[kbz1960]

I'll answer that in a year and a bit when I have another upgrade, my last upgrade was wasted on the Q10.

All I can say for now is it marks the beginning of a massive u-turn at BlackBerry, anything could happen now, nothing is off the table.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

So they fixed the email bug that caused you to stop using both your BB10 phones?

[1guitarguy]

I don't like this. Not one bit!

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

If this happens, both of my bosses will return to BlackBerry (from iPhones). They did not like the Q10 and the Z10 because it was harder to edit documents without the trackpad, but they loved the new features (BB Hub, browser, etc.). With this device, they can have the best of both worlds on one device. And most importantly, they have A CHOICE.

So editing documents on an iPhone is better than it is on BB10? How can that be? No trackpad.

[lnichols]

This is so funny. Based on the legacy logic, the millions of BES users out there that haven't migrated to BES10/BB10 haven't done so because of the trackpad, and it had nothing to do with multiple servers required, or uncertainty about BlackBerry's future with the for sale sign, or the fact that BES10 wasn't Enterprise ready till about 8 months ago. Millions of people in Indonesia didn't buy the device because they can't afford a $500 to $800 device, it is because of the trackpad, even though the Android devices they are buying in huge numbers for cheap don't have them, and oh wait neither does the Z3.

I think Chen is making a tragic mistake like Mike and Jim did when they listened to CIO's while ignoring the end user. Now Chen is listening to the vocal small group of squeaky wheels and ignoring the fact that BB10 wasn't really ready for prime time till 10.2.1 hit, BES10 wasn't really enterprise ready until Summer 2013, and they haven't out any effort into selling BB10 devices. Unless this is simply a transition set of devices for some, I think this sets a bad message and will only give BlackBerry a bigger black eye.

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

So editing documents on an iPhone is better than it is on BB10? How can that be? No trackpad.

I don't think he said that. This is a problem of many BB owners. If they can't have some major features, they willing to walk away to get all the other advantages of another phone., They still have a bad experience with one lost key feature, say, editing, but at least they now have more of other things they didn't have earlier. Bringing back these features is about mitigating this problem. And getting people to reconsider staying or coming back. It was a major problem that Chen clearly understands.

[avt123]

BB10 was designed with always touching the screen because there were no buttons. That doesn't mean that adding a button will render BB10 useless. Instead of touching the virtual back button, I touch a real one closer to my thumb. Instead of getting to an area with a phone icon to make a call, I touch the phone button to do the same thing...only faster....with gloves on. Instead of swiping up to get to the home screen, I simply touch the closest button to my thumb....with gloves on. Same thing. Instead of touching an area of the screen to make an edit, I use a cursor to do the same by using my thumb....with gloves on. Instead of touching "reply" in one part of the screen, then send later on in another part of the screen... press the trackpad twice to get to that function and twice again to send. Instead of swiping up, then swiping down, or whatever to get to a menu....i just touch the key designed for bringing up a menu.

Faster. Faster. Faster. More accurate. More accurate. More accurate. Choices, Choices, Choices.

You are a minority of the market. You can type on touchscreens with gloves on and have been able to for a while. maybe you have never heard of "e-tip" gloves. They work wonders

Yes, and how did that work out for them?

Um, failure to properly advertise is what hurt them. No one know about BB10. This is what hurt them. BB was hurting before BB10 even existed. They have been bleeding customers since before BB10 and while legacy was their only offering. Obviously legacy hurt BB as well since they didn't adapt to the market fast enough.

No, there is no need except for the people who WANT it. Minor detail.

So because you are unable to use a touch screen properly, we should add another piece of hardware just because? Ok. Then make a separate model just for you guys, and make a QWERTY without a trackpad since it is completely unnecessary for the majority of the market.

So were computers. Then they added a mouse.

Yes, because navigating a UI with a command prompt is much more intuitive than a mouse. Give me a break. Touching a screen to select exact things is much easier than code.

No it's not. You can do anything without the trackpad.

But the OS was designed around it. You cannot say it wasn't, that would be a complete lie and misinformation. BBs features a wheel, a ball and then a pad. Then added the touchscreen. Touch was an afterthought on BBOS and added late in the game, the primary source of navigation for years was the trackball.

