[Troy Tiscareno]

There's gotta be a dozen or more Android OEMs that are in worse financial shape than BBRY, but their new offerings aren't constantly labeled "last-ditch" or a "hail-mary". And none of them are deemed failures simply because their latest phone didn't outsell the two largest phonemakers in the world.

How many of them owned 50% of the smartphone market 5 years ago, or put themselves up for sale for less than book cost and couldn't find a buyer? How many of them have 7,000 employees (down from 17,000)?

You aren't exactly comparing apples to apples (no pun intended).

[gkl]

And I highly doubt that this is a fleet renewal phone, in reality (it surely is for some dreamers at BlackBerry though)
Most enterprises have long switched away from BlackBerry phones, the Classic is overpriced and BES is cross-platform by now.

Simply said... I doubt that there's any point in even releasing the Classic in its current form, to be honest.

How is this NOT a fleet phone? Less than top level specs and a design that mirrors their best selling fleet phones.

Also, how is $49 on contract overpriced?

[vbdwork]

Also, how is $49 on contract overpriced?

On what contract? Here in Canada you must switch to a minimum $75/month service to get it for $50. $50 is a down payment only, the phone will cost you over $500. Is it really so difficult to calculate? I pay $54/month for exactly the same service with my own device.

[cbvinh]

On what contract? Here in Canada you must switch to a minimum $75/month service to get it for $50. $50 is a down payment only, the phone will cost you over $500. Is it really so difficult to calculate? I pay $54/month for exactly the same service with my own device.

What's the closest comparable deal for an Android or iPhone? How much will the Android or iPhone cost in the end? How does $49 compare with that? Cheaper or more expensive?

[vbdwork]

What's the closest comparable deal for an Android or iPhone? How much will the Android or iPhone cost in the end? How does $49 compare with that? Cheaper or more expensive?

Nexus 5 - $350 on Google Play off-contract. 2014 specs, not 2012 like Classic. Good enough?

[will308]

Do not understand why anyone cares about what others think of BB.... the only way opinion will change is for BB to become successful.... bottom line.... till BB turns a consistent profit, continues to innovate... you will not change people's mind no matter how well informed you are or how misinformed those you rail against are...... a rather useless exercise.....

yea I think you are right ppl will say what they want and it dosnt matter how much you show them that they are wrong they will still say crap

[cbvinh]

Nexus 5 - $350 on Google Play off-contract. 2014 specs, not 2012 like Classic. Good enough?

Are more people buying the Nexus 5 or the iPhone 6? Does the subsidized price of the iPhone 6 make it cheaper than the unlocked Nexus 5? Are the people who buy the iPhone 6 having difficulty calculating their final price? Or is the "entry" price what people pay attention to?

[vbdwork]

Does the subsidized price of the iPhone 6 make it cheaper than the unlocked Nexus 5?

There is no subsidized price on iPhone. You pay X to get the phone, then continue paying 24 x Y. In a long term it's cheaper to buy iPhone unlocked off-contract. It also gives you the option to move to another carrier later. Unlocking iPhone devices is about $100. iPhone and Android have best ecosystem and that's the reason they are popular and successful. BlackBerry currently has almost nothing comparable to offer. You pay for a package, not for the device only. BlackBerry package is worth $200 at best, no matter what the phone is made of. They wasted a ton of money to release an cosmetic update to Q10.

Or is the "entry" price what people pay attention to?

It is, and that's why most people end up paying even more.

[MarsupilamiX]

How is this NOT a fleet phone? Less than top level specs and a design that mirrors their best selling fleet phones.

Also, how is $49 on contract overpriced?

I said that the Classic is a fleet renewal device for some dreamers at BlackBerry.
It actually might be an integral target demographic for BlackBerry.

My point however is, that even if the phone is conceived as a fleet-renewal phone, it won't be a fleet renewal device in reality.
If that is still too abstract, let me formulate it like that: Basically no enterprise will actually consider the Classic as an option for their employees.

