[early2bed]

I'm wondering how far people here will go to smear Dieter Bohn since many of us migrated from PreCentral/webOSNation where he must have done hundreds of podcasts going back to the days of Palm OS.

[sk8er_tor]

I'm wondering how far people here will go to smear Dieter Bohn since many of us migrated from PreCentral/webOSNation where he must have done hundreds of podcasts going back to the days of Palm OS.

It's not smear.

[Vintage123]

[QUOTE=I don't think BlackBerry was wrong to cite The Verge's review, since it gets the gist of what the WSJ says. The Classic is an awesome phone if you're a BlackBerry (or QWERTY keyboard) loyalist, but most people aren't loyalists.[/QUOTE]

This device wasn't built for most people. It was built for BlackBerry loyalists.



Posted via CB10

[ponpiri]

Who gives a **** what a bunch of skinny jean wearing hipsters who don't know **** about the business world thinks about BlackBerry. The verge is more or less disliked by most non apple fanboys, and even then I don't think some hippie m/f-er thinks what's best for me, the consumer. BlackBerry is symbolic, productive, and I don't need a tablet on my front pocket.

Posted via CB10

Why do people on this board hate skinny jeans? lmao I'm perplexed.

[Vintage123]

I'm wondering how far people here will go to smear Dieter Bohn since many of us migrated from PreCentral/webOSNation where he must have done hundreds of podcasts going back to the days of Palm OS.

Where have you seen anything that even resembles a personal smear? It's CRYSTAL CLEAR we have been sticking to the review itself, not who wrote it. Bait much?

Posted via CB10

[LazyEvul]

This device wasn't built for most people. It was built for BlackBerry loyalists.



Posted via CB10

But The Verge is not CrackBerry - their audience is most people. As such, I think the review was perfectly reasonable - not objective per se, but reviews by their very nature are not entirely objective. They're well-educated advice, and considering the target audience, the "don't buy" advice makes a certain degree of sense. Maybe a little harsh, but at least he took the time to highlight its strengths and make a case for said advice.

...guess I better go dust off my flamesuit.

[Vintage123]

But The Verge is not CrackBerry - their audience is most people. As such, I think the review was perfectly reasonable - not objective per se, but reviews by their very nature are not entirely objective. They're well-educated advice, and considering the target audience, the "don't buy" advice makes a certain degree of sense. Maybe a little harsh, but at least he took the time to highlight its strengths and make a case for said advice.

...guess I better go dust off my flamesuit.

I tend to think The Verge is an extension of the iphone, which I guess is 'most people'? I don't think anyone who subscribes or hangs out there has any intention of ever using a BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[LazyEvul]

I tend to think The Verge is an extension of the iphone, which I guess is 'most people'? I don't think anyone who subscribes or hangs out there has any intention of ever using a BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

Call them what you will, but that is exactly my point - the device was designed for what is, at best, a small minority of their readers. Difficult to recommend it when that's the case, but at least he highlighted the strengths that would appeal to that minority.

[Alattin Simsek]

Design: 7, I think it's 9
Cameras 4? Come on, it's not the best, but it's at least 6.
Call quality: 8? Tell me another phone with better call quality. Should be 10.
Performance: 4, really?!
Software: 5, I think it's 7.


Posted via CB10

[nomadGT]

I've been using my Classic for 5 days now.....[LIST]
keyboard is fantastic, best keyboard I've typed on so far, its responsive and has an incredible feel....
the feel of the phone is soooooo good, solid and beefy with a great rubber back so it stays solid in your hand
the screen is good even at this lower dpi
I use it all day and 40%+ battery left at end of day.....
camera is a little slower than I would have liked but acceptable
I absolutely love the belt, the trackpad makes u move faster than the screen when u know how to use it.....
I have owned many BB phones from the early days to the curves...bold....Z10....and now the classic. Even went to the dark side for a while and came back.....best phone I ever had, by far

[Toodeurep]

But The Verge is not CrackBerry - their audience is most people. As such, I think the review was perfectly reasonable - not objective per se, but reviews by their very nature are not entirely objective. They're well-educated advice, and considering the target audience, the "don't buy" advice makes a certain degree of sense. Maybe a little harsh, but at least he took the time to highlight its strengths and make a case for said advice.

...guess I better go dust off my flamesuit.

