08-15-14 01:31 PM
657 ... 1718192021 ...
tools
  1. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    Z30 should have been released rather then Z10.

    Q20 should have been released rather then Q10.

    We all know that. At least they are getting it right now.

    eBBM. Another good sign.

    If only non bes user could get access to balance (dual profiles) already!
    flyingsolid likes this.
    02-25-14 06:27 PM
  2. redlightblinking's Avatar
    No just trying to figure out what you think the home screen is. It is an archaic concept IMHO and not relevant to BB10. Not sure what is wrong with your device but I can get into the hub with one movement from any app, any screen, at any time with the swipe up and hook to the left gesture. We aren't going to get anywhere, you feel the BBOS buttons are quicker based on your experience, and I feel they are not based on mine.

    Posted via CB10
    No, someone else talked about going to the home screen....so I asked "what is the home screen". Because if it's what they said it was...it actually takes two swipes to get there. I still haven't gotten anyone to say what the home screen really is. Which is kind of a problem if you like to have things in one place.

    How is a home screen archaic? You have to start somewhere. Something needs be considering the area to go back to. Otherwise...WHY SWIPE UP? Where are you going?

    There is nothing wrong with my phone...but thanks for the sarcasm. I'd like a little cream and sugar with that please. You just describe TWO difrent movements....not one....two. You said you move UP....THEN....you move RIGHT. That's.....TWO.

    Buttons, by definition, are quicker. Trying replacing your computers keyboard with one that requires you make a swipe action for each letter and get back to me. How about playing a video game with a controller with no buttons....just swipes for everyone command. I doubt you will get a very high score. Darn physics.
    02-25-14 06:30 PM
  3. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Again sounds like you are assuming it is slower for everyone because you feel it is for yourself. Others find the BBOS way of doing things much slower with buttons than they do with BB10 gestures.

    Posted via CB10
    it's simple physics. You either touch something (you're already done in the world of buttons) or you touch something....THEN (nope, not done yet, you've got more work to do)....you move your finger a inch or two. Which takes longer?.

    Why don't they make computer keyboards that require you to swipe each key instead of tapping each key? Because...swiping is faster....right?
    02-25-14 06:34 PM
  4. darkangel123elijah's Avatar
    UGH........................
    Ikr....who uses that (don't screw up BlackBerry stay focused on the gesture based os it is freaking amazing)

    Sent From my brand new Q10
    02-25-14 06:40 PM
  5. darkangel123elijah's Avatar
    Ikr....who uses that (don't screw up BlackBerry stay focused on the gesture based os it is freaking amazing)

    Sent From my brand new Q10
    Yeah, I stand corrected :/ if it's a one time device yeah it will be amazing

    Sent From my brand new Q10
    02-25-14 06:42 PM
  6. kalphreef's Avatar
    Why..... that's such a step backwards. Everyone will realize once the initial nostalgia fades away. The buttons will honestly take away from the gestures. Why spend millions on making a new gesture based software.... just to bring back buttons anyway. Is that not the point of the gestures?

    Also, everyone talking **** on the swiping gestures now because buttons are coming back... it is funny that everyone was praising the gestures over the buttons just a couple days ago, and now this news comes along so gestures are all of a sudden "inconvenient" and "take too long".

    Posted via CB10
    deptech and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-25-14 06:44 PM
  7. deptech's Avatar
    No, someone else talked about going to the home screen....so I asked "what is the home screen". Because if it's what they said it was...it actually takes two swipes to get there. I still haven't gotten anyone to say what the home screen really is. Which is kind of a problem if you like to have things in one place.

    How is a home screen archaic? You have to start somewhere. Something needs be considering the area to go back to. Otherwise...WHY SWIPE UP? Where are you going?

    There is nothing wrong with my phone...but thanks for the sarcasm. I'd like a little cream and sugar with that please. You just describe TWO difrent movements....not one....two. You said you move UP....THEN....you move RIGHT. That's.....TWO.

