[Omnitech]

[Nothing to quote]

You realize when you use the followup feature on the website or in CB10 to respond to a previous post, but then add your comments INSIDE of the quoted section, that it makes it impossible to followup to YOUR comments the same way?

I had to make a bunch of manual edits to make this post.



Omnitech wrote:

Does the potential revenue justify the cost of designing and producing it?

Foxconn is taking the risk.

It still costs a significant amount of money and man-hours to conceptualize, design, QA, package, ship, market and support such a device. Foxconn is hardly doing 100% of that. If they were, it would not be a BlackBerry product, it would be a Foxconn product with their own logo on it.




Omnitech wrote:

Will it be another half-*ssed product that, for example, has such poor OS support that the potential benefits of the buttons and trackpad are squandered?

Like the Z10?

What is your point? I have 2 Z10s and they work just fine.

Whereas I think the BB10 OS is not well-optimized for the Q10, and it's not yet clear that it will be for the Q20 either.

[jdcfinisher]

When BB10 came out its was missing lots of features. Gradually they have been bringing them back, some because customers demanded them. The belt is simply a major feature they are restoring. In their zeal to produce a new phone and OS they went with an all touch OS then with customer demand brought back the keyboard. But did it half assed the way BlackBerry usually does things and left off the belt. Now they restoring it for the true BlackBerry experience without the bugs and problems of the older OS . For those who like things half assed there is the Q10.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

When BB10 came out its was missing lots of features. Gradually they have been bringing them back, some because customers demanded them. The belt is simply a major feature they are restoring. In their zeal to produce a new phone and OS they went with an all touch OS then with customer demand brought back the keyboard. But did it half assed the way BlackBerry usually does things and left off the belt. Now they restoring it for the true BlackBerry experience

Actually the strategy was perfectly understandable.

It was important for the company to present the new generation devices as a clean break from their legacy technology, because their previous generation of devices had become a laughing-stock in the industry due to their poor performance and lack of media-friendly features.

The whole world was going full touchscreen and they were destroying BlackBerry's marketshare with these full touch devices.

So, BlackBerry produced a full touch device, with a new OS revolving around a new all-touch gesture-based paradigm.

If they had initially introduced something that instead looked just like their old devices, BB10 would probably have flopped even faster than it did.

In reality, most people that bought BB10 devices bought touchscreen devices, even after the Q10 and Q5 came out.

The physical keyboard is not going to "save" BlackBerry. Making BB10 compelling, bug-free, on-time, with competitive price and performance, and effectively communicating and marketing these things to the public, will.

That's after they work on their MDM and enterprise solutions a bit and stem the hemmoraging in that division somewhat.

[Bbnivende]

Actually the strategy was perfectly understandable.

It was important for the company to present the new generation devices as a clean break from their legacy technology, because their previous generation of devices had become a laughing-stock in the industry due to their poor performance and lack of media-friendly features.

The whole world was going full touchscreen and they were destroying BlackBerry's marketshare with these full touch devices.

So, BlackBerry produced a full touch device, with a new OS revolving around a new all-touch gesture-based paradigm.

If they had initially introduced something that instead looked just like their old devices, BB10 would probably have flopped even faster than it did.

In reality, most people that bought BB10 devices bought touchscreen devices, even after the Q10 and Q5 came out.

The physical keyboard is not going to "save" BlackBerry. Making BB10 compelling, bug-free, on-time, with competitive price and performance, and effectively communicating and marketing these things to the public, will.

That's after they work on their MDM and enterprise solutions a bit and stem the hemmoraging in that division somewhat.

BlackBerry has sold so few BB10 phones does it matter whether the Z sold more than a Q ? As you know, physical keyboard BlackBerry phones are still out selling the Z phones by a large margin. They probably want to sell the large number of Z phones in stock before they build a new up spec'd model.

Speaking as a legacy owner , I have lots of choices if I want an all touch phone and a Z model is well down the list. If I decide that I want a keyboard phone then my first choice would be a BlackBerry slider (if they make one) or the Q20.

I am not sure that either the Q or the Z will find traction with the enterprise market. Possibly , BlackBerry may offer the Z with deep discounts to the Enterprise market.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[Omnitech]

BlackBerry has sold so few BB10 phones does it matter whether the Z sold more than a Q ?

Of course it does, if you're trying to argue that customers are clamoring for PKB devices.

