02-03-15 07:55 PM
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  1. @ivansharris's Avatar
    The two new blackberry phones announced don't appeal to me personally AND I honestly don't think Sprint is getting either one anyway which sucks even more. That Samsung S5 is looking more enticing which is a horrible thought... UGH!
    02-27-14 12:13 PM
  2. sulcopete's Avatar
    Wonderful post. I feel the same way. I've been rooting for this company and their products for years, and this move feels like a slap in the face as it does nothing but reek desperation. More so than that it shows that there is no confidence in the new platform at all.

    Posted via CB10
    This way of thinking is very ambiguous and in my opinion, not very well represented in reality. It's all in how you choose to look at things. Maybe putting a belt on a 10 device shows its versatility. It's not as though BB is abandoning the touchscreen devices. To me, it wouldn't seem wise as sales numbers are plummeting and stock value is diminishing, to say "Wait...just show confidence in the platform it's gonna pull us through. Just keep moving forward with this and nothing else." Ya right. BB would move forward directly to the grave.
    02-27-14 12:29 PM
  3. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    One has to wonder how many Q10 users on this thread think the Belt is going backwards? Can I get a show of hands? That's what I thought.
    02-27-14 12:34 PM
  4. JCMM's Avatar
    it depends if the belt is exactly the same as before or not, i believe there are some issues with the actual design of the Q10 but that can be fixed without implementing the old belt. We don't need more function keys on the Q10.

    take a look at this post: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-sense-910090/
    02-27-14 12:43 PM
  5. iamagod's Avatar
    I bet after the success of the Q20, there will be no more Q10/Q5 option. You want to talk about a tiny fraction of an already niche market? The people that want physical keyboard WITHOUT a trackpad.



    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 12:57 PM
  6. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Wanting a keyboard but having a problem with a belt is an oxymoron.
    02-27-14 01:01 PM
  7. fragment137's Avatar
    My opinion with what BlackBerry should be doing is simply: Why not?

    If it is in the interest of growing the user base and attracting legacy users or BB die-hards to the new platform, then why not?
    Anilu7 and acovey like this.
    02-27-14 01:14 PM
  8. bungaboy's Avatar
    Reminds me of . . . .

    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-27-14 01:16 PM
  9. rotorwrench's Avatar
    Apparently, a lot of enterprise tried the Q10 and gave up after a week. That's what prompted "classic" I believe.
    Many didn't give up, they just didn't like the Q10 as well as the 9930/9900. Why is that so hard to grasp for some? We're Enterprise, adapted BB10 and Q10s, been on them for months but most in our company still prefer to have a trackpad. It has nothing to do with "reluctance to move forward" or "getting used to BB10/gestures" , it has to do with preference based on experience. With the Q20 announcement everybody is getting excited again.
    acovey and Anilu7 like this.
    02-27-14 01:19 PM
  10. ljfong's Avatar
    The majority of die-hard BlackBerry users appreciate the belt and the trackpad, just like Windows users who appreciate the Start button and traditional desktop screen. It really took a while to sink in for Microsoft after Windows 8 was getting bad reviews and publicity left and right. Microsoft is now backpedalling to some extent. Same thing just happened with BlackBerry.
    Frehley, acovey and Anilu7 like this.
    02-27-14 01:58 PM
  11. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    1. Blackberry's user base is such that they need to convert users or get those that left the platform to come back. That's their issue. Yes, selling phones to existing users is fine, but a lot of people on a Legacy Device (especially a Curve) aren't going to fork out the kind of cash we can expect them to ask for the Q20. Even for players like Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. the high end is becoming an upgrade trademill to existing users and there isn't much growth there (Apple only does well because their user base upgrades religiously, they still aren't getting huge GROWTH at the high end and lack of low-end devices is why their market share (Globally) remains very low).

    Users on Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and even a lot of BB10 users will not look at a "toolbelt" as a reason to buy this phone. Most, not all. I'm sure a few will...

