05-03-15 01:01 PM
51 123
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  1. idssteve's Avatar
    My Q10 has been in the drawer since replacing it with PassPort as a "surfing phablet". My firm doesn't consider devices lacking physical "end" key to be a phone. Myself included. Long story.

    Classic is our go-to device with many of us carrying 9900's as "security blankets". NO confusion once, like any device, you accept it for what it is and learn to optimize your use with its characteristics. Options are GOOD!

    BBRY's current lack of toolbelt experience is, sadly, expected. Hold a 9900 in one hand and a Z30 in the other hand and convince yourself they were made by the same company. It could be argued they are not the same company. BBRY is a NEW company. BB10 is a NEW OS. For better AND worse.

    I, personally, believe BB10 was built ground up by developers who had never used BBOS. I, personally, could TOO easily believe they'd NEVER designed a smartphone before. As a matter of fact, what smartphone experience did QNX have? Smartphones are not car stereos... lol.

    Too many "simple" features had to wait long waits to get implemented into BB10. Toolbelt was, obviously, an insurmountable challenge to implement on Q10 by launch. Much easier to meet scheduling goals by simply marketing lack of TB as a "feature". Hence, we got what we got. For better AND worse. AFAIK, Q10 sales didn't exactly crush 9900 sales.

    BB10 is maturing in front of our eyes and Classic's toolbelt, imperfect as it is, makes it the BEST BB10 device to date, IMO. I'm thrilled with mine, as is, while eagerly awaiting BB10's maturity!
    Last edited by idssteve; 04-02-15 at 06:26 PM.
    andy957 likes this.
    04-02-15 05:58 PM
  2. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I haven't used the classic much but if there is a perception that BB10 isn't suited to the trackpad and toolbelt, i'll call that a 'toolbelt 1.0' implementation issue that is fixable.

    I read on CrackBerry.com that there are some contexts where the 'call end' button does NOT hang up a call, which is a huge no-no from a UX perspective... but things like that could be fixed with a software update.

    Can you articulate what it is about the toolbelt that you find awkward to use or unwieldly?

    Posted via CB10
    04-02-15 06:09 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    ...
    I read on CrackBerry.com that there are some contexts where the 'call end' button does NOT hang up a call, which is a huge no-no from a UX perspective... but things like that could be fixed with a software update. ...

    Posted via CB10
    Ouch, that would be HUGE for my firm. We haven't noticed that issue but will certainly be digging. Also agree, nothing software shouldn't be able to fix.
    04-02-15 06:23 PM
  4. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    I had the Curve 8320, Bold 9780 and 9900. Then got the Z10 upon its release, used it for 18 months. Then got the Q10. Altho I liked the PKB better, the Q10 was a letdown for me as I was expecting more of a Bold 9900 feel and display quality. Hated its keyboard and amoled screen. When the Classic came out, I bought it and am now quite satisfied. Not confusing at all.

    Posted via Classic
    Same for me exactly!

    Posted via CB10
    04-02-15 07:23 PM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    I haven't used the classic much but if there is a perception that BB10 isn't suited to the trackpad and toolbelt, i'll call that a 'toolbelt 1.0' implementation issue that is fixable.

    I read on CrackBerry.com that there are some contexts where the 'call end' button does NOT hang up a call, which is a huge no-no from a UX perspective... but things like that could be fixed with a software update.

    Can you articulate what it is about the toolbelt that you find awkward to use or unwieldly?

    Posted via CB10
    OK, if this:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...noying-994083/

    Is the issue you're refering to, I totally agree. "End" should mean END! Period. But we've grown accustomed to rapid fire multiple "end" key presses just to achieve "warm fuzzy". Another ridiculous accommodation that should never have been, IMO. Infinitely more positive with Classic's physical key than with ALL other BB10 devices, tho. .
    04-03-15 05:31 AM
  6. Clem33's Avatar
    when can we expect a genuine toolbelt centered OS for the classic ?
    04-03-15 07:39 AM
  7. RyanGermann's Avatar
    OK, if this:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...noying-994083/

    Is the issue you're refering to, I totally agree. "End" should mean END! Period. But we've grown accustomed to rapid fire multiple "end" key presses just to achieve "warm fuzzy". Another ridiculous accommodation that should never have been, IMO. Infinitely more positive with Classic's physical key than with ALL other BB10 devices, tho. .
    That specific thread has more info than I was even remembering, but the point of the toolbelt buttons, ESPECIALLY the call send and call end buttons, should be how they relate to PHONE CALLS. Not some clever contextual difference when you're in BBM vs. Email vs. Browser vs. Angry Birds.

