02-03-15 07:55 PM
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  1. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    You are right...options are a hard concept to understand. Who needs options?
    The announcement of the Q20 has really been eating away at me since I heard about it earlier today. I genuinely am struggling to understand how this benefits the brand and how this shows that John Chen is anything but totally behind BlackBerry 10. There are two main reasons why this got me burning.

    1. At the core of BlackBerry 10 is the gestures. Swipe up, swipe down - everything is just a swipe away. I understand that there are many legacy users still out there but manufacturing this phone is kind of like giving up. I reckon give most of these legacy users an existing BB10 device for a less than a month and not many of them are going to want to go back. The gestures render the toolbelt useless, and this phone makes me feel like BlackBerry are taking a massive step backwards.

    2. I am currently using a Q10 and I would love a similar phone with a bigger screen. I think it's safe to say most Q10 users would. I realise that the screen on Q20 is bigger but the toolbelt is just taking up room that could have given us the perfect screen size. I really hope we will still see a Q10 like device with a bigger screen and that this toolbelt doesn't hinder any plans or progress to making this happen.

    BlackBerry smartphones prior to BlackBerry 10 were terribly behind the competitors in terms of what was available then. They were old, outdated, slow - everything that a phone in today's market cannot compete with. Taking one of these features from those phones and putting it on something great doesn't sit well. At the end of the day, the belt takes up room I'd rather have with my screen and with BlackBerry 10 a toolbelt is just simply not required.
    Anilu7 likes this.
    02-26-14 10:27 AM
  2. EchuOkan1's Avatar
    Actually I think it makes them seem to be doing what the other phone companies aren't doing, which is listening to their customers. If they are to survive, they absolutely must hold onto their current base.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    Totally agree. One of people's gripe is that BlackBerry is out of touch with their customers. This shows they are listening.

    Posted via CB10
    Anilu7 likes this.
    02-26-14 10:30 AM
  3. dayno25's Avatar
    You are right...options are a hard concept to understand. Who needs options?
    Way to miss the point there, chum
    02-26-14 10:31 AM
  4. anon6040766's Avatar
    The Z30 isn't an upgrade from the Z10? I agree time frame is an issue to Q10 users who won't get Q20 (probably the vast majority want the Q30).

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    Sure without a doubt I can speak from experience that the Z30 is an upgrade from the Z10. However, there are many Z10 users that like the size of their Z10 and are happy with most specs, just want faster processor, better battery life, etc. So I do think we will see another modified Z10 at some point.

    Posted via my BlackBerry Q10 or Z30 on VZW from Philly
    02-26-14 10:32 AM
  5. dayno25's Avatar
    You don't have to like it, no one is putting a gun upto your head forcing you to buy, but you have to atleast respect the opinion of others.
    Thanks, for a minute there I thought there was a gun to my head I was starting to lose my ****. Thanks to you I now can not buy the Q20 and no longer have to worry about being shot in the head.

    Edit: Sarcasm aside, I feel as though I in no way disrespected the opinion of others.
    02-26-14 10:34 AM
  6. dayno25's Avatar
    Apparently, a lot of enterprise tried the Q10 and gave up after a week. That's what prompted "classic" I believe.
    Good point. I remember our office (I work in a bank) trying out a few Q10's with certain staff members but nearly everyone is still using a a Bold 9900 or 9700.
    02-26-14 10:36 AM
  7. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    I think it may be simplest to put it that none of the BB10 phones appeal to everyone.

    Q10/Q5 - a lot of people are done with physical keyboards and want max screen size.

    Z30/Z10 - a lot of people feel they need physical keyboards and are willing to sacrifice screen size for it.

    Q20 - a lot of people are comfortable with all gesture based phones and don't want function keys/trackpad for BB10.

    The point is this: There are options for a lot of people now. Everyone should recognize and accept that not all devices made will be of interest to you. The Z series is one I have no interest in, but if it gets more BlackBerry's in people's hands, I am all for it.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    acovey likes this.
    02-26-14 10:43 AM
  8. dejanh's Avatar
    Or it recognizes the reality that BBOS phones still outsell BB10 phones so they are trying to convert the BBOS owners.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    Hardly. By that twisted logic, they never should have introduced a new OS and instead focused their efforts of "improving" the BBOS experience for all existing users, most of whom would not even use a BlackBerry if they had a choice. The whole argument you are making is based on a fallacy that the remaining legacy users need this to move on. However, if you actually look at the landscape, (a) most legacy users have already moved on, to other platforms, and (b) those that did not are generally not staying with the legacy platform by choice, rather by necessity, financial or otherwise. In fact, I will just leave the comment from one of these "legacy" users right here (see below) to perfectly illustrate my point. Are buttons and track pad really the issue?

    I think it is great for the option to who wants it but I also want email to work like it did on Bbos

    Posted via CB10
    To me it gives the message "Not even we're sold on BB10, why should you be?"