    2. Seems like a waste of money to me. They simply need to price competitively the Q and Z series and stick to 5" on the Z for a while and perhaps give a slightly bigger screen on the Q. I'm thinking corporate customers are likely the main drivers for introducing the Q20 and devices like it.
    Well, John Chen is in agreement with my side. So let's see.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    02-27-14 02:12 PM
  12. chrysaurora's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry is doing exactly what they should do. They are giving us 3 options :
    1. full touch
    2. touch+keyboard
    3. touch+keyboard+track pad


    We should appreciate the fact that the company is listening to customers and is building phones as they ask for. Probably soon they will have a slider phone too.

    Why we see all this complaining is because some people with the Q10 or Q5 have no patience and they want to see the next upgraded Q10 style phone already and they hate to see they will have to wait a little longer.

    Visit my BBM Channel C000E96F6
    Wish they would add a "slider with toolbelt" to it. Like Torch but much better designed, much cooler looking!
    andreirad and acovey like this.
    02-27-14 02:25 PM
  13. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    It looks like my old Nokia... just saying...
    02-27-14 02:50 PM
  14. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Blackberry core users don't really care how a phone looks...only how it works....just sayin.
    02-27-14 03:53 PM
  15. milo53's Avatar
    The announcement of the Q20 has really been eating away at me since I heard about it earlier today. I genuinely am struggling to understand how this benefits the brand and how this shows that John Chen is anything but totally behind BlackBerry 10. There are two main reasons why this got me burning.

    1. At the core of BlackBerry 10 is the gestures. Swipe up, swipe down - everything is just a swipe away. I understand that there are many legacy users still out there but manufacturing this phone is kind of like giving up. I reckon give most of these legacy users an existing BB10 device for a less than a month and not many of them are going to want to go back. The gestures render the toolbelt useless, and this phone makes me feel like BlackBerry are taking a massive step backwards.

    2. I am currently using a Q10 and I would love a similar phone with a bigger screen. I think it's safe to say most Q10 users would. I realise that the screen on Q20 is bigger but the toolbelt is just taking up room that could have given us the perfect screen size. I really hope we will still see a Q10 like device with a bigger screen and that this toolbelt doesn't hinder any plans or progress to making this happen.

    BlackBerry smartphones prior to BlackBerry 10 were terribly behind the competitors in terms of what was available then. They were old, outdated, slow - everything that a phone in today's market cannot compete with. Taking one of these features from those phones and putting it on something great doesn't sit well. At the end of the day, the belt takes up room I'd rather have with my screen and with BlackBerry 10 a toolbelt is just simply not required.
    This is sales motivated only, BB has determined the legacy folks out there would prefer the belt for their next upgrade. BB desperately needs those sales, easier to flip legacy users than IOS or Android. I understand why they are doing this. From sales POV it makes sense. After all, the legacy devices outsell BB10, this approach should help, can't hurt.

    Remember, "low hanging fruit"
    dracolnyte likes this.
    02-27-14 04:13 PM
  16. aaronpan's Avatar
    The announcement of the Q20 has really been eating away at me since I heard about it earlier today. I genuinely am struggling to understand how this benefits the brand and how this shows that John Chen is anything but totally behind BlackBerry 10. There are two main reasons why this got me burning.

    1. At the core of BlackBerry 10 is the gestures. Swipe up, swipe down - everything is just a swipe away. I understand that there are many legacy users still out there but manufacturing this phone is kind of like giving up. I reckon give most of these legacy users an existing BB10 device for a less than a month and not many of them are going to want to go back. The gestures render the toolbelt useless, and this phone makes me feel like BlackBerry are taking a massive step backwards.

    2. I am currently using a Q10 and I would love a similar phone with a bigger screen. I think it's safe to say most Q10 users would. I realise that the screen on Q20 is bigger but the toolbelt is just taking up room that could have given us the perfect screen size. I really hope we will still see a Q10 like device with a bigger screen and that this toolbelt doesn't hinder any plans or progress to making this happen.

    BlackBerry smartphones prior to BlackBerry 10 were terribly behind the competitors in terms of what was available then. They were old, outdated, slow - everything that a phone in today's market cannot compete with. Taking one of these features from those phones and putting it on something great doesn't sit well. At the end of the day, the belt takes up room I'd rather have with my screen and with BlackBerry 10 a toolbelt is just simply not required.
    Well said!!