Because they didn't have a touchscreen. So what?

BlackBerry would NEVER have a touchscreen if it wasn't for what was happening in the rest of the market.

The rest of the market? How much of the "rest of the market" is BB getting these days?

Barely anyone because of BBs failure to advertise.

How much is BB10 getting these days?

Again, barely anyone do to marketing failures.

The rest of the market HAS NOT moved away from buttons.

Are you serious? Android and iOS control the majority of the smartphone market. These are FULL touch devices. People have moved away from buttons.

The most sold phones on the planet have more buttons that a BB10 phone does.

What, volume keys, standby, home and maybe a back button?

Oh my, so many buttons right there, And most Android devices are phasing out physical keys in favor of software keys. The iPhone has one button. Not an entire keyboard and a trackpad with a touchscreen on top of it.

People can deal with buttons.

I'm sure they can, but not ones they don't want on their device.

And, you're assuming they would have no options.

I hope they have options. Isn't BB trying to slim down their product line? Offering two of the same device, one with and without a trackpad really isn't doing this.

SItll want to be a slave to a touch screen? Buy a z10. Or Z30? Or any other swipe only BB phone. For the core that is abandoning BB, that built them, that is keeping them on life support, you give them what they want.

Oh, so it's ok for you to tell people to get a different product, but I can't? What if they don't want a full touch device and want a physical keyboard? The Z10 and Z30 are not options.

HOW? They already know BB has phones with a trackpad. Why would offering another one (that is simply an OPTION to their all-touch phones) make them care at all?

Maybe you don't read other blogs. Products can gives companies negative images. Adding tech that was phased out, and now being brought back to cater to people who are unable to adapt like the rest of the market may bring this image.

There are no phones that have no buttons off screen......except a Blackberry. Soooo......which phone is at the bottom of the sales list. Uh, right. BlackBerry. SO....what was your point again?

You are wrong. There are Android devices with no physical buttons besides volume keys. Z10 and Z30 are not the only devices on the market without any buttons.

Nope. No trend. Iphones still have a button. Androids still have buttons. WP still has buttons. Maybe you haven't noticed.

iPhone has ONE button (besides a stanby and volume keys that every device has). Android doesn't NEED buttons, and Google is pushing the use of no physical buttons. Look at Nexus devices. Look at the Moto X. It is the manufacturers that add it on their own free will. Mostly to differentiate themselves. They usually use soft keys as well, not physical. WP has a software button as well.

[redlightblinking]

This is so funny. Based on the legacy logic, the millions of BES users out there that haven't migrated to BES10/BB10 haven't done so because of the trackpad, and it had nothing to do with multiple servers required, or uncertainty about BlackBerry's future with the for sale sign, or the fact that BES10 wasn't Enterprise ready till about 8 months ago. Millions of people in Indonesia didn't buy the device because they can't afford a $500 to $800 device, it is because of the trackpad, even though the Android devices they are buying in huge numbers for cheap don't have them, and oh wait neither does the Z3.

I think Chen is making a tragic mistake like Mike and Jim did when they listened to CIO's while ignoring the end user. Now Chen is listening to the vocal small group of squeaky wheels and ignoring the fact that BB10 wasn't really ready for prime time till 10.2.1 hit, BES10 wasn't really enterprise ready until Summer 2013, and they haven't out any effort into selling BB10 devices. Unless this is simply a transition set of devices for some, I think this sets a bad message and will only give BlackBerry a bigger black eye.

Posted via CB10

Your conflating one problem with another. While your points about costs and BES are valid, that does not mean that the belt problem also exists. Problems come from multiple directions....this was just one of them.

That small group of squeeky wheels.....in cased you haven't noticed....are what BB refers to as their only significant remaining customer base. It may be small overall in all phones, but not in the BB world. If you lose BB faithful, and you can't get new people either.....where are you going?

[kbz1960]

I don't think he said that. This is a problem of many BB owners. If they can't have some major features, they willing to walk away to get all the other advantages of another phone., They still have a bad experience with one lost key feature, say, editing, but at least they now have more of other things they didn't have earlier. Bringing back these features is about mitigating this problem. And getting people to reconsider staying or coming back. It was a major problem that Chen clearly understands.