    Buttons, by definition, are quicker. Trying replacing your computers keyboard with one that requires you make a swipe action for each letter and get back to me. How about playing a video game with a controller with no buttons....just swipes for everyone command. I doubt you will get a very high score. Darn physics.
    Don't take this so personal, everyone is allowed to have an opinion, there is no right or wrong here. Also, pressing a button is not Physics, but it is a physical action.

    Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada
    02-25-14 07:01 PM
  8. redlightblinking's Avatar
    When you hold a phone with TWO hands your thumbs are free to hover over the lower half of the screen which is why most, but not all, phones put their buttons in the lower half.
    Sure, but I'm busy. My other hand is helping me make money....opening a door, holding my luggage, holding my lunch, paying the cabbie, holding a camera. I only have one hand available. Just curious, what phones put any buttons on the top half?

    That makes sense for a phone like the Q10 with all those keys in the bottom half but, for the all touch Z10 for example, most people either hold the phone in one hand so that the thumb is free to move more around the middle of the screen with the ability to stretch to either the top or the bottom OR they hold the phone in one hand and peck at the screen with the index finger of their other hand.

    The larger Z30 is harder but not impossible to use single handed unless you have particularly large hands to make it easier (mine aren't), so people are more likely to either hold with one hand and peck with the other or hold with two hands and use both thumbs.

    For me when I'm typing a lot on my Z30 I actually adopt a hybrid of the last two. I hold it in my left hand with my little finger along the bottom supporting it and the thumb free to type on the left side of the keyboard while I type on the right side of the keyboard with the index finger of my right hand.

    If I'm not doing a lot of typing then I hold it in either hand and just use the thumb of that hand to navigate and swipe words up from the amazing virtual keyboard.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    You lost me at stretch. I don't want to stretch...I want to touch where my thumb naturally is already. That's why I'd like the belt...especially on a q10. The z10 would still require a bit of stretching, but not as much thumb motion.
    02-25-14 07:04 PM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    it's simple physics. You either touch something (you're already done in the world of buttons) or you touch something....THEN (nope, not done yet, you've got more work to do)....you move your finger a inch or two. Which takes longer?.

    Why don't they make computer keyboards that require you to swipe each key instead of tapping each key? Because...swiping is faster....right?
    Let's see with BBOS you press the end button to end an app or send it to the background. To see a list of apps still running you have to do a long press of the menu key, because short press just brings up the regular menu, and then select which app you want to use. Also you just don't touch the button, you move your appendage to the exact location of the particular button, and then have to apply pressure to activate the sensor under the button, have to make sure you hold it down long enough for the long press if required, etc. Those electro mechanical contacts can and will wear over time. They add cost to the device and consume precious real estate in the casing themselves downward into the case.

    Your convoluting typing with UI navigation. You can use just a keyboard on Windows, but a mouse allows you to do more quicker than with just a keyboard and navigate the UI quicker. I type on glass just fine without swiping and without physical buttons, although there are swipe keyboard applications on other platforms because computer keyboards are sized for two, full hand usage, but it doesn't necessarily translate perfectly to a smaller phone form factor. And as for navigation of UI without buttons, Xbox Kinect, Windows, iPad, Macbook Pro touch pad, Wii, all incorporating gestures and/or motion for control and input. Apple has been able to do more with a single trackpad than traditional laptop pads do with multiple buttons. My Apple magic mouse has no buttons on top but emulates the buttons just fine with gestures.

    Posted via CB10
    deptech likes this.
    02-25-14 07:10 PM
  10. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Don't take this so personal, everyone is allowed to have an opinion, there is no right or wrong here. Also, pressing a button is not Physics, but it is a physical action.

    Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada
    Taking what personal...insults? Gosh, why would I do that? Who said you can't have an opinion? I'm not stating an opinion about the touch vs. the swipe, I'm stating a physical reality; one action simply takes longer because one requires both a touch....and then.........more touching. I guess that 's simple math as well. 1...or....1 + more.....