As you know, physical keyboard BlackBerry phones are still out selling the Z phones by a large margin.

No, legacy BBOS devices are outselling ALL BB10 devices by a large margin - and maybe not that large any more either.

Speaking as a legacy owner, I have lots of choices if I want an all touch phone and a Z model is well down the list.

And I'm a legacy owner too. Not sure what special status that confers on me though.

The difference is that those devices are not BlackBerries, of course. I could have - much more easily - purchased an Android or an iOS device when I purchased my Z10s. I didn't buy the BlackBerries because someone threw them in my lap.

If I decide that I want a keyboard phone then my first choice would be a BlackBerry slider (if they make one) or the Q20.

I would consider those too - though the slider would have to be a better keyboard than what the Torch had. (Don't even ask me about the horrible thing Palm made with WebOS, that was a truly horrible slider keyboard. And I really dislike horizontal sliders - used to have one of those too.)

[LLAmos]

I'm unbelievably annoyed that people are annoyed.

Ever have someone at, say, a Starbucks, walk up and tell you that you're Dell isn't cool because it isn't an Apple or your Blackberry, well, anything isn't an iPhone or an Android. "Why," they demand to know, "would you use tech like that?" I have. My answer is always the same: The cellphone or laptop market isn't based solely on you.

Same here. The keyboard market--even among BlackBerry users--isn't monolithic. We're a varied bunch and if you don't want to get the phone, don't. Just shut up about it lest you kill it for the rest of us.

My hands are small and I can't safely hold that phone and do anything in the top right portion of the phone. Selecting text isn't easy like it was with the trackball. I want a trackpad.

I just don't think everyone else should want one as well.

[Atmarix]

Is this still going? What in hell?!

From my White Z30

[Omnitech]

Is this still going? What in hell?!

Yes, it's an "unbelievably annoying" thread.

[Joao Oliveira]

I can't understand why so much hate!
If BlackBerry said that all BlackBerry will have the belt thingie then would understand, but that's not the case, you have many other options. You have full touch screen, you have big full touch screen, touch screen with keyboard, and now keyboard with big screen and the belt. What other company gives you that many option????!!! Apple definitely doesn't, Samsung doesn't, HTC doesn't, Nokia doesn't, NOBODY ELSE DOES!!
So buy the device you like and STFU....
This is not directed at the OP but to ALL those who have been hating so much...

From my White Z30

You got it spot on... I can't understand people like the one that created this topic that simply complain FOR HAVING MORE CHOICES!!!! Nobody removed the other type of devices without the belt, so why the hate? Sports cars are also a "niche" market, does that mena that everybody should end the production of those aswell?

I too have the Q10, and miss the belt keys.

[slagman5]

You got it spot on... I can't understand people like the one that created this topic that simply complain FOR HAVING MORE CHOICES!!!! Nobody removed the other type of devices without the belt, so why the hate? Sports cars are also a "niche" market, does that mena that everybody should end the production of those aswell?

I too have the Q10, and miss the belt keys.

You joke, but there are those that think sports cars should not be made because they don't like them...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Omnitech]

You joke, but there are those that think sports cars should not be made because they don't like them...

And unfortunately you are engaging in a bit of exaggeration yourself, there.

Yes, there are people like what you describe.

But there are also people like myself who critique the companies decisions not just because we do or do not like some product they may decide to produce, but because we might feel that they may just be making bad business decisions. (e.g., designing, building and marketing a product that will not sell, etc.)

Just to review, here is what I wrote in this thread 3 days ago about my position on it - note that NONE of this pertains to how much I "personally like" the proposed device:

The real issues for me - and this is from a person that would actually consider owning a Q20 - are:

• Does the potential revenue justify the cost of designing and producing it?
• Does it undermine the company's platform message going forward?
• Is it worth more to the company in terms of direct sales and impact on the company's reputation and platform message than simply producing a truly killer all-touchscreen model that would likely have a vastly broader mainstream appeal? (Does it siphon corporate resources away from such a potentially much more popular product?)
• Will it be another half-*ssed product that, for example, has such poor OS support that the potential benefits of the buttons and trackpad are squandered?
• Will it be another highly-delayed product that misses its marketing window of opportunity?
• Will its hardware spec be hopelessly outdated the day it becomes available?

[Bbnivende]

Of course it does, if you're trying to argue that customers are clamoring for PKB devices.