    There are some basic things to consider though:
    • single (short) press
    • single long press
    • double short press


    iOS has gone so far as to support "triple short press" but that's ambiguous depending on the "rhythm" of the presses so I think that's an outlier... so given those three types of actions on a physical button:

    WHEN A PHONE CALL IS ACTIVE IN ANY CONTEXT (ruling out accidental single presses as a common occurrence) a single short press or single long press should end the call under all circumstances... which means there is no such thing as a double short press, because the first press would have ended the call.

    WHEN A PHONE CALL IS NOT ACTIVE. It may seem wasteful but I think a single short press on the "end call" button when a phone call is not active should do absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.

    On old BBOS devices, a long press on the Call End button was to put the device to sleep (BBOS devices were not really "off" if they could turn themselves "on" at 7 AM every day, now are they?) That could be duplicated on BB10: long press on Call End acts as a power off button, but there is already a "long press on the lock button" to prompt the user with the 3 second "hold to turn off" countdown, so I don't know if duplicating that on BB10 would serve any other purpose other than legacy action for old BBOS users... so sure, let there be TWO "single long press" buttons on the device that turn it off... but the behaviour should be the 3 second countdown like single long press on the lock button.

    So what about double short press? Well, I think that's something that just shouldn't do anything ever on the "call end" button. Multiple presses on the call end button should just be considered as multiple single short press actions.

    The Call End button shouldn't necessarily do anything in any other contexts. If you're not on a call a single short press does nothing. When you're in any context a single long press prompts to keep holding to turn off the device.

    Yes, there are contexts where having a button to do stuff would do stuff... fine, use the trackpad click or any other button on the keyboard or make the user use the menu to pick from a list of options, but leave the Call End button as sacrosanct SPECIFIC for uses to end the call or power down the device (which in a way could be thought of as "not only end the call, but end the PHONE!" kind of "Call End ULTRA".)

    The other trackpad buttons, trackpad navigation / trackpad click actions could be similarly reconsidered and streamlined, even if it has the apparent effect of "limiting" the usefulness: having a purpose-built button or user interface object that does ONE THING ONLY and does it really well can make that control more useful, and therefore make the device more useful.

    Funny: I just realized that the utility of the BB device "toolbelt" is itself a metaphor for BlackBerry Ltd: purpose built to do one thing really well, and when it strays too far from that purpose, BlackBerry's fortunes suffer accordingly.
    04-03-15 11:00 AM
  8. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    when can we expect a genuine toolbelt centered OS for the classic ?
    You're looking at it. Tacked on functionality is all you get.
    04-03-15 04:19 PM
  9. Black Ice's Avatar
    May wanna have a second look at the way the screen resizes itself when typing out a text message. I hate that with a passion. Good phone but that jumping all over the place has got to go!

    thelastdarksider likes this.
    04-29-15 12:02 PM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    Sorry, no intention to insult anyone, but how is the Classic "confusing"?? Not a real question, more rhetorical. It's not at all confusing. I'm using it and navigating through it with no problems...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    jamesharmeling likes this.
    04-29-15 12:06 PM
  11. kobnyc's Avatar
    It's not that the toolbelt doesn't work right, it's that people want it to function just like their legacy devices, and feel like the new OS was slower and harder to use.

    Which is true since it wasn't designed to be used with the toolbelt. If they were willing to try without it, they would see how the new OS is actually much faster and smoother, and the toolbelt is not necessary.

    Posted via CB10
    Man, I TOTALLY agree. I missed the toolbelt and trackpad on the Q10 and thought it would be cool to have again on Classic. But honestly, I don't even use the trackpad 98% of the time and I'm now wishing it wasn't even there at all. They could have added that 'toolbelt' space to the size of the screen and I'd be a happy camper. Seems like just wasted space now.

    Posted via CB10
    Q10Bold likes this.
    05-02-15 08:53 AM
  12. idssteve's Avatar
    Man, I TOTALLY agree. I missed the toolbelt and trackpad on the Q10 and thought it would be cool to have again on Classic. But honestly, I don't even use the trackpad 98% of the time and I'm now wishing it wasn't even there at all. They could have added that 'toolbelt' space to the size of the screen and I'd be a happy camper. Seems like just wasted space now.

    Posted via CB10
    Funny, i don't even use the touch 90% of the time. That 10% is what the still maturing OS coerces me into using. Track negates the need for acres of screen estate. My Classic's oversized screen seems like wasted space, to me. Smaller screen could have made for a more compact device. My hand feels my Classic's size by day's end. Different folks...

    Diversity is a wondrous thing!! Unless you're a BB decision maker... lol
    05-02-15 09:32 AM
  13. dthoupis's Avatar
    I guess the confusing comes from people not customizing or using the features as they are better intended.

    Just an example which also comes from personal experience.