He said, they don't want BB10 due to no trackpad and they want that for better editing yet they use a touch screen iPhone over a legacy bb? How does that equate to won't use one because of it but will use a different one that still doesn't have the trackpad they desire? Maybe because they want apps too? No, he said the trackpad was THE reason.

[Eupathic Impulse]

He said, they don't want BB10 due to no trackpad and they want that for better editing yet they use a touch screen iPhone over a legacy bb? How does that equate to won't use one because of it but will use a different one that still doesn't have the trackpad they desire? Maybe because they want apps too? No, he said the trackpad was THE reason.

It's a more complicated decision-making process. "If I can't have feature X (that made me stick with product A), then maybe I can get feature Y (from product B)." The problem is that touchscreen BB10 has neither X nor Y. iPhone has no X, but it does have Y.

[akabbani]

The Q20 gives no reason for Q10 users to upgrade. The trackpad and belt will give the device an outdated look.

The Windermere concept was beautiful, rectangular screen with a minimized keyboard, giving the device an innovative and sleek look.

The Q20 will look bulky and outdated.

From the Q10 until they create a friggin rectangular 4" without the trackpad!

[avt123]

WHAT? Why are they giving up BB? They are saving it.

I'm replying to a post from a different user. Maybe you should read the rest of the context before butting in.

Yes, it is pretty simple. It's called increase Iphone sales. Increase Android sales. Increase WP sales. But, unfortunately, it doesn't mean increase BB sales. You do realize the sole goal of BB is to.....sell BlackBerry's....right?

Or, they can switch to BB10 devices like the Z10 and Z30 if people even knew they existed.

Not it isn't. The only all touch phone on planet earth is made by a struggling company called BlackBerry.

Again, please STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION. BB10 devices (Z10 and Z30) are not the only devices on the market that are full touch.

All the other phones have off-screen buttons of some sort.

All other phones? Again, you are LYING. There are Android devices that only have a standby button and volume keys. Just like WP devices as well. Software keys are NOT physical buttons.

Just because you call it "the evolution of smartphones" (sounds like a TV commercial with James Earl Jones doing voice over) doesn't mean it actually IS or that anyone actually cares.

It's not just me. The market is moving away from buttons. Again, I am not going to go over this, but if you are blind to see what is going on in this industry, I don't know what to tell you.

No. No one has. Because it doesn't exist. All phones except the Z10 and Z30 have buttons of some sort. How are they selling lately?

Again, misinformation. Stop please and go educate yourself on what is available on the market.

The world never left physical keys. Just go down the phone store....look at a phone (Besides a Z10 or Z30)..and look UNDER the screen. What do you see? AH, yes, there they are.....BUTTONS.

The majority of them are not PHYSICAL keys.

I am not responding to you anymore, and I am putting you on ignore. You seem to be unable to know what a physical key is (something you press and has a tactile feel) and a software key. You also seem to think you can make your point by making things up to someone who OWNS A NEXUS DEVICE THAT HAS NO KEYS BESIDES VOLUME AND STANDBY.

The market is moving away from keys wether you want to recognize it or not. Just because the iPhone has ONE button, doesn't mean the entire market is able to "deal with physical keys". Once iOS is reworked from the ground up, it most likely will not be there.

Again, you are now on my ignore list, so have fun arguing with someone else.

[pantlesspenguin]

Not it isn't. The only all touch phone on planet earth is made by a struggling company called BlackBerry. All the other phones have off-screen buttons of some sort. Just because you call it "the evolution of smartphones" (sounds like a TV commercial with James Earl Jones doing a voice over) doesn't mean it actually IS or that anyone actually cares.

Can you show me where the physical or "off screen" buttons on these phones are?

[PFman]

Does this thing seriously have a 3.5" screen?


Oh dear...

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk

[belfastdispatcher]

Can you show me where the physical or "off screen" buttons on these phones are?

http://i.imgur.com/hX9hbhU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rlmWXGl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zrndY2n.jpg

Are those buttons permanent on screen though?


