[klhman475]

It's just another piece of hardware that can fail

I would agree with you on the trackball-that thing failed on my BB and I had to replace it a couple of times within the 2 year contract. That said, the trackpad on my 9700 has worked perfectly for 4 years so far.

[avt123]

I would agree with you on the trackball-that thing failed on my BB and I had to replace it a couple of times within the 2 year contract. That said, the trackpad on my 9700 has worked perfectly for 4 years so far.

No doubt. I'm not saying it WILL fail, just saying it can. Just like people complain about the iPhone home button and how it can fail. I have had a first gen iPod touch now since it's release (2007, almost 7 years now). Home button and everything else works perfectly still.

[xanadome]

BBRY should concentrate on one or the other, with a keyboard track pad device or a touch screen device and make it the best over all experience possible. One will suffer due to time being spent optimizing the other now. Take a look at the new generation of users, they aren't the keyboard users the people wanting the trackpad are old time BBRY users who claim to have no use for apps, or touch screen and want battery pulls brought back. Didn't work out so good the first time around...so running back there isn't going to change much I'm afraid.

I believe Chen's decision is purely market driven, not for pleasing newcomers etc. For him to make this decision (if it's true), he must have a very convincing basis to press this on.
Heins & Co. made a foray into what is termed a "consumer market" as a knee jerk reaction to the all touch slab proliferation led by Apple. It turned out that it was a grave error (just look at the $1B write down of Z10. You cannot argue with the result). So, as another knee jerk reaction, BBRY is trying to return to their roots, which basically a qwerty market, but not just a keyboard market. Things the enterprise market has been screaming for was not the same market that most CBers are discussing here.
With all the arguments about the legacy device etc, the fact of the matter is that the legacy style devices (not just the hardware, but the application programming and core functionalities etc) after all were keeping BBRY afloat, which was suddenly and totally dropped in favour of BB10. This is not about using or not using a modern platform. There is no question that BBRY should progress into a new platfrom, which at the present is the BB10, and there is no argument about it.
The question is; how the majority of the BB users have been using BBs. If it's merely a matter of offering all touch slabs but with different strokes (pun intended), then there are so many choices, including iOS and Android opened up, and BB10 devices were not particularly unique or superb, nothing to differentiate from the rest of the competitions.
Coming from the enterprise background, I am sure Chen knew all these things even before he jumped into this dying company. In fact, he probably saw a great opportunity by first resurrecting the majority of the market appreciated. Being such a gadget freak that I am, I understand the argument of moving forward and innovation etc. I have other modern platforms, but I think I also understand the reason for uproars of loss of the legacy feaures, both HW and SW, that has been making a BB a BB, without which BB is just another boring device.
Anyways, these points have beeb beaten to to death. Resurrection of the trackpad simply symbolizes BBRY's return to its roots, and things should start taking off from thereon (crossing my fingers).
That's the way I think anyway.

[Ragbert]

Well the mirror image of that is: What if you want a BB10 qwerty device, but you also want a trackpad? That is where millions of BBOS users are now, and they cannot or will not upgrade without it. Those are the people John Chen is trying to rein in. Not you, and not me. Those of us already using BB10 are taken care of. We have both qwerty and full-touch devices to choose from. Why would you object to a device designed to appeal to the bulk of Blackberry users out there? (Assuming it's true that BBOS devices far outsell BB10 devices.) Nobody ever said the Q10 would be done away with - if you love your qwerty device as it is, then use it happily. We don't have to think the trackpad is a good idea, but the legacy device holders do. I say, bring it on, and keep the BBOS users happy and willing to upgrade. Otherwise, someone else will do it anyway, and Chen will lose all those users forever.

What if you want a BB10 QWERTY device, but don't want a trackpad? Are you going to be forced to have it because others can't properly use touch input, or are there now going to be two versions of the same device?

[markus_13]

I personally will never buy a device built with a track pad but then again I also am not the largest market they are trying to convert to BB10.

If this helps that case then it is the right move. I just really hope this doesn't slow them down in all touch devices as well

Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

I won't buy a device with the trackpad or the "belt". Physical buttons and the optical trackpad are failure points on the device and I have had failures of those items.

Posted via CB10

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

I'll be ditching this z10 and buying the trackpad bb10 device. Good riddance to touch screen copy/paste and text selection

[avt123]

Well the mirror image of that is: What if you want a BB10 qwerty device, but you also want a trackpad? That is where millions of BBOS users are now, and they cannot or will not upgrade without it. Those are the people John Chen is trying to rein in. Not you, and not me. Those of us already using BB10 are taken care of. We have both qwerty and full-touch devices to choose from. Why would you object to a device designed to appeal to the bulk of Blackberry users out there? (Assuming it's true that BBOS devices far outsell BB10 devices.) Nobody ever said the Q10 would be done away with - if you love your qwerty device as it is, then use it happily. We don't have to think the trackpad is a good idea, but the legacy device holders do. I say, bring it on, and keep the BBOS users happy and willing to upgrade. Otherwise, someone else will do it anyway, and Chen will lose all those users forever.

