08-15-14 01:31 PM
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  1. redlightblinking's Avatar
    I never said they weren't a critical function of the phone, etc.
    You're right. You didn't. I didnt' say that you did. most of the conversation was with someone else.

    Earlier you made it seem like you had no idea on-screen buttons on Android were a thing (mentioning that BB10 was the only OS with no "off screen" buttons). .
    Sorry if my use of "off screen" through you off. You've made that point quite clear already that some phones have baked them into the back-lit display. But they still exist......somewhere, unlike on BB10. .
    I'm just showing you what these look like and can do. I'm in no way saying they aren't necessary.
    Thanks for showing. I was essentially wrapping up my ongoing dialog about the existence of these buttons that you seemed to be defending the other poster about. Unlike him, it's clear that you seem to agree that these buttons....albeit in some cases baked into the back-lit display...are there. They exist. They have the same function on all screens... all the time....in the same place....always waiting for you to touch them (unless in some cases you're watching a video I guess) There are the closest equivalent to "the belt" that the other poster said the industry is moving away from and is not necessary. Obviously not.
    Last edited by redlightblinking; 02-25-14 at 03:26 PM. Reason: changed the band, to the belt
    02-25-14 03:13 PM
  2. ssbtech's Avatar
    I can't believe there's so much hate for this decision.

    It's like giving users a choice is a bad thing. Sheesh.



    Some people want the buttons and trackpad - the sort of people who spend lots of time composing messages, editing emails, etc...

    Other people who do little in the way of written communications and don't often run into the issue of cursor precision are complaining that the trackpad isn't part of BB10's swipe and gesture based design. You'd be right, and this isn't the reason the trackpad is coming back.

    Why can't you simply accept that there's a phone with a trackpad for those who want it and a phone without it for those who don't?

    We all want to see BlackBerry succeed, so who are we to complain about BlackBerry offering a device with a feature that could capture a larger audience and improve sales?
    02-25-14 03:35 PM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    Yep, but your thumb holds the phone from the bottom...it's already there. That's why every phone ever made put the buttons on the bottom. So, your not really moving it that far...as opposed the required motion of a swipe.


    Yes, home is....well....home. At this point you need to go somewhere else. But, you still can't menu without stretching your thumb somewhere else.

    Correct me if I'm wrong....but isn't "home" the screen with the live tiles? What is considered "home". Because if home is always swipe up (action one) then swipe left (action two) it's already twice as many actions to get there as any phone with a home button.
    Your swiping up from the bottom, and your thumb is already there as you state, so it is already there. Menu agree but I can still do it easily and I use the menu much less than swipe up.

    What is a home screen on BB10? Is it the open apps screen, the hub, the first launch panel? First two are one gesture away.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 04:00 PM
  4. freedomx20a's Avatar
    It is with big surprise that i post this link:

    The Trackpad, together with its function keys, is apparently coming back to Blackberries phones!!!

    BlackBerry to bring back function keys to win back former fans - The Globe and Mail
    remember a couple months ago John Chen said "we will focus more on qwerty phones" now its like ahhh its true! Bring on the Q30!
    02-25-14 04:06 PM
  5. IgotsThis's Avatar
    You guys fail to realize that a lot of people haven't switched because of
    A- apps
    B- bis
    Hardly anything to do with a damn track pad.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960, johnnyuk, deptech and 1 others like this.
    02-25-14 04:09 PM
  6. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Not if you want to work faster it isn't. You can say same thing for the 9900. Many screens can be menu'd by long pressing somewhere, or you can just quickly hit a key. Why limit choices?
    What isn't fast about tapping the overflow menu virtual button? Or the bottom left category/functional tab/folder button (I forget its proper name). Or swiping down from the top of the screen? It's no slower than the press of a physical menu button, and you don't have to long press the BB10 virtual buttons, you know LONG as in a long time, as in SLOW.

    For what it's worth in BB10 you can still long press to bring up side-menu options on things such as pictures and photos or text or links or anything actionable, invocable or shareable.

    On limiting choices, it was seen by many, including tech media product reviewers, that by BBOS7 there were too many ways of doing the same things. In other words there were redundant ways of doing things in the user interface that were still there along side new ways of doing the same thing. This was as a result of having to design a user interface that worked on a mixture of phones with no touch screen and just the 'belt' for navigation with a physical Qwerty keyboard, phones with a touch screen and the 'belt' and the Qwerty, AND phones with just a touch screen and the 'belt'.