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

[redlightblinking]

You are a minority of the market. You can type on touchscreens with gloves on and have been able to for a while. maybe you have never heard of "e-tip" gloves. They work wonders

I'm a minority of the market.....how? Of what market. Of the market of people who wear gloves? E-gloves suck.

Um, failure to properly advertise is what hurt them. No one know about BB10. This is what hurt them. BB was hurting before BB10 even existed. They have been bleeding customers since before BB10 and while legacy was their only offering. Obviously legacy hurt BB as well since they didn't adapt to the market fast enough.

While this interesting tangent is accurate, what does it have to do with anything I was discussing or this thread? BB10 had high return rates, partly because of the hard core users frustrated with the lose of so many key features. They knew about the product.

So because you are unable to use a touch screen properly, we should add another piece of hardware just because? Ok. Then make a separate model just for you guys, and make a QWERTY without a trackpad since it is completely unnecessary for the majority of the market..

Yes, insults will get you everywhere. Gosh, you should work in PR. It's not that users can't use the touch screen properly...it that it SUCKS. It's slow. It's PAINFULLY labor intensive compared to the speed that speed demons power users are used to. Yes, make a separate model just for "you guys" (aka a core section of you market that you seem to relish insulting). A track pad is completely unnecessary for ALL of the market...but its not about necessity...it's about what will get people to BUY THE PHONE. How is it that you don't understand this?

Yes, because navigating a UI with a command prompt is much more intuitive than a mouse. Give me a break. Touching a screen to select exact things is much easier than code. .

Yes, just as touching a BUTTON is much easier than the "code" of swipe over here, slide this reach over there. ANd yet.....they have BOTH? Funny how that works.

But the OS was designed around it. You cannot say it wasn't, that would be a complete lie and misinformation.
.

Of course I can say it. But you can't seem to say how the OS was "designed around it"...can you? There is absolutely NO reason why couldn't do the same thing the OS does now, and give the user ALTERNATE methods. You know....LIKE THE Q10 DOES. After all...that is a BB10 device with LOTS of buttons.

BBs features a wheel, a ball and then a pad. Then added the touchscreen. Touch was an afterthought on BBOS and added late in the game, the primary source of navigation for years was the trackball..

WRONG. You can operate BB0S 7 either completely with the touch screen or completely with the buttons. Your choice. Next.

BlackBerry would NEVER have a touchscreen if it wasn't for what was happening in the rest of the market.

What does this have to do with anything?

Are you serious? Android and iOS control the majority of the smartphone market. These are FULL touch devices. People have moved away from buttons..

WRONG. Are you serious? They are NOT fulltouchscreen devices....THEY HAVE BUTTONS ON THE BOTTOM. Dear god, sir, go look at a phone sometime.

What, volume keys, standby, home and maybe a back button? .

HOME. BACK. MENU. At the bottom of the screen. You know,....like a BlackBerry used to have. Now you're getting it.

Oh my, so many buttons right there, And most Android devices are phasing out physical keys in favor of software keys. The iPhone has one button. Not an entire keyboard and a trackpad with a touchscreen on top of it..

Physical, software....WHO CARES. It's a dedicated key that is not on the screen. Split hairs much?

I hope they have options. Isn't BB trying to slim down their product line? Offering two of the same device, one with and without a trackpad really isn't doing this.

What makes you think they are slimming down their product line? They barely have a product line.

Oh, so it's ok for you to tell people to get a different product, but I can't? What if they don't want a full touch device and want a physical keyboard? The Z10 and Z30 are not options.
l.

When did I ever tell people to get a different product? IF they don't want a full touch device they don't guy one. Why aren't the z10 and z30 options?

Maybe you don't read other blogs. Products can gives companies negative images. Adding tech that was phased out, and now being brought back to cater to people who are unable to adapt like the rest of the market may bring this image. .

Once again, you're proving my point. BB is not catering to the cool people who think a tech blog should guide their phone purchase based on its view of the world. And....they are not adding tech that was phased out. ALL PHONES HAVE BUTTONS except the new BBs. No one phased out buttons (whether physical or software).

You are wrong. There are Android devices with no physical buttons besides volume keys..

