[terminatorx]

These are still early days and there are refinements needed to the keyboard devices in the BB10 line. That being the tool belt with trackpad. I am a big BlackBerry supporter, but in my personal opinion it was an absolute mistake to remove this from the Q10 and Q5.

The trackpad control, from the earliest devices is a quintessential feature and is the epitome of the BlackBerry experience on devices equipped with keyboard. I can guarantee you that if the toolbelt were innovatively designed into the Q10 and Q5, every single person who uses these devices would love them even more.

Luckily they have come to their senses and are reintroducing the toolbelt with the Q20.

Once this device is released, you will see many Bold and other BBOS users upgrade to it.

2) If you read Kevin's interview posted last night, BlackBerry is going to also make qwerty keyboard phones without the toolbelt. They are just making different lines of phones - all touch, qwerty with no toolbelt, qwerty with toolbelt. The Q20 is to placate a segment of BlackBerry legacy owners who have resisted upgrading because they want the toolbelt, whether it is to answer/reject/hangup from a phone call without looking at the screen, or to use the trackpad for superior copy/paste ability.

You nailed it. And this is why I loved all those Jason Bourne movies, the guy is brilliant.

[Omnitech]

Plus BES10 is useless to enterprises/governments departments that don't use Microsoft Exchange...

You have no idea what you're talking about. BES 10.2 supports virtually every commercial mail/groupware server commonly used in enterprise organizations these days:

• Microsoft Exchange
• IBM Notes (Traveler)
• IBM SmartCloud
• Novell Groupwise
• Google Apps

http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/..._Matrix_en.pdf

...yes, many still use POP3 with very limited inbox storage space, like my wife's work.

Always entertaining to see how people re-define terms like "many".

Hint: sample of 1 is not very interesting.

[Omnitech]

Could you explain how the trackpad is a bad idea. Or what might be a better way to give power users the fine control we've been begging for? Because the touchscreen isn't cutting it.

I personally believe that there are aspects of the old system that were better for editing text compared to BB10 as it currently exists.

I do not think that "any" form of touch UI is automatically inferior. I think what handicaps BB10 in particular is a poorly-implemented text editing UI.

In particular, I think text selection/copy/paste is poor, particularly on the all-touch devices. I also think cursor management is poor. In both cases, both iOS and Android (in my experience) are better in that respect.

So IMHO, one of the key reasons why a certain vocal minority of people have remained so enamored of their old BBOS devices and trackpads for text editing is because the text editing UI on BB10 is not competitive with other modern all-touch UIs.

And while the "smart keyboard" of BB10 gets lots of praise, I find it creates lots of errors for me.

That's where I think the hardware keyboard would help - but I have not been very excited about the Q10, because among other things I think its screen is too small. Personally I'd rather have a 4:3 or 16:10 vertical screen like the old Torch, but with a better keyboard.

The other problem with BB10 IMHO is that it seems very poorly optimized for the small square screen devices, and it takes up way too much of the visible area with UI junk, making the screen seem even smaller than it is.

Those are all what I consider to be fairly easily-surmountable problems, not "showstoppers" for BB10.

And if you doubt that the people that want to go back to BBOS UI and trackpad are in a small minority, just check the comments on Crackberry's latest blog post, which is just the latest example of many.

[belfastdispatcher]

You have no idea what you're talking about. BES 10.2 supports virtually every commercial mail/groupware server commonly used in enterprise organizations these days:

• Microsoft Exchange
• IBM Notes (Traveler)
• IBM SmartCloud
• Novell Groupwise
• Google Apps

http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/..._Matrix_en.pdf






Always entertaining to see how people re-define terms like "many".

Hint: sample of 1 is not very interesting.

The one sample I used is doeni.gov.uk so pretty big and no matter what service they use, they use POP3 for email delivery.

Does BES10 work with POP3?


#believeinfilm

[Omnitech]

Does BES10 work with POP3?

Since POP systems do not have any sort of groupware/PIM functionality by definition, it seems rather pointless.

However I do believe it can be done, if you're exceedingly silly.

FYI: Microsoft Exchange supports both IMAP and POP in addition to EAS, if you choose to enable them. Most organizations do not because you give up 80% of the system's capabilities if you do that because the protocols are fundamentally limited.

[JAS0NB0URNE]

You nailed it. And this is why I loved all those Jason Bourne movies, the guy is brilliant.

Obviously this guy knows what he's talking about.

Posted with my ? Q10.

[vicky_235235]

Well what I think is let's jus not complain and except. The upcoming phone to new BlackBerry 10.