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 04:20 PM
  17. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    Having a phone that is rectangular-ish is sooo 2012. Phones should be round like CD's!
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-27-14 04:24 PM
  18. Frehley's Avatar
    I cannot believe how many people are so negative, and nasty, about the Q20 announcement and the announced return of the "tool belt" hard buttons.

    It is NOT going to be the only qwerty option available, so if you don't want it, don't buy it!! There are many of us that would love having the track pad, call and call end buttons as well as the home button.

    I'm sure that many of the bashers have used a 99xx series in the past and, at the time, thought that it was the greatest device in the world...I know that is how I viewed it.

    If the Q20 is released with the tool belt, I will be buying it outright. The 99xx was the best device, BB10 is the best OS out there, the best of both worlds!

    Saying that, I know that not everyone will get and use one, but come on, there are enough choices to satisfy everyone...full touch, touch with qwerty and now the announced touch/tool belt/qwerty Q20.
    Last edited by Frehley; 02-27-14 at 05:39 PM. Reason: fix grammar
    acovey and Anilu7 like this.
    02-27-14 05:37 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    I wonder what people think, WHY there are still 70m+ users on legacy devices.

    I think your 70 million figure is way out of date, it has been shrinking precipitously over the last year.


    But the majority is these business users who would WISH to have a larger screen and modern phone comfort, but who KNOW that there is nothing better than a physical keyboard and a trackpad when having to deal with ~100 or so messages a day.


    Are those the people who "KNOW" that Ford is superior to General Motors, or who "KNOW" that Islam is better than Christianity, or who "KNOW" that Green is better than Blue?

    The available evidence suggests that people in general these days prefer full touch smartphones. Even traditional bastions of Blackberry use, like the US Air Force, which is dumping many thousands of Blackberries in favor of iPhones.

    So I think it's a bit presumptuous to claim that "all business users" somehow MUST KNOW that these keyboard devices are better and more desirable. The sales of touchscreen devices (probably 100x the sales number compared to Blackberry physical keyboard smartphones today), suggests otherwise.



    So what's wrong with a strategy that tries to make a compelling offer to these users, give them a significantly larger screen, an equally good or even better keyboard, a modern OS, and a few phiscal keys that most of them would like to coninue to use?

    The bottom line is: BlackBerry sales have dropped to levels not seen in 5 years or more, while their competitors sales are skyrocketing. Blackberry has publicly stated that they are going to emphasize mobile management tools and "regulated enterprises", many of which are still using the old BBOS devices. They are trying to find a device that will be more familiar to those users, trying to forestall migration to other platforms.

    In a nutshell, Blackberry as a company which has lost massive amounts of money and eliminated many many thousands of jobs over the last 2 years is in no position to make a global push for mass market sales, so they are hunkering down and trying to save what few legacy OS users they still have. They don't really have much choice.

    But do not mistake that as some kind of proof that those designs have mass-market appeal. They do not, outside of certain places slow to adapt to technology trends, which still value Blackberry's brand.


    Why the Q20 is so unbelievably annoying-blackberry-sales-008.png
    02-27-14 05:41 PM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    Apparently, a lot of enterprise tried the Q10 and gave up after a week. That's what prompted "classic" I believe.
    Yes a lot of people did

    Always entertaining when people use made-up fictional abstractions like "A lot of people this", "A lot of people that".

    In my experience, about 75% of the time, people make this stuff up in a weak attempt to prop-up their personal preferences.

    So you have some proof that people hated the Q10 in some unique way that isn't just a reflection of the fact that MOST OF THE WORLD prefers full touchscreen smartphones these days in general?
    RubberChicken76 likes this.
    02-27-14 05:44 PM
  21. FF22's Avatar
    The announcement of the Q20 has really been eating away at me since I heard about it earlier today. I genuinely am struggling to understand how this benefits the brand and how this shows that John Chen is anything but totally behind BlackBerry 10. There are two main reasons why this got me burning.