    Pressing a button doesn't involve physics?
    02-25-14 07:12 PM
  11. 1guitarguy's Avatar
    That actually looks really nice

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 07:14 PM
  12. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Let's see with BBOS you press the end button to end an app or send it to the background. To see a list of apps still running you have to do a long press of the menu key, because short press just brings up the regular menu, and then select which app you want to use.
    There are other ways of opening the app that don't require the long hold. You would only long hold if closing and app....otherwise if you want to open it just touch the icon. (unless the icon is buried)

    Also you just don't touch the button, you move your appendage to the exact location of the particular button, and then have to apply pressure to activate the sensor under the button, have to make sure you hold it down long enough for the long press if required, etc. Those electro mechanical contacts can and will wear over time. They add cost to the device and consume precious real estate in the casing themselves downward into the case.
    Yes, and everything just described ALSO takes place for a swipe.................PLUS..................more time after that.

    ]
    Your convoluting typing with UI navigation.
    No, I'm comparing the two methods of data entry while typing. The tap (one single touch) or the swipe (one single touch followed by more motion..
    For some reason they still stick with the first....more efficient, faster method for all keyboards ever made.

    You can use just a keyboard on Windows, but a mouse allows you to do more quicker than with just a keyboard and navigate the UI quicker. I type on glass just fine without swiping and without physical buttons, although there are swipe keyboard applications on other platforms because computer keyboards are sized for two, full hand usage, but it doesn't necessarily translate perfectly to a smaller phone form factor.

    Posted via CB10
    Great. What does this have to do with anything?

    And as for navigation of UI without buttons, Xbox Kinect, Windows, iPad, Macbook Pro touch pad, Wii, all incorporating gestures and/or motion for control and input. Apple has been able to do more with a single trackpad than traditional laptop pads do with multiple buttons. My Apple magic mouse has no buttons on top but emulates the buttons just fine with gestures.

    Posted via CB10
    Great. Again, what does that have to do with anything I'm talking about?
    Last edited by redlightblinking; 02-25-14 at 07:39 PM.
    02-25-14 07:20 PM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    There are other ways of opening the app that doesn't require the long hold.



    Yes, and everything just described ALSO takes place for a swipe.................PLUS..................more time after that.

    ]

    No, I'm comparing the two methods of data entry while typing. The tap (one single touch) or the swipe (one single touch followed by more motion..
    For some reason they still stick with the first....more efficient, faster method for all keyboards ever made.


    Great. What does this have to do with anything?


    Great. Again, what does that have to do with anything I'm talking about?
    You mentioned controlling games without buttons, it is being done. PS4 has a gesture area now too. I brought up other examples where gestures are being used because you can only have so many buttons on something and gestures allow you to do things without dedicated buttons being present or required. Smaller devices where space for buttons is at a premium is again where many are looking to gestures to do functions.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 07:41 PM
  14. redlightblinking's Avatar
    You mentioned controlling games without buttons, it is being done. PS4 has a gesture area now too. I brought up other examples where gestures are being used because you can only have so many buttons on something and gestures allow you to do things without dedicated buttons being present or required. Smaller devices where space for buttons is at a premium is again where many are looking to gestures to do functions.

    Posted via CB10
    It has a gesture "area" for additional actions, but they didn't replace the buttons....did they? Because people would go crazy...it would slow them down.....right? You don't shoot your gun by constantly swiping....right? You push a button of some sort....because that is faster.
    02-25-14 07:45 PM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    It has a gesture "area" for additional actions, but they didn't replace the buttons....did they? Because people would go crazy...it would slow them down.....right? You don't shoot your gun by constantly swiping....right? You push a button of some sort....because that is faster.
    OK this is going nowhere and like I said we aren't going to agree on the speed of gestures vs buttons. My experience differs from yours and our opinions are based on our experiences.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 08:10 PM
  16. IgotsThis's Avatar
    Saving half a second is meaningless, "well let's add all those half seconds up and see how much time we save" it's frivolous. In real world usage the difference would be very marginal. I mean seriously, saving half a second? Come on now...... and ofcourse someone is gonna reply with some super extreme situation where half a second would be the difference between life and death -.-'

    Posted via CB10
    deptech and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-25-14 08:20 PM
  17. bbzak's Avatar
    This the best news I have heard in years!
    The amazing goodness of trackpad being added to the amazing BlackBerry 10 os?????
    Man!!!! That is simply wet dream material.