    Would that work for enterprise? Perhaps. Will this make it harder to get consumers back on board? Most definitely.

    On a side note, did anyone call the five buttons the "belt"/the "tool belt" before last week?

    Posted via CB10
    This, a thousand times. I'd like to point out one prime example of how people feel about BlackBerry and the whole "enterprise" notion. A very good friend of mine was introduced to the smartphone market through BlackBerry but, even though she was impressed by the efficiency of communication, ended up switching to the iPhone, not because it is "better" but because she did not want to carry around a device with her that made her feel "associated" to work. Her BlackBerry was mandated, not chosen. Most current legacy users are likely in the same boat. If they had a choice, they would change the platform. The focus should be on showing people how good the new BlackBerry 10 is for work and play, and not to display public lack of confidence in the new platform.


    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-26-14 10:45 AM
  9. zapblam's Avatar
    Trackpad + Keyboard + Gloves. My work environment requires LOTS of mobile text input while wearing gloves.

    So its either Legacy or Samsung's glove friendly solutions.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900
    02-26-14 10:48 AM
  10. hecmanhoops's Avatar
    This Q20 gives me some optimism to finally upgrade my Pearl which I love love love and can't give up despite it's severe shortcomings. What I don't understand, hence the reason for my post, is why has BlackBerry totally ignored the half-Qwerty keyboard like the Pearl has? To me it's the greatest keyboard they ever manufactured. The keys are bigger to the touch and texting and emailing is lightening fast. I would have loved to see a Q20 with a half-Qwerty keyboard option. Does anyone know if Blackberry will every manufacture one again or why they killed it? Thanks in advance from a sad half-Qwerty user!
    02-26-14 10:48 AM
  11. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    Hardly. By that twisted logic, they never should have introduced a new OS and instead focused their efforts of "improving" the BBOS experience for all existing users, most of whom would not even use a BlackBerry if they had a choice. The whole argument you are making is based on a fallacy that the remaining legacy users need this to move on. However, if you actually look at the landscape, (a) most legacy users have already moved on, to other platforms, and (b) those that did not are generally not staying with the legacy platform by choice, rather by necessity, financial or otherwise. In fact, I will just leave the comment from one of these "legacy" users right here (see below) to perfectly illustrate my point. Are buttons and track pad really the issue?




    This, a thousand times. I'd like to point out one prime example of how people feel about BlackBerry and the whole "enterprise" notion. A very good friend of mine was introduced to the smartphone market through BlackBerry but, even though she was impressed by the efficiency of communication, ended up switching to the iPhone, not because it is "better" but because she did not want to carry around a device with her that made her feel "associated" to work. Her BlackBerry was mandated, not chosen. Most current legacy users are likely in the same boat. If they had a choice, they would change the platform. The focus should be on showing people how good the new BlackBerry 10 is for work and play, and not to display public lack of confidence in the new platform.


    Posted via CB10
    It is indisputable that legacy devices still outsell BB10 devices.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    02-26-14 10:48 AM
  12. kbz1960's Avatar
    It is indisputable that legacy devices still outsell BB10 devices.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    True but the reason is not.
    02-26-14 10:55 AM
  13. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    True but the reason is not.
    This phone is designed for people like this:
    Why the Q20 is so unbelievably annoying-img_20140226_102243.png

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    acovey, Anilu7 and anon8091350 like this.
    02-26-14 10:57 AM
  14. ypwandrews's Avatar
    My big problem with this is that it adds another phone to my wish list. While I don't know if adding the tool belt will be a winner, it still will be a great handset for a lot of people. I like choice, and I'll buy what I like and suits my needs when I upgrade next. My preference would not necessarily include the tool belt as I would like a bigger screen than my Q10 has, but who knows, it may be so compelling once it's out that we all look back at this discussion and laugh...embarrassed that we complained about the next big deal.
    02-26-14 11:04 AM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The issue is the 1:1 screen. As long as the Q has a square screen the addition or deletion of the belt has no effect on the screen size. I agree with OP that most potential consumers would prefer a Q phone with a 4 inch screen and no belt vs a 3.5 inch screen and a belt.

    I prefer my 2.8 inch screen with a belt over a 3.1 inch screen and no belt.

    Chen might be correct for the Enterprise market with respect to Q phones but I think on the whole the Enterprise market wants a all touch phone.
    dayno25 likes this.
    02-26-14 11:12 AM
  16. JAS0NB0URNE's Avatar
    The issue is the 1:1 screen. As long as the Q has a square screen the addition or deletion of the belt has no effect on the screen size. I agree with OP that most potential consumers would prefer a Q phone with a 4 inch screen and no belt vs a 3.5 inch screen and a belt.

    I prefer my 2.8 inch screen with a belt over a 3.1 inch screen and no belt.

    Chen might be correct for the Enterprise market with respect to Q phones but I think on the whole the Enterprise market wants a all touch phone.
    Those consumers who want a Q phone (like myself) will get a phone with a bigger screen sans the belt.