    I remember from head don't know if I am wrong but on OS7, one could press the call button on the universal search and the phone would call the only available number or it would bring the list of the numbers to choose. Then pressing call again would make the call.

    In BB10 this feature does not exist on the universal search. You need to press with the trackpad the name, then select the number even if it's just one and then press the call to make the call. Does it matter?? Well probably not but when you want the phone to do that call instantly, keep pressing again and again when you expect the phone to know you want to call that person is frustrating to say the least.

    Of course, the more correct solution would be to press the call, THEN type the name and if there is just one number pressing the call will make that call.

    I know the above is nitpicking but these are the small things which made the legacy BlackBerry devices so good in communication.

    Don't get me wrong I love my Classic I couldn't live without it!! Well maybe I could but not without BlackBerry.

    The point being that while the OS is not optimised for the belt, the belt does offer functionality in the OS which with touch is more time consuming.

    I think BB10 has great potential. Problem is that people need to understand that one company cannot please everyone. We got used it getting done things our way and we cannot accept a change or compromise.



    Posted via CB10
    05-02-15 09:38 AM
  14. teostar's Avatar
    Using BlackBerry's own logic the classic would be considered a problem(confusing). It gives the user an additional "thought point" I think they called it. Every time you pick up the device you have to make a choice "how am I going to do this, screen or trackpad?"
    That is why they re-did the original incoming call screen (stupid, but they did).

    Posted via CB10
    05-02-15 09:50 AM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    Using BlackBerry's own logic the classic would be considered a problem(confusing). It gives the user an additional "thought point" I think they called it. Every time you pick up the device you have to make a choice "how am I going to do this, screen or trackpad?"
    That is why they re-did the original incoming call screen (stupid, but they did).

    Posted via CB10
    Most folks are creatures of habit. Once they've identified the process that feels most efficient for them, they'll tend to stick to it and relegate those "habits" to their muscle memory "co-processor". A strategy that minimizes unnecessary distractions during linear logic "main-processor" times. Distractions that, even a partial second of main processor diversion, can impact overall productivity in disproportionately significant ways.

    Confusion happens when inconsistencies unexpectedly obsolete expected muscle memory routines. This forces main processor time sharing diversion in order to deal with the inconsistency. It must then add another routine to muscle memory logic, and then recall what it was doing before the disruption and get back to productive processes.

    Screen and trackpad are physical constants that can be counted on. BB's logic is not necessarily constant nor intuitive for some. Fine for others. Different folks...
    05-02-15 10:17 AM
  16. slagman5's Avatar
    Man, I TOTALLY agree. I missed the toolbelt and trackpad on the Q10 and thought it would be cool to have again on Classic. But honestly, I don't even use the trackpad 98% of the time and I'm now wishing it wasn't even there at all. They could have added that 'toolbelt' space to the size of the screen and I'd be a happy camper. Seems like just wasted space now.

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry, have to say this again, but I've gone from legacy devices to the Q10, and now the Classic, and as long as you know how to use the toolbelt in addition to BB10, it's definitely more efficient and quicker. Just because you don't know how to make use of it, doesn't mean that it's not useful.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    donemt likes this.
    05-02-15 11:11 AM
  17. slagman5's Avatar
    Funny, i don't even use the touch 90% of the time. That 10% is what the still maturing OS coerces me into using. Track negates the need for acres of screen estate. My Classic's oversized screen seems like wasted space, to me. Smaller screen could have made for a more compact device. My hand feels my Classic's size by day's end. Different folks...

    Diversity is a wondrous thing!! Unless you're a BB decision maker... lol
    I disagree with some of this. I love the combination of the trackpad and the screen. I've learned to make good use of both. I don't at all miss having a tiny little screen. I don't get why every one here is so focused on using one or the other, when in fact using both is best of both worlds...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    05-02-15 11:13 AM
  18. coffeeaddict305's Avatar
    I had the Curve 8320, Bold 9780 and 9900. Then got the Z10 upon its release, used it for 18 months. Then got the Q10. Altho I liked the PKB better, the Q10 was a letdown for me as I was expecting more of a Bold 9900 feel and display quality. Hated its keyboard and amoled screen. When the Classic came out, I bought it and am now quite satisfied. Not confusing at all.

    Posted via Classic
    A little harsh on the Q10. The biggest letdown from Classic is the fast battery drain. I already did anything I could possibly imagine to save the battery life before depleting at noon. The PKB of course is softer for Classic then Q10, no doubt one of the best. But I'm switching from Classic to Q10 just cause of battery life. Classic can't handle syncing 6 emails, 1fb acc, etc. But the Q10 beats it like nothing.. kinda makes me sad abt my Classic. Trackpad is alright for me, no confusion having Classic as my first BlackBerry w toolbelt.