I don't really like the euphemism you used to describe the Classic's specs. Those surely are less than top level specs. But the way you say it, sounds like they would be at least close to one another.
They are not. They are entry level specs. Those that you'd find in a 120$ phone.

Last but not least:
The Classic doesn't mimic their most successful fleet phone.
Their most successful line in the enterprise sector was the Curve line, not the Bold.

[AndyYNWA]

Most "adults" transferred from dumb phones to keyboardless smartphones just fine.
Actually, the vast majority of humanity never had a BlackBerry before they had a real smartphone.

It therefore isn't even remotely close to the issue you describe here. When you say it that way, it's as if everyone that was older than a certain age threshold, had a smartphone with physical keys.
And that's just wrong. It's not a generational question. As if a 15 year old had the income to buy a 700$ Bold/iPhone.

It's a question of preferences. And as the market matured, it became clear that the preferences are not in favour of the keyboard. 0.5% marketshare at maximum at the end of this year.
Going by your thesis, that would mean that only 0.5% of smartphone buyers are adults...

The only thing I wrote was; many that have used a pk before, misses it.
If the market prefers phones without pk or not is much up to Steve Jobs, not so much the market itself. If BlackBerry had jumped on the train from the beginning (when Apple released the iPhone) and developed their OS and created a large base of apps, I think they would have had a much larger market share that they do now.

[tchocky77]

1. Smart business people aren't on Twitter

sorry thats just demonstrably false and makes you sound a bit of a caveman.

Also, I can't see how posting some random comments means much. I could find lots of negative comments about any iPhone too. But it continues to outsell the generation before.

[donnation]

1. Smart business people aren't on Twitter
2. They don't participate in something as stupid and useless as phone wars
3. The classic had the potential to become BBs another Bold IF they allow macros, skins, programmable led and an option to downgrade to os7
4. Tactile feedback > glass typing

1. Thats' moronic
2. True
3. Not gonna happen
4. This is purely subjective and tons of people (including myself) can type circles around anyone with a pk.

[qbnkelt]

And I highly doubt that this is a fleet renewal phone, in reality (it surely is for some dreamers at BlackBerry though)
Most enterprises have long switched away from BlackBerry phones, the Classic is overpriced and BES is cross-platform by now.

Simply said... I doubt that there's any point in even releasing the Classic in its current form, to be honest.

It is true that a lot of enterprise users have moved away from BlackBerry. My own agency has. However, there are still agencies and corporations that remain with BlackBerry.

I absolutely see the Classic as fleet refresh for the U.S. Executive Branch and White House, for example.

Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!

[MarsupilamiX]

It is true that a lot of enterprise users have moved away from BlackBerry. My own agency has. However, there are still agencies and corporations that remain with BlackBerry.

I absolutely see the Classic as fleet refresh for the U.S. Executive Branch and White House, for example.

Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!

Can you give me a guesstimate (if you are allowed to) of how many BlackBerries sold this could mean?
Judging the numbers of government users is hard as an outsider.

I also should have been more precise I guess.
In the ultra-regulated business sectors and government agencies, I can totally see some bulk purchases of the Classic.
But at least going by some numbers I have, those users aren't exactly a big number of potential customers.

When I talked about the Classic not being a fleet renewal device in reality, I had the good old days in mind, when basically every bigger company had some Curves laying around for their staff to pick up.
And when I look at that demographic, I see 2 scenarios that make up the majority:
1) Ditched BlackBerry handsets quite some time ago.
2) Will support legacy devices until they die, but will renew the fleet with iOS and Android devices.

I fully agree with you however on the statement concerning government agencies/regulated industries.

You'll order a Classic in white, right?

[qbnkelt]

Can you give me a guesstimate (if you are allowed to) of how many BlackBerries sold this could mean?
Judging the numbers of government users is hard as an outsider.

I also should have been more precise I guess.
In the ultra-regulated business sectors and government agencies, I can totally see some bulk purchases of the Classic.
But at least going by some numbers I have, those users aren't exactly a big number of potential customers.