    The convenience of a track pad can never be replaced by gestures and touch screen. No matter what the trolls say and think.

    I am very sure BlackBerry is headed in the right direction.

    My cheque is signed and ready for atleast 10 pieces of q20 aka Classic.

    Posted via CB10
    2c likes this.
    02-25-14 08:22 PM
  18. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Saving half a second is meaningless, "well let's add all those half seconds up and see how much time we save" it's frivolous. In real world usage the difference would be very marginal. I mean seriously, saving half a second? Come on now...... and ofcourse someone is gonna reply with some super extreme situation where half a second would be the difference between life and death -.-'

    Posted via CB10
    Based on this logic....why make anything faster? Because it's meaningless....right? After all....it only adds up to a few minutes per day. A hours per year. Who needs this time anyway. People with BlackBerry's are usually very casual people with nothing going on anyway.

    After all, whats a few more seconds of looking down at your phone while walking in a crowded airport? Why do you need to look up faster?
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-25-14 08:25 PM
  19. redlightblinking's Avatar
    OK this is going nowhere and like I said we aren't going to agree on the speed of gestures vs buttons. My experience differs from yours and our opinions are based on our experiences.

    Posted via CB10
    My experience is the same as yours because I have the same phone. It requires the same (longer) action. Why not respond to my question about controllers that use swipes...because they take the same amount of time....right? It's just as easy to shoot your virtual gun by swiping over and over as it is by pressing a button over and over. Right?
    02-25-14 08:29 PM
  20. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Say WHAT? Touch at the bottom that your finger is hovering over isn't faster than a swipe...then why not just have video game controllers make you swipe for every single command? Because it takes LONGER.
    You must be taking more time than me then to swipe up on a touch screen because I can swipe up from the bottom of my Z phones just as quickly as I can press a physical button on my 9860. You don't need to swipe up very far on a BB10 phone, a short quick flick of the finger is enough, maybe you aren't doing it like that?

    Video games often require near instantaneous input. A smartphone does not REQUIRE near instantaneous input, unless you're playing a game and then you use specific controls for fast input. Hypothetically speaking will it kill anyone if a user input action in BB10 takes half a second longer or even a whole second compared to BBOS? You talk like it's premeditated murder.

    Do you type keys on your keyboard at your computer....or do you swipe them? Which is more intensive? It's amazing that people can't admit that moving your finger a centimeter is less that moving it one to two inches.
    I think it may well be that your perception of how far you have to move your finger when doing swipe gestures in BB10 is a little off the way it actually is. You don't have to move your finger inches for most of the gestures, particularly not the swipe up to leave an app. A short flick is enough.

    Also I think when you use the word 'intensive' it gives an image of exhausting physical labour. Intensive exercise is where you exert yourself to the point of being unable to continue. Not quite what happens when using a smartphone! Maybe saying which one requires more effort rather than which is the most 'intensive' would be a better way of phrasing it.

    Sorry, this is wrong. Just did a test to confirm. Say you are in email,, then you press the phone button (or get a call). From phone screen press back to get to email. If you open attachments or links...same thing....you go back in the order you got there.
    Yes you're right sorry, it's been a long time since I fired up the 9860, so I honestly had forgotten that the back button retraces your steps between the apps you were in before going back to the home screen. The 9860 is a phone with many problems, it's unfinished and they didn't bother to finish it in any of the updates, so I hate using it now compared to my Z phones, it stays off a lot now.