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    02-26-14 11:16 AM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    This phone is designed for people like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140226_102243.png 
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ID:	251076

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    BlackBerry is not in a financial position to be catering to these users. They need to stay the course on BlackBerry 10. Strategically, this device is a bad move.

    @thurask - you are also right, nobody ever called the function buttons "classic belt" or "tool belt". If fact it is not any sort of "tool belt" at all. It's a collection of (now defunct) single function buttons. That's it. The new name is something coined in the last two to three days, and it is misleading and dumb.

    I'd also like to be clear about one thing. I am not against the track pad per say, if implemented correctly and if it is more reliable than the past implementations. The track pad does add another level of precision and usability for one handed use especially. I don't think it is necessary, but it won't hurt. The rest of the buttons however I am vehemently against.

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-14 11:22 AM
  18. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    My thoughts mirrored the OP's and still do, a bit.

    When BlackBerry 10 first launched, I loved how unique an OS navigated completely by gestures was. It was a big leap and also a big gamble. While people initially found it confusing, once they got used to it, they loved it.

    Despite this, it seems like every iteration of BlackBerry 10 has scaled this back a bit. With the addition of the "BlackBerry Hub" icon, the change to the call screen, and now the return of the trackpad/"belt", it appears that with every 5 steps taken forward, there's one step back.

    One thing that assuages my worries, though, is that Chen has this type of device as simply a separate line of devices. People who miss the physical keys have an option now as BlackBerry will continue to produce devices based purely on gestures as well. This "Classic" series may appeal to more legacy and power users and maybe can even bring back former users who just couldn't get the BB10 gestures. I hope, for the company's sake, it works.

    I want to wait until we see the device and how the keys function on BB10 before I make any final judgments on the device. I hope it's not some strange combination of the Q10 and 9900 and that BlackBerry has differentiated the design and implementation on BB10 from BB7 devices.

    I hope we never see this back on the full-touch devices. But if it's coming back, much better to do so on the physical keyboard phones.

    Posted via CB10
    dejanh likes this.
    02-26-14 11:22 AM
  19. kbz1960's Avatar
    This phone is designed for people like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20140226_102243.png 
Views:	1490 
Size:	100.8 KB 
ID:	251076

    Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.
    This person said nothing about a belt or trackpad if they want pkb they could any bb with one.
    02-26-14 11:22 AM
  20. andreirad's Avatar
    Wonderful post. I feel the same way. I've been rooting for this company and their products for years, and this move feels like a slap in the face as it does nothing but reek desperation. More so than that it shows that there is no confidence in the new platform at all.

    Posted via CB10
    I know is terrible they should just give you one phone style and once a year add 2MP at the camera and you will happily clap you're hands for how amazing the new phone is and go and spend you're money And maybe once in 8 years add a fingerprint scanner and blow your mind with the amazing productivity

    Visit my BBM Channel C000E96F6
    02-26-14 12:05 PM
  21. dejanh's Avatar
    I know is terrible they should just give you one phone style and once a year add 2MP at the camera and you will happily clap you're hands for how amazing the new phone is and go and spend you're money And maybe once in 8 years add a fingerprint scanner and blow your mind with the amazing productivity

    Visit my BBM Channel C000E96F6
    More choice isn't always better. In fact it is overwhelming, confusing, and expensive. Exactly the case here.

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-14 12:15 PM
  22. graylingboy's Avatar
    I don't know if this has been covered before but it is kind of on this subject. I have always felt that a optional virtual track pad would be a plan on the full screen phone. There is I feel no doubt that text correction is easier with a track pad but when I'm not using it, shazam, nice big cushty screen.
    I feel this would please both camps, Q&Z users.

    Posted via the Magic that is Z30
    02-26-14 12:16 PM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    More choice isn't always better. In fact it is overwhelming, confusing, and expensive. Exactly the case here.

    Posted via CB10
    I have to say more choice is good. Most people prefer one way over another for whatever reason they can ignore the other choices unless of course it's physical buttons which can't be ignored cause they are there to be accidentally pushed.
    02-26-14 12:18 PM
  24. andreirad's Avatar
    More choice isn't always better. In fact it is overwhelming, confusing, and expensive. Exactly the case here.

    Posted via CB10
    That's you're opinion and I respect that but seems other people have other opinions, some will not consider BB10 because is not giving them the trackpad and they think you're opinion is totally wrong. So the same way some people here complain because they want dark theme and other want white and in the end they got the option to choose and probably soon they will get the option between answering phone screen's because I'm sure you are aware is a debate about that now , here we go, we will have all styles of phones and then people will be left just to complain because they can't find something to complain about

    Visit my BBM Channel C000E96F6
    acovey likes this.
    02-26-14 12:33 PM
  25. agarwal.apar's Avatar
    Keep calm an switch to iPhone ! lol, anyhow, stop the hate and support JC and his decisions
    02-26-14 01:04 PM
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