As mentioned above, most of their listeners aren't even remotely interested in BB, so yea, why say it. They only reviewed the device to get page hits, and from what I can tell, he only came hear to stir the pot up. Nothing screams POS (site and writer) like what I am seeing here. The sad thing is the suckers give them exactly what they want, traffic. Where is Anonymous when you need them...#tangodown.

I haven't looked, did they magically deduct 30% off the score because it scored too high like the last one, lol.

Nice try though.

[bghotme]

Terrible review.

[Commodus]

Maybe because the review was unfair? No mention of Blend, he says the camera sucks just because he tried taking a close up of a cat that moved on him (show me any camera that won't give a blurry result in this case), and rates the BB10 software a 5, lower than anything else they've rated without really saying why. Not only this, but he comes out and says "don't buy this phone" without understanding who the phone is really for; legacy diehards upgrading from BBOS. It was a review from someone who doesn't know how to use BB10.

I don't think you read the review thoroughly. As Dieter explains, his cat is willing to stay very still. The issue isn't that it's hard to capture a fast-moving subject, it's that the Classic's camera is so slow that this patient feline wasn't willing to stick around for the shot. Watch the video reviews (both Verge and WSJ) to see what he means. On an iPhone or most Android phones, you tap the shutter and get a photo just about instantly. On the Classic? Tap... wait for it... wait for it... click. It has a bad camera, that's an unquestionable fact.

And you do realize you illustrated my point, right? You're savaging the review because you wanted it to only reflect the point of view of a BlackBerry lover, the sort of person who's willing to forgive many flaws because the phone does tremendous fan service. Reviews at generalist sites don't work that way; they have to think about a broader audience that likes things such as big screens, large app ecosystems, brisk performance and good cameras. If you only want to know what a BlackBerry fan thinks of the Classic, there's this "CrackBerry" site that I hear has its own review!

How can you even agree with that? Really, nothing else changed? The camera is not better? The OS is not faster? Did we not get features that were never on legacy BBOS such as Miracast, HDMI, Blend, a front facing camera/video chat, EAS support, remote file access, a file manager that's integrated with Box/Dropbox/OneDrive, not to mention Android support so people can finally have apps like Instagram.

Again, I don't think you're really understanding what the review (in this case, the WSJ) says. Joanna isn't literally claiming that nothing has changed. She's saying that the experience hasn't moved forward on a fundamental level -- this is not going to make your typical smartphone user come running back to BlackBerry. To do that, it would have to both do everything a BlackBerry excels at and cover what many people get from rival platforms.

[dguy123]

Sure..if it is positive it is not biased while negative is biased.

Don't be daft...

Unbiased conclusion from this review :

"If communication is paramount to you, plowing through tonns of emails is where you're bread is buttered, don't care too much about apps beyond that, then this may be the phone for you.
If having all the latest apps, watching movies etc is most important to you, you should steer clear of this one."

Actual BIASED conclusion from this review :
"Nobody should buy this phone. Trust me, it's not for you "


His actual review was okay... his conclusion/recommendation was completely biased by his personal preference, and he uses THAT as the criteria for deciding what is good for everyone.

So you're saying that isn't biased??




Posted via CB10

[Vintage123]

I don't think you read the review thoroughly. As Dieter explains, his cat is willing to stay very still. The issue isn't that it's hard to capture a fast-moving subject, it's that the Classic's camera is so slow that this patient feline wasn't willing to stick around for the shot. Watch the video reviews (both Verge and WSJ) to see what he means. On an iPhone or most Android phones, you tap the shutter and get a photo just about instantly. On the Classic? Tap... wait for it... wait for it... click. It has a bad camera, that's an unquestionable fact.

And you do realize you illustrated my point, right? You're savaging the review because you wanted it to only reflect the point of view of a BlackBerry lover, the sort of person who's willing to forgive many flaws because the phone does tremendous fan service. Reviews at generalist sites don't work that way; they have to think about a broader audience that likes things such as big screens, large app ecosystems, brisk performance and good cameras. If you only want to know what a BlackBerry fan thinks of the Classic, there's this "CrackBerry" site that I hear has its own review!





Again, I don't think you're really understanding what the review (in this case, the WSJ) says. Joanna isn't literally claiming that nothing has changed. She's saying that the experience hasn't moved forward on a fundamental level -- this is not going to make your typical smartphone user come running back to BlackBerry. To do that, it would have to both do everything a BlackBerry excels at and cover what many people get from rival platforms.