    Which is more effortless...touching or reaching and swiping?
    For me personally I find it no more effort to reach and swipe than to reach and press a button. Perhaps you own or have used a Q10 that you held with both hands, with your thumbs over the keyboard? The Z series intuitively encourage you to hold in one hand as they are easier to type on with one thumb than a Q10 is with one thumb. I usually do hold either of my Z's one handed, unless I'm going to be typing a lot, so swiping with the thumb of the hand that's holding it is a piece of cake. Remember on my 9860 reaching for the function keys and touchpad at the bottom is a pain in the thumb!

    Well, if you were going for the condescending statement of the day award, you win. But nice job and starting out with the sarcastic "my friend". Here's the thing....I know how to swipe. I do it with no problem despite your efforts to change the subject to "user error...you must be elderly".
    Woah there! Turn off the hate tap mate. I was not trying to be condescending towards you at all. 'My friend' is a term of endearment where I'm from, I say it all the time.

    And I'm not attempting to change the subject or trying to say that you are too old to be using your phone correctly by mentioning that in my experience, where I work and train people in using mobile devices as part of my job, the more elderly people are the ones who struggle the most with technology in general and with change. It's just the way it is, the older they are the less likely they grew up with technology and the more alien it is to them unless they made a big effort to get in to it during their working life or their personal life when they were younger.

    I work in local government with elected members, most of whom are retired from their careers even before they stand for election. So when I say elderly I mean elderly, one of my BlackBerry users is pushing on 80 and still going strong! Try teaching Windows 8 on a Surface to a guy born in 1935!

    Simple physics...the universal laws of nature....DEFINE that a swipe take longer and more effort that a tap. Regardless of how much you love it. It's undeniable physics...no matter how insignificant it may be to some people with lots of time on their hands and nothing else to do (Am I in the running for the award now?)
    The award for the most "they're all out to get me" member of CrackBerry forums? Possibly.

    Clearly user input being ultimately efficient down to the millisecond is important to you. Great, whatever floats your boat. For most people there are many more things in this day and age that they expect from a smartphone that they class as more important than having the phone that allows them to go back a screen faster than any other phone on the planet. It's just not that high on most people's priority list.

    MORE = BETTER. LESS = WORSE. I like more money. More coffee. More vacations. More toys. More time. More options. More choices. More = good.
    Sure, but I'll happily take BB10's ability to do more over BBOS' ability to allow me to do less in more ways.

    Yes, my friend has this phone. The contortion sounds very familar...except that phone was smaller so the contortion was less than on the z10. Plus the torch gave you those dreaded optoins so you didnt' have to rely on those buttons on the bottom of you didnt' want.
    Just like my Z10 and Z30 don't make me use buttons at the bottom either, things have moved on, virtual has won in the mobile device world. It's just taking the BlackBerry community longer than others to adapt.

    You can stop at selecting text more accurately. If they were clumsy....perhaps they were elderly? (rim shot).
    So we can stop at 2009? Selecting text hasn't been a 'power use' of a mobile device for a very long time, but the BlackBerry space and time distortion vortex is still active in many parts of the world.

    Come on, be honest on a touch screen BBOS7 phone when you're on a screen with lots of fields and buttons like creating or editing a Contact do you scroll around to the field you want to type in with the touchpad or do you just tap the screen to put the cursor straight in the text box? The touchpad is a clumsy way of moving between the UI elements of BBOS7, particularly painful in the Browser, it is only an accurate way of positioning the cursor WITHIN a UI element such as a text box whether single line or muti-line (email, text, BBM). For me that's not enough to justify the reintroduction of the touchpad if it means that it takes up space on the front of the phone when it's not needed, which is most of the time in BB10's case.

    But good job and sneaking in more insulting condescension. You must be a hit at parties.
    What the? What on Earth did you find insulting now?! Do you get a lot of people on here having a go at you or something? You seem to be automatically assuming that things I say about OTHERS are aimed directly at you. You're not Marvin the Paranoid Android are you mate?!

    The world has moved on from accuracy? From speed. Hmm...I didnt' read that headline.
    Yep it has if means that screen space is sacrificed so that something can be put on the front of the phone to assist with 'accuracy' for that 0.1% of the time using it that you absolutely must select text accurately within 4 seconds or you'll die.

