[dayno25]

You realise the Q20 Classic is a budget range foxconn device, right?

A high end successor to the Q10 is still as yet unannounced. No need to complain about the Q20 - it's simply not targeted towards you. Wait for the high end (Q30?) and then make your judgement.

People need to realize that BlackBerry is targeting multiple markets. The Z3 and Q20 are aimed at the low end market. High end is coming. Have patience

I tend not to take advice from people immature enough to take my write up and mock it because they disagree.

SQN100-3; 10.2.1.2102

[dayno25]

It gives more options for those who want it. I'm sorry it makes you mad that other people with other preferences will ALSO get what they want and it's not only you getting exactly what you want...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Ok, so I'm "unbelievably annoyed" not mad. And that unbelievable level of annoyance doesn't come from other people getting what they want, it comes from the timing of this phone and IN MY OPINION the somewhat capitulating message a phone that brings back something that BlackBerry was so confident about a year ago we wouldn't need anymore.


SQN100-3; 10.2.1.2102

[Anilu7]

This ^

To the legacy BBOS users, the belt is irreplaceable.

While I have (and love) both a Z10 and a Q10, when I pick up a 9900 and use the trackpad it is like being with a dear friend again. The ease of selecting a point or letter on the screen cannot be matched by the BB10 'circle'. I've gotten used to the call/end call swipes but a button to push is more natural as this is what is done with landline phones, which are handled every day both at workand at home (unless you've gotten rid of the home landline). At any rate, as others have posted, if you don't want one, don't buy one. Simple. Why hate on another BlackBerry? It's just as silly as me hating on someone's Z30 because I prefer the Q10.

[jpvj]

1) It benefits BlackBerry because now users still on Legacy devices who have resisted BlackBerry 10 due to no toolbelt will be much more likely to upgrade. Some with the Q10 will also upgrade to the Q20.

2) If you read Kevin's interview posted last night, BlackBerry is going to also make qwerty keyboard phones without the toolbelt. They are just making different lines of phones - all touch, qwerty with no toolbelt, qwerty with toolbelt. The Q20 is to placate a segment of BlackBerry legacy owners who have resisted upgrading because they want the toolbelt, whether it is to answer/reject/hangup from a phone call without looking at the screen, or to use the trackpad for superior copy/paste ability.

Adding a toolbelt does not make the phone slow like Legacy device phones are.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

I completely agree. Even though a lot of "us" have moved on and don't miss either keys or trackpad/keybelt there is a group of users, that BB want's to keep.

I assume they are a quite conservative group, and the upgrade to BB10 is a little bit easier to sell, if they can use the phone and navigation as they are used to.

For everybody else missing the keyboard only: Slider!
(allthough it sucks from a mechanical point of view. It's hard to make it last)

[gnirkatto]

Ok, so I'm "unbelievably annoyed" not mad. And that unbelievable level of annoyance doesn't come from other people getting what they want, it comes from the timing of this phone and IN MY OPINION the somewhat capitulating message a phone that brings back something that BlackBerry was so confident about a year ago we wouldn't need anymore.


SQN100-3; 10.2.1.2102

Vendor: "I have something new for you here, you won't need the old stuff any longer"
Customer: "meh I don't like that"
Vendor, 6 months later: "wouldn't you like to reconsider? Here is even more new stuff."
Customer: "meh, still don't like"
Vendor, 12 months later: "I'll give you my new stuff but apply some of the old features that you liked so much, OK?"
Customer: "sounds interesting, show me!"

I'm not calling this capitulating but adjusting a strategy to user demands. Happens every day in the industry. Forever sticking to a strategy that turned out not to be good for everyone doesn't pay the stockholder's bills.

[campbecw]

I'm mind blown, not only that they're making a Q20, but rumours of a whole "classic" product line! This would be like iPhone offering consumers an iPhone that has the original black and white screen that the iPods first had. All the joy of the new OS on a B&W screen. Can you imagine the FLOP that that would be?!

BlackBerry. For the love of all the saints, Jesus, Mary, and everything else that is holy, Bb10 is a good thing! Stick to your guns and instead of back stepping on the gestures by adding physical buttons, enhance the gesture system more!

