for you about 4G, I have no such luxuries, I often travel in the countryside where there's only GPRS or EDGE if I'm lucky and watch my iPhone become useless just like the Z10 or Q10 was.
    Ugh no?

    100 times faster network with 5 times bigger file size > bis over gprs

    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    12-15-14 03:19 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Ugh no?

    100 times faster network with 5 times bigger file size > bis over gprs

    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    Assuming the exchange server knows exactly where the phone is at all times to know where to push the email. But it doesn't so that's why BIS was still faster and exchange is still not "true push email" since the phone has to periodically ping the exchange server to tell it where it is.

    In theory it's faster, in practice not so much.
    12-15-14 03:24 AM
  3. dvarnai's Avatar
    Assuming the exchange server knows exactly where the phone is at all times to know where to push the email. But it doesn't so that's why BIS was still faster and exchange is still not "true push email" since the phone has to periodically ping the exchange server to tell it where it is.

    In theory it's faster, in practice not so much.
    This doesn't even theoritically make any sense, also both imap and exchange have a kept alive tcp connection to the clients

    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    12-15-14 03:36 AM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    This doesn't even theoritically make any sense, also both imap and exchange have a kept alive tcp connection to the clients

    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    So if they have a tcp connection kept alive from phone to clients, theoretically is that still push email?

    Anyway, it's kept alive by periodically pinging the server, if the phone will change the IP address between pings there will be a period where the server will not know where to push the new emails until the next ping from the phone. When you move a lot this will happen often.
    12-15-14 03:51 AM
  5. dvarnai's Avatar
    So if they have a tcp connection kept alive from phone to clients, theoretically is that still push email?

    Anyway, it's kept alive by periodically pinging the server, if the phone will change the IP address between pings there will be a period where the server will not know where to push the new emails until the next ping from the phone. When you move a lot this will happen often.
    They have an active tcp connection all the time, meaning you don't have to ask the client if it's there, the tcp protocol guarantees that your packet won't be lost if you send it. there's heartbeat yes, but bis has that as well unless I'm wrong and it doesn't use the internet... Also, connecting to the email server is a matter of microseconds... while I do agree that edge/gprs without bes would be unusable, really that's not an issue nowadays, at least not as big of an issue to have a whole network kept maintained for a few select users



    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    12-15-14 04:19 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They have an active tcp connection all the time, meaning you don't have to ask the client if it's there, the tcp protocol guarantees that your packet won't be lost if you send it. there's heartbeat yes, but bis has that as well unless I'm wrong and it doesn't use the internet... Also, connecting to the email server is a matter of microseconds... while I do agree that edge/gprs without bes would be unusable, really that's not an issue nowadays, at least not as big of an issue to have a whole network kept maintained for a few select users



    BlackBerry Q10 SQN100-3
    Yes, BIS has that also but it's done by the NOC, not the device itself hence why we always call it "true push email", because the device doesn't have to do anything to get emails, everything is pushed from the NOC to the device.

    Since without BIS an active tcp connection and heartbeat is necessary then it's not true push email.

    And it's not really select few, the majority of BB users are still on Legacy and BIS is still not only supported by carriers but they still sell new legacy devices and BIS data plans.

    The infrastructure is all there, if only BB would make it available on BB10 if be back like a shot.
    12-15-14 04:42 AM
  7. dvarnai's Avatar
    Yes, BIS has that also but it's done by the NOC, not the device itself hence why we always call it "true push email", because the device doesn't have to do anything to get emails, everything is pushed from the NOC to the device.

    Since without BIS an active tcp connection and heartbeat is necessary then it's not true push email.

    And it's not really select few, the majority of BB users are still on Legacy and BIS is still not only supported by carriers but they still sell new legacy devices and BIS data plans.

    The infrastructure is all there, if only BB would make it available on BB10 if be back like a shot.
    the device still has to be connected to the network and report that its still there. just because a central remote server fetches the emails and you only have to be connected to one instead of N where N is the number of email servers you have setup, it wont make 30 minutes delay as one claimed. my exchange and imap emails are all instant without bis as well. on 2G the remote compression of data is definitely useful, but carriers are constantly pushing 3/4g. the reason 4g is a lot better than 3g is the fact that 3g required a LOT of hotspots while 4g can cover huge areas, so it will spread a lot faster than 3g. i really dont think theres need for BIS anymore, carriers should be pushing newer technologies instead of using a decade old workaround that bis is... data plans are bigger, faster internet technologies are available and getting more and more widespread. you could try setting up a VPN if you still need data compression

    3 interesting maps of t-mobile coverage in hungary:

    3G coverage after like a decade: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/3g.pdf
    HSDPA+ coverage after several years: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/3G_HSPA.pdf
    LTE coverage in about 2 years: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/LTE.pdf
    12-15-14 05:08 AM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    the device still has to be connected to the network and report that its still there. just because a central remote server fetches the emails and you only have to be connected to one instead of N where N is the number of email servers you have setup, it wont make 30 minutes delay as one claimed. my exchange and imap emails are all instant without bis as well. on 2G the remote compression of data is definitely useful, but carriers are constantly pushing 3/4g. the reason 4g is a lot better than 3g is the fact that 3g required a LOT of hotspots while 4g can cover huge areas, so it will spread a lot faster than 3g. i really dont think theres need for BIS anymore, carriers should be pushing newer technologies instead of using a decade old workaround that bis is... data plans are bigger, faster internet technologies are available and getting more and more widespread. you could try setting up a VPN if you still need data compression