When I talked about the Classic not being a fleet renewal device in reality, I had the good old days in mind, when basically every bigger company had some Curves laying around for their staff to pick up.
And when I look at that demographic, I see 2 scenarios that make up the majority:
1) Ditched BlackBerry handsets quite some time ago.
2) Will support legacy devices until they die, but will renew the fleet with iOS and Android devices.

I fully agree with you however on the statement concerning government agencies/regulated industries.

You'll order a Classic in white, right?

I can't, really. I know for a fact that DHS is moving away from BlackBerry one by one. About one third of the agencies are now Android or Android/iPhone using Good. December will see UCSIS ending BlackBerry in the Capital Region.

I've got colleagues who are in Justice Dept and there is talk there of phasing out. State Dept, however, absolutely won't.

Varies with the agencies. Each contracting office within each branch handles it's own refresh cycle so it's difficult to get accurate numbers. Best you can do is take note as they change or stay.

In my agency people had a choice between Lumia 920, iPhone 6, and SG5. Nobody picked the Lumia. LITERALLY. So many picked iPhones that it became the default to those who didn't answer the email to register a preference. I picked an SG5 because of the user replaceable battery.

That was a 7,537 handset move, in my agency, away from BlackBerry.

Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!

[qbnkelt]

And yes I'm getting a white Classic. Missed out on the white 9900 but not on this one. I'm willing to pay 450.

Posted from my SEXY Q10 that I'd STILL be using IF I could find my FRACKING BANKING APP on BBW. And no I won't put Android apps here so don't EVEN go there!!!!

[kevets]

I want the Classic to replace my Z10. I think it could jumpstart making BB a 'cool' phone to have again.

[Empyrean]

Nexus 5 - $350 on Google Play off-contract. 2014 specs, not 2012 like Classic. Good enough?

Yeah, if you're comfortable selling your soul and personal data to Google. THAT'S where the subsidy is...

Posted via CB10

[qbnkelt]

I want the Classic to replace my Z10. I think it could jumpstart making BB a 'cool' phone to have again.

I thought BlackBerry users didn't care about "cool" phones......that's what was discussed in a previous thread that was closed.....


Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6 ️️️

[Dr J39]

I'm trying to think of another product that gets similar or more immediate, relentless, putdowns but can't think of any.

Go into a room full of 20 something guys and tell them you want their advice on which new car to buy!

[Dr J39]

I'm trying to think of another product that gets similar or more immediate, relentless, putdowns but can't think of any.

Go into a room full of 20 something guys and tell them you want their advice on which new car to buy!

Maybe this is all payback for the times in the past they longingly looked at the professionals and executives on their BlackBerrys when they were still toting their Samsung flip-phones. Or maybe it's just because they're just bitter that a Canadian company is still the only leader in security and productivity.

I never carried a Samsung flip phone, only Motorola. I really don't care what others think. I bought my Z10, because I like it. I didn't ask anyone for permission, and I understood, at the time, that I am in a minority. So - as long as BB continues to make a reliable phone that doesn't grow any larger, I will stick with them. It would be nice if they would produce some reliable banking apps.

[bbnrs]

"When debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" - Socrates
That can be said of many comments here.

[slagman5]

1. Thats' moronic
2. True
3. Not gonna happen
4. This is purely subjective and tons of people (including myself) can type circles around anyone with a pk.

Accurately? I know many who can type faster, but NONE who would make fewer mistakes...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[vbdwork]

Yeah, if you're comfortable selling your soul and personal data to Google. THAT'S where the subsidy is...

You can do exactly the same everywhere online, Facebook for example. I personally share the minimum required information with Google and I'm OK with it. When I upgrade my business to illegal substances distribution, then I may think about it more seriously.

[Overlake]

Just got mine.

-I like the q10 size and design better. The hybrid tool belt and touch screen are redundant. Much more elegant on the q10 sans belt.

-feels really old when you hold it. Like going back in time. Grab my iPhone 6 and it feels like a dinosaur. A nice Dino.

-much prefer the messaging experience on bb10 over iPhone. No contest.

-apps still major major weak point and blackberry's ultimate demise as a phone maker.

I'm sending it back.