    For example, on a 9900 long pressing the touch screen can bring up a quick menu, but long pressing the touch pad does the same thing. At the same time pressing the Menu physical button brings up a full menu with all the same options as the quick menu and more (but in no particular order, not even alphabetical, and hard to navigate on a small screen). It was crying out to be cleaned up and simplified and on the whole the BB10 UI did a good job of that clean-up.

    I just hope that bringing back the touchpad and function keys doesn't add too many redundant ways of doing things to BB10 as in my experience in the workplace as a BES Admin the redundant ways of doing things in BBOS7 made it harder for users to learn so they would become very polarised. They would either only use the touch screen and avoid the touch pad or only use the touch pad and avoid the touch screen. If the average user used a mixture of both they would struggle to remember how to do everything! These are not tech savvy tech forum inhabiting geeks I'm talking about here, just normal everyday people with office jobs.

    Because there isn't always a back button. If I'm in an app, or the hub, and want to go back to the previous app, or home...there is no quick button press to do this. You must do something that is more intensive and particular and takes slightly longer. For power users this gets old really quick.
    More intensive? Swipe up and tap the app you want to switch to. That's intensive? Don't mean to be rude but my god you must get out of breath getting our of your chair! Lol

    Pressing the Back button in BBOS doesn't take you back to the previous app either. It take a you back the previous screen in the app you are IN and then it finally takes you back to the home screen where you must navigate to and select the previous app you were in. If you didn't close the previous app you were in you can long hold the Menu button and select it after scrolling through the list of running apps, but which sounds more 'intensive' to you? All that or swipe up then tap?

    Within a native BB10 app if the Back button is hidden you can always swipe from from left to right to go back. In Android apps if you have chosen to hide the Back button you swipe diagonally up either left or right from the bottom of the screen.

    Trust me I am more of a power user of BB10 phone than most. As well as having a very busy Exchange mailbox hooked up along side multiple personal mailboxes and social media accounts I'm a BES Admin, Exchange Admin, Active Directory Admin and an Admin of many other servers and systems. I administer them all (and look after my BlackBerry users) through my Z30 and Z10 phones when I'm not at my desk such is the power of BB10 on BES10. And it is effortless to navigate around all touch BB10 phones with virtual buttons and gestures, EFFORTLESS, intuitive and strangely pleasing and satisfying!

    Except to make operation go faster and easier.
    My friend there is only one thing that makes BB10's touch gestures and virtual buttons slower to use than dedicated hardware buttons and controls to the point where it becomes a problem and that is simply the competence of the user. Perhaps all touch interfaces are just not for you? Perhaps they and you just don't get along? I see this happen occasionally with my users, particularly the elderly, some need far more tuition in the use of IT in general and are easily thrown off course by change. Occasionally some people just never quite "get it".

    I think some sort of virtual version would be a good compromise. The other advantage of the track pad was that it served as yet another button with it's own menu. It was an "enter" button as well. It was yet another short cut to get things done fast and move to the next without straining your fingers and thumb with endless contortions.
    Yep it was "yet another" and "yet another" as in it 'offered' more redundant ways of doing the same things (see above).

    I agree that a virtual trackpad would be the best compromise, especially on all touch phones, I don't want to see dedicated function buttons and a touchpad come to the Z series.

    Actually that reminds me, on the point of having to contort your thumbs, did you ever use a full touch Torch 9860? I still have one and with it being the longest BBOS7 phone ever made, the way you have to hold it if you're trying to use it one handed means that if you were tapping something near the top of the screen with your thumb and then needed to press one of those oh so 'convenient' physical dedicated function keys or the trackpad at the bottom of the screen you had to awkwardly and occasionally painfully contort your thumb by doubling it over inwards whilst moving it down towards the bottom. Or resort to having to use your other hand. It was never a smooth and satisfying action to have to take!

    You see, it's swings and roundabouts with the BBOS7 range. What is an effective design idea on one of the form factors in that range doesn't necessarily work well on another, such was the variety. I don't want to see those kinds of compromises appear in the BB10 range. Designs that try to be all things to all people end up not being very good at being anything to anyone.

    They have always appealed to people who don't care about power use, more about form and cool, and apps.
    What exactly are these 'power uses' one gets from a touchpad on a BBOS7 phone that legacy stalwarts always go on and on about? Let's list them. Selecting text more accurately, clumsily and slowly navigating around the fields and buttons on the screen, scrolling, bringing up a quick cut-down menu and using it as an alternative for pressing the Enter key.