Seems you are SOL because BB10 was built to not need that. Hopefully BB makes two devices than, one with and one without, because for some, that is totally unnecessary and just another useless button/hardware part that takes up space and effects device design.

They absolutely need to make two different devices.

[chiphazard]

Ridiculous to be moving backwards

BlackBerry Since 2006. Rogers Halifax, NS - Z10 Official 10.2.1

[Ragbert]

Don't tell me, tell the millions of legacy users out there. They're not all oldsters unable to handle change either-- many of them chose a legacy device over a BB10 device just for the extra physical buttons on it. If John Chen wants to bring them into the BB10 space, he needs to stroke them a little - give them something they want, while pulling them onto a new OS. They represent an enormous userbase, who don't necessarily post online. They don't care about loading leaks or the latest updates, they care that they have a phone which is familiar to them, and which they can use without thinking about how it's put together. They're going to stick with what they know and have, unless someone can entice them with something they already like, on a new device. Blackberry needs these users not to feel disenfranchised.

Seems you are SOL because BB10 was built to not need that. Hopefully BB makes two devices than, one with and one without, because for some, that is totally unnecessary and just another useless button/hardware part that takes up space and effects device design.

They absolutely need to make two different devices.

[chicofehr]

I hope they make one with and another without so people can all be happy on both sides. I for one love the track pad and the ability to end a call without looking at my phone. Selecting text is a huge pain on the Q10. Also the models that have it should have the option to disable the action bar as its redundant at that point. I still love the 9900 but love the BB10 OS too.

[Solar 77]

Well there will be options right? The windermere and this rumored device?

Posted via CB10

[hf199]

It was a staple and under new leadership and ideas it will work. Take Ford for second. Alan Mullaly brought back the Taurus name and eliminated some models and brands and simplified Ford
Same here. Being back BlackBerry followers and create new ones

Posted via CB10

[avt123]

Don't tell me, tell the millions of legacy users out there. They're not all oldsters unable to handle change either-- many of them chose a legacy device over a BB10 device just for the extra physical buttons on it. If John Chen wants to bring them into the BB10 space, he needs to stroke them a little - give them something they want, while pulling them onto a new OS. They represent an enormous userbase, who don't necessarily post online. They don't care about loading leaks or the latest updates, they care that they have a phone which is familiar to them, and which they can use without thinking about how it's put together. They're going to stick with what they know and have, unless someone can entice them with something they already like, on a new device. Blackberry needs these users not to feel disenfranchised.

These users need to adapt to new technology. What if BB wasn't bailed out and went under? What would these users do? There is absolutely NOTHING else on the market that offers a trackpad. These users would be forced to adapt. But now, these users continue to NOT adapt to current technology and continue to use old techniques (that may still work but are unnecessary) to get the same job done as touch text selection.

Otherwise, create two of the same device and call it a day. If you are going to cater to one crowd, you need to cater to the other,

[trwallace]

what about a virtual trackpad something you could bring up or if you dont want it you could turn it off. This would make more sense. The trackpad great but these physical buttons add all sorts of reliability and cost questions. The idea is to do this somehow without adding cost or reliability problems. Personally if people want it back then give it back to them. My thought is maybe you can do it in such a way as to keep everyone happy the old physical trackpad but in an electronic version. Is this possible. I think it is thats why we have technology to solve these issues. Lets hope they come up with something sensible if its going back to os7 then its a waste of time but if its upgraded bb10 version with this feature and it doesnt screw up the whole OS then it makes sense.

[AlfredFettucine]

You folks do realize that your local carrier reps are going to have a field day with this.
If you think you've heard it all already, just wait a little longer. This time however, they may be right on.

[xanadome]

I hope they make one with and another without so people can all be happy on both sides. I for one love the track pad and the ability to end a call without looking at my phone. Selecting text is a huge pain on the Q10. Also the models that have it should have the option to disable the action bar as its redundant at that point. I still love the 9900 but love the BB10 OS too.

Isn't this what Chen is aiming for? No backwards, but 9900 features/functionalities on BB10 platform.

Unrelated to this, who has ever said that Z series will have the belt and the trackpad? I agree that they are not needed for all touch slab.
If BBRY put those on all touch slab, they are defeating the purpose of Z series, and I agree that it is indeed backwards.
But who knows?
BBRY had surprised us so many times in the past :-)

Super Bold Brigade speaks

[Eupathic Impulse]

This is all truly amazing. What it appears that the BB10 no-trackpad diehards want is for BB to throw out the phones that attract its *current* customer base (such as it is) in order to force them (how?) to choose BB10, when that customer base can have an iPhone and native Netflix if they have to leave what makes BB BB.