No, legacy BBOS devices are outselling ALL BB10 devices by a large margin - and maybe not that large any more either.






And I'm a legacy owner too. Not sure what special status that confers on me though.

The difference is that those devices are not BlackBerries, of course. I could have - much more easily - purchased an Android or an iOS device when I purchased my Z10s. I didn't buy the BlackBerries because someone threw them in my lap.





I would consider those too - though the slider would have to be a better keyboard than what the Torch had. (Don't even ask me about the horrible thing Palm made with WebOS, that was a truly horrible slider keyboard. And I really dislike horizontal sliders - used to have one of those too.)

Presumably, BB-Foxconn have decided that the Z3/Q20 are the number 1 and 2 devices to be made at this time. It is their "skin in the game" . Only they can know the amount of unsold inventory by model and the potential for selling more of any new devices at this time. It is also a case of logistics and technical competency - which models can they get to the marketplace soonest.

[JAS0NB0URNE]

And unfortunately you are engaging in a bit of exaggeration yourself, there.

Yes, there are people like what you describe.

But there are also people like myself who critique the companies decisions not just because we do or do not like some product they may decide to produce, but because we might feel that they may just be making bad business decisions. (e.g., designing, building and marketing a product that will not sell, etc.)

Just to review, here is what I wrote in this thread 3 days ago about my position on it - note that NONE of this pertains to how much I "personally like" the proposed device:

It is fair to question if they are making a good or bad business decision; I just defer to John Chen's judgment. And while I have seen a lot of hate (I don't recall seeing any "why the z10/z30/z3 is so unbelievably annoying" threads, I have also seen a lot of posts on CB for people wanting the trackpad and function keys row back.

I am not naive to think that the CB community represents all BlackBerry owners, so it is hard to quantify the CB posts, but John Chen has made his rounds and undoubtedly had some data behind the decision to create this new line of phones. As I said, I will defer to his judgment. I happen to agree with him that BlackBerry needs to retain those still on Legacy devices, and really just needs to keep the whole base. Every quarter the BlackBerry market share goes down and something needs to reverse that trend. We will see if the Q20 helps that cause.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

[arlene_t]

Can they just not add a virtual trackpad we can hide and unhide? Or we just all need to get used to what it is now in bb10 and they can improve it better. For some reason I find this circle annoying although I know it severs a purpose but sometimes when I drag it I can't see my cursor cos my thumb is slightly covering it.



via Q10

[JAS0NB0URNE]

Can they just not add a virtual trackpad we can hide and unhide? The trackpad for me was useful when I copy and paste. The circle thing it takes me a few seconds longer to do compared to trackpad.



via Q10

That would not satisfy the very people these phones are being developed for; people who want to answer/reject/hangup phone calls without looking at the phone by using physical buttons, people who want the physical trackpad for editing/copying text.

I do think they should develop such an app for Q10 users and future Q devices without the physical trackpad and function keys, as well as obviously the Z owners.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

[Pete The Penguin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it has that ******** three-row keyboard, I'm definitely sticking with the Q10. Hopefully if it appears on anything it'll be to the successor to the Q10 and not the Classic line. I hope by Classic they are also referring to the keyboard.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

There's no way I'll buy a Q20 with only a three-row keyboard!!

We need genuine pics to help us decide.

[Pete The Penguin]

It won't, it will have the "blackberry patented keyboard" as said in the press release.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

*re-reads the press release*

[gabbleratchet]

The press release isn't specific enough to rule out a three-row keyboard.

It mentions sculpted keys and frets between the keys. Nothing about the layout.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid

Posted via CB10

[TheScionicMan]

You got it spot on... I can't understand people like the one that created this topic that simply complain FOR HAVING MORE CHOICES!!!! Nobody removed the other type of devices without the belt, so why the hate? Sports cars are also a "niche" market, does that mena that everybody should end the production of those aswell?

I too have the Q10, and miss the belt keys.

So the new standard at CB is that you can only talk about a product IF you love it and plan to buy it? I bet I can go through everyone's post history and find a post where you were negative or critical of some BBRY product. Does that make everyone a "hater"?