Please name one. And don't include any that have a button that doesn't make a click sound. It's still a button that is not part of the screen.

iPhone has ONE button (besides a stanby and volume keys that every device has). Android doesn't NEED buttons, and Google is pushing the use of no physical buttons. Look at Nexus devices. Look at the Moto X. It is the manufacturers that add it on their own free will. Mostly to differentiate themselves. They usually use soft keys as well, not physical. WP has a software button as well.

So....you are obsessed with "soft" vs. hard buttons. OK, if BB comes out with soft buttons for the band....do you completely change your opinion?

[anon(4185604)]

ok if you would like...blackberry made a big mistake. imo... because...

1. With the implementation of an all touch os.. to put a physical "back button" is admitting defeat.. and also ..legacy users didn't adapt because of lack of information. not because of the track pad. and call and hang up button... waste of time... if you can't figure out how to push a call and call end button... physical keys is not your problem... i have lots of friends still using there 9900's.. not because the q doesn't have a track pad or ' tool belt' its because all the crap that has been said about bb.. and if they will still be here in a year.. and a lot have gotten used to the apps.on other os devices. and word on the street is bb doesn't have ANY...

2. they are scaring all the people who adapted because of bb10s all touch...
all there is was chen saying we are a keyboard phone company they they are coming out with a keyboard phone... why don''t they just re release the 9900 with bb10...no promise of continued touch screen only phones..
if you wan't the track pad they should make the space bar the track pad...simply clean and doesn't affect the interface of the os..
3. since day one people have complained and complained about the terrible life of the z10 battery...if they were listening where is the new replacement 2500mah battery? so much for listening.. they just want to up sell a replacement and charger..

this is a ploy to get all the "legace slow coaches" to upgrade to bb10... if thats what it takes but
call it as it is... don't say we listen.. if they listen we would have a slider by now...

what about all the people who left for ios and android... some came back for the q physical keyboard... now all i hear about is they don't like the size of the screen... i have not heard or seen one thread on crackberry about some one missing the track pad.. and that they wished they could bring it back... rant over

IMO... i love the simple design of the zed 10.. no buttons. no muss no fuss, simple and easy to use..

While I agree with you for a lot of the points that you raised, I had to disagree on some.

1) Bringing a trackpad isn't accepting defeat. Accepting defeat would be like reverting to BlackBerry OS or abandoning BlackBerry 10 for Android.

2) We have the Z10, the Z30, the Z3. Those are 3 touch screen phones, but oh now you're not complaining about how you guys have so many touch screen phones? You like the options. So why can't we, keyboard fans, also have options? They aren't cutting down on the number of full touch screen options, they're just giving us 3 keyboard devices just like you guys have 3 full touch screen devices.

3) I think the Q10 should be priced competitively, Q5 abandoned and another premium slider along with a trackpad BlackBerry 10 device should exist. I also think the Z10 can be priced competitively (for God's sake it's like �150 here in the UK - that's $250 and we know electronics are more expensive in the UK). My point is, the Z10 can be cemented as the budget Berry, you know it can. Launch price = 3 times as high as current price (I think it was �479.95). There wasn't really a need for the Z3. The specs on the Z30 are meant to contend with the iPhone 5/5S and the high end Samsung devices (S4, Note 3), which simply isn't happening.

4) BlackBerry users are a minority, which have 3 further divisions. We have the all touch BlackBerry 10, the keyboard touch BlackBerry 10 and the BlackBerry 7 hardcore users. A lot of the BlackBerry 7 hardcore users and keyboard touch users DO want the trackpad. As for battery life, just get the accessory or a second battery :/ Use the leather holster it'll save battrry.
You can BUY your accessories, we can't BUY a trackpad and fit it in and expect it to work with the OS.

5) Lastly, sorry for not including quotes but when did Chen say they are a keyboard company?! I swear it went something more like, we listened to our keyboard fans :P

Sorry if point 5 is invalidated by lack of information^

Posted via CB10

[Legal Eagle]

This is far from bad news. Whatever gets more users on board the better. I don't want to stereotype or generalize, but from my recent experiences, a LOT of older (in age) users are hanging onto their BB7 devices because they don't think they can survive without the trackpad. Does this mean they can't? No. But it means that they haven't been convinced enough that BB10 doesn't need them.