BB10 is great. I have a Q10. I love it. But the world does not love BB10. What it brings to the table for the majority of users is a lack of native apps...

Clearly "has" and "based on" is completely different. You can use a 9900 without touching the screen. BB10 is designed with always touching the screen (besides physical QWERTY).

Yes, and this was a terrible mistake. That market was saturated already. That market doesn't give two hoots about a "real-time OS" with QNX. That market has one thing (besides apps) that the new BB10 doesn't have. HOME BUTTONS. Yes, they may be "all touch", but even THEY aren't dumb enough to get rid of all tactile navigation.

No, it is not. They moved to an all touch, gesture based OS to get rid of the reliance of physical keys and trackball/pad. There is absolutely NO NEED for a trackball or trackpad text selection is done properly.

Listen: there is absolutely no way to make touch screen editing better for most users than having a mouse or mouse-equivalent. It's a UI disaster. I've used various systems so far. They suck. They all suck in the same way. Even BB10s! I haven't tried the Windows version but the likelihood that they overcame the reason why touchscreen editing sucks is rather low, because the problem is not the software, IT'S THE SCREEN.

Only a minority of users who *want* to edit text on their screen will *actually* prefer a touch screen. It so happens that the overwhelming majority of users DO NOT CARE about text editing. And they are well served by iPhone, Android. Is BB going to go for the market that cares about text editing, or not?

If all BB is trying to do at this point is secure legacy users, this is all this is good for. This will just further push others away from BB. The consumers BB NEEDS to add. I don't know if you have noticed, but all other touch based OSs are getting rid of physical key requirements. This is the trend moving into the future. BB again, is going back in time to cater to a select group of people that are the minority of the market.

Right now, BB10 is not catering to ANY market. They have not been successful with the "rest" of the market, because they bring nothing to the table that that market wants and doesn't already have. But they have frittered away their *existing* market. Get users to use BB10, and then the apps will come, and then the rest of the market, the carriers, etc, will follow.

Do you want to know why carriers won't promote BB10? It's not a conspiracy. It's because when Ms BBOS enters the store with her Bold 9700, she is looking for one of two things:

1. Something like her Bold 9700 that does more stuff.

2. Whatever her friends are using.

BB10 for all its technological wonder fits in neither category! Neither fish nor fowl. It's like OS/2---and I was an OS/2 Warp user LONG after IBM had abandoned it. Permanently 20 years ahead of its time. There are features that have never been matched, and never will, because the market didn't want those features. They wanted the features that Bill Gates gave them. But unlike OS/2 Warp there is actually (maybe still) an installed consumer base of legacy BBs. Hopefully Chen knows what he's doing here.

[Eupathic Impulse]

These users need to adapt to new technology. What if BB wasn't bailed out and went under? What would these users do? There is absolutely NOTHING else on the market that offers a trackpad. These users would be forced to adapt. But now, these users continue to NOT adapt to current technology and continue to use old techniques (that may still work but are unnecessary) to get the same job done as touch text selection.

You cannot "order" users to adapt to your grand vision. Again, it's ludicrous. If they have to give up their trackpads, chances are, in the this market, they'll be happy to give up BB entirely. What does BB10 bring to the table that most of them actually care about?

And no, I have to say it one more time. Touch text selection is INHERENTLY BROKEN for many users. There is no way to fix it. I think the whole peek thing is really nice, but all-gesture is a fad.

[Bbnivende]

what about a virtual trackpad something you could bring up or if you dont want it you could turn it off. This would make more sense. The trackpad great but these physical buttons add all sorts of reliability and cost questions. The idea is to do this somehow without adding cost or reliability problems. Personally if people want it back then give it back to them. My thought is maybe you can do it in such a way as to keep everyone happy the old physical trackpad but in an electronic10 version. Is this possible. I think it is thats why we have technology to solve these issues. Lets hope they come up with something sensible if its going back to os7 then its a waste of time but if its upgraded bb10 version with this feature and it doesnt screw up the whole OS then it makes sense.

You must be referring to former carrier reps . The G + M article refers specifically to upgrading the BB 10 device. I think this new phone and the current Z30 are the last BB designed phones we will see unless sales pick up. I would not be surprised to see Foxconn take over the hardware business.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app

[just jack]

If they are smart the will make a virtual belt that you can toggle. That has to be cheaper than actual buttons and they won't break

Posted with the Glorious Z30

[redlightblinking]

Clearly "has" and "based on" is completely different. You can use a 9900 without touching the screen. BB10 is designed with always touching the screen (besides physical QWERTY).

