[RJB55]

Ok, so I'm "unbelievably annoyed" not mad. And that unbelievable level of annoyance doesn't come from other people getting what they want, it comes from the timing of this phone and IN MY OPINION the somewhat capitulating message a phone that brings back something that BlackBerry was so confident about a year ago we wouldn't need anymore.
SQN100-3; 10.2.1.2102

Frankly a year ago BBRY couldn't find its *ss with both hands and a flashlight. Chen is listening to his customers, Heiny didn't do well in this area, and others, unfortunately.

The reasons I didn't buy the Q10 was that it took away what to me are some of the best features of my 9930 and imo BB10 wasn't nearly ready for prime time at launch. BB10 is much better now as an OS by all indicators and I'll upgrade to the Q20 when it becomes available on my carrier.

[Eupathic Impulse]

Um, let's see...the premise is based on "I want and need my productivity function buttons". the argument then continues with "so if BlackBerry won't give me those then I will change to a platform that **does not** have those". You don't see anything twisted about that? What's the motivator here, spite?

No, the argument continues with, "so if BlackBerry won't give me those then I will change to a platform that has **some other** feature that I might also have wanted, even if it were only part of my second tier of choices."

Then you might ask: why not BB10? And the answer is: the set of **other features** that BB10 devices have are not in that second tier of preferences, but the first tier of preferences (trackpad, etc) have been abolished.

It's not spite. It's choosing the most optimal solution at the time. "If I can't have the call end button, then I will have native Netflix and real Instagram." It's entirely rational. Many people are not in love with their devices, they're in love with the way they use their devices.

[Eupathic Impulse]

No, the argument continues with, "so if BlackBerry won't give me those then I will change to a platform that has **some other** feature that I might also have wanted, even if it were only part of my second tier of choices."

Then you might ask: why not BB10? And the answer is: the set of **other features** that BB10 devices have are not in that second tier of preferences, but the first tier of preferences (trackpad, etc) have been abolished.

It's not spite. It's choosing the most optimal solution at the time. "If I can't have the call end button, then I will have native Netflix and real Instagram." It's entirely rational. Many people are not in love with their devices, they're in love with the way they use their devices.

I mean, why is it so hard to see that people are capable of making complex tradeoffs of functionality, and in fact most users are doing so? I know iPhone users who still miss the BB trackpad from when they owned a BB. But they switched to iPhone. This is hardly a contradiction: it's just filling your basket with another set of goodies, since the things you want are sold out.

[kbz1960]

I mean, why is it so hard to see that people are capable of making complex tradeoffs of functionality, and in fact most users are doing so? I know iPhone users who still miss the BB trackpad from when they owned a BB. But they switched to iPhone. This is hardly a contradiction: it's just filling your basket with another set of goodies, since the things you want are sold out.

Sorry, comes from reading it in here so much over the years. If BBRY doesn't add or keep "whatever" I'm changing to something else that doesn't have "whatever" either. You're using a BBRY now so it's assumed you don't care about apps.

[jegs2]

Choice is good.

[Eupathic Impulse]

Sorry, comes from reading it in here so much over the years. If BBRY doesn't add or keep "whatever" I'm changing to something else that doesn't have "whatever" either. You're using a BBRY now so it's assumed you don't care about apps.

Or, you care about a BBOS feature MORE than you care about apps, which you care about MORE than you care about a different BB10 feature. When the BBOS feature goes away, you still care more about apps than you did about the BB10 feature, but apps just moved to the top of the priority queue.

[kbz1960]

Or, you care about a BBOS feature MORE than you care about apps, which you care about MORE than you care about a different BB10 feature. When the BBOS feature goes away, you still care more about apps than you did about the BB10 feature, but apps just moved to the top of the priority queue.

Understandable. What are you using now?

[slagman5]

I'm mind blown, not only that they're making a Q20, but rumours of a whole "classic" product line! This would be like iPhone offering consumers an iPhone that has the original black and white screen that the iPods first had. All the joy of the new OS on a B&W screen. Can you imagine the FLOP that that would be?!

BlackBerry. For the love of all the saints, Jesus, Mary, and everything else that is holy, Bb10 is a good thing! Stick to your guns and instead of back stepping on the gestures by adding physical buttons, enhance the gesture system more!