It's the same thing with the Bold 9900. It has a touch screen, but most people I know that are still using a 9900 are using the trackpad for most of their navigation, not the touchscreen. Why? Because they're used to it and they like the "pointer" way of moving around.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that BB10 is amazing without the buttons/pad. However, a lot of people are hanging onto their older devices because of these features. This doesn't mean that every BB10 device going forward will offer the "Belt", but having one that does can only help them in transitioning users.

Calm the eff down folks... this isn't a HUGE deal.

Too true, if you don't want a BB10 device with the Belt then don't buy one. You all seem to love your Q10's without the Belt so stick with it.

I don't want a BB10 device without the belt so I haven't upgraded from my 9900, but I would be tempted to replace my 9900 with the rumoured new device.

Sure that I am not the only one.

[pantlesspenguin]

Are those buttons permanent on screen though?


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

They are unless you're doing something full screen, like watching a video, playing a game, or browsing using full screen mode. To get the button set back you tap the screen once.

[iancjc67]

full press release here:

BlackBerry Unveils New Flagship BlackBerry 10 Smartphone Designed to Deliver the Full Classic QWERTY Experience - Press Releases

[Morty2264]

I'm really disappointed.

I love having a phone that is all keyboard but also with touch navigation. It's the best of both worlds. I don't miss my trackpad or the physical call buttons at all. Now that Q10 users get speed dial shortcuts, I think (in my own opinion) that physical buttons are really unnecessary. The speed dials have now made me just think OS 10 is better. That was all that was missing for me. I think having the physical buttons is not only a bad marketing idea but (maybe) only a few users who loved BlackBerry OS7 devices will buy them. I don't see this doing well... But I'm not in smartphone engineering or marketing, so what do I know?

When my trackpad lagged on my 9780, it was worse than my battery problems. Doing even simple things on my phone was a headache. I really am averse to this...

This is also really depressing as I have a Q10 now and was thinking about whether or not I should stick with a BlackBerry Q device for my next upgrade or switch briefly to WP (now that it has BBM!!!!!!!!). So it looks like I won't be buying another Q... BUT I will hope for a slider.

Posted via CB10

[D_Gui]

I honestly hope they do something like this. Onscreen keys, with a physical trackpad acting as a fingerprint sensor for those who like what Apple is doing and Samsung copying:

[belfastdispatcher]

They are unless you're doing something full screen, like watching a video, playing a game, or browsing using full screen mode. To get the button set back you tap the screen once.

And I'm just guessing but I'm sure some owners complain about that, having to do two taps instead of one to get to home screen.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

[deercreekmichael]

So editing documents on an iPhone is better than it is on BB10? How can that be? No trackpad.

Both the Q10 and Z10 were sent out for repairs, and during this time, our apple-centric operations manager offered them to try an iPhone loaner instead which also does not have a trackpad but offers more features than a BB10 device. They are still using the iPhones but once in a while goes back to a 9900 or 9700 when going overseas.

Guys, it's simple. If you don't like the trackpad and blackberry keys, buy a Z10 or buttonless device. For those who prefer the trackpad and keyboard, we will buy those ones. At least with BlackBerry, we have CHOICES. Let's not start a civil war here. BlackBerry isn't going "backwards". Don't worry anti-button folks, they will come out with a version without buttons just for you.

[pantlesspenguin]

And I'm just guessing but I'm sure some owners complain about that, having to do two taps instead of one to get to home screen.


Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums

Perhaps, but it's hard to say. I'm sure for most it's not a huge deal since it's just a quick motion. When I'm watching a video (I don't play games or browse in full screen mode) I'm usually more inclined to check or answer an incoming notification than go to the home screen. When I hear my alert go off I tap once and see the alert scrolling in the task bar. I either leave it (it goes back to full when I tap again) or swipe to see the full message.

[anon(4185604)]

I honestly hope they do something like this. Onscreen keys, with a physical trackpad acting as a fingerprint sensor for those who like what Apple is doing and Samsung copying:

This would look so sexy even without the trackpad. In fact, this is how the Z30 SHOULD be.

Posted via CB10