BB10 was designed with always touching the screen because there were no buttons. That doesn't mean that adding a button will render BB10 useless. Instead of touching the virtual back button, I touch a real one closer to my thumb. Instead of getting to an area with a phone icon to make a call, I touch the phone button to do the same thing...only faster....with gloves on. Instead of swiping up to get to the home screen, I simply touch the closest button to my thumb....with gloves on. Same thing. Instead of touching an area of the screen to make an edit, I use a cursor to do the same by using my thumb....with gloves on. Instead of touching "reply" in one part of the screen, then send later on in another part of the screen... press the trackpad twice to get to that function and twice again to send. Instead of swiping up, then swiping down, or whatever to get to a menu....i just touch the key designed for bringing up a menu.

Faster. Faster. Faster. More accurate. More accurate. More accurate. Choices, Choices, Choices.

No, it is not. They moved to an all touch, gesture based OS to get rid of the reliance of physical keys and trackball/pad. .

Yes, and how did that work out for them?

There is absolutely NO NEED for a trackball or trackpad text selection is done properly.

No, there is no need except for the people who WANT it. Minor detail.

This is a step backwards because BB10 is designed for the use without the trackpad.

So were computers. Then they added a mouse.

9900 users have that choice because BBOS is designed around the use of a trackpad. .

No it's not. You can do anything without the trackpad.

BBOS devices have always had trackpads/balls (besides the failure that was the Storm series). .

Because they didn't have a touchscreen. So what?

BB10 is a move AWAY from traditional BBs. Sure, this is great for those who want a traditional BB, but not for the rest of the market. The rest of the market moved away from these things years ago. .

The rest of the market? How much of the "rest of the market" is BB getting these days? How much is BB10 getting these days?
The rest of the market HAS NOT moved away from buttons. The most sold phones on the planet have more buttons that a BB10 phone does. People can deal with buttons. And, you're assuming they would have no options. SItll want to be a slave to a touch screen? Buy a z10. Or Z30? Or any other swipe only BB phone. For the core that is abandoning BB, that built them, that is keeping them on life support, you give them what they want.

If all BB is trying to do at this point is secure legacy users, this is all this is good for. This will just further push others away from BB..

HOW? They already know BB has phones with a trackpad. Why would offering another one (that is simply an OPTION to their all-touch phones) make them care at all?

. I don't know if you have noticed, but all other touch based OSs are getting rid of physical key requirements. This is the trend moving into the future.

There are no phones that have no buttons off screen......except a Blackberry. Soooo......which phone is at the bottom of the sales list. Uh, right. BlackBerry. SO....what was your point again?

. This is the trend moving into the future.

Nope. No trend. Iphones still have a button. Androids still have buttons. WP still has buttons. Maybe you haven't noticed.

[Plazmic Flame]

For once I hope the rumors are fake. BlackBerry should definitely not go backwards on this... just like any new user had to do on any other platform, BB10 OS just takes a learning curve to get use to.

[redlightblinking]

These users need to adapt to new technology.

WHY? The users need to have a phone that works for them. THEY CALL THE SHOTS. You give them what they want.

What if BB wasn't bailed out and went under? What would these users do? There is absolutely NOTHING else on the market that offers a trackpad. These users would be forced to adapt. ,

Sure, but what does that have to do with anything? How does this help BB? You're saying if BB dies consumers would be screwed and have to adapt to life without them so just ignore them ANYWAY? Makes no sense. You could apply this tortured logic to Iphones. To Ford Explorers. To anything. BUT WHY?

T But now, these users continue to NOT adapt to current technology and continue to use old techniques (that may still work but are unnecessary) to get the same job done as touch text selection.,

Because it works BETTER. It's faster. They WANT it. Please tell me the name of one company (that had some competition) that succeeded by completely ignoring what their consumers were screaming for? Please....just name one. Old techniques can still be better techniques. Old and new have no connection to faster or better....they simply describe age, not functionality.

Otherwise, create two of the same device and call it a day. If you are going to cater to one crowd, you need to cater to the other,

Uh, I think that would be the plan. I'm pretty sure they've been doing this all along. They already have "two of the same device" in the Z10 and the Q10. Androids have much success with about 20 of the same device.

[redlightblinking]

For once I hope the rumors are fake. BlackBerry should definitely not go backwards on this... just like any new user had to do on any other platform, BB10 OS just takes a learning curve to get use to.

Please describe any smartphone platform in which users had to make a major adjustment like this? Just one please. How are they "going backwards" when they still sell BBOS which outsells BB10? How are they going backwards when the best selling phones all have buttons? Just because you made something "cool" that no one else could claim they had, doesn't mean you must stay a slave to it and let it define you.