Daily Old Radio Shows! The only Channel that actually offers you a source for entertainment. C0012487D

[southlander]

My stars, what drama. Had BlackBerry done this at the initial release of BB10 phones would all the upset people ***** and moan back then? Probably not, they'd hail it as a pure genius coup. What's so different now?

What's different is if the classic BlackBerry becomes a big seller relatively speaking then the Q10 will become the oddball. It'll make it seem like a mistake.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.2141

[codiak]

Maybe they will integrate it with the screen, did anyone think of that?

If you are a PlayBook owner and have used the remote control pad you will know what I am going on about..

[gnirkatto]

What's different is if the classic BlackBerry becomes a big seller relatively speaking then the Q10 will become the oddball. It'll make it seem like a mistake.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.2141

Yeah but would that be a problem? They would have a big seller then, finally.
And BB10 will not become irrelevant, as the Classics will remain being based on it.
I personally believe that the Classic will be a transition tool for the portion of the 70m+ legacy users, who refrained from a transition due to the absence of the belt. In the long run, BB10 "pure" will survive as the main or only platform, I think. But if Classic survives as a niche product (as long as it pays off economically), or maybe even as the main product (less likely), why not?
So many great tech companies made mistakes and corrected them later on.

[Eupathic Impulse]

Exactly. It's like people would rather assume BlackBerry's reasoning and ignore what BlackBerry is actually saying. I don't get it. I have never had a full KB BlackBerry, so I really don't have any preference either way. But I do know is this, the KB Crowd has got to be the most complicated group I've ever read about and I think BlackBerry is doing the right thing here. Cater to different types of KB diehards. That's really the only way it's gonna work. Choice. Just leave buttons off my Z30 thanks.

This. Many of us keyboard/button fans have (or had, when I had a Bold -- I now have a Q10) a very optimized, specific way of working with their device. The folks who demand that we all adapt to the Gesture Dogma don't understand how frustrating it can be for some people to lose that and that one of BBs advantages is that it allows that kind of personal "workflow optimization". There are some improvements in BB10 like the Hub, but for many people, losing key elements of how they work is a dealbreaker---might as well get access to Netflix on iPhone then, if there are NO options that use the classic BB paradigm.

John Chen seems to know what he's doing here.

[gnirkatto]

This. Many of us keyboard/button fans have (or had, when I had a Bold -- I now have a Q10) a very optimized, specific way of working with their device. The folks who demand that we all adapt to the Gesture Dogma don't understand how frustrating it can be for some people to lose that and that one of BBs advantages is that it allows that kind of personal "workflow optimization". There are some improvements in BB10 like the Hub, but for many people, losing key elements of how their work is a dealbreaker---might as well get access to Netflix on iPhone then, if there are NO options that use the classic BB paradigm.

John Chen seems to know what he's doing here.

Agreed.
If I remember correctly, JC said, during an interview on WMC, that they researched within the community of legacy users, and what they didn't want to give up was the "belt". I don't believe this was just marketing BS.
And, I don't think that Chen is the kind of guy who makes such decisions based upon gutt feelings only. I'm almost sure there are some firm numbers behind it.

[carrollmikej]

All the media people will be all over this phone. News, Sports, entertainment, etc. If it has a keyboard and a Belt like they are familiar with, I see most of them finally making the jump to BB10.

I agree. Love the Q10 but boy would I love those dedicated keys and a trackpad back.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

Maybe they will integrate it with the screen, did anyone think of that?

If you are a PlayBook owner and have used the remote control pad you will know what I am going on about..

Then all of the physical button people, isn't that who this for? would hate it still. They want a button they can feel pushes in and clicks.

[JAS0NB0URNE]

What's different is if the classic BlackBerry becomes a big seller relatively speaking then the Q10 will become the oddball. It'll make it seem like a mistake.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.2141

So it's a problem if a new phone sells well? Unreal.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

[theonlybaldone]

It's holding shift and swiping, not Alt; it is a big improvement from original copying of text in BB10, but trackpad is more precise.


Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

And with the toolbelt, you can do it with one hand... I'm glad they're finally listening... business users need the toolbelt.. simplicity... one-hand... simple operation.. and it looks like the Q20 will do that. I went back to a Bold after trying both the Q10 and Z10... and I'm a techy that doesn't give up easily.. but they didn't make sense for true business. I was this close to bailing on Blackberry... now I'm excited for the Q20... and it will keep me around. I think they now realize what they're market is... business... rather than trying to play in the general consumer market... excellent!!!!

[kbz1960]

And with the toolbelt, you can do it with one hand... I'm glad they're finally listening... business users need the toolbelt.. simplicity... one-hand... simple operation.. and it looks like the Q20 will do that. I went back to a Bold after trying both the Q10 and Z10... and I'm a techy that doesn't give up easily.. but they didn't make sense for true business. I was this close to bailing on Blackberry... now I'm excited for the Q20... and it will keep me around. I think they now realize what they're market is... business... rather than trying to play in the general consumer market... excellent!!!!

Curious, if you did bail what phone with buttons and trackpad were you going to get? Or you just hate BB10 so much you choose any other phone over it buttons and trackpad or not? But you can't hate BB10 or you wouldn't be getting one with the belt or is it any old crap will do as log as it has a belt?

[Eupathic Impulse]

Curious, if you did bail what phone with buttons and trackpad were you going to get? Or you just hate BB10 so much you choose any other phone over it buttons and trackpad or not?

Something with some other handy, non-equivalent feature that would be a "consolation" prize and have features BB10 doesn't. I don't understand why this is even a question. With iPhone, you get fancy apps. With Samsung/Google/Android, you get a big variety of apps. Why is it so impossible to imagine this calculation here?

[systemvolker]

OK, looks like this is about to turn into a war.
Hold your horses folks, anyone who would like to have Q20 is going to have it... User preference ftw.

Just let it be. Some of our brothers and sisters asked for it and BlackBerry is granting it for them.

I'm just worried about BlackBerry, I hope they will only produce enough numbers of phones to manufacture just to save time and resources. Just like Google does on nexus series.

Work hard, play hard, smart play.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

Something with some other handy, non-equivalent feature that would be a "consolation" prize and have features BB10 doesn't. I don't understand why this is even a question. With iPhone, you get fancy apps. With Samsung/Google/Android, you get a big variety of apps. Why is it so impossible to imagine this calculation here?

Wow, really? You don't find it confusing when someone says if they don't add marshmallow back in these cookies I'm going to buy another cookie with no marshmallows? OK, whatever.

[RubberChicken76]

I don't understand why ppl are ******** about this phone. I don't complain about every phone I don't like or agree with. If you don't like it, don't buy it? There are ppl who want the buttons and track pad, so why not let them have it?

Posted via CB10

That's my view. I wouldn't care about the trackpad personally, but the poll on CrackBerry suggests a decent number of BlackBerry people want this. If it helps get more of the tens of millions of legacy customers onto BlackBerry 10, great! I don't have to buy it as there are other choices out there and more coming.

Certainly don't get the need for the melodrama. Don't like it, don't buy it. :-) Why spoil the fun for Belfast and co? :-P

[dejanh]

Something with some other handy, non-equivalent feature that would be a "consolation" prize and have features BB10 doesn't. I don't understand why this is even a question. With iPhone, you get fancy apps. With Samsung/Google/Android, you get a big variety of apps. Why is it so impossible to imagine this calculation here?

Um, let's see...the premise is based on "I want and need my productivity function buttons". the argument then continues with "so if BlackBerry won't give me those then I will change to a platform that **does not** have those". You don't see anything twisted about that? What's the motivator here, spite?

Posted via CB10

[iN8ter]

1) It benefits BlackBerry because now users still on Legacy devices who have resisted BlackBerry 10 due to no toolbelt will be much more likely to upgrade. Some with the Q10 will also upgrade to the Q20.

2) If you read Kevin's interview posted last night, BlackBerry is going to also make qwerty keyboard phones without the toolbelt. They are just making different lines of phones - all touch, qwerty with no toolbelt, qwerty with toolbelt. The Q20 is to placate a segment of BlackBerry legacy owners who have resisted upgrading because they want the toolbelt, whether it is to answer/reject/hangup from a phone call without looking at the screen, or to use the trackpad for superior copy/paste ability.