    The last 4 are redundant on a touch screen BBOS7 phone, and the last one is redundant on any BBOS7 phone! Physical Qwerty BBOS7 phones get a DEDICATED Enter key! Wow! I want one! Lol

    Have I pointed out the redundancy of all these ways of doing the same thing enough yet?! Lol

    Anyway, in the work place those things I listed, well some of them, hmm maybe just the accurate text selection, was considered a 'power feature' in around 2009/2010 but the world has moved on.

    'Power features' in the workplace in 2014 are all about the secure separation of work and private data, document editing support, synchronisation of data with in-house and cloud hosted storage, remote access to internal systems and applications, rich media content handling, streaming and downloading/uploading, a Browser that works as well as one on the desktop, access to the Apps that are useful in the Work place, geolocation services, the list goes on and on and mostly exceeds what BBOS could ever handle.

    Even synchronistaion with your Exchange mailbox is considered so run of the mill and ordinary now that it's just expected of any mobile device nowadays, mobile email is not a 'power feature' any more.

    It's great to hear other perspectives. Just curious, did you actually conduct a survey of everyone that you admin, or are you just basing this on those that have or have not complained to you?
    Thanks, it's nice to be able to discuss these things from a 'world of work' point of view rather than a consumer on the sofa point of view lol

    The initial survey was by way of allowing each user a day with a Q10 and a day with a Z10 so that they could make an informed choice after trying both. Since then feedback has been recorded during both organised training sessions on particular topics and drop-in sessions where they can come along and find out how to do something that's bugging them or get a problem sorted out.

    The feedback on BB10 phones as a whole is overwhelmingly positive, largely due to the excellent virtual keyboard and BlackBerry Work Drives which gives users access to their work documents on network drives while mobile (and Sharepoint too).

    Even people who in their personal lives are iPhone fan boys and fan girls have admitted they love their Z10s! The few Q10 users are just those types of people who don't like change or don't get on with all touch screens and can't leave their physical Qwerty habits behind lol

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    Last edited by johnnyuk; 02-25-14 at 04:32 PM.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    02-25-14 04:15 PM
  7. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I disagree. I know lots of power users that don't care about apps or BIS. They also don't have a lot of patience to learn new OS features. They just want the basics. It sounds like this phone will be perfect for them.
    You guys fail to realize that a lot of people haven't switched because of
    A- apps
    B- bis
    Hardly anything to do with a damn track pad.

    Posted via CB10
    klhman475 likes this.
    02-25-14 04:17 PM
  8. deptech's Avatar
    Forget "physical". Change the semantics to permanent. They all have basic navigation "buttons" (physical, virtual,...whatever) waiting for your hovering thumb to simply touch them at any time to get you somewhere. No swiping required.

    I never said anything about any "issues navigating". It's about efficiency....speed. A swipe, by it's very nature is less efficient, regardless of how many you need to do.
    It has nothing to do with efficiency, the difference in time to perform each of those functions is less than a second, it's moot.

    Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada
    02-25-14 04:30 PM
  9. sleepngbear's Avatar
    On limiting choices, it was seen by many, including tech media product reviewers, that by BBOS7 there were too many ways of doing the same things. In other words there were redundant ways of doing things in the user interface that were still there along side new ways of doing the same thing. This was as a result of having to design a user interface that worked on a mixture of phones with no touch screen and just the 'belt' for navigation with a physical Qwerty keyboard, phones with a touch screen and the 'belt' and the Qwerty, AND phones with just a touch screen and the 'belt'.
    Because -- and I don't care if I get flamed for this, because nobody will convince me it isn't true -- some product reviewers will find anything to bury BB for. No I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a realist -- I said 'some' reviewers. How is two different ways of doing something too many ways of doing the same thing? That's ridiculous. If it was a problem for developers, then it sure wasn't a problem for users. Some used one method, some used the other; but I'll bet most, like me, used both. In fact, one of my biggest complaints with iOS is that there's only one way to do many things, and if you don't know what that one way is, you're screwed until you can get to your nearest internet connection to Google it. And no, I am not an Apple hater, either -- I'm on a Mac at this very moment.

    The point is, it's a matter of choice and a matter of what the user is comfortable with. Competence has nothing to do with it.
    02-25-14 04:35 PM
  10. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    I was thinking? Should BlackBerry have launched firstly a version of bbos10 with the belt design, get os7 users on board then progress up to os10 current models? Do you think this progression would have been better for business?