Daily Old Radio Shows! The only Channel that actually offers you a source for entertainment. C0012487D

Wow, not to be mean, but what an incredibly stupid comparison. There is absolutely no backwards direction in technology here. They are ADDING a feature into the phone. They are not REPLACING a current feature with an older one. It will still have a modern touchscreen, it will still have a modern CPU, a modern OS, everything will be "new" just with a new interface OPTION in the case that you want to use it. What more is that they will also have other devices that won't have this feature and will be like the other BB10 devices out there... Completely different than your comparison, lol.

[CharlieV]

The keyboard and trackpad of Blackberry devices are THE most important hardware innovations that sustained RIM, Anyone who wants to continue to buy Blackberry devices after their current ones quit should be glad that they are back, IMHO. As a poster above said, if you don't like it, don't get one. Hopefully more people will buy them than not, and Blackberry will claw back some of its market share so that those who appreciate Blackberry's hardware/software/ecosystem approach will have future generations of devices to choose from.

[Eupathic Impulse]

Understandable. What are you using now?

I am actually using BB10 (a Q10), because I have a different priority order than the people who care more about apps than the Gesture Dogma. For me the return of the trackpad is the return of a missing feature, making BB10 devices even better, if it is implemented well, of course. But I am fully cognizant of people with other priority orders. (Such as, for example, "BIS" > using what your friends have > Hub. Or even, QNX > trackpad > apps. The world is large. What BB/Chen has apparently discovered is that Belt > apps > Gestures is the priority order of a large segment of its existing market.)

[RubberChicken76]

The second reason is the fact that BES10 was not and still is not truly ready. I even saw this first hand in my company.

What are the specific feature limitations you experienced? In my last company, the reason they didn't go with BES 10 was because they felt ActiveSync for the BB10 devices was good enough for their needs.

Sadly, it is these corporate users that make up the largest percentage of legacy devices.

As much as BlackBerry has that reputation of being used mostly by "business users", I remember seeing a presentation or two that suggested the bulk of their audience was actually the consumer, particularly outside North America. Even at its peak, something like less than 1 in 4 BlackBerry users globally was connected to a BES Power of BBM. :-) But the corporate audience is more sticky for them (long term contracts) and more lucrative due to the service revenue on older devices. I get why they're focusing on it as a smaller company to keep the lights on, while figuring out the next steps.

[RubberChicken76]

You have 2 choices of iPhone, 5C and 5S
(couldn't resist)

Plus 4S (free) and different size configrations. :-P

[Pete The Penguin]

That's my view. I wouldn't care about the trackpad personally, but the poll on CrackBerry suggests a decent number of BlackBerry people want this. If it helps get more of the tens of millions of legacy customers onto BlackBerry 10, great! I don't have to buy it as there are other choices out there and more coming.

Certainly don't get the need for the melodrama. Don't like it, don't buy it. :-) Why spoil the fun for Belfast and co? :-P

Well said. I'm sick of the "I don't like it so you shouldn't buy it" mentality.

People need to respect the choices of others.
Thank you for common sense.

[daniel sai]

Lol

Posted via CB10

[dejanh]

What are the specific feature limitations you experienced? In my last company, the reason they didn't go with BES 10 was because they felt ActiveSync for the BB10 devices was good enough for their needs.



As much as BlackBerry has that reputation of being used mostly by "business users", I remember seeing a presentation or two that suggested the bulk of their audience was actually the consumer, particularly outside North America. Even at its peak, something like less than 1 in 4 BlackBerry users globally was connected to a BES Power of BBM. :-) But the corporate audience is more sticky for them (long term contracts) and more lucrative due to the service revenue on older devices. I get why they're focusing on it as a smaller company to keep the lights on, while figuring out the next steps.

I'm not really able to provide much more detail on why BES10 was inadequate. I'm on the business-strategic side, not in IT. However, from my recollection there were issues around application management, specifically issues with acquiring and pushing applications that came down to the licensing tiers (BlackBerry wanted our IT to upgrade to $70 licenses to get *some* of the required functionality back). Also, I remember the IT guys grumbling about the fact that they had to manage older and newer BlackBerry devices with separate rules, requiring double the time to set up, etc. There were more issues than this too and the overall cost and complexity of the migration put off the senior management who pulled the plug. The users themselves loved the BlackBerry 10 devices. A number of sales guys were actually commenting on how much better the Q10 and the Z10 were than even their own personal devices (iPhones and Galaxy phones). The most vocal were the legacy BlackBerry users who saw the new devices as being 10-fold more productive than the old, despite some minor quirks. Quite a contrasting experience to what is being talked about as the reason for the Q20 introduction.

As for the second point, I probably should have been more clear. In North America majority presence is in corporate. The consumer base has all but disappeared. Overseas, especially Asia, BlackBerry is bigger with the consumers because of BIS and the associated low-cost messaging capabilities. Neither of those problems are addressed with the Q20, so the question remains, who is this device targeting exactly?

Oh and just as a side-note, I wrote this whole post on a Z30, without a single edit.


Posted via CB10

[freedomx20a]

What's different is if the classic BlackBerry becomes a big seller relatively speaking then the Q10 will become the oddball. It'll make it seem like a mistake.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.2141

Well Q10 sales are already a huge flop. Hence the belts return.

? BlackBerry Q10 ?

[LarsBB]

I think BlackBerry is doing exactly what they should do. They are giving us 3 options :
1. full touch
2. touch+keyboard
3. touch+keyboard+track pad

We should appreciate the fact that the company is listening to customers and is building phones as they ask for. Probably soon they will have a slider phone too.

Why we see all this complaining is because some people with the Q10 or Q5 have no patience and they want to see the next upgraded Q10 style phone already and they hate to see they will have to wait a little longer.

Visit my BBM Channel C000E96F6

Agreed. They realised how to reach the max. number of customers as I dont believe they will be a successful competitor if they were offering only full touchscreen phones


Posted with my Q10 on 10.2.1.537

[kbz1960]

I am actually using BB10 (a Q10), because I have a different priority order than the people who care more about apps than the Gesture Dogma. For me the return of the trackpad is the return of a missing feature, making BB10 devices even better, if it is implemented well, of course. But I am fully cognizant of people with other priority orders. (Such as, for example, "BIS" > using what your friends have > Hub. Or even, QNX > trackpad > apps. The world is large. What BB/Chen has apparently discovered is that Belt > apps > Gestures is the priority order of a large segment of its existing market.)

True. I just hope they don't make too many again and then have another pile of phones in a warehouse to write down again.

[Iggy City]

It's not a waste of money to create a device that there's obvious demand for.

They didn't just sit there and all of sudden someone stood up and said "....lets bring back the buttons!". Chen proclaimed many times that that's what their customers/corporate customers want, therefore they are going to listen.

[deadcowboy]

The Gestures DO NOT RENDER the toolbelt useless.

This is typical of a non-bb core user who has never had a belt.

-no more accidental calls
-can answer and drop calls 1 handed no look. *you know youve done this many times when you forgot your phone on in important situations* boom off in 1 second with no eyes.
-back button is close to the keyboard...wont slow down typing as you stay in position as you type. *THIS IS HUGE*
-editing on the Q10 feels like a HUGE SPEED BUMP. using track pad will speed it up dramatically and while still in the typing position. *your hands*
-easier to get to hub with 1 touch of the menu button now. then swipe down *via trackpad* to text and boom start typing. All while still in the typing position.

The Q20 only aids in the bb10 design. Can the OS be fine without it? yes. I love my q10. But can the OS be used faster and more efficient in some situations. THATS A HELL YES!

Thank you for writing this. It's a worthwhile list, and hopefully it will sway some close-minded people. I've been praying for a trackpad/endkey Q10 since day 1, and now I'm as excited as I've ever been for a phone.

[waterfrontmgmt]

If you are a hater here...guess what? You are not Blackberry's core market. So how would you be able to judge? You are not qualified.

Also, if you are a Crackberry member, you are not Blackberry's core market. We make up a small % of Blackberry users.

[Xadion]

Having a pre3 and pre2 and pre1 lol, I think maybe there should be a gesture area such as the previous, with a home button.

Real keys are always better than virtual.

Also you guys think BB10 is full gesture, lol. It's still a mixed bag, WebOS was the closest to full gesture controlled and mavigation.


Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

I tend not to take advice from people immature enough to take my write up and mock it because they disagree.

SQN100-3; 10.2.1.2102

They did not mock you.

[matt4pack]

Most people still use a keyboard and mouse to get real work done which a touchscreen just can't replace.

The same is true with mobile as well which makes this a welcome change.

Posted via CB10

[JCMM]

take a look at the real Q20 design: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-sense-910090/