04-01-15 01:40 PM
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  1. idssteve's Avatar
    Personally, and I don't own an external battery pack, I'd rather go that route versus a removable battery. The fluidity of simply plugging in the phone rather than the hassle of shutting the phone down, swapping batteries and waiting for the phone to boot and initialize itself would outweigh the inconvenience of carrying a pack around. But hey, if you're carrying a spare battery everywhere, a slightly larger charging pack can't really be that much of an inconvenience, can it?

    All these guys that say "what about when you're in the middle of a report" don't care that their report is interrupted by shutting down and pulling the battery? it's basically uninterrupted workflow and you don't lose your train of thought.
    Plugging in a usb charger keeps you going mid-call. A definite advantage for that strategy. Done that for years with my 99 when the situation demands it. The fixed battery thing CAN be worked around with several bandaid "fixes". Some of us don't LIKE the "fixes". Others, obviously, don't mind them and that's just life.

    I, personally, don't like the distraction of dealing with usb when i can CHOOSE my distraction point with a batt swap. For example, swapping the battery in route to the break room means my 99 is back to 100% by the time i get coffee and seated. No leaving my device tethered to a charger on the break room table while i walk away. No deciding between unteathering it while visiting the restroom or leaving it un-attended on the breakroom table or somewhere. No worrying whether the usb charger can out charge my usage drain. AND, if the thing dies mid-call, i can swap batts in my 99 and call back in three minutes. Maybe i haven't tried a large enough "brick-batt" but i have yet to see mine match that recovery time thru usb. All said, tho, when someone comes up with a fixed batt config that can be restored to 100% during a 15 minute break, i"ll be interested. Even tho that's 5 times what my 99 requires, that's a compromise i might tolerate.

    Dealing with tethers and appendages while rolling out and searching thru E sized prints during a troubleshooting call is another headache that just doesn't happen when using my unteathered, 100% charged, oem form factor 99. FWIW.

    This IS, however, a Classic forum, so i'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Just explaining why i'd like to see swappable batts included in Classic 2.
    playfoot and mushroom_daddy like this.
    03-23-15 09:11 AM
  2. krugbot's Avatar
    Plugging in a usb charger keeps you going mid-call. A definite advantage for that strategy. Done that for years with my 99 when the situation demands it. The fixed battery thing CAN be worked around with several bandaid "fixes". Some of us don't LIKE the "fixes". Others, obviously, don't mind them and that's just life.

    I, personally, don't like the distraction of dealing with usb when i can CHOOSE my distraction point with a batt swap. For example, swapping the battery in route to the break room means my 99 is back to 100% by the time i get coffee and seated. No leaving my device tethered to a charger on the break room table while i walk away. No deciding between unteathering it while visiting the restroom or leaving it un-attended on the breakroom table or somewhere. No worrying whether the usb charger can out charge my usage drain. AND, if the thing dies mid-call, i can swap batts in my 99 and call back in three minutes. Maybe i haven't tried a large enough "brick-batt" but i have yet to see mine match that recovery time thru usb. All said, tho, when someone comes up with a fixed batt config that can be restored to 100% during a 15 minute break, i"ll be interested. Even tho that's 5 times what my 99 requires, that's a compromise i might tolerate.

    Dealing with tethers and appendages while rolling out and searching thru E sized prints during a troubleshooting call is another headache that just doesn't happen when using my unteathered, 100% charged, oem form factor 99. FWIW.

    This IS, however, a Classic forum, so i'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Just explaining why i'd like to see swappable batts included in Classic 2.
    Well, personally I would hope they keep a huge battery inside the thing, update the specs so it's more power friendly and then we'd all be happy. OR, maybe if they sell enough Classics/Passports they'll be able to offer us the "MAXX" edition of the Classic with a huge, fixed battery, and one that's slimmer with a removable battery. I guess that's an ideal best of both worlds/not gonna happen scenario.
    03-23-15 09:20 AM
  3. slagman5's Avatar
    So you never:

    A) Fall asleep before putting your phone on charge
    B) Have to use your phone as a hotspot for an extended period
    C) Take a flight and use your phone for an extended period
    D) Forget to take your charger when traveling to job site/city/hotel
    E) Have to create a lengthy report or presentation from your phone

    You're never in any of those situations? Are you aware how awkward it is to use your phone when a battery brick is connected to it?


    Posted via CB10
    1. I've fallen asleep plenty of times without charging my phone, it always lasts enough for me to get to another charger later in the day.

    2. I don't use the mobile hotspot feature because my provider is kind of sucky in that and if they detect me using it will charge me extra since I'm on their grandfathered unlimited plan.

    3. I don't take a lot of international flights so any flight I take is all within a day, so never had a problem with the phone not lasting there.