    Posted Via CB10/SQN100-3 on official 10.2.1.537/1925
    WhiteBerry likes this.
    02-25-14 04:37 PM
  11. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I think they should have, but hindsight is 20/20. Hopefully this phone will get more people on board BB10.
    I was thinking? Should BlackBerry have launched firstly a version of bbos10 with the belt design, get os7 users on board then progress up to os10 current models? Do you think this progression would have been better for business?

    Posted Via CB10/SQN100-3 on official 10.2.1.537/1925
    02-25-14 04:45 PM
  12. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The problem we are having is that both the Q and Z models needed to be updated. They need to bring out a Z20 at the same time.







    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-25-14 04:48 PM
  13. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Yep, but your thumb holds the phone from the bottom...it's already there. That's why every phone ever made put the buttons on the bottom. So, your not really moving it that far...as opposed the required motion of a swipe.
    When you hold a phone with TWO hands your thumbs are free to hover over the lower half of the screen which is why most, but not all, phones put their buttons in the lower half.

    That makes sense for a phone like the Q10 with all those keys in the bottom half but, for the all touch Z10 for example, most people either hold the phone in one hand so that the thumb is free to move more around the middle of the screen with the ability to stretch to either the top or the bottom OR they hold the phone in one hand and peck at the screen with the index finger of their other hand.

    The larger Z30 is harder but not impossible to use single handed unless you have particularly large hands to make it easier (mine aren't), so people are more likely to either hold with one hand and peck with the other or hold with two hands and use both thumbs.

    For me when I'm typing a lot on my Z30 I actually adopt a hybrid of the last two. I hold it in my left hand with my little finger along the bottom supporting it and the thumb free to type on the left side of the keyboard while I type on the right side of the keyboard with the index finger of my right hand.

    If I'm not doing a lot of typing then I hold it in either hand and just use the thumb of that hand to navigate and swipe words up from the amazing virtual keyboard.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    02-25-14 04:57 PM
  14. craftEcowgirl's Avatar
    "Within a native BB10 app if the Back button is hidden you can always swipe from from left to right to go back. In Android apps if you have chosen to hide the Back button you swipe diagonally up either left or right from the bottom of the screen."

    I cant get the swipe from bottom left/right and diagonally to work in android apps??? Is there a trick to it?


    Q10, running 10.2.1.2141
    02-25-14 05:13 PM
  15. lnichols's Avatar
    I was thinking? Should BlackBerry have launched firstly a version of bbos10 with the belt design, get os7 users on board then progress up to os10 current models? Do you think this progression would have been better for business?

    Posted Via CB10/SQN100-3 on official 10.2.1.537/1925
    The trackpad has not slowed business adoption. Again BES10 wasn't ready ready till Summer 2013. They shortly after out up the for sale sign. Businesses and government have longer testing cycles to go through. BlackBerry's reputation during these debacles took a further toll on them and people gave other options more of a look.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-25-14 05:17 PM
  16. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Your swiping up from the bottom, and your thumb is already there as you state, so it is already there.
    Posted via CB10
    Only if you're going "home", whatever that is. Anything else, you thumb does something completely different. And no matter what it is, its more movement (and more precision requied...I sometimes have to do it twice) that simply a millimeter movement of a tap.

    Menu agree but I can still do it easily and I use the menu much less than swipe up.
    If you consider "easy" to be reaching up to the top of the bezel in some cases. Sometimes it's right where it should be....or sometimes is left where it should be. It's not consistent.


    What is a home screen on BB10? Is it the open apps screen, the hub, the first launch panel?

    Posted via CB10
    Are you guessing? That seemed a bit ambiguous. If it the open apps screen...it's two swipes away. If its't the stuff that's already running, it's one swipe, if it's the hub, it's one or two depending one where you are.
    02-25-14 05:25 PM
  17. redlightblinking's Avatar
    It has nothing to do with efficiency, the difference in time to perform each of those functions is less than a second, it's moot.

    Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada
    So, time doesn't equal efficiency? You just admitted that one takes longer than the other....and it's more labor intensive. So, for every time you use your z10, it takes twice as long (1 second instead of half a second). Do that over and over and over and over and over and over. Every day and night. I'd like my seconds back please.

    Imaging if you had to play a video game, and instead of a button....you had to swipe for every command. It's moot.....right? No difference....right?
    02-25-14 05:28 PM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    Only if you're going "home", whatever that is. Anything else, you thumb does something completely different. And no matter what it is, its more movement (and more precision requied...I sometimes have to do it twice) that simply a millimeter movement of a tap.



    If you consider "easy" to be reaching up to the top of the bezel in some cases. Sometimes it's right where it should be....or sometimes is left where it should be. It's not consistent.




    Are you guessing? That seemed a bit ambiguous. If it the open apps screen...it's two swipes away. If its't the stuff that's already running, it's one swipe, if it's the hub, it's one or two depending one where you are.
    No just trying to figure out what you think the home screen is. It is an archaic concept IMHO and not relevant to BB10. Not sure what is wrong with your device but I can get into the hub with one movement from any app, any screen, at any time with the swipe up and hook to the left gesture. We aren't going to get anywhere, you feel the BBOS buttons are quicker based on your experience, and I feel they are not based on mine.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 05:34 PM
  19. lnichols's Avatar
    So, time doesn't equal efficiency? You just admitted that one takes longer than the other....and it's more labor intensive. So, for every time you use your z10, it takes twice as long (1 second instead of half a second). Do that over and over and over and over and over and over. Every day and night. I'd like my seconds back please.

    Imaging if you had to play a video game, and instead of a button....you had to swipe for every command. It's moot.....right? No difference....right?
    Again sounds like you are assuming it is slower for everyone because you feel it is for yourself. Others find the BBOS way of doing things much slower with buttons than they do with BB10 gestures.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 05:36 PM
  20. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Blackberry should have released this device instead of the Q10. Intriguing device, however I'm not sure if can go back to using a physical keyboard. Hopefully they take their time and release a solid device.


    Sent from my  using Tapatalk
    02-25-14 05:47 PM
  21. johnnyuk's Avatar
    How is two different ways of doing something too many ways of doing the same thing? That's ridiculous.

    If it was a problem for developers, then it sure wasn't a problem for users. Some used one method, some used the other; but I'll bet most, like me, used both.
    I later gave an example of 3 ways of doing the same thing on a BBOS phone with a touch screen. Starting to get more unnecessary now?

    I'm just playing devils advocate. When I read reviewers pointing it out back in 2011 I was surprised at first myself as I hadn't thought about it as a downside but I could see their point of view. In BBOS7 there are redundant ways of doing something that have to still be there on the top of the range phones because they are the ONLY way to do something on the bottom of the range phones.

    I guess the context of why that might be seen as a negative is that, by 2011, iOS with its uncluttered and simple user interface had really taken the world by storm. Android was gaining huge ground and although there were superficially different user interfaces for it from different manufactures they all conformed to the same user interface principles with little redundancy.

    So then I came to rolling out BBOS7 phones to my users and train them up. They were coming from BBOS5 with no touch screen. It became evident that those who weren't tech savvy and didn't learn new user interfaces and new ways of interacting with technology quickly and easily became confused by the number of ways of doing the same things in the BBOS7 user interface on their 9900s.

    They'd ask "How do I do such and such" and I'd demonstrate. But I knew that there was more than one way to start off doing what they wanted to see. I could either show them navigating using the touchpad then pressing and holding the touchpad to bring up a quick menu then using the touchpad to highlight an option and select it OR in could show them navigating using the touch screen, pressing and holding the touch screen to bring up a quick menu and then tapping one OR I could show them a mixture of both.

    What I soon discovered was if I showed them both ways or a mixture, starting using the touchpad, then use the touch screen, then back to the touch pad they would invariably forgot how to do the whole procedure!

    It was information overload and puzzling for them, and it led to the polarisation I mentioned. They would either gravitate to exclusively using the touch screen, or exclusively using the touchpad and rarely ever both. Only the most tech savvy of my users ended up using both the touchpad and the touch screen frequently and fluidly when using the phone.

    In fact, one of my biggest complaints with iOS is that there's only one way to do many things, and if you don't know what that one way is, you're screwed until you can get to your nearest internet connection to Google it.
    Well, I'm referring more to the ways of doing things using the user interface specifically, not so much things like "I'm a Windows user, how the hell do I get my Camera photos off my iPhone on to my computer? iTunes for Windows only puts the photos that are on my computer on to my phone, not the other way around!". That's not a user interface issue.

    The simplicity of the iOS user interface does frustrate me at times but I have expectations of a mobile computing device beyond that of which Apple are willing to meet it would seem. It has become a little more powerful with iOS7, although I hate the new colour scheme!

    The point is, it's a matter of choice and a matter of what the user is comfortable with. Competence has nothing to do with it.
    Those two sentences contradict each other. A user can't be comfortable with a device's user interface if they are not competent in using it.

    Lack of competency leads to frustration, negativity and disengagement from wanting to use the device frequently to assist in daily work life. It goes in a desk drawer and stays there.

    I train people in using mobile device user interfaces as part of my job. I know this stuff lol.


    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    Shadowyugi and Omnitech like this.
    02-25-14 05:52 PM
  22. Ray III's Avatar
    Awesome news! I may finally be able to buy a BB10 phone.
    02-25-14 06:02 PM
  23. keepthetorch's Avatar
    BELFAST!!!!! Your prediction coming true is causing quite a stir!! Only YOU can stop the INSANITY!!! Being the "instigator" you should be ashamed
    johnnyuk and Shadowyugi like this.
    02-25-14 06:03 PM
  24. glyix's Avatar
    Why all the hate on the track pad and belt? It's a ******* great plan and I am all for it. If you don't like it then don't buy it, that simple.


    For me personally, I have had the Q10 for just over a month on Verizon in the states and I'm not satisfied. Maybe it's because I'm still not on 10.2 yet, but I just feel like there is something missing on this phone and the trackpad with the send and end buttons make the most sense, not so much the back and berries buttons.

    Don't get me wrong BB10 is a great upgrade from OS7, and the phone itself is awesome with its speed and battery life but it's missing the belt Imo. More specifically the send, end, and trackpad because for me when I'm driving or on the go nothing beats using the buttons to make calls frequently and the trackpad to fix my mistakes.

    Now hopefully it comes out soon and not in a year and a half. It's bull**** how they are coming out with these phones and still haven't updated the damn OS on the current devices...

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 06:22 PM
  25. redlightblinking's Avatar
    What isn't fast about tapping the overflow menu virtual button? Or the bottom left category/functional tab/folder button (I forget its proper name). Or swiping down from the top of the screen? It's no slower than the press of a physical menu button, and you don't have to long press the BB10 virtual buttons, you know LONG as in a long time, as in SLOW.
    Say WHAT? Touch at the bottom that your finger is hovering over isn't faster than a swipe...then why not just have video game controllers make you swipe for every single command? Because it takes LONGER.


    On limiting choices, it was seen by many, including tech media product reviewers, that by BBOS7 there were too many ways of doing the same things. In other words there were redundant ways of doing things in the user interface that were still there along side new ways of doing the same thing. This was as a result of having to design a user interface that worked on a mixture of phones with no touch screen and just the 'belt' for navigation with a physical Qwerty keyboard, phones with a touch screen and the 'belt' and the Qwerty, AND phones with just a touch screen and the 'belt'.

    For example, on a 9900 long pressing the touch screen can bring up a quick menu, but long pressing the touch pad does the same thing. At the same time pressing the Menu physical button brings up a full menu with all the same options as the quick menu and more (but in no particular order, not even alphabetical, and hard to navigate on a small screen). It was crying out to be cleaned up and simplified and on the whole the BB10 UI did a good job of that clean-up.
    Sure, I get that. But people got used to choices. Heck, computers give you many ways to do the same thing. Nothing wrong with that. Not messy and nothing to clean up. Some do one way, some another.

    More intensive? Swipe up and tap the app you want to switch to. That's intensive? Don't mean to be rude but my god you must get out of breath getting our of your chair! Lol
    Of course it is. Do you type keys on your keyboard at your computer....or do you swipe them? Which is more intensive? It's amazing that people can't admit that moving your finger a centimeter is less that moving it one to two inches.

    Pressing the Back button in BBOS doesn't take you back to the previous app either. It take a you back the previous screen in the app you are IN and then it finally takes you back to the home screen where you must navigate to and select the previous app you were in. If you didn't close the previous app you were in you can long hold the Menu button and select it after scrolling through the list of running apps, but which sounds more 'intensive' to you? All that or swipe up then tap?
    Sorry, this is wrong. Just did a test to confirm. Say you are in email,, then you press the phone button (or get a call). From phone screen press back to get to email. If you open attachments or links...same thing....you go back in the order you got there. Or open a link from email...press back to leave the browser...back to the emial....then back again to the mail email list....then back again to get home. OR bypass all of this at any time and press the home key (power/hangup). If you went somewhere from somewhere else...you don't need to do the Steve Jobs shuffle and go home then go back out again...or double tape to get the apps you are running and pick it....or swipe up and then find the app you want.....You just go back. SImple.

    And it is effortless to navigate around all touch BB10 phones with virtual buttons and gestures, EFFORTLESS, intuitive and strangely pleasing and satisfying!
    Which is more effortless...touching or reaching and swiping?

    My friend there is only one thing that makes BB10's touch gestures and virtual buttons slower to use than dedicated hardware buttons and controls to the point where it becomes a problem and that is simply the competence of the user. Perhaps all touch interfaces are just not for you? Perhaps they and you just don't get along? I see this happen occasionally with my users, particularly the elderly, some need far more tuition in the use of IT in general and are easily thrown off course by change. Occasionally some people just never quite "get it".

    Well, if you were going for the condescending statement of the day award, you win. But nice job and starting out with the sarcastic "my friend". Here's the thing....I know how to swipe. I do it with no problem despite your efforts to change the subject to "user error...you must be elderly". Simple physics...the universal laws of nature....DEFINE that a swipe take longer and more effort that a tap. Regardless of how much you love it. It's undeniable physics...no matter how insignificant it may be to some people with lots of time on their hands and nothing else to do (Am I in the running for the award now?)

    Yep it was "yet another" and "yet another" as in it 'offered' more redundant ways of doing the same things (see above).
    MORE = BETTER. LESS = WORSE. I like more money. More coffee. More vacations. More toys. More time. More options. More choices. More = good.

    Actually that reminds me, on the point of having to contort your thumbs, did you ever use a full touch Torch 9860? I still have one and with it being the longest BBOS7 phone ever made, the way you have to hold it if you're trying to use it one handed means that if you were tapping something near the top of the screen with your thumb and then needed to press one of those oh so 'convenient' physical dedicated function keys or the trackpad at the bottom of the screen you had to awkwardly and occasionally painfully contort your thumb by doubling it over inwards whilst moving it down towards the bottom. Or resort to having to use your other hand. It was never a smooth and satisfying action to have to take!
    Yes, my friend has this phone. The contortion sounds very familar...except that phone was smaller so the contortion was less than on the z10. Plus the torch gave you those dreaded optoins so you didnt' have to rely on those buttons on the bottom of you didnt' want.

    What exactly are these 'power uses' one gets from a touchpad on a BBOS7 phone that legacy stalwarts always go on and on about? Let's list them. Selecting text more accurately, clumsily and slowly navigating around the fields and buttons on the screen, scrolling, bringing up a quick cut-down menu and using it as an alternative for pressing the Enter key.
    You can stop at selecting text more accurately. If they were clumsy....perhaps they were elderly? (rim shot).

    But good job and sneaking in more insulting condescension. You must be a hit at parties.


    Anyway, in the work place those things I listed, well some of them, hmm maybe just the accurate text selection, was considered a 'power feature' in around 2009/2010 but the world has moved on.

    '
    The world has moved on from accuracy? From speed. Hmm...I didnt' read that headline.




    'Power features' in the workplace in 2014 are all about the secure separation of work and private data, document editing support, synchronisation of data with in-house and cloud hosted storage, remote access to internal systems and applications, rich media content handling, streaming and downloading/uploading, a Browser that works as well as one on the desktop, access to the Apps that are useful in the Work place, geolocation services, the list goes on and on and mostly exceeds what BBOS could ever handle.

    Even synchronistaion with your Exchange mailbox is considered so run of the mill and ordinary now that it's just expected of any mobile device nowadays, mobile email is not a 'power feature' any more.
    Great. What does this have to do with swiping?



    The initial survey was by way of allowing each user a day with a Q10 and a day with a Z10 so that they could make an informed choice after trying both. Since then feedback has been recorded during both organised training sessions on particular topics and drop-in sessions where they can come along and find out how to do something that's bugging them or get a problem sorted out.
    Soooo.....you didn't' actually conduct any sort of scientific poll? You just listened to them without asking any specific questions. I'll take that to mean that you can't really make definitive statements about the percentages of people that have a particular issue they don't like.


    The few Q10 users are just those types of people who don't like change or don't get on with all touch screens and can't leave their physical Qwerty habits behind lol
    And one more dig for the road. Thanks everyone...please tip your waiters.
    02-25-14 06:23 PM
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