[meltbox360]

The Z10 is my first BlackBerry device and honestly I wish it had a trackpad. My nexus one had a trackball, which broke in under a year. But I loved the damn thing before it broke. It was BRILLIANT. There are some things people have never used and will argue senselessly against because they don't understand the utility of it and also refuse to discover it's utility. Oh well, for the rest of us there's the dream of a trackpad.

Posted via CB10

[BillKingston]

I am one of those legacy device users that has refused to upgrade because of the lack of a track pad. I am on a Bold 9700 with OS5 and I have a Google Nexus 5 for work. All my data is on the Nexus 5 and I still use the 9700 for text messages because I honestly can't perform as quickly with the touch screen.
Doing cutting and pasting on the N5 touchscreen is a pain to put it mildly and I can't imagine the frustration for people with bigger fingers doing this with 100s of emails a day on the Q10. I'm an email power user. I could really care more or less about apps (I could count on two hands the number of apps I actually download and use).
I am waiting...patiently...for the Q20/Classic. I think it will marry everything that makes BlackBerry great for the business user.

[guygardner73]

I am one of those legacy device users that has refused to upgrade because of the lack of a track pad. I am on a Bold 9700 with OS5 and I have a Google Nexus 5 for work. All my data is on the Nexus 5 and I still use the 9700 for text messages because I honestly can't perform as quickly with the touch screen.
Doing cutting and pasting on the N5 touchscreen is a pain to put it mildly and I can't imagine the frustration for people with bigger fingers doing this with 100s of emails a day on the Q10. I'm an email power user. I could really care more or less about apps (I could count on two hands the number of apps I actually download and use).
I am waiting...patiently...for the Q20/Classic. I think it will marry everything that makes BlackBerry great for the business user.

I think I'm with you on this. I'm all about the email and although I love my Z10, I was considering buying a 9900 again just to get me through the work day a little quicker and easier. I'll probably go for the Q20 but not before I get the Q30 / Windermere in my hands for a trial run.

Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.3175 O2 UK

[anon(870071)]

I personally believe that there are aspects of the old system that were better for editing text compared to BB10 as it currently exists.

I do not think that "any" form of touch UI is automatically inferior. I think what handicaps BB10 in particular is a poorly-implemented text editing UI.

In particular, I think text selection/copy/paste is poor, particularly on the all-touch devices. I also think cursor management is poor. In both cases, both iOS and Android (in my experience) are better in that respect.

So IMHO, one of the key reasons why a certain vocal minority of people have remained so enamored of their old BBOS devices and trackpads for text editing is because the text editing UI on BB10 is not competitive with other modern all-touch UIs.

And while the "smart keyboard" of BB10 gets lots of praise, I find it creates lots of errors for me.

That's where I think the hardware keyboard would help - but I have not been very excited about the Q10, because among other things I think its screen is too small. Personally I'd rather have a 4:3 or 16:10 vertical screen like the old Torch, but with a better keyboard.

The other problem with BB10 IMHO is that it seems very poorly optimized for the small square screen devices, and it takes up way too much of the visible area with UI junk, making the screen seem even smaller than it is.

Those are all what I consider to be fairly easily-surmountable problems, not "showstoppers" for BB10.

And if you doubt that the people that want to go back to BBOS UI and trackpad are in a small minority, just check the comments on Crackberry's latest blog post, which is just the latest example of many.

I disagree and having used android os briefly, the touch typing inaccuracy is atrocious!!!!That alone for me failed badly!!! The constant backspacing to correct type was a huge time waster!


Posted via CB10

[world traveler and former ceo]

Miss my bold 9900 and the q10 did not do it for me (don't like the keyboard, for instance) so looking forward to the Classic!!!

Posted via CB10

[Guillin]

A fortnight ago I had a choice of either buying a Q10 or Z10 (both second hand, but "Grade A". I chose the Q10 and don't regret it. I love how it works.

Now with the Q20 rumoured to look like the Bold lines of old (if I have read that correctly), then I will be all over it when/if it's released in the UK. What's wrong with having a device built like a bold with an up to date touchscreen? Sign me up! Really hope it's released in the UK

[SamirSaxena]

I love my Z30. I love typing on it too. The keyboard is brilliant and auto correct I'd for smarter than the auto correct on iPhone (so to say!). But there are times when I miss my Bold 9900 or even 9700.

When are those times:

1. When I am editing a document. Track pad is more precise, more fast and more convenient in guiding the cursor to the right place in the document.

2. Typing long emails. I miss my qwerty when typing long emails/messages. Tapping on glass becomes tedious after sometime.

3. My fingers were so used to of the keys on my Bold 9900/9700 that I wouldn't even need to look on the screen what I was typing. Almost negligible typos.

4. There are times when accidently I hit the call button and the call goes to someone on my Z30. Physical call button will surely improve on that.

5. Track pad for time pass. I could move my fingers around on the trackpad and nothing will happen unless I press it in. A good time pass.

I am not sure I'll buy any of the phones being launched in near future, as I am extremely happy with my Z30 currently and would lik to use it at least for a year and half before I change my phone. But if I do decide to buy, It will be BlackBerry Classic for me.

Posted via CB10 on my Z30

[dwane32]

I can't understand why so much hate!
If BlackBerry said that all BlackBerry will have the belt thingie then would understand, but that's not the case, you have many other options. You have full touch screen, you have big full touch screen, touch screen with keyboard, and now keyboard with big screen and the belt. What other company gives you that many option????!!! Apple definitely doesn't, Samsung doesn't, HTC doesn't, Nokia doesn't, NOBODY ELSE DOES!!
So buy the device you like and STFU....
This is not directed at the OP but to ALL those who have been hating so much...

From my White Z30

100% agree BlackBerry is now giving vast options to consumers to get hooked on BB10 os....maybe down the road they can streamline products, buy options are great...but what you like folks

[desporterizer]

Its fairly obvious bb10 was designed primarily with touch inputs in mind. That's why I could not get down with the q10, my fingers had a hard time with gestures on such a small screen. Turned me off bb10 entirely till I tried it with the z10. That tool belt will bring all the folks holding on to their 9900 with a death grip into the BB10 fold.

[Carrtman]

People need to keep in mind that BB also has to open the API and the stupid gesture driven UI needs to be reduced for the classic to work as flawlessly as the bold 9900.
BB is doing the right thing here they are offering different options for different customers.

People should learn to buy the phone they like the most and stop that stupid fanboy behaviour, at the end each sold phone helps BlackBerry and that's the important thing.

[elgolfman]

1) It benefits BlackBerry because now users still on Legacy devices who have resisted BlackBerry 10 due to no toolbelt will be much more likely to upgrade. Some with the Q10 will also upgrade to the Q20.

2) If you read Kevin's interview posted last night, BlackBerry is going to also make qwerty keyboard phones without the toolbelt. They are just making different lines of phones - all touch, qwerty with no toolbelt, qwerty with toolbelt. The Q20 is to placate a segment of BlackBerry legacy owners who have resisted upgrading because they want the toolbelt, whether it is to answer/reject/hangup from a phone call without looking at the screen, or to use the trackpad for superior copy/paste ability.

Adding a toolbelt does not make the phone slow like Legacy device phones are.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

End call and superior cut/paste will be a huge benefit with the belt. The Q10 is horrible at that. Also, the phone should take priority when in use. Its difficult to hang up or when ringing/in process your calendar reminders pop up just as your are trying to press end call, etc.

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Its fairly obvious bb10 was designed primarily with touch inputs in mind. That's why I could not get down with the q10, my fingers had a hard time with gestures on such a small screen. Turned me off bb10 entirely till I tried it with the z10. That tool belt will bring all the folks holding on to their 9900 with a death grip into the BB10 fold.

If properly implemented, track pad affords single pixel precision without having to fit fingers on small screens.

[idssteve]

I personally believe that there are aspects of the old system that were better for editing text compared to BB10 as it currently exists.

I do not think that "any" form of touch UI is automatically inferior. I think what handicaps BB10 in particular is a poorly-implemented text editing UI.

In particular, I think text selection/copy/paste is poor, particularly on the all-touch devices. I also think cursor management is poor. In both cases, both iOS and Android (in my experience) are better in that respect.

So IMHO, one of the key reasons why a certain vocal minority of people have remained so enamored of their old BBOS devices and trackpads for text editing is because the text editing UI on BB10 is not competitive with other modern all-touch UIs.

And while the "smart keyboard" of BB10 gets lots of praise, I find it creates lots of errors for me.

That's where I think the hardware keyboard would help - but I have not been very excited about the Q10, because among other things I think its screen is too small. Personally I'd rather have a 4:3 or 16:10 vertical screen like the old Torch, but with a better keyboard.

The other problem with BB10 IMHO is that it seems very poorly optimized for the small square screen devices, and it takes up way too much of the visible area with UI junk, making the screen seem even smaller than it is.

Those are all what I consider to be fairly easily-surmountable problems, not "showstoppers" for BB10.

And if you doubt that the people that want to go back to BBOS UI and trackpad are in a small minority, just check the comments on Crackberry's latest blog post, which is just the latest example of many.

Compared to Appledroid BB itself is a tiny minority. Legacy BB is a majority of that minority, AFAIK. Check numbers and dates. Pretty clear to me market share started slowing with the Storm fiasco. Continued slowing thru early OS7 memory leak struggles and started sliding even faster while waiting 2 yrs for the Z10. Market share has TANKED since. That's my observation, fwiw.

BB sacrificed EVERYthing developing an OS to run gestures. Did it pay off? If Appledroiders aren't grabbing the mighty Z30, it seems pretty obvious appledroiders are not interested in BB no matter how much BB imitates apple. BB never infiltrated elementary classrooms like Apple and Google has. Sorry.

The Passport has a chance because it's weird enough to open Apple washed minds. Its also risky new tech. The risk of reliability or operational snafus is a possible reality with ANY new tech. BTDT.

I don't know what the solution is but abandoning existing customers has NOT helped. Alienating existing customers is NEVER the way to expand market share!!

Sorry, I'll trust sales numbers over "vocal minority" comments on CB blogs.

[boss_hog]

Compared to Appledroid BB itself is a tiny minority. Legacy BB is a majority of that minority, AFAIK. Check numbers and dates. Pretty clear to me market share started slowing with the Storm fiasco. Continued slowing thru early OS7 memory leak struggles and started sliding even faster while waiting 2 yrs for the Z10. Market share has TANKED since. That's my observation, fwiw.

BB sacrificed EVERYthing developing an OS to run gestures. Did it pay off? If Appledroiders aren't grabbing the mighty Z30, it seems pretty obvious appledroiders are not interested in BB no matter how much BB imitates apple. BB never infiltrated elementary classrooms like Apple and Google has. Sorry.

The Passport has a chance because it's weird enough to open Apple washed minds. Its also risky new tech. The risk of reliability or operational snafus is a possible reality with ANY new tech. BTDT.

I don't know what the solution is but abandoning existing customers has NOT helped. Alienating existing customers is NEVER the way to expand market share!!

Sorry, I'll trust sales numbers over "vocal minority" comments on CB blogs.

I believe blackberry screwed itself with those awful curves they came out with after the 8300 models. They dropped the flash off the camera and made them so cheap they were terrible. The bolds were great for there time but the curve was so popular at that point then they released that crap. By the time the delayed 9900 came out people lost interest. I remember people with signs demanding att to release the 9900. The Z10 was that all over again, both were great but so late

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

I believe blackberry screwed itself with those awful curves they came out with after the 8300 models. They dropped the flash off the camera and made them so cheap they were terrible. The bolds were great for there time but the curve was so popular at that point then they released that crap. By the time the delayed 9900 came out people lost interest. I remember people with signs demanding att to release the 9900. The Z10 was that all over again, both were great but so late

Posted via CB10

Too many times they've been two years behind the "Curve"... Lol. Pun intended. .

Q20 is two years too late, too. IMO. Including specs. How many S5s would Samsung sell if it came with Q20 specs?? Who honestly thinks spec-freek droiders would even consider trading their S5s for ANY BB with Q10 specs? Tool belt, or not. Closed minded marketing makes for closed markets.

[boss_hog]

Too many times they've been two years behind the "Curve"... Lol. Pun intended. .

Q20 is two years too late, too. IMO. Including specs. How many S5s would Samsung sell if it came with Q20 specs?? Who honestly thinks spec-freek droiders would even consider trading their S5s for ANY BB with Q10 specs? Tool belt, or not. Closed minded marketing makes for closed markets.

Agreed but on a side note. I have used 2 different s5 checking them out and when you get into pushing it I couldn't believe how laggy they were. There awful. I was on the 3rd floor of a vacation beach house trying to use a family members to look up something important on one instance and I walked myself all the way to my truck and got my Z10 because it made me so pissed. I went into a store to check the next one out because I thought hers was defective. Same story there. You couldn't give me one of those although I dig the metal

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Agreed but on a side note. I have used 2 different s5 checking them out and when you get into pushing it I couldn't believe how laggy they were. There awful. I was on the 3rd floor of a vacation beach house trying to use a family members to look up something important on one instance and I walked myself all the way to my truck and got my Z10 because it made me so pissed. I went into a store to check the next one out because I thought hers was defective. Same story there. You couldn't give me one of those although I dig the metal

Posted via CB10

Looking around it is sounding like S5 has an issue of some kind. Just goes to show... Horsepower, missapplied, doesn't necessarily win the race. It does seem to win sales with certain crowds. Useful or not.

[th.1977]

Looking around it is sounding like S5 has an issue of some kind. Just goes to show... Horsepower, missapplied, doesn't necessarily win the race. It does seem to win sales with certain crowds. Useful or not.

it sure does. just look at all the ppl here crying about the classics specs. nevermind that it runs smooth, the specs suck so the phone is a fail



Sent from my BlackBerry 9320 using Tapatalk