Please stop assuming the posters here are unable to understand a review. It's insulting. If the Verge was equally critical of other platforms this would be a non issue but they aren't, they are biased, and that's perfectly fine but let's not pretend they aren't. Both of these reviews were ostensibly neutral but designed as a backhanded put down for those of us who are still 'so far behind the times we surely couldn't identify an insult when presented with one'. BlackBerry has its faults, no question, but some people won't be satisfied until this company is dead and buried and even then they will continue to hate & mock. BlackBerry is like the George Bush of the cell phone world & the hate never ends.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

Don't be daft...

Unbiased conclusion from this review :

"If communication is paramount to you, plowing through tonns of emails is where you're bread is buttered, don't care too much about apps beyond that, then this may be the phone for you.
If having all the latest apps, watching movies etc is most important to you, you should steer clear of this one."

Actual BIASED conclusion from this review :
"Nobody should buy this phone. Trust me, it's not for you "


His actual review was okay... his conclusion/recommendation was completely biased by his personal preference, and he uses THAT as the criteria for deciding what is good for everyone.

So you're saying that isn't biased??




Posted via CB10

Don't be daft? Now you're asking too much...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Commodus]

Please stop assuming the posters here are unable to understand a review. It's insulting. If the Verge was equally critical of other platforms this would be a non issue but they aren't, they are biased, and that's perfectly fine but let's not pretend they aren't. Both of these reviews were ostensibly neutral but designed as a backhanded put down for those of us who are still 'so far behind the times we surely couldn't identify an insult when presented with one'. BlackBerry has its faults, no question, but some people won't be satisfied until this company is dead and buried and even then they will continue to hate & mock. BlackBerry is like the George Bush of the cell phone world & the hate never ends.

I'm not assuming. I'm proving that one specific poster didn't understand it. If you can show how I'm wrong using hard evidence, I'd be happy to hear it!

Also, you clearly don't know Joanna's history. She was an absolutely rabid BlackBerry fan, and still has a soft spot for it. Accusing her of maintaining an anti-BlackBerry bias is like accusing a mother of hating her son just because she chastised the boy for a poor grade in school. It's possible to offer sharp criticism of a product without being predisposed to hating it.

[Avenzuno]

I'm wondering how far people here will go to smear Dieter Bohn since many of us migrated from PreCentral/webOSNation where he must have done hundreds of podcasts going back to the days of Palm OS.

Not me, but I do respect his opinion and perspective. Perhaps his hidden message is that cutting edge specs is important not necessarily for BlackBerry 10, but more so to run the Android runtime apps.



Posted via CB10 | VZW Z30 on at&t LTE

[SpartanSK117]

Here's their video review:

I actually spent half an hour trying to defend Blackberry in the comments section. There was a guy in the comments saying that virtual keyboards are faster than physical keyboards.... It's sad that so many people are misinformed and biased because society tells them to be. A Blackberry is a rare sight now in London.

'Clickity-Clack' goes my keypad! - White BlackBerry Q5

[Vintage123]

I'm not assuming. I'm proving that one specific poster didn't understand it. If you can show how I'm wrong using hard evidence, I'd be happy to hear it!

Also, you clearly don't know Joanna's history. She was an absolutely rabid BlackBerry fan, and still has a soft spot for it. Accusing her of maintaining an anti-BlackBerry bias is like accusing a mother of hating her son just because she chastised the boy for a poor grade in school. It's possible to offer sharp criticism of a product without being predisposed to hating it.

The woman has no love loss for BlackBerry and just because she used to own one doesn't mean her narrow minded review is somehow valid.

"This is the best phone to get if you need a real physical keyboard to plow through emails, manage your calendar, browse the Web?and not much else.
When you use it, you will feel like no time has passed at all. And that is, of course, its biggest shortcoming".

Her bottom line assessment is terribly misinformed. But never mind that, she was once a "rabid BlackBerry fan" so she surely knows how to write a balanced review of one. It's ridiculous on its face to claim the phone is the best ever made by BlackBerry, yet claim it's made zero advances in the last xxx years.

Posted via CB10

[Vintage123]

Here's their video review:

I actually spent half an hour trying to defend Blackberry in the comments section. There was a guy in the comments saying that virtual keyboards are faster than physical keyboards.... It's sad that so many people are misinformed and biased because society tells them to be. A Blackberry is a rare sight now in London.

'Clickity-Clack' goes my keypad! - White BlackBerry Q5

BlackBerry has done plenty to pi$$ me off over the years but I've never seen such rabid animosity and downright openly biased reviews of any product like I have seen with BlackBerry. It's some sort of phenomenon in a class all by itself. Same goes for the iphone, but in reverse.