Adding a toolbelt does not make the phone slow like Legacy device phones are.

Posted with my ?Q10 running 10.2.1.1925.

1. Blackberry's user base is such that they need to convert users or get those that left the platform to come back. That's their issue. Yes, selling phones to existing users is fine, but a lot of people on a Legacy Device (especially a Curve) aren't going to fork out the kind of cash we can expect them to ask for the Q20. Even for players like Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. the high end is becoming an upgrade trademill to existing users and there isn't much growth there (Apple only does well because their user base upgrades religiously, they still aren't getting huge GROWTH at the high end and lack of low-end devices is why their market share (Globally) remains very low).

Users on Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and even a lot of BB10 users will not look at a "toolbelt" as a reason to buy this phone. Most, not all. I'm sure a few will...

2. Seems like a waste of money to me. They simply need to price competitively the Q and Z series and stick to 5" on the Z for a while and perhaps give a slightly bigger screen on the Q. I'm thinking corporate customers are likely the main drivers for introducing the Q20 and devices like it.

[Plazmic Flame]

Not directed to the OP but after going through the comments, people are acting like the Q20 is BlackBerry's device aimed at taking over the world. It is definitely not. The Q20 is in line with what Chen said very early on in his role as CEO: "focus on Enterprise". Many enterprise/corporate types tried BB10 and went back to BB7. This device clearly is the bridge to bring those people, and consumers alike, into the world of BB10. Clear and simple. We've seen this all throughout the forums of people that wanted the trackpad and refused to upgrade. Personally, I've seen this in real life as well in many of my clients offices.

Do I need to buy this device? Nope, I'm tech savvy and can learn any new software you throw at me but not everyone is like me and BlackBerry is realizing this. Also, BlackBerry is playing to their strengths as well. Remember Chen also said that they will be the niche player and do it well, plus there's nothing wrong with giving customers what they want.

The "tool-belt" always worked and there was never a problem with it 'technically', it was and still is TRUE one-handed operation.

[dejanh]

1. Blackberry's user base is such that they need to convert users or get those that left the platform to come back. That's their issue. Yes, selling phones to existing users is fine, but a lot of people on a Legacy Device (especially a Curve) aren't going to fork out the kind of cash we can expect them to ask for the Q20. Even for players like Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. the high end is becoming an upgrade trademill to existing users and there isn't much growth there (Apple only does well because their user base upgrades religiously, they still aren't getting huge GROWTH at the high end and lack of low-end devices is why their market share (Globally) remains very low).

Users on Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and even a lot of BB10 users will not look at a "toolbelt" as a reason to buy this phone. Most, not all. I'm sure a few will...

2. Seems like a waste of money to me. They simply need to price competitively the Q and Z series and stick to 5" on the Z for a while and perhaps give a slightly bigger screen on the Q. I'm thinking corporate customers are likely the main drivers for introducing the Q20 and devices like it.

Well put once again. Majority of the legacy user base is made up of corporate or low-end devices. This does not address either of those problems. The users, especially those in low income countries, will not perceive the Q20 as a viable upgrade path as they will simply be priced out of it. Corporate has a different issue entirely, despite what my friend @Plazmic Flame may want to suggest. The main reason why corporate is not interested in upgrading is the uncertainty around BlackBerry's future. The second reason is the fact that BES10 was not and still is not truly ready. I even saw this first hand in my company. The trade up licenses @$19 are very limited, BES10 feels disjointed, and features are limited. This is why our IT department chose to dump BlackBerry. Sadly, it is these corporate users that make up the largest percentage of legacy devices.

[Oofa]

Before you know it there will be an announcement that a new Q with no belt and a bigger screen is coming. For the life of me, I can't figure out why giving something to the fans of the old Bold in order to not lose them, after coming out with the Z line, is such a horrible thing in the eyes of so many. I don't usually say this since it's said to me more often than not but........ I think you are all over analyzing the whole belt thing. Chen has proven to be pretty good at what he does so far. Let's see what he can do for BlackBerry with a new device with older features.