    Most people want a large wide high res bright screen on their phone without the phone itself being much larger than the screen (narrow bezels). They are perfectly willing to sacrifice text selection accuracy for that. Apple and Samsung don't seem to be losing customers due to lack of "text selection assistance" hardware.

    Great. What does this have to do with swiping?
    Nothing, never said it did. I was talking about what's considered 'power use' in 2014 and it isn't selecting text in 3 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds.

    Soooo.....you didn't' actually conduct any sort of scientific poll? You just listened to them without asking any specific questions.
    Soooo.....you just assumed that I didn't ask them any specific questions because I assumed you wouldn't be presumptuous enough to think that I recorded their feedback without doing exactly such as to not do so would make the data irrelevant by virtue of it being anecdotal and incomparable between users? Come on fella, stop yanking my chain! lol

    I'll take that to mean that you can't really make definitive statements about the percentages of people that have a particular issue they don't like.
    Then you take it wrongly. What would you like to know?

    And one more dig for the road. Thanks everyone...please tip your waiters.
    Huh?! Where was the dig?! Alright Marvin, as the kids say "what evs!" lol

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 02-25-14 at 08:56 PM.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    02-25-14 08:35 PM
  21. IgotsThis's Avatar
    Based on this logic....why make anything faster? Because it's meaningless....right? After all....it only adds up to a few minutes per day. A hours per year. Who needs this time anyway. People with BlackBerry's are usually very casual people with nothing going on anyway.

    After all, whats a few more seconds of looking down at your phone while walking in a crowded airport? Why do you need to look up faster?
    Half a second? Seriously? I don't mind fast, but half a second???? We are gonna add a track pad and take up screen space for the sake of half a second? I'm sorry, but personally that's just ridiculous.
    Ofcourse you would use that example of the airport, that's invalid here. I'll accept the argument of convenience maybe, but definitely not saving half a second


    Posted via CB10
    deptech and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-25-14 08:37 PM
  22. bbzak's Avatar
    Guys!!!!!
    Imaginethe beauty of gestures + trackpad!!!!
    Best of both world's!!!!

    It is not replacing BlackBerry 10 os for God's sake. BlackBerry is gonna make BlackBerry 10 more amazing with the trackpad.

    What we need to do is wait and watch instead of making dubious judgements of a concept which is yet to be revealed in flesh.

    I know a lot of people who will buy q20 or any BlackBerry 10 device with a trackpad.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 08:38 PM
  23. kenicolo's Avatar
    Bring me the slider

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 09:42 PM
  24. Blackberry_Boss's Avatar
    Let just go ahead and end this thread right here. The track pad and belt is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

    Posted via CB10
    deptech and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-25-14 09:44 PM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    Tonight I was trying to edit an html file on my z10 using Noted. I had a hell of a time blocking out the text I wanted to replace with an already copied LINK. I could not easily select the existing 12 characters xxxx.yyy.com. I selected lines above and lines below and characters left and right but getting those and only those characters highlighted took about 15 tries. Since formatting and syntac are important to html, I did not want to accidentally delete or cut out critical data. Give me a POINTER/cursor and the Shift from the old days.
    Another problem with touch is trying to manipulate the selection close to the screen edges. Yeah there are little tricks one can use, but that does not make it simple depending on what you are trying to do.
    ssbtech likes this.
    02-25-14 09:46 PM
657 ... 1718192021 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Well, BlackBerry is fixing (almost) everything!
    By mcstravi in forum News & Rumors
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: 08-21-14, 12:01 PM
  2. Will the Z3 Have NFC?
    By dikku11 in forum BlackBerry Z3
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-24-14, 01:08 PM
  3. Is this possible in Q20 ??
    By AhDucatti in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 03-07-14, 01:27 AM
  4. BlackBerry Classic (aka. Q20) brings the "belt" buttons back
    By Joe Clean in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 03-02-14, 09:16 PM
  5. Q Device Users TrackPad/Button Bar or Without?
    By pkcable in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 02-28-14, 10:54 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD