[Legal Eagle]

Yup, it might not even make it into stores. If it does it would be with a fraction of current carriers.

No change then from the current BB10 devices !!!

[ssbtech]

Did anyone mention that this might be the first BB10 device that's usable while wearing gloves?

My 9800's trackpad and buttons remained functional when I was wearing gloves. I miss that on my Z10.

[belfastdispatcher]

Did anyone mention that this might be the first BB10 device that's usable while wearing gloves?

My 9800's trackpad and buttons remained functional when I was wearing gloves. I miss that on my Z10.

Indeed, I was scanning some negatives last night and kept having to take the cotton gloves off to use the iphone. So annoying.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

[MiSsY_]

Before that thread I predicted the return of the trackpad and the rest of the buttons.

Well, not really predicted, I was told. Maybe you should start listening to what I say


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

If we listened to every thing you "preached", then we should by all rights have ditched our BB's ages ago and we would also be assured that this a complete and utter rumour, there is no such device on its way because BlackBerry is not making consumer devices because this utterly garbage phone is definitely leaving the consumer market.
Although that's if we listened to what you say.......


I'm interested to know how Q10 and Q5 users who have gotten used to not having it there feel about it? I find I'm pretty thrown off to begin with when I have to pick up a 9900 or a torch.
What I'm more curious about is whether putting that bar back is the plan for future Q devices, while leaving the Z series full touch and button free.

Posted via CB10 from my Z30

[MiSsY_]

Also saw someone mention something about doing away with the swipe up, I don't know how they intend to implement it with the trackpad back, but doing away with it changes more then just exiting out of things, if the swipe up gesture is no longer there, you can't peek anymore. That changes how the entire OS works, and I don't see them running different OS on keyboard devices vs full touch

Posted via CB10 from my Z30

[deptech]

This move is to please business users, not consumers.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

Business users are consumers as well, we are all consumers. These extra buttons will not guarantee anything except appeasing some legacy users, it is a gamble as far as sales is concerned, no one can predict the future.

Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada

[Bbnivende]

Do we know whether this device is going to be made by Foxconn ?

Do we know whether the screen is going to be 1 to 1 or 3:4 ? or is it some new strange format ?

[deercreekmichael]

In many countries, OS 7 devices still outsell BB10 devices. This is a way to get users off of OS 7 without leaving BlackBerry.

[Bbnivende]

Business users are consumers as well, we are all consumers. These extra buttons will not guarantee anything except appeasing some legacy users, it is a gamble as far as sales is concerned, no one can predict the future.

Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada

It is not a gamble. Sales of the Q10 are not stellar and neither will the sales of this device. It is a niche market. If Foxconn makes it then it will be their gamble.

[deptech]

In many countries, OS 7 devices still outsell BB10 devices. This is a way to get users off of OS 7 without leaving BlackBerry.

There are other methods to get legacy users onto BB10, they can add more OS7 functionality, financial incentives, target marketing (any marketing), trade in....

Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada

[waterfrontmgmt]

I think it's a smart move. Many of the typical BlackBerry power users are not that technically savvy. I'm looking forward to it.

[redlightblinking]

There are other methods to get legacy users onto BB10, they can add more OS7 functionality, financial incentives, target marketing (any marketing), trade in....

Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada

OS7 functionality, you mean like....not have to be a slave to a touch screen and having dedicated buttons (or areas) to touch to do things that you do 800 times per day? Yes, I agree, bring back that functionality.

Financial incentives? You need that for soccer moms and teenagers. Power user don't need a financial incentive, they will buy whatever phone works best for them, regardless of cost. Marketing isn't an incentive. They already know the phone exists....they are BB fans already..they passed and kept their 9900. They don't care about trade in....they prefer the phone they've got.

[kbz1960]

In many countries, OS 7 devices still outsell BB10 devices. This is a way to get users off of OS 7 without leaving BlackBerry.

And do they sell because of the belt or cheap BIS plans?

[Qwerty guy]

I believe Foxconn is making it as referenced in this article from the Guardian in the UK. Also reference that Chen said BlackBerry were working on high end devices too although no quotes:

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...iness-keyboard

Posted via CB10

[freedomx20a]

There is a reason bb7 outsells bb10 still! The pad!!!

? BlackBerry Q10 ?

[johnnyuk]

Jumping in here without reading the whole thread so sorry if I'm covering old grounds here but....

I hope that the trackpad and, if they are also to return, the physical function keys aren't going to resemble exactly 'the belt' of keys from legacy BBOS phones, call accept, menu, trackpad, back and call end. They really shouldn't, it should be smarter than that.

Why would the user need the physical menu button? There is no single menu in BB10 in the BBOS sense of a menu. There is an overflow menu (3 dots) but there are functional area tabs on the left too, which should the menu button bring up? Perhaps it should mimic the swipe down from the top for Quick Settings and app settings, but then not all apps have their Settings button there, sometimes it's in the overflow menu?
Maybe the menu button should cycle between all 3 of those places? Rather impractical and unnecessary though isn't it?!

Along the same vein, why would the user need a physical back button when there is usually a virtual back button on-screen and you can usually swipe from left to right to go back anyway?

I can imagine the physical call accept and call end buttons returning, at least they have a specific purpose that directly correlates to a function on the handset. For the trackpad however I hope BlackBerry do something smarter and more innovative than just the same old trackpad that has been on BBOS phones for years. I like the idea of the physical keyboard allowing gestures to be performed by running your fingers over the keys, or perhaps a specific large key like the space bar. This means that extra space isn't required above the keyboard for the old style trackpad.

On the whole I'm not in favour of the return of the legacy belt of physical keys and / or physical trackpad. With a touch screen and the way BB10 is designed there is simply no pressing need for their return. Sure a trackpad does make text selection easier, but that's not something that EVERYONE spends all day long doing, a minority will do it a lot but not enough to justify the return of the trackpad at the expense of handset design elegance, function and form.

Text selection on iOS, Android and Windows Phone is also fiddly on touch screens, but that doesn't seem to have hindered their success in any way does it?! Bringing back the touchpad is pandering to a vocal minority who aren't going to make a difference to BB10 phone sales figures.

No offence intended to anyone, just my point of view and opinion as a BESAdmin with real world Enterprise experience on this matter. My 99% all touch BB10 phone users at work don't miss the trackpad and physical function keys one bit, or the physical Qwerty keyboard. Only 1% of my users chose a Q10 over a Z10 after trying both for a day!

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

[deptech]

OS7 functionality, you mean like....not have to be a slave to a touch screen and having dedicated buttons (or areas) to touch to do things that you do 800 times per day? Yes, I agree, bring back that functionality.

Financial incentives? You need that for soccer moms and teenagers. Power user don't need a financial incentive, they will buy whatever phone works best for them, regardless of cost. Marketing isn't an incentive. They already know the phone exists....they are BB fans already..they passed and kept their 9900. They don't care about trade in....they prefer the phone they've got.

I'm not a slave to my touch screen, that's a bit harsh. A good example of OS7 functionality is "Themes", I would love the ability to customize my device in that manner. I'm not a soccer mom but I do like a sale as do many people, I would much prefer to buy something on sale, and many wait for that sale before they buy. If you are not aware of the awesomeness of the Z30 or OS10.2.1 (for example) then don't expect too many sales, Marketing is a must. I'm not sure why they are on legacy devices, and I don't pretend to know, but BlackBerry could try to entice them with an offer they can't refuse, nothing wrong with trying.

Z30 on 10.2.1.537 in Canada

[lnichols]

And so it's always two taps to get to your call screen. With a dedicated button it's always there in one press no matter what app. I make a lot of calls.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

No not two taps. One tap.

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

I'm replying to a post from a different user. Maybe you should read the rest of the context before butting in..

What does this have to do with me asking you for clarification or your continued refusal to answer? Regardless of who you might have been talking to before?

Or, they can switch to BB10 devices like the Z10 and Z30 if people even knew they existed. .

You're actually claiming that BB users DON'T KNOW the new BB's exist? That's what you're going with?

Again, please STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION. BB10 devices (Z10 and Z30) are not the only devices on the market that are full touch.

And yet you still name not one. Forget a "software" key or physical "click" key.....they have buttons of some sort.....always there....waiting for you to touch them them. Only BB requires you do to a more labor intensive process.

All other phones? Again, you are LYING. There are Android devices that only have a standby button and volume keys. Just like WP devices as well. Software keys are NOT physical buttons.

Where do you buy your hair splitter? Who cares if the button is physical or not. If BB had a software belt of buttons, does that completely change your position on this?

It's not just me. The market is moving away from buttons. Again, I am not going to go over this, but if you are blind to see what is going on in this industry, I don't know what to tell you.

You mean physical "click" buttons? AND? Why the endless obsession and re-definition of the button? Phones still have keys at the bottom for dedicated tasks, especially a home and back and menu. They can't operate without them. Call me blind all you want but any web search or visit to the phone store will reveal this to you.

Again, misinformation. Stop please and go educate yourself on what is available on the market. .

How about proving it wrong then? Please show what you mean. Please show a phone that operates without some basic keys at the bottom always waiting for your finger to do the same task. Now, apparently on some phones, some of these keys can disappear for media modes, but for the most part they live there all the time with only one function.

The majority of them are not PHYSICAL keys. .

And yet more obsession with physical vs. non-click. So, I'll ask yet again...if the BB belt is non-physical....is it ok?

I am not responding to you anymore, and I am putting you on ignore. You seem to be unable to know what a physical key is (something you press and has a tactile feel) and a software key. You also seem to think you can make your point by making things up to someone who OWNS A NEXUS DEVICE THAT HAS NO KEYS BESIDES VOLUME AND STANDBY..

That's HILARIOUS. You own a phone with dedicated keys but can't bring yourself to admit that your phone has dedicated keys (or buttons, or whatever semantics you want to use.) Instead you change the subject to.....quote...."something you press and has a tactile feel". You, sir, are a master of evasion. Well played.

The market is moving away from keys wether you want to recognize it or not. Just because the iPhone has ONE button, doesn't mean the entire market is able to "deal with physical keys". Once iOS is reworked from the ground up, it most likely will not be there.

Change the subject all you want to "physical" if that suits your argument. And, feel free to speculate about the Iphone too if that helps you. Clearly, you can't show how......even on your own phone....how the market has moved away from keys. If they didn't have the keys/soft buttons/ hard buttons....how would you operate them?

[bluesjr01]

Wish they would make one with a rotary dial, if you're gonna go retro.

Posted on my BlackBerry Q10, because I'm so Bloody Special.

[dejanh]

Jumping in here without reading the whole thread so sorry if I'm covering old grounds here but....

I hope that the trackpad and, if they are also to return, the physical function keys aren't going to resemble exactly 'the belt' of keys from legacy BBOS phones, call accept, menu, trackpad, back and call end. They really shouldn't, it should be smarter than that.

Why would the user need the physical menu button? There is no menu in BB10 in the BBOS sense of a menu. There is an overflow menu (3 dots) but there are functional area tabs on the left too, which should the menu button bring up? Perhaps it should mimic the swipe down from the top for Quick Settings and app settings, but then not all apps have their Settings button there, sometimes it's in the overflow menu?
Maybe the menu button should cycle between all 3 of those places? Rather impractical and unnecessary though isn't it?!

Along the same vein, why would the user need a physical back button when there is usually a virtual back button on-screen and you can usually swipe from left to right to go back anyway?

I can imagine the physical call accept and call end buttons returning, at least they have a specific purpose that directly correlates to a function on the handset. For the trackpad however I hope BlackBerry do something smarter and more innovative than just the same old trackpad that has been on BBOS phones for years. I like the idea of the physical keyboard allowing gestures to be performed by running your fingers over the keys, or perhaps a specific large key like the space bar. This means that extra space isn't required above the keyboard for the old style trackpad.

On the whole I'm not in favour of the return of the legacy belt of physical keys and / or physical trackpad. With a touch screen and the way BB10 is designed there is simply no pressing need for their return. Sure a trackpad does make text selection easier, but that's not something that EVERYONE spends all day long doing, a minority will do it a lot but not enough to justify the return of the trackpad at the expense of handset design elegance, function and form.

Text selection on iOS, Android and Windows Phone is also fiddly on touch screens, but that doesn't seem to have hindered their success in any way does it?! Bringing back the touchpad is pandering to a vocal minority who aren't going to make a difference to BB10 phone sales figures.

No offence intended to anyone, just my point of view and opinion as a BESAdmin with real world Enterprise experience on this matter. My 99% all touch BB10 phone users at work don't miss the trackpad and physical function keys one bit. Only 1% of my users chose a Q10 over a Z10 after trying both for a day!

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.1925 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1

This is an amazingly written post. I have to give you credit. I will just add a bit more to this point from my personal experience...

Since the launch of BlackBerry 10 I have managed to convert 6 users from other platforms to BlackBerry 10. They loved the clean look, the security, and the streamlined functionality. With the new OS releases this just continues to improve. The peek and flow is now more useful than ever. None of these users want to go back to any type of "button" based interface. Further to this point, and more on an organizational scale, my company was running approximately 40-50 BlackBerry devices at the launch of BlackBerry 10. Our admins tried to move the organization to BlackBerry 10. Everyone loved the new devices, the modern look and feel, and the streamlined gesture-based functions. However, at the end all BlackBerry support was dumped and the whole account was terminated, not because of the devices or the lack of buttons or the trackpad, or anything like that, but because of the bad implementation of BES 10.

So yeah, adding these keys just appeases a very vocal minority. Most of them will still not upgrade to BlackBerry 10 as they will find something else to gripe with. This is a terrible move by BlackBerry that dilutes their image and gives reviewers a field day to rip BlackBerry apart once the device is launched.

[xanadome]

Many of the typical BlackBerry power users are not that technically savvy.

Are you? :-)

[waterfrontmgmt]

I'm savvy enough to use a Q10 without a trackpad, if that's what you mean. But I can see the benefits of having one and thinks it's a good move.

Are you? :-)

[pantlesspenguin]

You mean physical "click" buttons? AND? Why the endless obsession and re-definition of the button? Phones still have keys at the bottom for dedicated tasks, especially a home and back and menu. They can't operate without them. Call me blind all you want but any web search or visit to the phone store will reveal this to you.

From where I'm sitting YOU'RE the one who keeps redefining buttons. There are three kinds: physical buttons, capacitive buttons, and on-screen buttons. Your initial claim said this:

Not it isn't. The only all touch phone on planet earth is made by a struggling company called BlackBerry. All the other phones have off-screen buttons of some sort. Just because you call it "the evolution of smartphones" (sounds like a TV commercial with James Earl Jones doing a voice over) doesn't mean it actually IS or that anyone actually cares.

YOU initially defined buttons as "off screen." Then you were reminded of on-screen buttons (which don't always just have one function, btw).

[redlightblinking]

Why would the user need the physical menu button? There is no menu in BB10 in the BBOS sense of a menu. There is an overflow menu (3 dots) but there are functional area tabs on the left too, which should the menu button bring up? Perhaps it should mimic the swipe down from the top for Quick Settings and app settings, but then not all apps have their Settings button there, sometimes it's in the overflow menu?
Maybe the menu button should cycle between all 3 of those places? Rather impractical and unnecessary though isn't it?!

Not if you want to work faster it isn't. You can say same thing for the 9900. Many screens can be menu'd by long pressing somewhere, or you can just quickly hit a key. Why limit choices?

Along the same vein, why would the user need a physical back button when there is usually a virtual back button on-screen and you can usually swipe from left to right to go back anyway?

Because there isn't always a back button. If I'm in an app, or the hub, and want to go back to the previous app, or home...there is no quick button press to do this. You must do something that is more intensive and particular and takes slightly longer. For power users this gets old really quick.

I can imagine the physical call accept and call end buttons returning, at least they have a specific purpose that directly correlates to a function on the handset. For the trackpad however I hope BlackBerry do something smarter and more innovative than just the same old trackpad that has been on BBOS phones for years. I like the idea of the physical keyboard allowing gestures to be performed by running your fingers over the keys, or perhaps a specific large key like the space bar. This means that extra space isn't required above the keyboard for the old style trackpad.

Yes, this would be cool and satisfy more people at the same time.

On the whole I'm not in favour of the return of the legacy belt of physical keys and / or physical trackpad. With a touch screen and the way BB10 is designed there is simply no pressing need for their return.

Except to make operation go faster and easier.

Sure a trackpad does make text selection easier, but that's not something that EVERYONE spends all day long doing, a minority will do it a lot but not enough to justify the return of the trackpad at the expense of handset design elegance, function and form.

I think some sort of virtual version would be a good compromise. The other advantage of the track pad was that it served as yet another button with it's own menu. It was an "enter" button as well. It was yet another short cut to get things done fast and move to the next without straining your fingers and thumb with endless contortions.

Text selection on iOS, Android and Windows Phone is also fiddly on touch screens, but that doesn't seem to have hindered their success in any way does it?!

They've got other advantages. They have always appealed to people who don't care about power use, more about form and cool, and apps.

No offence intended to anyone, just my point of view and opinion as a BESAdmin with real world Enterprise experience on this matter. My 99% all touch BB10 phone users at work don't miss the trackpad and physical function keys one bit. Only 1% of my users chose a Q10 over a Z10 after trying both for a day!

It's great to hear other perspectives. Just curious, did you actually conduct a survey of everyone that you admin, or are you just basing this on those that have or have not complained to you?