    Via  the slick BlackBerry Q10 bow down to the power of Q 
    05-02-15 06:47 PM
  19. mad_mdx's Avatar
    A little harsh on the Q10. The biggest letdown from Classic is the fast battery drain. I already did anything I could possibly imagine to save the battery life before depleting at noon. The PKB of course is softer for Classic then Q10, no doubt one of the best. But I'm switching from Classic to Q10 just cause of battery life. Classic can't handle syncing 6 emails, 1fb acc, etc. But the Q10 beats it like nothing.. kinda makes me sad abt my Classic. Trackpad is alright for me, no confusion having Classic as my first BlackBerry w toolbelt.

    Via  the slick BlackBerry Q10 bow down to the power of Q 
    Having lots of emails doesn't make your battery life worse.
    The classic has to have a better battery life than the classic normally. Why don't you try an OS reload without restoring any data from the Q10 ? I bet you will see a huge improvement
    05-02-15 07:27 PM
  20. 1TIME's Avatar
    "Simplicity is the highest form of sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

    That's why in a world of instant gratification technical gadgetry with features designed less for function and more for form or for show, the 9900 remains timeless.
    05-02-15 07:32 PM
  21. ocriblecoblis's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree. I am SO HAPPY to have the toolbelt back, and feel that it has been quite well integrated into BlackBerry 10.3.1, so that anyone coming directly from BBOS will find the way it works quite familiar.

    I came to the Classic from the Q10, and I prefer the Classic. With the tool belt restored, I can once again do many things without having to look at the screen and touch it in precisely the right place using just the right gesture.

    My wife has a Z30, and while I absolutely love it, the Classic fits the way I work much better. Kudos to BlackBerry for offering such a range of desirable options. I'm looking forward to the slider and hope it has a tool belt too!

    Posted via CB10
    idssteve likes this.
    05-02-15 08:21 PM
  22. idssteve's Avatar
    I disagree with some of this. I love the combination of the trackpad and the screen. I've learned to make good use of both. I don't at all miss having a tiny little screen. I don't get why every one here is so focused on using one or the other, when in fact using both is best of both worlds...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    Options are always win-win. I'm nearsighted and simply hold smaller screens closer. "Old Arther" in knuckles prefers compactness by day's end. Just my preferences. LOVE my Classic but if/when they ever make a Q10/9900 sized ToolBelt device, i'll jump on it. Your mileage might vary...
    slagman5 likes this.
    05-02-15 09:34 PM
  23. coffeeaddict305's Avatar
    Having lots of emails doesn't make your battery life worse.
    The classic has to have a better battery life than the classic normally. Why don't you try an OS reload without restoring any data from the Q10 ? I bet you will see a huge improvement
    I setup my Classic as new no restoring data from my Q10. It gets worse when I load cobalts google play store. I disabled "run in background for unnecessary apps" and still Classic's batt life sucks. Sorry this isn't the thread to talk abt batt life, I'm just curious why. Everything works well tho. So I stick to Q10.

    Via  the slick BlackBerry Q10 bow down to the power of Q 
    05-02-15 10:16 PM
  24. idssteve's Avatar
    A little harsh on the Q10. The biggest letdown from Classic is the fast battery drain. I already did anything I could possibly imagine to save the battery life before depleting at noon. The PKB of course is softer for Classic then Q10, no doubt one of the best. But I'm switching from Classic to Q10 just cause of battery life. Classic can't handle syncing 6 emails, 1fb acc, etc. But the Q10 beats it like nothing.. kinda makes me sad abt my Classic. Trackpad is alright for me, no confusion having Classic as my first BlackBerry w toolbelt.

    Via  the slick BlackBerry Q10 bow down to the power of Q 
    Problem with your particular Classic. Setting, signal, App, OS ??? My crew has 22 Classics under heavy use in low signal industrial conditions. They squeeze 12 hrs out of them. Pretty dicey by day's end and NO one despises the fixed battery nonsense more than myself, but... dead by noon? You gotta problem with your device. I'd try to correct it, if it were me. FWIW.
    05-02-15 10:45 PM
  25. coffeeaddict305's Avatar
    Problem with your particular Classic. Setting, signal, App, OS ??? My crew has 22 Classics under heavy use in low signal industrial conditions. They squeeze 12 hrs out of them. Pretty dicey by day's end and NO one despises the fixed battery nonsense more than myself, but... dead by noon? You gotta problem with your device. I'd try to correct it, if it were me. FWIW.
    Oh yes..i really love the device and toolbelt is very nifty! I gotta return it since warranty's still valid.

    Via  the slick BlackBerry Q10 bow down to the power of Q 
    idssteve likes this.
    05-02-15 11:01 PM
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