    3 interesting maps of t-mobile coverage in hungary:

    3G coverage after like a decade: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/3g.pdf
    HSDPA+ coverage after several years: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/3G_HSPA.pdf
    LTE coverage in about 2 years: http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/LTE.pdf
    Sure I could set up a VPN but I don't want to, I want one solution from one manufacturer not to spread myself between providers. Besides, I could do that from any device, doesn't have to be a BB and that's the BB USP gone.

    One thing I've learned in almost 20 years of using a mobile phone is carriers never meet their coverage promises, as you can notice from the maps you provided (which are generally vastly overestimated as they show the outdoors coverage, not indoors) is that before they finish rolling out one type a network they move on to the next one.

    So the promised 3G coverage never really happened, the HSPA and then HSPA+ were abandoned in quite early stages and now the promised move to LTE, which appears to be reusing existent towers effectively shrinking their existing 2G and 3G coverage.

    Don't believe the hipe.
    12-15-14 05:39 AM
  9. dvarnai's Avatar
    Sure I could set up a VPN but I don't want to, I want one solution from one manufacturer not to spread myself between providers. Besides, I could do that from any device, doesn't have to be a BB and that's the BB USP gone.

    One thing I've learned in almost 20 years of using a mobile phone is carriers never meet their coverage promises, as you can notice from the maps you provided (which are generally vastly overestimated as they show the outdoors coverage, not indoors) is that before they finish rolling out one type a network they move on to the next one.

    So the promised 3G coverage never really happened, the HSPA and then HSPA+ were abandoned in quite early stages and now the promised move to LTE, which appears to be reusing existent towers effectively shrinking their existing 2G and 3G coverage.

    Don't believe the hipe.
    but 3G is generally more expensive and overall worse compared to LTE and for the past years t-mobile has been only selling 4G capable devices. last year they were offering free 4G devices for any subscription (i believe it was galaxy s3 mini and xperia sp). vodafone is basically the other way around:

    Lefedettsgi trkp - Vodafone.hu - Segthetnk? - A Vodafone-rl
    yellow - outdoor, red - indoor coverage

    they have 99% 3g but basically no lte. tmobile has 99.9% 2g coverage but basically its quite rare to lose 3g/hsdpa+/4g coverage unless you are standing in the middle of a crop
    12-15-14 05:53 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    but 3G is generally more expensive and overall worse compared to LTE and for the past years t-mobile has been only selling 4G capable devices. last year they were offering free 4G devices for any subscription (i believe it was galaxy s3 mini and xperia sp). vodafone is basically the other way around:

    Lefedettsgi trkp - Vodafone.hu - Segthetnk? - A Vodafone-rl
    yellow - outdoor, red - indoor coverage

    they have 99% 3g but basically no lte. tmobile has 99.9% 2g coverage but basically its quite rare to lose 3g/hsdpa+/4g coverage unless you are standing in the middle of a crop
    Unfortunately I am a Vodafone customer here, and I chose them because their extensive 2G coverage, you see, I value the ability to stay connected anywhere as opposed to having limited but fast internet connection.

    I could change to 3Mobile here and they have cheap and fast 4G, but if you do find yourself out in the country you're out of luck as they have no 2G at all.

    Oh, and by the way, those 99% coverage figures are also very very misleading, they refer to population, NOT territory, with most population living in Cities that leaves the countryside out.
    12-15-14 06:13 AM
  11. dvarnai's Avatar
    Unfortunately I am a Vodafone customer here, and I chose them because their extensive 2G coverage, you see, I value the ability to stay connected anywhere as opposed to having limited but fast internet connection.

    I could change to 3Mobile here and they have cheap and fast 4G, but if you do find yourself out in the country you're out of luck as they have no 2G at all.

    Oh, and by the way, those 99% coverage figures are also very very misleading, they refer to population, NOT territory, with most population living in Cities that leaves the countryside out.
    http://www.t-mobile.hu/static/sw/file/gsm.pdf

    its 99% territory coverage. it explicitly says so, although in hungarian so youll have to take my word :P
    12-15-14 06:50 AM
  12. WES51's Avatar
    Regardless of 2g,3g or 4g coverage, there are and always will be situations of weak signal, for whatever reasons. In such cases data compression can come in very handy.
    12-16-14 02:18 PM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    For those that forgot the BB compression benefits:

    "Do more of what you love with less
    Using less data not only gives you faster application operation. Using less data also increases your battery life. Best of all, DataSmart technology works behind the scenes you just use your BlackBerry smartphone as you normally would and it does the rest."

    BlackBerry Connection Newsletter
    12-17-14 02:19 AM
38 12

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