    4. I haven't yet forgotten to bring a charger, because I keep a spare one in my bag, even when I unpack I keep the charger in it. But even at other circumstances where I am without my charger, being that it's a standard micro-usb, it's so easy to find something to charge the phone.

    5. I haven't had to create a lengthy report from the phone, but I have used my phone for extended periods of time before, once had the screen on and with streamed videos off the LTE network for almost 5 hours straight and still had battery left. That's why I prefer to have a larger battery even if it's not removeable, than one that is if it'll be smaller. If the battery was only 15% smaller, I would have ran out that time since I had just under 20% battery left after all of that. Like the Q10's battery, that would have definitely died and required a swap/recharge. I didn't have to do either. So if making it non-removeable means they can cram a larger battery in it, then more power to that, literally...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    03-23-15 09:21 AM
  4. BBgeeqed04's Avatar
    Wouldn't the cost of building and storing an unknown quantity of batteries and battery covers be considered wasteful by Chen? Chen's biggest change to BlackBerry was to cut waste. And apparently there was a lot of it.

    To be clear, I'm not against a swappable battery option. I just don't see it happening.

    The Classic
    03-23-15 09:54 AM
  5. Mack Gans's Avatar
    A lithium-ion battery degrades over time, but with a fixed battery you cannot replace it.

    Here's how a lithium-ion battery degrades over time (Engadget)

    Posted via CB10
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    03-23-15 10:07 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    A lithium-ion battery degrades over time, but with a fixed battery you cannot replace it.

    Here's how a lithium-ion battery degrades over time (Engadget)

    Posted via CB10
    The phone shop around the corner from me can replace a Z30 battery in about 5 minutes.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    03-23-15 10:12 PM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    Wouldn't the cost of building and storing an unknown quantity of batteries and battery covers be considered wasteful by Chen? Chen's biggest change to BlackBerry was to cut waste. And apparently there was a lot of it.

    To be clear, I'm not against a swappable battery option. I just don't see it happening.

    The Classic
    I have to agree. Economics is likely the primary motivator toward fixed batts. Endurance claims are a clever "side show" since the same and greater endurance can be achieved with a thick enough device. Fixed, or replaceable. I guess i don't understand the thinness craze but then i don't carry expensive, security critical, devices in pockets. I'm decades beyond an age to even consider "painted on jeans"... lol... So maybe there are issues a codger old enough to have changed Methuselah's diapers just don't get. ??

    At least a FEW of us would happily pay a premium for, and welcome the added thickness of, replaceable batts. Maybe, now that we've got the thin, economic, consumer grade model, perhaps Classic 2 can aim toward flagship status? Not holding my breath either... lol
    hlg8888 likes this.
    03-24-15 09:12 AM
  8. Mack Gans's Avatar
    Even if you only swap your battery in 5 or 10% of situations, the idea of owning a phone for 2-4 years without ever running out of power is unlikely if not impossible.

    Posted via CB10
    03-25-15 01:11 AM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    Even if you only swap your battery in 5 or 10% of situations, the idea of owning a phone for 2-4 years without ever running out of power is unlikely if not impossible.

    Posted via CB10
    Typical consumers are ok with "consumer grade" devices. I love my Classic but this single issue means I'm carrying my 99 when it might count. Unfortunately, we may never get what I'd call "Pro Grade" Classic. Other inquiries seem to indicate the industry at large worries about liability issues of folks toting LiPo-LiOns in pockets. Go figure. If so, say farewell to swappables. It was good while it lasted.
    03-25-15 06:21 AM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    Even if you only swap your battery in 5 or 10% of situations, the idea of owning a phone for 2-4 years without ever running out of power is unlikely if not impossible.

    Posted via CB10
    The only time I actually had that problem was when I had the 9900 and that's because it had a freakin tiny battery... The Q10 had much better battery life, but it still wasn't great, but there are enough chargers everywhere that I was always able to make it until the end of the day where it'll be charged overnight. The Classic has much better battery life, and so far haven't had any close calls yet...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    03-25-15 09:24 AM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    The only time I actually had that problem was when I had the 9900 and that's because it had a freakin tiny battery... The Q10 had much better battery life, but it still wasn't great, but there are enough chargers everywhere that I was always able to make it until the end of the day where it'll be charged overnight. The Classic has much better battery life, and so far haven't had any close calls yet...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Pretty sure I remember you commenting about living in hurricane zone so I'm sure you're too aware that hurricanes have a way of putting things to the test. Especially if local towers go down & devices are forced to reach out. Throw in some flashlight use, web news gathering & maybe some hotspot use and a "normally" big battery shrinks abnormally quickly. Gennys, battery bricks and solar chargers are essential, IMO. My home made solar charger pulls my 9900 out of the dirt, even under moderate clouds, but much smoother to just let it charge spare batts IMO. Dunno if it'll pull my Classic outa darkness but need to test it. I think at least some of the folks recommending external batteries truly need to TEST the things before they really need them.
    03-25-15 10:24 AM
  12. mushroom_daddy's Avatar
    Keep in mind the battery might shrink to fit in a removable form factor.
    I'd be happy with a slightly smaller battery with the option to swap in a replacement, and especially if there were charging dock contacts (like the 9900)