    1. At the core of BlackBerry 10 is the gestures. Swipe up, swipe down - everything is just a swipe away. I understand that there are many legacy users still out there but manufacturing this phone is kind of like giving up. I reckon give most of these legacy users an existing BB10 device for a less than a month and not many of them are going to want to go back. The gestures render the toolbelt useless, and this phone makes me feel like BlackBerry are taking a massive step backwards.

    2. I am currently using a Q10 and I would love a similar phone with a bigger screen. I think it's safe to say most Q10 users would. I realise that the screen on Q20 is bigger but the toolbelt is just taking up room that could have given us the perfect screen size. I really hope we will still see a Q10 like device with a bigger screen and that this toolbelt doesn't hinder any plans or progress to making this happen.

    BlackBerry smartphones prior to BlackBerry 10 were terribly behind the competitors in terms of what was available then. They were old, outdated, slow - everything that a phone in today's market cannot compete with. Taking one of these features from those phones and putting it on something great doesn't sit well. At the end of the day, the belt takes up room I'd rather have with my screen and with BlackBerry 10 a toolbelt is just simply not required.
    Why do you need a real keyboard. The full touchscreen should be more than sufficient for any BB user. The touchscreen has worked well for Android and definitely for Apple. Please, just give up the keyboard q10 and move on and simplify BB's entire line of devices. No BELT, no keys, it should definitely work for you and everyone.

    See, quite simple actually.

    Have you not had any problems getting the damn cursor spot on for tight editing? Or selecting precisely the exact text you want? Well, I have. I don't know if the entire belt is necessary but why the heck not.

    So, let's make the tradeoff. You give up the entire keyboard and the whiners can give up the Belt and Trackpad.
    02-27-14 05:48 PM
  22. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The majority of die-hard BlackBerry users appreciate the belt and the trackpad
    I really wish people would stop doing this. You haven't spoken to "the majority of die-hard BlackBerry users" so why make that assumption? Same with people who speak on behalf of all of enterprise customers.

    Just say what's actually happened ... "in my social circle", "in my specific company", "with the people I know", "on CrackBerry groups, there seem to be users that ...?"

    It's like the people who say that everyone in their country acts a certain way. You don't know everyone in your country, you don't know the 18 million or so enterprise customers etc. ;-)
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-27-14 05:56 PM
  23. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    I really wish people would stop doing this. You haven't spoken to "the majority of die-hard BlackBerry users" so why make that assumption? Same with people who speak on behalf of all of enterprise customers.

    Just say what's actually happened ... "in my social circle", "in my specific company", "with the people I know", "on CrackBerry groups, there seem to be users that ...?"

    It's like the people who say that everyone in their country acts a certain way. You don't know everyone in your country, you don't know the 18 million or so enterprise customers etc. ;-)
    John Chen has spoke to a lot, and came to the decision from his conversations to have this phone developed.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    02-27-14 05:58 PM
  24. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Blackberry core users don't really care how a phone looks...only how it works....just sayin.
    Well, you personally feel that way. Why speak on behalf of everyone? I freely admit that when I had the choice between the 9900 and the 9810 a few years ago, I did choose the 9900 partially because I thought it was a much nicer looking device.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 02-27-14 at 06:17 PM.
    Frehley likes this.
    02-27-14 05:59 PM
  25. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    John Chen has spoke to a lot, and came to the decision from his conversations to have this phone developed.
    Sure - and I hope it translates into upgrade sales, migrations from legacy BlackBerrys and more BES 10 installations. Honestly though, I'm going to take a wait-and-see attitude because I suspect a lot of companies are more concerned about BlackBerry's viability in 1 year, 2 year, 3 years than they are of whether or not a device has a trackpad. And the only way to solve that frankly is to see profits, rising sales, a growing userbase and greater adoption of the platform.

    The world right now sees a company with a declining userbase, a lot of bad headlines, financial losses, and at least one product completely dumped in the last year. I like my Z10 fine and like BlackBerry 10 fine, but if I had to buy a bunch of devices for my company, I'd be very worried about how the product is sold and supported.
    02-27-14 06:20 PM
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