There's several threads about a possible PlayBook 2. There are people posting that they don't think it is a good idea, but they aren't labeled as "PlayBook haters". Why are the Q20 admirers so caught up on what the detractors might say? They already announced the phone, some negative reactions on CB isn't going to change that. Relax

[waterfrontmgmt]

I think the issue is that if you don't care for this phone, why hang out here to keep bashing it? Maybe some people just have too much time on their hands.

So the new standard at CB is that you can only talk about a product IF you love it and plan to buy it? I bet I can go through everyone's post history and find a post where you were negative or critical of some BBRY product. Does that make everyone a "hater"?

There's several threads about a possible PlayBook 2. There are people posting that they don't think it is a good idea, but they aren't labeled as "PlayBook haters". Why are the Q20 admirers so caught up on what the detractors might say? They already announced the phone, some negative reactions on CB isn't going to change that. Relax

[TheScionicMan]

I think the issue is that if you don't care for this phone, why hang out here to keep bashing it? Maybe some people just have too much time on their hands.

Last time I checked, this thread was FOR people that are annoyed by the phone. Perhaps there are other threads where you could hang out that more suit your level of like for this phone...

[waterfrontmgmt]

This is a Q20 Forum with a thread about being annoyed by a phone that nobody here has ever seen. I don't have a level of "like" because I haven't seen the phone yet. Some people have a hard time understanding the hate.

Last time I checked, this thread was FOR people that are annoyed by the phone. Perhaps there are other threads where you could hang out that more suit your level of like for this phone...

[slagman5]

So the new standard at CB is that you can only talk about a product IF you love it and plan to buy it? I bet I can go through everyone's post history and find a post where you were negative or critical of some BBRY product. Does that make everyone a "hater"?

There's several threads about a possible PlayBook 2. There are people posting that they don't think it is a good idea, but they aren't labeled as "PlayBook haters". Why are the Q20 admirers so caught up on what the detractors might say? They already announced the phone, some negative reactions on CB isn't going to change that. Relax

*facepalm*

Um, no, that's not what any of us are saying. Ask waterfront, I'm usually the one on here complaining about missing features and what-not. The point we're trying to make is that the introduction of this device doesn't negatively affect those who are complaining. When I mention things I'm not satisfied with, it is things that we have no other choice but to have to go through using the BB10 device. Meaning features missing from the OS, the ways it behaves that might hinder our experience, etc. With the Q20, it's merely one product in their line-up of devices. All of this complaining about the belt is pointless because they will still release products without the belt if that's what you prefer. So why does it somehow bother you that other people with different opinions and priorities will ALSO get what they want? Pay attention to yourself, your own needs, wants, and priorities. If BlackBerry announces something that affects ALL of their phones, or makes an announcement about the phone that you WOULD be interested in buying, THEN feel free to voice your displeasure all day long... But why whine and cry about a phone you will never buy?? Just wait for their announcement for the next phone without the feature you don't like...

[kbz1960]

*facepalm*

Um, no, that's not what any of us are saying. Ask waterfront, I'm usually the one on here complaining about missing features and what-not. The point we're trying to make is that the introduction of this device doesn't negatively affect those who are complaining. When I mention things I'm not satisfied with, it is things that we have no other choice but to have to go through using the BB10 device. Meaning features missing from the OS, the ways it behaves that might hinder our experience, etc. With the Q20, it's merely one product in their line-up of devices. All of this complaining about the belt is pointless because they will still release products without the belt if that's what you prefer. So why does it somehow bother you that other people with different opinions and priorities will ALSO get what they want? Pay attention to yourself, your own needs, wants, and priorities. If BlackBerry announces something that affects ALL of their phones, or makes an announcement about the phone that you WOULD be interested in buying, THEN feel free to voice your displeasure all day long... But why whine and cry about a phone you will never buy?? Just wait for their announcement for the next phone without the feature you don't like...

I don't think humans will change. Hasn't this gone on thru the ages? But yes, I get what you're saying. So all those wanting the belt and complaining in the Z10 threads should be here now to complain instead of complaining about something they didn't have?

[waterfrontmgmt]

I would think people that like the Z10 would be hanging out in the Z10 forum. People that like the Q10, in the Q10 forum.

Again, if you don't like a phone, why waste time hanging out in that forum and bashing it? Does that not seem a little childish?

I don't think humans will change. Hasn't this gone on thru the ages? But yes, I get what you're saying. So all those wanting the belt and complaining in the Z10 threads should be here now to complain instead of complaining about something they didn't have?