    --
    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    03-25-15 11:03 AM
  13. krugbot's Avatar
    I'd be happy with a slightly smaller battery with the option to swap in a replacement, and especially if there were charging dock contacts (like the 9900)



    --
    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Why do you need charging dock contacts when there's wireless charging? If the wireless charging capability is designed into the phone, it'd be cheaper for them to just manufacture wireless charging docks.
    03-25-15 02:41 PM
  14. Mack Gans's Avatar
    The BlackBerry forum page for the Insider Event is now up. I'll update the first post as well.

    Insider Event Forum Link

    Posted via CB10
    idssteve likes this.
    03-25-15 02:58 PM
  15. hlg8888's Avatar
    What is so difficult about taking off the cover and plugging in a fresh battery? I don't have to keep a big battery pack with me like my brother and his iphone 5.

    Posted via CB10
    03-25-15 03:58 PM
  16. slagman5's Avatar
    Pretty sure I remember you commenting about living in hurricane zone so I'm sure you're too aware that hurricanes have a way of putting things to the test. Especially if local towers go down & devices are forced to reach out. Throw in some flashlight use, web news gathering & maybe some hotspot use and a "normally" big battery shrinks abnormally quickly. Gennys, battery bricks and solar chargers are essential, IMO. My home made solar charger pulls my 9900 out of the dirt, even under moderate clouds, but much smoother to just let it charge spare batts IMO. Dunno if it'll pull my Classic outa darkness but need to test it. I think at least some of the folks recommending external batteries truly need to TEST the things before they really need them.
    Relying on the phone flashlight isn't the way to go. I have real flashlights, surefires, streamlights, etc. I tend to not use mobile phones during the hurricanes, and the power is rarely out for more than a few days, so this phone actually lasts long enough on one charge anyway. Obviously I know not to play games and do random things if I know there is a possibility I won't be able to charge it for a while... Not to mention, charging up spare batteries or charging up charging pods is pretty much exactly the same...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    03-25-15 04:37 PM
  17. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    What is so difficult about taking off the cover and plugging in a fresh battery? I don't have to keep a big battery pack with me like my brother and his iphone 5.

    Posted via CB10
    The common argument is that with more detachable parts the device feels less solid and "poorly built".
    03-26-15 07:55 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    What is so difficult about taking off the cover and plugging in a fresh battery? I don't have to keep a big battery pack with me like my brother and his iphone 5.

    Posted via CB10
    There are advantages to a removable battery, but since you are asking for the difficulties, I won't list them here.

    Disadvantages:

    1) Given same mah on battery, device will be bulkier.
    2) Battery contacts become a potential failure point - loose connection will result in random reboots. Regardless of design, wear is unavoidable.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    03-26-15 08:26 AM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    There are advantages to a removable battery, but since you are asking for the difficulties, I won't list them here.

    Disadvantages:

    1) Given same mah on battery, device will be bulkier.
    2) Battery contacts become a potential failure point - loose connection will result in random reboots. Regardless of design, wear is unavoidable.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    Wear is inevitable with any moving part but my 3 yr old 99 gets batt swapped about 3 times daily. Still NO signs of poor contact or Q10 style reboots. Same story with over 2 dozen in my company. Our Q10's weren't as bad as some have reported but we've always used RidOx contact lube on ANYthing like that so... maybe contact lube is the answer?

    That said, sitting here in the break room looking at about 2 dozen spare JM1s resting in their chargers, it's obvious the things weren't meant for life outside of the device. They're all pretty scarred from sharing pocket space with keys, pocket knives, etc. One is visibly bent... no one claims to know anything about THAT story... Point is, JM1s are batteries and not battery packs and so are somewhat fragile. External appearance indicates we are clearly using these things in a way that isn't optimal to their design. Knowing corporate climates TOO well, i can easily agree with an old friend (in the know) that possible liability concerns with loose batteries in pockets might be one of the motives behind the trend toward fixed batts. I, personally, know of NO issues resulting from the abuse JM1s receive at our hands but can see the need for a more durable protective covering on them. That covering would involve additional bulk.

    Next question: How much bulk is too much?? How many sales would be lost due to adding 1 or 2 mm to device thickness versus sales lost to fixed battery configuration? ??
    03-26-15 08:45 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Wear is inevitable with any moving part but my 3 yr old 99 gets batt swapped about 3 times daily. Still NO signs of poor contact or Q10 style reboots. Same story with over 2 dozen in my company. Our Q10's weren't as bad as some have reported but we've always used RidOx contact lube on ANYthing like that so... maybe contact lube is the answer?

    That said, sitting here in the break room looking at about 2 dozen spare JM1s resting in their chargers, it's obvious the things weren't meant for life outside of the device. They're all pretty scarred from sharing pocket space with keys, pocket knives, etc. One is visibly bent... no one claims to know anything about THAT story... Point is, JM1s are batteries and not battery packs and so are somewhat fragile. External appearance indicates we are clearly using these things in a way that isn't optimal to their design. Knowing corporate climates TOO well, i can easily agree with an old friend (in the know) that possible liability concerns with loose batteries in pockets might be one of the motives behind the trend toward fixed batts. I, personally, know of NO issues resulting from the abuse JM1s receive at our hands but can see the need for a more durable protective covering on them. That covering would involve additional bulk.

    Next question: How much bulk is too much?? How many sales would be lost due to adding 1 or 2 mm to device thickness versus sales lost to fixed battery configuration? ??

    I always error on the side of device stability over features. I'm not opposed to swappable batteries in principle.

    The difference between the old Bold and the newer devices (not just BB10, but all modern platforms) I THINK is that they need a perfectly uninterrupted power flow. Even a micro-second power drop will force a reboot. I think the older devices were more robust in this regard. I think designers have simply come to the consensus conclusion that removable batteries just wreak havoc on tech support.

    I will have to look more into this.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    03-26-15 09:07 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    I always error on the side of device stability over features. I'm not opposed to swappable batteries in principle.

    The difference between the old Bold and the newer devices (not just BB10, but all modern platforms) I THINK is that they need a perfectly uninterrupted power flow. Even a micro-second power drop will force a reboot. I think the older devices were more robust in this regard. I think designers have simply come to the consensus conclusion that removable batteries just wreak havoc on tech support.

    I will have to look more into this.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.281
    Good point. Needs to be enough PS capacitor to bridge transient interruption.

    Also, contact drag induces all manor of "nasties" into DC circuits. We've always marveled at how well the devices' PS handled that contact drag during batt swap. Money & space to be saved with cheaper PS, i guess.

    Don't like it but can see those choices approved in "committee".
    03-26-15 09:27 AM
  22. Mack Gans's Avatar
    Here's the official answer from BlackBerry:

    There were 2 contributing factors to the choice of a non-removable battery:

    It allowed for a larger battery size, while keeping the device slimmer. About 15% more battery capacity was available through the use of the non-removable battery at any given thickness, allowing for longer life without the need to either recharge or swap batteries.

    With the trend towards multiple devices (phones, tablets, accessories) we have seen emergence of dedicated external battery packs to replace per-device removable batteries. Users who previously would have purchased additional batteries were tending towards these solutions that can be used across multiple devices (concurrently and/or over time) and that can deliver power without the need for battery replacement and a device restart.

    The BlackBerry Classic battery stands up very well against the competition. The BlackBerry Classic contains a sizeable 2515 mAh battery and state of the art power optimization software, which delivers up to 22 hours of battery power (based on mixed use). Plus the power optimization software allows user to boost battery life by up to 15%, simply by customizing your Power Saving Profile.
    Sounds like the fixed battery is here to stay.
    03-31-15 11:54 AM
  23. evodevo69's Avatar
    Yeah, if you miss a night, as too frequently happens with 24/7 professionals, good luck getting power back into the thing the next day while trying to focus on a client's needs. When a client, on the other side of the planet, is loosing thousands of $$$ per minute, he's not very interested in the space or money BlackBerry saved with fixed battery nonsense. He needs my 110% attentive focus and cravenly hunting down power outlets along sidewalks, in cabs, buses, restaurants, bathrooms, etc, etc is an unwelcome distraction. Maybe not so in NYC or LA but not all of us live in the ivory towers of power outlet convenience.

    I took my Classic home for over a week and started getting into a routine but one night, 15 minutes after plugging it in, i got one of those calls. It had about an hour left in it before dying. Fortunately, i called him back on the old 99 and got the job done. The Classic is what it is. Many, if not most, won't miss the swappable battery feature. Some do.
    Doesn't one have to shut off the phone in order to swap batteries?

    #CB10 #glassweave #qwerty
    03-31-15 12:29 PM
  24. Black Ice's Avatar
    I like removable batteries because it gives you the option to trade it out for a fat battery.
    Why settle for 22 when you can go 44?

    Posted via CB10
    04-01-15 12:59 AM
  25. Q10Bold's Avatar
    Here is a link if you want it: (sorry its the 3rd post I paste in this link but I think its important BlackBerry to know what we users are thinking about)

    There is a porduct manager from BlackBerry so maybe he will be reading this:

    http://supportforums.blackberry.com/...p/3079890#M128

    Posted via Q10Bold
    04-01-15 02:26 AM
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