Posted via CB10

[LazyEvul]

The woman has no love loss for BlackBerry and just because she used to own one doesn't mean her narrow minded review is somehow valid.

"This is the best phone to get if you need a real physical keyboard to plow through emails, manage your calendar, browse the Web?and not much else.
When you use it, you will feel like no time has passed at all. And that is, of course, its biggest shortcoming".

Her bottom line assessment is terribly misinformed. But never mind that, she was once a "rabid BlackBerry fan" so she surely knows how to write a balanced review of one. It's ridiculous on its face to claim the phone is the best ever made by BlackBerry, yet claim it's made zero advances in the last xxx years.

Posted via CB10

You do realize her final line is a figure of speech, right? It is not meant to be taken absolutely literally - the phone has obviously advanced, but what she is saying hasn't changed is the incentive (or lack thereof) to own a BlackBerry over the competition. The advantages of the Classic over the competition are much the same as they were with the Bold 9900 in 2011. For the phone's target audience, that's great. For the majority of her readers, and smartphone users in general, that's just not enough until other shortcomings are addressed.

[Commodus]

The woman has no love loss for BlackBerry and just because she used to own one doesn't mean her narrow minded review is somehow valid.

"This is the best phone to get if you need a real physical keyboard to plow through emails, manage your calendar, browse the Web?and not much else.
When you use it, you will feel like no time has passed at all. And that is, of course, its biggest shortcoming".

Her bottom line assessment is terribly misinformed. But never mind that, she was once a "rabid BlackBerry fan" so she surely knows how to write a balanced review of one. It's ridiculous on its face to claim the phone is the best ever made by BlackBerry, yet claim it's made zero advances in the last xxx years.

Again: she did not say that BlackBerry literally made zero advances. The "you will feel like" part is a big clue to that. If you can't grasp that she was talking in the higher-level sense about advancement, or that it's possible for a company to make its best product ever without faring well against the competition... well, that's just a basic failure in literary criticism.

And I'm not saying that previous ownership by itself shows a lack of bias against a platform. It's that she's both a long-time fan and wants the brand to stage a comeback. She's just not willing to be a cheerleader for a device she doesn't feel is up to snuff. Also, there's a definite irony to claiming she wrote a "narrow-minded" review when you're asking her to intentionally limit her perspective to that of a hardcore BlackBerry admirer, rather than someone who genuinely takes the wider smartphone ecosystem into consideration.

[anon(8063781)]

It amuses me to see this review referred to as the work of kids ('skinny jeans' and all!) and the product of bias. I do agree, as a fellow CrackBerrian once wrote, that the Verge is generally 'really Douchey' when it comes to BlackBerry reviews, and I agree that this review has that irritating Verge tone. But I disagree with the assessment of Dieter's qualifications to write it.

If BlackBerry can't win over Dieter Bohn with the Classic, they're in trouble. He says that he wanted to like this phone. Dieter has years of experience as a journalist and a real affection for this form factor. Remember the Palm Treo? It looked like a Berry? Dieter started hosting the TreoCast back in 2007. He was one of Palm's biggest defenders. This phone, so much like a Treo, should appeal to him.

His complaints are the very similar to those that have cropped up on the forums here as well. Maybe that's what bothers people so much. It's two year old hardware. Android apps struggle on the Q10 and Z10, so they were bound to struggle on this hardware as well. It's the same hardware. If the camera's like the one on my Q10, it IS slow. I'm surprised the cat wasn't dead by the time the shutter opened.

On the other hand, the comments about OS10 being 'arcane' seem silly. Most of my family members who have iPhones don't even know that they have a task switcher. Operating systems are like that. The vast majority of people won't understand their intricacies. The story about the typewriter is pointless too ... or rather, it contradicts his argument. He says that he discarded the typewriter because he couldn't get his work done with it, and work is precisely the thing that he says the Classic is great at ... go figure.

In the end, the real issue is, do you want a physical keyboard or not? If you do, and you want a newer phone, you're going to buy a BlackBerry despite the drawbacks, and despite the security issues that have recently emerged. If you don't want a physical keyboard, then you have a ton of choices and the world is your oyster. It looks like Dieter, like almost everyone else in the world, has decided that the keyboard doesn't matter enough when weighed against the phone's performance and the limitations of the form factor.

[anon(4295315)]

With Z30 specs this phone would surely have received a better review.

Posted via CB10